CCPS-VIR cool down lap ruled legal for scoring

[E-3]

I think the subject title says it all.
I have now heard it all! SCCA officials have ruled that 22 CCPS competitors were expected to ignore the SCCA flagging rules (GCR section 6.11. 6.11.1.1. 6.11.2 6.11.2.H) AND BLOW THE CHECKER FLAG! Then SCCA Officials expected the competitors to know that they were still being scored even though the checker had already been displayed to the field ON THE TRACK. THEY SCORED THE RACE ON HOW YOU ENTERED IMPOUND!! Yes, you heard me right! SCCA SCORED the COOL DOWN LAP!! The SCCA officials told me that they don't see anything wrong with double checkering the race! I am extremely disappointed in the ruling. If you were affected, I urge you to file a protest or appeal or what ever you need to do. If nothing else tell SCCA that you will not feel safe racing in SCCA if the flags are suppose to be intentionally ignored. Christ, the competitors are busy enough with out having to decide if the checker is really the end of the race. THIS IS NUTS. ALL flags must always be obeyed!! Rule 6.11.1 even states this.

" they shall be obeyed immediately and without question." GCR page 56

How can you KNOW to blow the flag if you don't question it?????
I am not happy
Estus White

[JeffYoung]

That's just crazy and in my view shows the lack of respect teh series gets from SCCA. It was last race on Sunday right, when everyone wanted to go home?

[Ron Earp]

But why would they do such a thing? Did they make a mistake?

[Knestis]

???

K

[dickita15]

I think the subject title says it all.
I have now heard it all! SCCA officials have ruled that 22 CCPS competitors were expected to ignore the SCCA flagging rules (GCR section 6.11. 6.11.1.1. 6.11.2 6.11.2.H) AND BLOW THE CHECKER FLAG! Then SCCA Officials expected the competitors to know that they were still being scored even though the checker had already been displayed to the field ON THE TRACK. THEY SCORED THE RACE ON HOW YOU ENTERED IMPOUND!! Yes, you heard me right! SCCA SCORED the COOL DOWN LAP!! The SCCA officials told me that they don't see anything wrong with double checkering the race! I am extremely disappointed in the ruling. If you were affected, I urge you to file a protest or appeal or what ever you need to do. If nothing else tell SCCA that you will not feel safe racing in SCCA if the flags are suppose to be intentionally ignored. Christ, the competitors are busy enough with out having to decide if the checker is really the end of the race. THIS IS NUTS. ALL flags must always be obeyed!! Rule 6.11.1 even states this.

" they shall be obeyed immediately and without question." GCR page 56

How can you KNOW to blow the flag if you don't question it?????
I am not happy
Estus White

It does sound very wrong from why you are describing but can you be a little more specific on who made such a decision. Was it the chief steward? Did it go to the SOM as a protest or appeal?

[dickita15]

That's just crazy and in my view shows the lack of respect teh series gets from SCCA. It was last race on Sunday right, when everyone wanted to go home?

No offence but I do not get it when people make comments like that. SCCA is 65000 members most of whom have never even heard of this series. What is that supposed to mean?

[Ron Earp]

No offence but I do not get it when people make comments like that. SCCA is 65000 members most of whom have never even heard of this series. What is that supposed to mean?

I'm pretty sure he means the local Southeast SCCA members and decision makers, not SCCA nationwide. Many of the SE racers have long felt the Carolina Cup series sort of gets the short end of the stick when it comes to scheduling on the weekends.

I haven't ever run it competitively so I don't really know. I do know one of the reasons I don't run it occasionally for seat time is the run group placement. Naturally, as a SARRC fan I would not want to trade my SARRC run group placement for Carolina Cup.

[JeffYoung]

No offense taken Dick, I was imprecise with my words. Ron's explanation is dead on as to what I meant.

CCPS gets the short end of the stick from each region it runs in. It's always the last run group. It's always the first to have things like the above happen.

Look, NCR is a GREAT region. The best run I've seen, but it alwys seems like CCPS has stuff like that happening to them which really hurts would could be a fantastic series.

