Trans AM is back

[IPRESS]

Announced at PRI show.

[Knestis]

Did they do it smart or dumb...?

K

[IPRESS]

I just got an email saying it was being run with a mix of events including some of the bigger SCCA Nationals (ie RAtlanta & VIR DBLs, Rose Cup). Also running with maybe ALMS and some div of NASCAR. As I remember it had six events set and a few more TBA.

[JoshS]

I just got an email saying it was being run with a mix of events including some of the bigger SCCA Nationals (ie RAtlanta & VIR DBLs, Rose Cup). Also running with maybe ALMS and some div of NASCAR. As I remember it had six events set and a few more TBA.
Sounds good, except as I understand it, the Rose Cup is not a National event this year, it's a double regional. Still, it's believable that TransAm could race that weekend.

[JeffYoung]

Prep rules?

Is it like the last iteration of TransAm with tube frame cars, or is it like Koni Challenge with pony cars?

[keithg]

Prep rules?

Is it like the last iteration of TransAm with tube frame cars, or is it like Koni Challenge with pony cars?

From what I have read if it's legal for SCCA GT1 it's legal for Trans-AM.

[RacerBowie]

From what I have read if it's legal for SCCA GT1 it's legal for Trans-AM.

If that is the case, they fail. They just don't get it.

[quadzjr]

If that is the case, they fail. They just don't get it.

x2

[dickita15]

If that is the case, they fail. They just don't get it.

I think you expectations might be off. From my guess this is not an expensive major initiative to create a new top level pro series but more of a ground up grass roots series based on club racing rules and using a old revered name that SCCA just had laying around, think Nasport of Pro IT not Grand Am. The new series seem to have been backed by current GT1 guys who are looking to do a little more that Nationals and if handled right could certainly be built into something of value.
There could be some upside and very little risk for the club.

[tnord]

If that is the case, they fail. They just don't get it.

x3

trans-am cars should be able to crossover into koni challenge GT without changing much.

[erlrich]

If that is the case, they fail. They just don't get it.

+1

Was watching the Monterey Historic races last weekend, and when the Trans-Am race came on I couldn't help but think about how bad SCCA f*#$d up that series. With the new Mustangs & Challengers already out, and the new Camaro about to hit the streets that could be an awesome series if they did it right.

[tnord]

http://scca.com/newsarticle.aspx?hub=4&news=3541

yup, based on GT-1 rules.

epic......FAIL.

[Jeremy Billiel]

I appreciate your point Dick and I do see little downside to SCCA, but I am x4. Trans Am racing shoudl be factory cars with minor tweaks that gives the factoires the bragging rights surrounding their make/model.

Then again this all may be moot, as GM looks like it will be going bankrupt here shortly.

[dickita15]

So if SCCA took on this grand vision of a rebirth of Tran-Am (which I admit would be way cool) and then lost a half a million dollars you guys would be okay with that?
At least two years ago SCCA officials met with the big three about a TA rebirth and the companies all pledged cars. They were told it could not happen unless the auto makers pledged financial support and they all said never mind.
The two periods in history when Trans-Am racing was awesome were both times of factory support. This GT1 series may be of no interest to you but I think it unfair to say it is a failure just because it is not your fantasy series.

[shwah]

Make it similar to Koni series, OR just base it on the IT rule set and spec current 'pony car' performance level vehicles. I could see that having fields 2-3x larger than GT1 cars will give.

[tnord]

So if SCCA took on this grand vision of a rebirth of Tran-Am (which I admit would be way cool) and then lost a half a million dollars you guys would be okay with that?
At least two years ago SCCA officials met with the big three about a TA rebirth and the companies all pledged cars. They were told it could not happen unless the auto makers pledged financial support and they all said never mind.
The two periods in history when Trans-Am racing was awesome were both times of factory support. This GT1 series may be of no interest to you but I think it unfair to say it is a failure just because it is not your fantasy series.

why would they lose a half mil?

factory support gets you what, 6 cars on the grid? combine that with the other two GT1 cars at a national and you got yourself a race!!!

i really think the grids will suck with this format. if you keep the rules more tame to allow the Koni GT cars to enter, you can get crossover entries from them, where there actually are a bunch of privateer teams. these guys might be interested in Trans-Am for testing purposes, or i bet the demographic of the guys running in that have some favorable nostalgia for the TA series, and being able to run BOTH TA and Koni GT would be very appealing. if i had money, that sure sounds like a good bargain to me.

building and maintaining a GT1 car for a series that might be gone in 12mos? F that.

