First set of tires

[alexpq]

Hi,

I am just starting out racing this year in an ITB VW Rabbit GTI. The car came with a set of Hoosier R6's (205/55/ZR14), with not much left on them. I basically plan to use them for drivers school and maybe my first race. But, just to be prepared I am shopping for my first new set now in case I incur a problem.

I am not looking to be incredibly fast, and am looking for a tire that will have good longevity, and be a bit more budget friendly than the R6.

At first, I thought the Kumho V710 might be a good option, but then I saw that it preforms best with up to -1.5 degrees of camber. The car is currently set up with -3 degrees for the hoosier, and for just starting off, I am not looking to do many suspension adjustments.

Any advice for me?

thanks,
Alex

[JimLill]

If you're just starting out........ one thing to consider is what do you do if you have a wet track? A set of RA1 would work all around

[lateapex911]

Toyos seem to fill lots of needs well, but do nothing really well...which is ideal for a guy just getting his feet wet.

But, get used to alignment changes, LOL. I'm not sure what the Toyos like, but if it's different from the Hoosiers don't let that stand in your way...buddy up with somebody at the track, and they'll show you how to align things..it's really not all that hard. Just remember that toe can change when camber is changed on certain cars.

Welcome to the site and to IT racing! Where are you from?..we'll dispatch an IT.com VW expert to your first race...(kidding, but don't be shocked if you get some friendly help)
Scratch the question, you're from MI. Vaughan Scott probably knows who you should talk to in that neck of the woods.

[splats]

VictoRacers are good to start with, as is the Toyos. But what is even better are 'take-offs'. If you ask around, I'm sure you can find some older tires for free (or really cheap). As with ALL Newbies (me included), you will flat-spot your tires within your first couple of races. My mentor (who has been racing so long that they use to flat-tow with a horse & rope) :cavallo: (just kidding ED), told me NOT to put on ANY new tires during the first year. Did I listen? NO. Did I ruin good tires? YES. I still have a set of rock-hard tires that I put on if the car is having issues & I just need to make laps for my license.

[wcmcarlos]

What Mark says is true, there are guys on this forum who sell their old tires when they have too many heat cycles.
Please do not go to driver's school with only one set of worn out tires.
And take someone with you to change them, you do not have time to attend to tire problems at driver's school.
I was lucky to have someone with me to change a tire that went flat on the grid!
Carlos

[JeffYoung]

Exactly on all of the above. Take at least a couple of spare, mounted tires to school, a full set if possible.

I would without question start on Toyos. They wear like iron and are much harder to flat spot than Hos or Kumhos. I got over a season out of my first set, and believe me, it wasn't the tires that were holding me back at first -- it was dumbass behind the wheel.

Got to school on takeoffs, race a few times, then get a new set of Toyos and go from there.

Good luck and welcome!

[shwah]

I did my first few seasons on Toyos and would recommend it to anyone. They last. They cost less. They force you to really develop the car and driver to get fast. After I won a good race, I built a motor and tried Hoosiers.

[RacerBill]

1st set of tires I bought were Kumho's - net price for 4 tires was $25.00

2nd set was a set of Hankook's - price for 5, shipped to OH from NJ - $150.00

2rd set - Toyo RA1's - $100

Total price for tires - $275

There are some good deals out there. Just need to know where to look.

[Sandro]

I have been using a set of Victoracers for the last year and they have held up great, got them on sale from tirerack for $99 each.

Looks like tire racks prices are messed up:
205/55/14 Victoracer $148
205/55/14 V710 $128

[ITA_honda]

When I started doing track days with my ITA Honda, I got a set of cheap Avons. And I absolutly hated them with a passion. The tire was heavy as can be and when it wore out...there was no sign..:blink:

I then got a set of Kumho Ecsta V710's (205/50/15) and have had really good luck with them. Its a really good tire and I have been pleased with its performance.....:happy204:

But I was watching the 2008 Runoffs DVD and they mentioned in the SSB race that the V710's are 5lbs. heavier than the Hankook and Hoosiers.:shrug:

I might try a set of Hoosiers this year.