[dickita15]

Thanks for the clarification. So the series gets poor support from the two or three people who set schedules and such for the region. I hate to be a ass but I get pretty tired of threads that say SCCA sucks because there is a disagreement with one steward or region official.

[seckerich]

No offense taken Dick, I was imprecise with my words. Ron's explanation is dead on as to what I meant.

CCPS gets the short end of the stick from each region it runs in. It's always the last run group. It's always the first to have things like the above happen.

Look, NCR is a GREAT region. The best run I've seen, but it alwys seems like CCPS has stuff like that happening to them which really hurts would could be a fantastic series.

I would hope this was protested at the track and will go to appeals. It is idiotic to believe a race was not considered over after the checkered was displayed. Real black eye for the region and anyone involved. T&S should easily be able to score this from the AMB data. Any of us could do it from Mylaps.:rolleyes:

You need to remember Jeff and Ron that CCPS placement on the schedule is dictated by SARRC rules that require "other" races be scheduled AFTER SARRC. Sucks, but it is a SARRC weekend.

[Ron Earp]

You need to remember Jeff and Ron that CCPS placement on the schedule is dictated by SARRC rules that require "other" races be scheduled AFTER SARRC. Sucks, but it is a SARRC weekend.

Hey, I'm ok with it since I'm a SARRC fan. I think a fair number of folks don't know those rules existed though, I didn't.

I certainly think the rules could be modified to accommodate another series though. That is to say, we're a club by members for members so if members are interested in changing those scheduling rules it should be possible.

Now, put my selfish hat on - I like it the way it is now. I like the SARRC races first in the schedule since that is the series I'm interested in racing. But I can see a lot of Carolina Cup fans would like it reversed and I respect that.

Pretty screwed up on the scoring of this race though. I just can't see how something like that could be allowed to happen. Checker is out, race over, period.

[GKR_17]

Without all of the details I can't say for sure, but it would seem clear that the last scored lap should determine the finishing order per the GCR. That said, I hope you filed protest on time. From my experience the officials could burn the GCR and pick any winner they want and if the protest isn't filed within 30 minutes no one will ever review the decision again.

[Hotshoe]

Pretty screwed up on the scoring of this race though. I just can't see how something like that could be allowed to happen. Checker is out, race over, period.

Ron,

......... If I had not witnessed this myself I would not have believed it. The flag man made a mistake and flagged the second place car as the leader. So, according to the GCR, the race is not over until the leader takes the checkered flag.

........ Now, in my opinion, this creates an unsafe condition on track. Some drivers ( mostly without communication with the pits ) have slowed and are supposedly on their cool down lap, while a few drivers are still at speed because the flag man pulled the checkered flag momentarily causing more confusion. So, now we have cars on two different agendas on course. The best thing they could have done ( instead of nothing ) would have been to throw a full course caution.

........ I know this scenario does not exist in the rule book. But after talking to a driver that was on track at the time, I bet it was quite strange. He was passed on track, at speed, by a car in his class, after he ( but not the other guy ) had taken the checkered flag. ....... Cause for concern YES !!! Why ???? because of the safety reasons. If the driver I talked to had not had the experience to see that the car catching him had not slowed, it could have had catastrophic results.

... This situation should have been avoided. Quickly and responsibly. But it was not and is surely a "Black Eye" for the club.......

.... I hope it gets resolved amicably

[JeffYoung]

Ok, so it was a flagging error....that's easier to swallow.

[Gary Gentry]

If I might........

First, the Carolina Cup Pro Series (CCPS) is a great series. It's a "regional" series. And, historically speaking, we do get the short end of the stick regarding scheduling (always running as the last group)....I wish that could change just every once and again but so be it. This issue is not the fault of the CCPS or its Administrators!

Second, the NC Region of SCCA, of which I am a part, is a great region with some/many really great folks being involved with it.

Third, there is a large number of very upset folks out there right now over what happened last weekend at VIR.

Fourth, I herein acknowledge that the workers are volunteers.......I Love Em' and know that they are invaluable if we want to race at all.

