HNR Survey

[JimLill]

Like so many, the survey style willl not please everyone but......

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=LmA0QmnXEuZTkIY47yT2sg_3d_3d

[raffaelli]

Completed it. Where's the results?

[JimLill]

Completed it. Where's the results?

I'll post them at the end of this month

[JimLill]

Over 200 people have completed the survey and things are still rolling in.......... I'll publish the results when the flow flattens or at the end of December.

In the meantime, I have updated my matrix http://www.am-rennsport.com/HNR.html

[JoshS]

Over 200 people have completed the survey and things are still rolling in.......... I'll publish the results when the flow flattens or at the end of December.
Have you published this to places where there isn't as much SFI-hatred as in the IT community? I frequent a bunch of other forums and no one talks about this stuff like they do here. I also haven't seen this poll posted. I think if you want a good cross-section of the community, you need to go outside the world of IT.

[JimLill]

Have you published this to places where there isn't as much SFI-hatred as in the IT community? I frequent a bunch of other forums and no one talks about this stuff like they do here. I also haven't seen this poll posted. I think if you want a good cross-section of the community, you need to go outside the world of IT.

A good point and it is on 10 or so forums by now I think. Feel free to post it on others's if you'd like.

[JimLill]

Results now at:

http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?p=47252#post47252

[924Guy]

Thanks for providing such a great service, Jim!

Very interesting to see such a disparity between "data from sled tests" and SFI approval.

Not sure how US-focused the participants were, but I'm surprised that so many would value the FIA cert. Good marketing? Since it is after all just a HANS quality control test, I mean.

[JimLill]

Thanks for providing such a great service, Jim!

Very interesting to see such a disparity between "data from sled tests" and SFI approval.

Not sure how US-focused the participants were, but I'm surprised that so many would value the FIA cert. Good marketing? Since it is after all just a HANS quality control test, I mean.

- My pleasure..........

- FWIW, FIA does not do sled test stuff, SFI does witness the Delphi Run, other sled data is OEM and sled-staff witnessed

- Looking thorugh the IP#, nearly all of the responses came from US/Canada

[Tom Donnelly]

What does "head excustion cm" in the last collumn?

[JimLill]

<duh>........ it means you found a sloppy typo on my part as it was in that last column!

Thanks for finding that........

Tom is referring to http://www.am-rennsport.com/HNR.html

That is Head Excursion in centimeters, data I have only found in the 2002 Melvin paper.

[gsbaker]

Very interesting to see such a disparity between "data from sled tests" and SFI approval.
Not to mention "Ease of egress..." as the #1 consideration. Folks have figured this out, hence SFI's low rating.

[Daryl]

What bothers me is how much weight is put on the SFI ratings.

The top 3 items people found "critical" were ease of egress, ease of driving and sled test data. The #4 most critical was that stupid SFI sticker! More than 1/3 of the respondents found that to be "critical". 1/3 or so of the market ain't buying without that sticker. At least, that is how I viewed "critical" when I took the survey.

If I was putting a device to market, I can either try to educate the masses about what the SFI is all about, try to promote another organization with a different approach (RSI) to the racers and the organizations, or I can say screw-it and make the best SFI approved device I can. Or I can do all three :)

Like I've mentioned on another forum. Jim, thanks for taking the time and effort. In addition to the work on this survey, for the data matrix and the moderation on the trackpedia forum.

[JimLill]

When I look at every bit of raw data, and align the individual votes of users, I see that some people checked all 3 "approval" choices as critical. Maybe, just to be "safe"

Also, in the case of SFI, there is a chance that many checked that as critical in making a choice of what to buy but that doesn't mean critical in terms of performance. For example, if you race with an org that currently requires SFI, you might see that as critical to what you buy.

[Z3_GoCar]

When I look at every bit of raw data, and align the individual votes of users, I see that some people checked all 3 "approval" choices as critical. Maybe, just to be "safe"

Also, in the case of SFI, there is a chance that many checked that as critical in making a choice of what to buy but that doesn't mean critical in terms of performance. For example, if you race with an org that currently requires SFI, you might see that as critical to what you buy.