[tbelicke]

Where are some good places to look for 14" take offs? I have an ITB GTI that i bought in fall for HPDE this year.

[dj10]

"I am not looking to be incredibly fast,"

Just make sure you are incredibly safe.

[shwah]

I have a set of 14" Toyos with plenty of life on VW snowflakes that I would sell.

[splats]

Where are some good places to look for 14" take offs? I have an ITB GTI that i bought in fall for HPDE this year.
Check at the track 'Tire Dealers'. Most are happy if you take the old tires (less for them to load). Also, check with some of the front-runners about getting their take-offs. You may have to do some networking (begging), but you should be able to get some. There is NOTHING wrong with running different brands/sizes (205, 225, etc.) on the car at the same time. As long as they stay the same on the same axle. I've seen guys run Hoosiers on the front & Toyos on the rear to get the car to rotate.

[tbelicke]

RA1's? How much? I am local.

[mc-integra111]

Looks like everyone has you covered for advice. I used full tread RA1's when I started since they last longer and can be run at full tread in the dry (didn't need dedicated rain tires). Now that I am trying to compete I use V710's (I still use full tread RA1's in the rain but am hoping the W710 will be made in a 14" size soon).


At first, I thought the Kumho V710 might be a good option, but then I saw that it preforms best with up to -1.5 degrees of camber. The car is currently set up with -3 degrees for the hoosier, and for just starting off, I am not looking to do many suspension adjustments.

Depends on the car. I currently run -3 deg (even a touch more) in the front of my car and that works very well.

[shwah]

How about $200 with the wheels they are on?

Used them for 8 races. I estimate they have 1/2 or more life left. They were shaved when new, and should wear well.

fvgngn (at) sbcglobal (dot) net

setup notes - I need to check but I recall running 2.5-3.5 negative camber in the front, depending on the track layout.

[tbelicke]

Did you ever run an MK1?

[shwah]

No.

[joeg]

A Kumho is a much better choice than a Toyo--cheaper too.

You may also want to check out the Hankooks; maybe even cheaper.

Whatever you do, take decent tires to your driver's school; always plan for the worse and hope for the best.

After all is said and done, however, just remind yourself that there simply is nothing faster than a new Hoosier!

[Greg Amy]

A Kumho is a much better choice than a Toyo--cheaper too...just remind yourself that there simply is nothing faster than a new Hoosier!
We've pretty much decided to at least start on Toyos this year, and we're definitely not new to the game... ;) Why?

- Cheaper. Toyo RA-1s are on closeout, and my 225/50-15s are $155 each, shaved. Hoosiers are $220 each. That's a diff of over $200 per set.
- Last longer. Just a WAG, but Toyos will probably last 2-3 times what the Hoosiers will. That's cuts our tire bill in half again.
- Competition. I'm getting word that our local competition will be light this year.
- Competitiveness/"out there to have fun". I'm not convinced the car we're (re)building is going to be long-term competitive. So, we're running with the attitude this year of "we're out there to have fun".
- Lack of contingency. Last year several tire manufacturers offered contingency sponsorship; "word" is that's pretty much gone across the board.

Don't know if you've noticed (the media been fairly silent on it ;)), but the economy ain't too good right now, and a little frugality is in order. Given the choice between fewer races with faster tires that go away sooner, or more races with slower tires that last longer, I think the choice is obvious. I suspect if we choose to make the haul to the "big events" like IT Fest and ARRC we'll switch to the purple glue, but for the most part we'll choose to save some coin and enjoy the ride...

Besides, more track/seat time results in better lap times, far more so than less time and sticky tires...and, if we do well on Toyos we look like heroes... ;)

GA

[EBSNASCAR]

Where will you be racing this year? Did you buy a silver/gray ITB rabbit? If you are racing at Waterford Hills I can get you information you will need. Most guys run Hoosiers or Toyos. I ran both, Hoosiers are the way to go but Toyos will be fine for the first year.