Let me relate what I think happened and, yes, there were mistakes made that had finish position implication for many but that also had significant safety-related issues for many as well.

As I was approaching the finsih line nearing the end of the 45 minute timed race, I was displayed the checkered flag while I was IT-7 class leader (not the overall leader). The overtall leader was some 20+ cars behind me. I did what I usually do after receiving the checkered flag, as did the cars that I could see behind me, and that was to slow to a safe "cool-down" lap speed and proceed cautiously to the pits in accordance with various related sections of the GCR. Not since the very, very early part of the race had my car been in any other than first IT-7 position.

Upon coming out of T17 and making the slow turn onto Pit Road, one or more cars came up behind me at or near race speed and continued along the front straight where the checkered flag was still/again/? being displayed.

Upon arrival at the point where we usually pit-out to go to impound, we were atypically directed to the end of pit road and around the far end of the pit wall. Apparently, this was because we were being directed across the timing line where many of the cars (unbeknownst to them.......and it was never mentioned subsequently at impound) for the intentional scoring of their "last lap".......this after a full cool-down lap and having traversed pit road at slow speed!

As it turns out, the checkered flag was displayed early to me, and to some other portion of the field. We are not talking a "bit" early as might be the case when an overall leader is approaching the finish line on their last lap while over-taking lapped traffic; we are talking about the flag being displayed some 22 cars early!

At impound, it was announced by the Chief Steward that the flag had been thrown early and that the scoring of the race was to revert back to the previous lap where the proper position of all cars was known. This would appear to be a most reasonable response/action given the situation and circumstance.

The mess began when the Starter threw the flag early....this is unfortunate but, should be considered a "forgivable" offence (in my opinion) by anyone who has ever made an honest mistake.

But here is where the "unforgiveable" begins to occurr. First, there were, for whatever reason and as my in-car video clearly shows, cars on the track that were apparently at race speed while others had slowed. I cannot confirm this myself, but it was stated by someone that the checkered flag may have been thrown, then retracted, then re-displayed. Whatever happened, it was not a safe condition. Second, being intentionally directed down pit road to cross the timing line to end the scoring of the race is a blunder of significant magnitude.....and no driver that I know was aware that was happening... most drivers were just following the directions of the workers/officials.

Sadly, it was suggested to me by an official (I did/do not know them.....I wish I had been more attentive to detail at impound), that perhaps I should have known that I was not on my last lap, or in this case that my total time had not yet elapsed as though suggesting that I should have ignored the Checkered Flag and continued to race. Huh? Lets see.....how many different parts of the GCR would that violate! I just obey the rules and race until it's over.

I believe that a protest was filed by a SM driver (not that it makes any difference whatsoever who filed the protest because they are entitled to file a protest just as much as anyone else is) who would gain a position or two because of the confusion, if upheld. I am not privy to the specific content of the protest but it likely has to do with the part of the GCR pertaining to "Winners" and Eary Checkered Flag". The protest was apparently upheld at the track and it was determined by the SOM, erroneously in my opinion, that the scoring was just fine as though nothing out of the ordinary had happened. Remember,nad this is speculation based on experience, that the CCPS was run as the last race of the day.....there may have been excessive "hurry" to "just do something" (assumed only because of the unfair and enreasonable Official Results) and, many of the workers, drivers, etc. had already left the track. I left quite late and had still heard nothing of the protest. Later on last week, I heard rumblings of the Provisional results being over-turned in lieu of the FUBAR finishing order and, yesterday, received E-Mail notification of that SOM decision. Included in those Official Results was notification that my car had not won the race....

