Steering Column

[dick elliott]

How much of the steering collum / turn signal can be removed to install a steering wheel quick release? Thanks.

[Scott Nutter]

I guess I would ask why do you need to remove any of it?

[dick elliott]

Because there's not room for the turn signal cam after you weld the quick release hub to the shaft.

[Speed Raycer]

So where does the GCR say that you can remove anything to install the QR?:D

[JoshS]

So where does the GCR say that you can remove anything to install the QR?:D
These days, why does anyone use weld-on QRs anyway?

But yeah, I don't think you can legally remove any of it.

[Gibson]

These days, why does anyone use weld-on QRs anyway?

Safer and cheaper.

[JLawton]

These days, why does anyone use weld-on QRs anyway?

Safer and cheaper.


I've heard of several situations where welds have broken on QRs.

But.......... in my car i've been running the stock wheel because they don't make a QR for it and i'm not convinced welding on the steering column is legal.......

[Gibson]

I don't know if it is legal or not, haven't studied it yet as I will probably go with the stock wheel at first, I was just answering the question "why weld?"

A good weld is stronger than bolts, and cheaper and easier than buying or fabbing adapter plates.

[Greg Amy]

Safer and cheaper....A good weld is stronger than bolts...
You're wrong in both regards, in context. You're arguably "right" that it's cheaper. Though most QRs cost about $50, so I'm not sure how much money you'd save versus time and risk.


I've heard of several situations where welds have broken on QRs.
I (as a tech inspector) have personally seen where the shaft broke as a result of a weld-on QR. Steering shafts are made of tempered steel, and by welding on them you are weakening them. Further, the one that I saw failed along the threads where the initial wheel was bolted on, due to forces in that area that it was never designed to handle (those threads are to keep a wheel from moving longitudinally along the shaft, not to resist bending loads. May as well have cut a notch in the shaft and labeled it "break here").

And arguing that a weld is strong than a bolt is...can I call it "ignorant" in the true sense of the word without unintended insult? The "forces" that a steering wheel are subjected to have nothing at all to do with bolting versus welding, as the bolts are only there to keep the wheels from sliding off the splines (which, by the way, you'd be bypassing. Which do you think is stronger in torsion: a questionable weld on a tempered shaft, or splines?)

But, to the rules question at hand.

You cannot remove or modify anything to install a steering wheel quick release. In point of fact, steering wheel quick releases aren't even explicitly allowed in the rules. However, "steering wheels can be replaced" thus the QR is technically a part of your replacement steering wheel.

Thus within the scope of the IT rules, replacement of parts do not allow modifications of other parts to install them. As such, the original sentence stands: nothing else can be removed or modified to install them.


i'm not convinced welding on the steering column is legal.......Neither am I, but we've gone through this argument before, and pretty much decided to let this sleeping dog lie...

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18582
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20198
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15677

[Gibson]

And arguing that a weld is strong than a bolt is...can I call it "ignorant" in the true sense of the word without unintended insult?

Absolutely. Not willing to concede the point without further investigation, but that implies obvious ignorance on my part, doesn't it? As long as we all remember than ignorance is fixable, I am cool with it.

I would put a little smiley deal here but I have hated those fucking things since I saw the first one in the sixties.

[JimLill]

But.......... in my car i've been running the stock wheel because they don't make a QR for it and i'm not convinced welding on the steering column is legal.......

A path that works on many cars is to start with

http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?N=0&Nr=AND(make:Saturn,model:SL1,year:1992,part:Steeri ng+Wheel+Installation+Kit,brand:Grant)&roicid=B1172613097W45e4a7e90676a&roikwd=Saturn+SL1+Steering%20Wheel%20Installation% 20Kit+Grant

adapt with:

http://shopping.rexmar.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=steerhubmomo

and use a

http://www.ltbmotorsports.com/ltbquicrelsp.html

[joeg]

Nice links Jim.

But stack those pieces together and the steering wheel may land up in your chest.

Probably the reason for the original question.