[Hammer]

- Cheaper. Toyo RA-1s are on closeout, and my 225/50-15s are $155 each, shaved. Hoosiers are $220 each. That's a diff of over $200 per set.


Where are you buying the Toyos at that price

[Greg Amy]

Where are you buying the Toyos at that price
http://www.philstireservice.com Call and ask for Phil.

(Guess I need to get off my duff and order tires before they run out...)

[Chris P]

I have a set of 14" Toyos with plenty of life on VW snowflakes that I would sell.

Do you still have these and if so, would you consider shipping? Like the original poster, I'm a road race newb and just got an ITB prepped MK 2 Golf for Christmas. I got lots of spares parts but no wheels and the RA1s on it are showing signs of dry rot.

Thanks
Chris

[shwah]

The RA-1s are spoken for now. I do have a set of 14x6 wheels with no tires that need a home. They are the 5 spoke Imolas from the 97 Jetta GT. Shoot me a zip and I will see how nutty shipping will be.

[tom91ita]

first post here and you are asking for advice. that is good.

okay, this is how we do it here at IT.com. i have a used set of toyo RA-1's in the 205-55-14 range and i will give them to you on one condition. you have to do your darndest to attend and/or participate in the IT spectacular at Mid-Ohio.

folks have helped me on tires in the past and now i can pass on that same generosity.

you are from near detroit, right? i am in grand rapids.

i think a couple of tires are still on rims. if you would reimburse me for removing the tires from the rims that would be your only cost.

if you have free access to a tire machine with someone through waterford, i can probably bring the tires to you within a month. if we could work it out that we could pull my tires off the rims and mount a set of mine, we could both win. for this scenario, i will split my fuel costs with you. 150 miles one way at $2.00 per gallon and 50 mpg means $6 to you.

sound fair?

[joeg]

That's the spirit, Tom!!

[monsterbronco]

I don't mean to hijack this thread or anything but i had a tire question.

This will be my first year racing and i was looking at getting a set of Nitto-NT01s now through phil's the RA-1s are the same price. Any suggestions on which tire to run for the first year racing. Ive been doing track days on 710s the last few years but the budget isnt there to continue with those tires.

Thanks

Wes

[rsx858]

I have personaly never seen anyone run that tire in road racing but the toyo is a proven tire - if in doubt go with the toyo.

[gran racing]

tom, you get 50 mpg? Nice.

[tom91ita]

Alex,

i am sending you a PM or email. have not seen that you have posted back to this thread. not sure if you are watching it or not. i am serious about the tires.

Dave, the 50 mpg is a stretch for the winter time and 70 mph. but if the temps are near 50 and i drive 62, it should not be an issue.

best was ~67 mpg when making a specific run at 55-60 mph for a 200 mile run on the freeway. good mileage but very boring drive! difficult to commit to taking nearly an extra hour for something.

[lateapex911]

I don't know how you'll get all those tires on a freakin motorcycle Tom, but hats off to ya!

[RacerBill]

I don't know how you'll get all those tires on a freakin motorcycle Tom, but hats off to ya!

One on each arm, or both around his neck!!!!! :happy204: :blink: :happy204:

[924Guy]

Alex - drop me a line via PM or email... I hear you got Gonzalo's old car - great! I can (and in fact have been tasked to) help you ITB rookies help get ready for the Waterford school and season...

[EBSNASCAR]

Alex - drop me a line via PM or email... I hear you got Gonzalo's old car - great! I can (and in fact have been tasked to) help you ITB rookies help get ready for the Waterford school and season...

From personal experience you have some really good help there.
Vaughan let him know I have a few extra used Toyos if he is interested.

[quadzjr]

I am looking for some used tires for a 14" wheel. I just need to get the car setup and my father through driver school and first few races. I would hate for him to flat spot a new tire, like has been said on here before.

Does anybody have some in the SE they are willing to part from?

[splats]

I am looking for some used tires for a 14" wheel. I just need to get the car setup and my father through driver school and first few races. I would hate for him to flat spot a new tire, like has been said on here before.

Does anybody have some in the SE they are willing to part from?