[Xian]

Make it similar to Koni series, OR just base it on the IT rule set and spec current 'pony car' performance level vehicles. I could see that having fields 2-3x larger than GT1 cars will give.



if you keep the rules more tame to allow the Koni GT cars to enter, you can get crossover entries from them, where there actually are a bunch of privateer teams. these guys might be interested in Trans-Am for testing purposes, or i bet the demographic of the guys running in that have some favorable nostalgia for the TA series, and being able to run BOTH TA and Koni GT would be very appealing. if i had money, that sure sounds like a good bargain to me.


x2 or whatever we're up to now. Create another series that is "pony car" specific but where the prep level crosses over to Koni GT or Grand Am. IMO, that's really the only way to make it work.

[JeffYoung]

While I too would like to see a return to factory Trans Am in production like cars, Dick's point is a good one.

SCCA can't afford a series like that anymore. High priced track rentals, support staff, advertising, etc. Pro series like THAT cost money.

On the other hand, an essentially "self run" series by GT1 drivers that is tacked onto Nationals, etc., doesn't cost the SCCA money.

It's a point I had not considered, and Dick is right. An expensive full blown pony car series could cost SCCA a lot of money.

[quadzjr]

Maybe they kept it different than the koni challenge series to keep from possilbly taking away from the it's old series, Speed GT? Currently you have had teams with factory support in the series.. I don't think there is any at the moment, but having another series to similiar to it could take some people away from it. Much like how a few teams have left speed touring for the cheaper koni challenge. Which I beleive was one reason why the rules for the speed series were changed for next year to make the cars hopefully cheaper.. Atleast that is what I have heard.

I don't get what the point is of having two series for GT1 cars to compete in the same sanctioning body. I mean there are crossovers.. for sure like SM/ITA, etc.. but how is the trans-am sereis going to differ from the current GT1 class?

[tnord]

While I too would like to see a return to factory Trans Am in production like cars, Dick's point is a good one.

SCCA can't afford a series like that anymore. High priced track rentals, support staff, advertising, etc. Pro series like THAT cost money.

On the other hand, an essentially "self run" series by GT1 drivers that is tacked onto Nationals, etc., doesn't cost the SCCA money.

It's a point I had not considered, and Dick is right. An expensive full blown pony car series could cost SCCA a lot of money.

i'm not talking about changing anything but the ruleset. still run it in conjunction with Nationals, and everything else the same as is.

[spdmonkey]

Many of you guys are missing the point of this. Unfortunately I can't comment on whats been going on behind the scenes here. This is a bunch of guys with old T/A cars sitting around that got together and went to the SCCA asking if they could help find a few dates. The "series" has the ability to use the T/A name and they will. Its not in the cards for this to be a production based series at this time. Will it succeed? I dunno, but its not aimed at the spectators. Its aimed at the guy that has a tube framed GT-1 or T/A chassis in his shop that hasn't raced it in years. I've seen the numbers. It *should* work.

db

[dickita15]

I received a little inside information. The new Trans-Am was put together by some current GT1 racers some of whom were mentioned in the press release.
SCCA will collect sanction and insurance fees and all operating expenses will be borne directly by the series. SCCA, Inc. will have no financial exposure beyond the insurance risk just like every Club Racing event.
Again this seems like the old Nasport series or the FF2000 series run by Mike Rand.
Really the only thing SCCA is putting at risk is the Trans-Am name that has been sitting on the shelf for a couple of years and really given the marketplace was probably not going to be used soon.
By the way the second great TA era in the 80’s with Dorsey, Kendall, Boris, Sharp and many others was with pretty much the tube frame cars that are currently GT1.

[tnord]

so........

there are a bunch of guys sitting around with idle "trans am" cars...
they have a place to race in SCCA already in GT1
they ask SCCA if they can run in conjunction with SCCA national events
and now because they can put "TA" on the side of the car instead of GT1 they're all going to come out of the woodwork?

i'm skeptical.

[dickita15]

That’s cool Travis, skeptical is good.
We are all disappointed when we heard this that it was not the grand TA of yore.
But I do not see the club doing anything wrong here. Some racers got together to try something and the club is being supportive. I just do not see a good reason to bash the club here, and that is not aimed at you or even this board so much, it just seems to be the default position for many.

[Jerome McElroy]

That’s cool Travis, skeptical is good.
We are all disappointed when we heard this that it was not the grand TA of yore.
But I do not see the club doing anything wrong here. Some racers got together to try something and the club is being supportive. I just do not see a good reason to bash the club here, and that is not aimed at you or even this board so much, it just seems to be the default position for many.