As this survey was broadcast across multiple message boards, you've got a cross section from multiple sanctioning bodys, and of those only the SCCA doesn't mandate SFI/FIA compliant devices. That is if you run even once a season with NASA, BMWCCA-CR, PCA, or any number of other sanctioning bodies, if there isn't a SFI sticker then there's no racing on the track. I say this not because I'm a fan of HANS or the SFI spec, because the wording of the SFI spec requires a device that crosses patent lines. For an example look at what's happening to Defender being sued for patent infringement. What might the outcome of this suite be? Is there a chance that Downing/Hubbard might loose the rights to future patent income because the also wrote the SFI spec?

On a side note, did anyone see the glowing write up of D/H in Grassroots? Is anyone planning on writing a letter on that?

[gsbaker]

On a side note, did anyone see the glowing write up of D/H in Grassroots? Is anyone planning on writing a letter on that?
Are they an advertiser?

[Z3_GoCar]

Are they an advertiser?

Not directly that I can see, lots of HANS authorized dealers are thought. The article is called "Personal Best 25" It's a list of 25 people who've helped Grassroots racing; Downing and Hubbard are listed as "Saving our necks" on page 88.

[Daryl]

James, right here in SoCal you have VARA, HSR-West and the AROSC who currently, don't care about the SFI or FIA tag on optional head and neck restraints.

[gsbaker]

Not directly that I can see, lots of HANS authorized dealers are though.
Gotta keep the ad buyers happy.

[spdmonkey]

Gotta keep the ad buyers happy.

Yeah thats it. We've figured out why he HANS is so popular. Its sold by authorized distributers via a magazine aimed at grassroots racers. What a novel concept. If you can't beat it knock it...

[gsbaker]

Thanks for helping us understand all those details.

[JimLill]

a simpler look at the results, table merge 1-4 as "care"

http://www.trackpedia.com/photogarage/data/500/yesno.png

[gsbaker]

Nice work, Jim. Thanks for putting this together.

[Tom Donnelly]

<duh>........ it means you found a sloppy typo on my part as it was in that last column!

Thanks for finding that........

Tom is referring to http://www.am-rennsport.com/HNR.html

That is Head Excursion in centimeters, data I have only found in the 2002 Melvin paper.


Duh, on my part. I thought maybe it was a medical term. :blink:
Oh well, excuuusssse meeeee.

And it is a cool chart.

[shwah]

Jim - You probably have ferreted all of this stuff out, but I stumbled on a small peice of data here:

http://www.racesuit.com/racesuit//accessories/rd3/index.html

[JimLill]

I hadn't seen that page, but I think I have that data.........

this continues to be revised

http://www.am-rennsport.com/HNR.html

[cchandler]

How about a survey question response to: Saves you from dying (or becoming a quadrapalegic) in a crash because you would have otherwise suffered a basal skull fracture ............................................... Level of importance? - 100% .......................

[gsbaker]

Jim,

What is "Quick Disconnect for Fixed Tethers" in column three? Apparently we sell them for $85-$95.

[gsbaker]

Jim - You probably have ferreted all of this stuff out, but I stumbled on a small peice of data here:

http://www.racesuit.com/racesuit//accessories/rd3/index.html
None of those results are published or otherwise verified.

[JimLill]

Jim,

What is "Quick Disconnect for Fixed Tethers" in column three? Apparently we sell them for $85-$95.

Sliding tethers do not apply to an Isaac, so fixed is close. You have QD option. Tell me what it should be

[gsbaker]

Sliding tethers do not apply to an Isaac, so fixed is close. You have QD option. Tell me what it should be
Quick release is standard. The Isaac uses positive lock, quick release pins, and the new Link has QR snap shackles.

[JimLill]

Quick release is standard. The Isaac uses positive lock, quick release pins, and the new Link has QR snap shackles.

my confusion comes from the $20 option shown here


https://secure.daysite.net/security/isaacsecure/orderform.html

update: thinking back, and looking at the current page. I believe you've updated your form

[JimLill]

speaking of updates.........

this continues to be revised as new info becomes available

http://www.racesafetydata.info/HNR.html