Check at Sebring this weekend. If you don't find a cheap (or free) set, I'd be suprised. Check with some of the front-running 'rabbits'.

[frnkhous]

assuming I get to run enough to need tires and not just use up old junk ones I have. I'll be buying v710 because tire rack has 205/55-14 for 128 a piece unless the price has changed in the last week. Just a thought

[quadzjr]

Check at Sebring this weekend. If you don't find a cheap (or free) set, I'd be suprised. Check with some of the front-running 'rabbits'.

Will be there.. For those that I see down there, if you see a tall blonde goofy looking guy walking towards you that you don't know.. I am not meaning to be rude.. I just need your tires!:D

[cjb25hs]

assuming I get to run enough to need tires and not just use up old junk ones I have. I'll be buying v710 because tire rack has 205/55-14 for 128 a piece unless the price has changed in the last week. Just a thought

Last time i checked they were back up to $155 or $158 a piece. Probably was an error. i knew I should have ordered them online when I saw them that cheap.:eek:

[wepsbee]

Do the Toyo's need to be shaved to be a decent competitive tire or can the tread stay. Do the Toyo's need to be heat cycled prior to using in a race. Thanks for the advice !!!!!

[gran racing]

Re: tred or no tred. Is your hope to use them as rain & dry tires?

Toyos don't need to be heat cycled.

[wepsbee]

I have 1 set already setup with full tread for rain. I now need a good set for dry racing as the current set is less than optimal!!!!!!!

[joeg]

Dan--My experience with Toyos is that they can be a "greasy" tire when hot, so for the dry, they should be shaved.

Adds to the expense, unfortunately.

[wepsbee]

Thank you, I will have them shaved, greasy is not good!!

[mc-integra111]

Do the Toyo's need to be shaved to be a decent competitive tire or can the tread stay. Do the Toyo's need to be heat cycled prior to using in a race. Thanks for the advice !!!!!

When I was starting out, I ran full tread RA1's in the dry. I did not think they were greasy, but they did not have competitive grip levels. As I wore down the tread, the grip got better and better. I would say you would need to shave an RA1 down to 2/32" (normal shaving is 4/32") to be competitive. I would say I gained about 2 sec (on a 1:30 lap time) on a nearly used up tire versus when I ran that same tire full tread. I never heat cycled my RA1's.

[wepsbee]

Thanks for all the help!!

[gran racing]

Dan, I'd shave them to 4/32". Maybe if it were a spec tire for the class I'd do 2/32" but part of your decision obviously financially driven and it really won't make that much difference. Besides, after a couple of races you'll have the tires down to 2/32" anyway. :)

You know, I still feel bad about not having been able to help you more when at the Glen. I will never eat at that restaurant again!

[lateapex911]

....

You know, I still feel bad about not having been able to help you more when at the Glen. I will never eat at that restaurant again!

That's music to my ears!

[wepsbee]

Dan, I'd shave them to 4/32". Maybe if it were a spec tire for the class I'd do 2/32" but part of your decision obviously financially driven and it really won't make that much difference. Besides, after a couple of races you'll have the tires down to 2/32" anyway. :)

You know, I still feel bad about not having been able to help you more when at the Glen. I will never eat at that restaurant again!

Not to worry another year has arrived and more learning to be done. I appreciate the try!! If I tell the vendor to have them shaved should I specify dept or is the 4/32" standard.

[Gibson]

If anybody at Road Atlanta is looking to get rid of 14x6s real cheep or free, let me know. I will be lurking around the pits both days and am interested in any brand, any condition.

[mc-integra111]

Dave is right, most of the grip is gained as the initial tread depth is lost. To give more info, I would say i gained ~1.5 sec from 8/32" (full tread RA1) to 4/32", while only gaining another ~.5 sec from 4/32" down to corded.


If I tell the vendor to have them shaved should I specify dept or is the 4/32" standard.

I would always specify depth (or at least ask what depth the retailer usually does), just so there are no mistakes.

[wepsbee]

Thanks to all, great place for info!!