So, and in factual recapitualtion:

1) Checkered Flag thrown way too early and possible inconsitently to the field;
2) Cars allowed to continue racing when others had been ordered to stop racing by virtue of having been displayed the checkered flag;
3) Cars being scored on pit road after a cool-down lap as though evertything was A-OK;
4) A reasonable decision made by the Chief Steward being over-turned by the SOM (for whatever reason);

In apparent and specualtive recapitulation:

5) A disregard for many things GCR;
6) An SOM who just didn't/doesn't "get it"

As I suggested earlier, an honest mistake is one to be ultimately forgiven. And I'll even go so far as to say that late on Sunday afternoon, when everyone has just about had enough racing and is ready to go home, is somewhat understandable (most of us have been "there"). But to ignore all reason, when errors were made that affected not only the final results in a significant way, but also affected the safety aspect of the race as a whole, would not, IMHO, be forgiveable. There are numerous protests being drafted by more than a few drivers/entrants. And numerous appeal(s) are sure follow if need be. My true hope is that the SCCA, local and/or National, will see this for what it is and do the right, reasonable thing without any strained or tortured interpretation as to actual events and circumstances.

Time will tell.....hopefully to a larger extent than it did during the race!

[Gary Gentry]

Regarding any protests beyond the one made at the track that formed the basis for the subsequent scoring "strangeness", none or little of this was publicly/officially known until this weekend when the "Official" results were E-Mailed to the competitors. I have been told that the "protest clock" does not start until the Official Results have been made public and delivered to the competeitors via US Mail. Any initial protest would be against the Official Results. Hopefully, the powers that be can suck thier chests back in and entertain a well-founded protest.

[JeffYoung]

Gary, thanks for that. Your first bit of your first post sums up my thoughts on this: NCR is great, CCPS is great, CCPS gets short shrift sometimes, which is part of life (although I think with a little help that series could really prosper).

This doesn't look like anything other than a mess that could have happend with the SARRC, and not CCPS specific (when I read the first post I wondered if they were trying to get the race done early, doesn't sound that way).

In any event, I hope this gets sorted. NCR region runs a great race weekend, this is VERY rare for them.

[Knestis]

Wow. Good question: How does one file a protest within the required time when the action being protested happens days(?) after the event is over...?

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

I am not sure why it isn't as simple as this:

We threw the flag early. We blew it. We are sorry for creating an unsafe condition on course and we are glad it did not result in any injuries.

The race will be scored from the timing sheets of the last lap order prior to the first checkered being waived (ie: the last official order of cars before some thought the race was over). Example: Leader was on lap 18 when non-leader got checkered. Finish is standings from lap 17. (or whatever is accurate)

[dickita15]

Thanks for the facts. It certainly is an interesting case of anything can happen.
Starter goofed it happens.
Cars were run down pit lane to timing line, no big deal, they are just gathering data. Really did not mean much.
Sound like the Chief Steward made the right call in impound.
It sounds like we will be reading about the SOM in Fastrack.
As to the unsafe cool off lap you have to be on your toes. Someone could not see a checker in any race. Back when I was flagging a lot I saw a lot of dumb incidents on cool off laps. I would never put down the blue flag on the cool off lap because way too often I had someone come screaming down on someone not paying attention.
The only thing I can think of that the official could have done when they realized the situation if they felt it was unsafe is a black flag all stations.

[Ron Earp]

Thanks for that info Rick and Gary. It does indeed sound like a simple goof that could happen in any race.

Ron

[Gary Gentry]

I am not sure why it isn't as simple as this:

We threw the flag early. We blew it. We are sorry for creating an unsafe condition on course and we are glad it did not result in any injuries.

The race will be scored from the timing sheets of the last lap order prior to the first checkered being waived (ie: the last official order of cars before some thought the race was over). Example: Leader was on lap 18 when non-leader got checkered. Finish is standings from lap 17. (or whatever is accurate)


Bingo.......we have a winner!

[Hotshoe]

I am not sure why it isn't as simple as this:

We threw the flag early. We blew it. We are sorry for creating an unsafe condition on course and we are glad it did not result in any injuries.

The race will be scored from the timing sheets of the last lap order prior to the first checkered being waived (ie: the last official order of cars before some thought the race was over). Example: Leader was on lap 18 when non-leader got checkered. Finish is standings from lap 17. (or whatever is accurate)


Gary,

.... And I second it..........

..... Can Andy take the place of this man?

[Gary Gentry]

Gary,

.... And I second it..........

..... Can Andy take the place of this man?