Dick,

I guess I resemble that remark.
It was just too easy to take that knee-jerk reaction to the Big Hoopla of the Return of the Trans-Am that was on the front page of the National website.
You and I have carried that bag of spears for the club for a long time so I'm positive you know that when I look at anything with a skeptical eye I'm not just BASHING. I'm a lover, not a hater.
But that aside I think the club's interest would be better served by re-naming the whole World Challenge thing the 'Trans-Am' and preserving the great history of that brand name and let this group of entrepreneurs come up with something on their own. Let's not forget the short lived 'American GT' series that was just this very thing but went the way of the dodo a few seasons a go.
Yes, if the Jags, Vettes, Mustangs, and Oldsmobiles of yore roll out from under whatever rock they are hiding under to blow this series up that would be good exposure for the club. But where in a National weekend time frame would they put this? And would the dedicated GT-1 guy look to put another 90 miles on his car?
I don't know the answers. I'm just asking.

Pass that spear, would you?:D

[benspeed]

I see this as a good promo for the Trans Am name and if it gets some guys back on the track - great.

But does this have legs to run with? I unfortunately don't think so. A better and more relevant series for amateurs is Pro IT. Even the wealthiest amateurs in GT1 are sitting out these days and I don't see this changing. The old TA cars are an absolute fortune to run - a weekend is easily $2K.

My position - SCCA should be working on a more relevant product for the regional and national amateur. All the bling we see in production cars, from wings to spoilers, should be carried into our classes. NASA permits bling that guys and gals like - or maybe I should say YOUNG guys and gals. Makes the cars look a lot more exciting on the track, more contemporary and more likely to attract drivers to SCCA, instead of losing them to other clubs. On the flip side - the consistency of SCCA rules making proceedures bring comfort to those building new race cars. But losing focus on what cars are cool is a recipe for diminishing participation.

The additional of a Trans Am race to national and regional events is great for guys who want to run a more 'elite' version of GT1. But will this do anything for the product our club offers and make our club more relevant? Nope.

[shwah]

That’s cool Travis, skeptical is good.
We are all disappointed when we heard this that it was not the grand TA of yore.
But I do not see the club doing anything wrong here. Some racers got together to try something and the club is being supportive. I just do not see a good reason to bash the club here, and that is not aimed at you or even this board so much, it just seems to be the default position for many.

Just to be clear. I don't know that the club is making a financial mistake - actually I think it would be almost impossible to cost the club money on an event by event basis. However, it will serve to devalue a very significant brand name - one that could have been used to bring an interesting new series with reasonable rule set to the club in a very similar low risk fasion.

It is a shame to see that the Rose Cup could potentially pull some GT1 participation from the Sprints - it is always awesome to watch those cars run in their natural environment at RA.

[Butch Kummer]

Just give the thing a chance!

It's not costing SCCA any money, it's not costing the National drivers any track time, it's being organized by the GT-1 racers and prep shops, and it's got the potential to attract an existing population of cars instead of hoping someone will build a fleet of race cars (new-age Pony cars) that doesn't currently exist.

Further devaluing the Trans-Am brand? Get serious. Nobody's raced T/A cars the last two years so how is this making it any worse?

I see it as a minimal risk with a decent possible upside - I'm willing to give it a shot. We're putting them on the schedule at our March event, we'll still have a full slate of National and Pro-IT racing that weekend, we could draw some spectators that remember the heyday of the series, and we're generating entry fees as well. You don't want to watch? Fine.

And Ben - the "real" GT-1 drivers spend $2000 a weekend on beer and chips for the crew! We were spending $5K a weekend running on a shoestring (used tires, sleeping in the truck, etc.). Figure $10-15K a weekend for the guys that run near the front at a National event.

Oops - forgot. Chris - running T/A at the Rose Cup will not detract measurably from the GT-1 field at the Sprints, and figure on one of the TBA events to be at Road America.

[benspeed]

Butch - that is monster dough! I'd blow my whole season budget in one weekend. The return of Trans Am hurts nothing - but to me it demonstrates some blindness towards where we need to focus change for relevancy.

I will throw down props for GTA - now that's a series that is relevant and should become the next "GT1" of SCCA. And you can run on an IT budget. You get those cars up here and I'll buy another one in a second.

Oh - for those who are skeptical, I MADE MONEY selling my GTA car.

[tom_sprecher]

Personally, I hope Trans Am is susseccful to the extent they continue to run for years at National races that I'll be running Atlanta Region ProIT. I figure the more the merrier.

You see, I'm a selfish bastard that way.