[JimLill]

Nice links Jim.

But stack those pieces together and the steering wheel may land up in your chest.

Probably the reason for the original question.

those pieces are pretty "short", and just use a low dish wheel.

[Gibson]

Okay, I took a closer look at our F Prod car today and Greg is right, I was ignorant. The welds I remembered were on an adapter, not the shaft.

[dick elliott]

Wow!!! An adapter bolted to another adapter which is bolted to another ect,ect,ect!!!!! I'd take a weld any day over that. And if they aren't legal, why are they allowed?

[JoshS]

And if they aren't legal, why are they allowed?
Not sure what that means. Things that are legal are allowed. Things that are not legal are not allowed.

It could be argued that you can weld something onto the end of the stock steering shaft. I don't see how anyone can argue that you can remove any of the stock shaft (which was the original question.)

[Xian]

Nice links Jim.

But stack those pieces together and the steering wheel may land up in your chest.

Probably the reason for the original question.

For my Honda, I used a Momo bolt-on adapter and then an LTB Quick Release. It adds about 6" to the shaft length but I'm using a low-dish wheel in place of the factory unit. The end result is a wheel maybe 3" closer to the driver. In my case this is good b/c I can actually move my seat back far enough to give some extra leg room. :)

Christian

[seckerich]

Have to disagree with Greg here. Steering shafts are not tempered really, they are case hardened for wear and the inner 95% is soft. RB 44-48 on a Mazda. A proper filler rod with a tig on the large diameter of the shaft is just as strong as any adapter. Control the heat and do not weld to the small threaded area. But then I might be ignorant as well.:026:

PS. If you have to ask on this forum how to weld it please take it to a professional so you don't end up holding a wheel with no car attached.

[Greg Amy]

But then I might be ignorant as well.:026:
Nah, I'll defer to you on that, as I'm only half-sure on the process. However, I am sure they're heat-treated in some way and that improper welding can affect that, and I am very confident that welding on parts to them is neither a good idea nor compliant to the rules (as I described above and in those other linked threads.)

But, it's not one of those "areas" that's worth getting all riled up about (unless you're a stickler for rules as we tend to be...) - GA

[JLawton]

A path that works on many cars is to start with

http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?N=0&Nr=AND(make:Saturn,model:SL1,year:1992,part:Steeri ng+Wheel+Installation+Kit,brand:Grant)&roicid=B1172613097W45e4a7e90676a&roikwd=Saturn+SL1+Steering%20Wheel%20Installation% 20Kit+Grant

adapt with:

http://shopping.rexmar.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=steerhubmomo

and use a

http://www.ltbmotorsports.com/ltbquicrelsp.html



I'm not sure whether the picture is generic or the SC was different than the SL (I don't think so). But my column has a unique spline with a notch in it.

[Chip42]

A path that works on many cars is to start with

http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?N=0&Nr=AND(make:Saturn,model:SL1,year:1992,part:Steeri ng+Wheel+Installation+Kit,brand:Grant)&roicid=B1172613097W45e4a7e90676a&roikwd=Saturn+SL1+Steering%20Wheel%20Installation% 20Kit+Grant

adapt with:

http://shopping.rexmar.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=steerhubmomo

and use a

http://www.ltbmotorsports.com/ltbquicrelsp.html

Personally, I'm not too hot on having 15 bolts in single shear (3+6+6) but we all have stories and documented proof of the successes and failures of both weld and bolt-on applications. whatever path you choose, do it right, use a professional if you aren't sure, and don't cut anything OFF of the stock shaft and you'll be safe AND legal.

and I agree with Christian - moving the wheel back is often desireable. (on our prod car the shaft is extended 7", the seat is back ~8", and the pedals are back ~3" from stock. makes for a great seating position.)

[dick elliott]

Go to your local dirt track and you will see 99% of the cars with weld'd on quick releases. Those guys beat the snot out of those cars and I have yet to see a shaft break. They put more stress on their car in one night that a SCCA car does in a life time.