Heh heh....I dunno...ya know, I don't personally know this particular SOM. While his decision, in consideration of what fact was and/or should have been known at the time and in consideration of what later came to be generally known as fact, is most strange and unreasonable (my firm opinion....again in light of the Official Results). I am hopeful that the he is man enough to entertain, and rule properly upon, all of the protests that are surely coming his way......I'll withhold my final judgement until a bit later. My respect, at this time, is still quite salvageable provided the right thing is done and the proper conclusions are reached. If that is not to be the case for some technical, personal, political, or unknown reason, then, well........not so much.

If it walks and quacks like a duck, and leaves little duck droppings behind on the sidewalk, it might very well be a duck even though someone might wish and hope it were some other critter. Treat the thing as it is, rule appropriately/fairly, and move on.....

[cooleyjb]

I said this over on another forum but I'll say it again here.

This was not the only flag issue of the weekend.

SARRC open wheel race overall leader didn't get the checker flag first. 2 lapped cars did and then I did while running 2nd overall. Nothing bad happend just the overall leader ran an extra lap. During our qualifying a FV put a 2-3 foot wide oil slick down from the end of the back straight through turn 4. Noone in any of the corners/starter stand noticed it. No debris flag. This strip as everyone running after it saw was huge and went right under the starter stand. I pulled in and told the pit marshalls who seemed thoroughly confused that there was that much oil on track. We had one major crash the coincided with the oil right at pit entrance that eventually caused the session ot be ended although pretty much everyone had come in due to the oil. Noone ever mentioned seeing a debris flag.

Not the best showing by F&C in my opinion. I appreciate what they do but there were some pretty fundamental things that were screwed up.

[Flyinglizard]

Maybe the GCR should state the once the checker flag is out, it can not be retracted. Assistant starter responsiblity should include this rule, along with keeping track of the leader. Mistakes can be made. The Starter should have enough help to know the leader.
IMHO. MM

[tac911t]

Not the best showing by F&C in my opinion. I appreciate what they do but there were some pretty fundamental things that were screwed up.

Being a flagger and a driver. "Starters" work the Start/Finish stand. They are a seperate speciality from F&C (GCR Sec 5.8). Not saying that F&C do not make mistakes, but I do want to be clear on the source of the mistake.

[cooleyjb]

Being a flagger and a driver. "Starters" work the Start/Finish stand. They are a seperate speciality from F&C (GCR Sec 5.8). Not saying that F&C do not make mistakes, but I do want to be clear on the source of the mistake.

Sorry, my fault for the lack of distinction.

[GKR_17]

Wow. Good question: How does one file a protest within the required time when the action being protested happens days(?) after the event is over...?

K

If the officials will admit they didn't have official results at the track a 'late' protest will probably be accepted. Any ruling by the SOM at the track should open the door to an appeal, though even reasonalbe appeals often seemed to be tossed if there is no new evidence.

We had and ECR at Sebring a few years ago that only ran about 20 of the scheduled 90 minutes (stopped for lightening and late day finish). The officials all went into hiding, and no results could be found - we went home. Several weeks later rediculous results were posted on the web and the head SOM denies our protest because it's too late (no appeal allowed for same reason). That same steward was found backdating paperwork in a recent COA ruling. I still think of that guy as a friend, but that sure seems to look bad for those running the show.

[GKR_17]

I just got a copy of the announcement from NCR region, and I must say well done! They've owned up to the mistake and are trying to do everything possible to make it right. I hope other regions look to this as an example.

[Gary Gentry]

I just got a copy of the announcement from NCR region, and I must say well done! They've owned up to the mistake and are trying to do everything possible to make it right. I hope other regions look to this as an example.


Let there be no doubt, the NC Region (and the people that comprise it) is top-notch. Some of those people are the best in the country at what they do as volunteers. I am sure there is and has been much discussion and review taking place between officials, specialties, etc.. As I have stated on this subject in this forum, anyone/everyone makes a mistake now and again. Far be it from me to call out the color of the kettle or point fingers or cast blame. I, personally, am waaay beyond any initial error and look only toward a fair result.

It has been suggested to me, outside of this forum, that there may be little or no basis for a protest/appeal. Let me state as succinctly as I am able, what might/should be considered such a basis.

A car competes in an entire race in the 1st overall in-class position and is ultimately shown in the Official Results (released approx. 1 week later) as having finished in 2nd in-class position and with that or similar scenario having been applied not only to one class but to multiple classes. Should that form the basis of a well-founded protest/appeal? Should such a protest/appeal be entertained/accepted by race and/or national officials?

[JeffYoung]

Totally agree. CCR, SCR and Buccaneer are good folks, but NCR is top, top notch. Glad they fixed this.

[Gary Gentry]

Totally agree. CCR, SCR and Buccaneer are good folks, but NCR is top, top notch. Glad they fixed this.

Hey Jeff,

I have not, as an "involved competitor" or as of this time, received any notification that any changes have been made to the erroneous Official results. I am, however, optimistic.

[RacerBill]

Sorry, my fault for the lack of distinction.


Being a flagger and a driver. "Starters" work the Start/Finish stand. They are a seperate speciality from F&C (GCR Sec 5.8). Not saying that F&C do not make mistakes, but I do want to be clear on the source of the mistake.


Pardon the thread hijack, but........while it is true that there are seperate specilties for F&C and Starter, once the starter's duties at the start of a race are done, and until all the cars are off the track at the end of a race, the Starters stand becomes a flag station. We are equiped with all the same flags as a normal flag station, we are on the same network (at least at Mid-Ohio) as the flag stations, we respond to course checks just as a flag station. Starters don't just start a race. They should be and generally are trained in the meaning and usage of all the flags. The two specialties just have a few different responsibilities.

Sounds like everything got worked out, which is the best we all hoped for.

[Hotshoe]

. Glad they fixed this.




Sounds like everything got worked out.

Hey Fellas,


...... Care to share with us what got "fixed" or "worked out" . As far as we know things are still the same........

....... Just thought I would ask......

[seckerich]

We all need to remember that the region is not the one responsible for this screwup. They are assigned stewards for their races. The CCPS steward made the right call and was overturned. From conversations I have had today with officials I trust it looks like the right thing will be done. At the time of the ruling by the SOM they did not have a complete picture of all the events involved. Lets give them a chance now to fix this mess.

[happyjap]

Sure hate to see all the attempts to make this a conspiracy against any series, organization or person. I was at the Comp. Board meeting when this schedule was established and no one there had a negative attitude about CCPS. There was, however, a lot of manipulation of the day's schedule layed out in 5 minute increments to allow for rules, back to back classes and the general comfort of all competitors – you might not imagine how complicated that is. I thought it was all simple until I became a Board member and sat in on these meetings. You will never know how dedicated these people are and how little room there is for a conspiracy. These people worked extremely hard to fit 4 races into one weekend and I left that meeting with the feeling that there would be no way you could schedule 4 races in a 2 day weekend without having some kind of conflict to my race program. The result is that I raced what I was comfortable with, didn't race the others and didn't complain. I don't think any conspiracy caused this race to be last and I don't think CCPS is always last.


This problem was caused by a simple administration error, caused by, again the most devoted and hard working volunteers you can find. An error, not a conspiracy. I, as a racer, am not bothered by a simple error like this at all. If I didn't make any errors I would probably win some races, but I do make errors. This is not a pro series – if you want error free administration and no volunteer help you should go pro racing. Very little that happens at these races, if no one gets hurt, effects life as we know it. This is for fun.


The race steward made an announcement in impound after the race that revealed the error and his resolution. His decision made since to me and I think most others, because no one reacted negatively at the time. After that is when things went wrong. A protest was filed by a competitor that caused review of the GCR rules that apply and the Stewards decision was changed. That change is what made this problem. No other circumstances apply. No conspiracy was in play. If you want to change the future results of races like this, its the GCR that may need to be changed, or more reasonable interpretations of that document. This decision certainly effects the safety of all concerned for future races. If the Steward said the things he's quoted as saying, the safe standards of racing pounded into us as drivers for so many years is in question. I hope that steward thinks about his decision and the many ways the GCR can be interpreted.

[JohnRW]

Just want to clarify something here -

The decision on the protest, that was filed after the Chief Steward's decision, came from the "Stewards of the Meet" (SOM), not a "Steward of the Meet". Plural, not singular. The SOM's are a group of Stewards...an actual committee...who are not involved in any of the "operational" things going on all weekend...they're just there to serve as an "impartial" court.

While the SOMs discuss the facts, listen to competitors / officials and consult the GCR, they shouldn't make their decision outside of the rules in the GCR. They may come to a decision about "gray" areas, but if there is any hard language in the GCR, they're kinda sorta obligated to follow those rules. If a protestee is still unhappy with a decision of the SOM's, they can appeal to the national Court of Appeals (COA)...that's all that really fun stuff to read in Fastrack every month.

Lots of times, a SOM committee will come to a decision, but actually tell someone involved in a protest that they should file an appeal to the national COA, because the SOM's feel that there IS a legitimate reason to appeal. I've been an SOM where the committee came to decision "X", but told the competitor that they REALLY SHOULD APPEAL to the national COA, because "Y" might really be the better answer, based on a broader picture.

Confused about the issues and protests at VIR ("who" did "what" to "who", and "when ?), but it sounds like some of you guys were encouraged to protest. In my mind, that's a pretty cool thing.

[seckerich]

When there is more than one option that can be backed by the GCR what is the best choice? Split hairs and go with the wrong but justifiable decision and urge an appeal, or make the right decision in the first place and let that be appealed? Seems pretty simple now doesn't it? There is a higher level of transparency needed for this particular race because it was part of a money paying series. Not hanging the SOM for this just yet.:o

And I feel your pain on the race schedule planning, damn what an eye opening experience my first time as race chair. A whole new level of respect for those that volunteer for this madness.

[JeffYoung]

Well, I am most certainly guilty of jumping the gun here, and my apologies on that.

If I wasn't clear in later posts, NCR is the best.

In any event, my initial reacion was wrong, and I'll leave it up as a reminder not do that again.

Sorry Rex.

Jeff


Sure hate to see all the attempts to make this a conspiracy against any series, organization or person. I was at the Comp. Board meeting when this schedule was established and no one there had a negative attitude about CCPS. There was, however, a lot of manipulation of the day's schedule layed out in 5 minute increments to allow for rules, back to back classes and the general comfort of all competitors – you might not imagine how complicated that is. I thought it was all simple until I became a Board member and sat in on these meetings. You will never know how dedicated these people are and how little room there is for a conspiracy. These people worked extremely hard to fit 4 races into one weekend and I left that meeting with the feeling that there would be no way you could schedule 4 races in a 2 day weekend without having some kind of conflict to my race program. The result is that I raced what I was comfortable with, didn't race the others and didn't complain. I don't think any conspiracy caused this race to be last and I don't think CCPS is always last.


This problem was caused by a simple administration error, caused by, again the most devoted and hard working volunteers you can find. An error, not a conspiracy. I, as a racer, am not bothered by a simple error like this at all. If I didn't make any errors I would probably win some races, but I do make errors. This is not a pro series – if you want error free administration and no volunteer help you should go pro racing. Very little that happens at these races, if no one gets hurt, effects life as we know it. This is for fun.


The race steward made an announcement in impound after the race that revealed the error and his resolution. His decision made since to me and I think most others, because no one reacted negatively at the time. After that is when things went wrong. A protest was filed by a competitor that caused review of the GCR rules that apply and the Stewards decision was changed. That change is what made this problem. No other circumstances apply. No conspiracy was in play. If you want to change the future results of races like this, its the GCR that may need to be changed, or more reasonable interpretations of that document. This decision certainly effects the safety of all concerned for future races. If the Steward said the things he's quoted as saying, the safe standards of racing pounded into us as drivers for so many years is in question. I hope that steward thinks about his decision and the many ways the GCR can be interpreted.