[Knestis]

I think you expectations might be off. From my guess this is not an expensive major initiative to create a new top level pro series but more of a ground up grass roots series based on club racing rules and using a old revered name that SCCA just had laying around, think Nasport of Pro IT not Grand Am. The new series seem to have been backed by current GT1 guys who are looking to do a little more that Nationals and if handled right could certainly be built into something of value.
There could be some upside and very little risk for the club.

The answer to my question is "dumb."

K

[Knestis]

Many of you guys are missing the point of this. Unfortunately I can't comment on whats been going on behind the scenes here. This is a bunch of guys with old T/A cars sitting around that got together and went to the SCCA asking if they could help find a few dates. The "series" has the ability to use the T/A name and they will. Its not in the cards for this to be a production based series at this time. Will it succeed? I dunno, but its not aimed at the spectators. Its aimed at the guy that has a tube framed GT-1 or T/A chassis in his shop that hasn't raced it in years. I've seen the numbers. It *should* work.

db

You just described restricted regionals with a boutique name.

K

[shwah]

Further devaluing the Trans-Am brand? Get serious. Nobody's raced T/A cars the last two years so how is this making it any worse?

Oops - forgot. Chris - running T/A at the Rose Cup will not detract measurably from the GT-1 field at the Sprints, and figure on one of the TBA events to be at Road America.

I think the Trans Am name does have value and recognition, despite its past decade, and that using the name for an ameteur series will have a negative impact on that.

I also think that the new series will not hurt the club finances, just wish it used a different name, as it may hurt the value of that name. Important distinction.

Glad to hear that you expect the sprints to be not impacted. Are the Tony Aves and others planning to do both events somehow?

[Butch Kummer]

Glad to hear that you expect the sprints to be not impacted. Are the Tony Aves and others planning to do both events somehow?

You and I will have to agree to disagree on the value of the TransAm brand and whether or not this series will diminish it. Granted Mark Donahue, Parnelli Jones, Dan Gurney and many others are part of that heritage, but they're not likely to come back and neither is Bear Bryant. :D My position is this is better than nothing, and nothing is what we've had since 2005 (and some would argue the decade before that).

First of all I said "measurably", plus I'd speculate that even MORE GT-1 cars would show up for the Sprints if they knew Tony Ave was going to be in Oregon that weekend! :blink:

[tom_sprecher]

As much as I like to avoid doing, I have to agree with Butch on his assessment of the value of "Trans Am". Except for the very few involved in SCCA, other amateur road racing organizations and die hard non-NASCAR racing fans the vast majority of the public thinks of "Trans Am" as a car of days gone by.

Hell, since I became involved in this sport I have met only two people outside of racing who even heard of "SCCA". Except for NASCAR are there any truly successful tin top based racing series? Many of us on these amateur racing forums bitch about how there would be more success if Speed would cover other series, but I have to think Speed has the finacial motivation and research capabilities to determine what sells to the public and what doesn't. At least more that we do.

Yes, a new series based on production based racing between Camaros, Challengers and Mustrangs would have been awesome beyond expression, but today the practicality of such a series does not exist. Who knows? In three months the only car out of the three mentioned for sale may be the Mustang

Welcome back, Trans Am, and like I said before, the more the merrier.

[JoshS]

I think the Trans Am name does have value and recognition, despite its past decade, and that using the name for an ameteur series will have a negative impact on that.

Agreed. Like US Touring Car, which now is nothing more than a wings-and-bling NASA class. It's called Pro Racing, but anyone who is involved knows the difference.

[Dave Burchfield]

Has anyone thought that SCCA and SCCA Pro is interested in getting the series going again with a pool of cars that already exists with the possibility of moving it toward the new pony cars as soon as they are all in the market and can be built to a set of rules to be determined?

[Bryan KF8G]

Trans Am would be a much better series if it was a "door slamming" car with a pan chassis. That would allow those in AS to come into the series and race when they wanted. There are a lot more AS cars out there than GT1 and old Trans Am'ers. I remember one old fellow who DROVE his Trans AM car to the track, changed the tires, and believe it or not, ran mid pack!!! But of course, that was a long while ago!!!

[Knestis]

Dave Burchfield
GLDiv ITS #74
Mazda RX-7(the one Kirk rolled over the tire wall at Portland)
(or so I am told)

I just noticed this and about shot coffee on my keyboard. I'd forgotten the connection but to set the record straight on what I DO know about - it was Seattle (Turn 2, to be precise) and I didn't roll it. I spun 180* left, hit the wall at an oblique angle going backward, went straight up in the air going 180* back the other way, and ended up perched neatly on top of it. Surprisingly, most of it buffed out or could be pulled by hand.

I got myself in that pickle using a National as a "test day." We were late getting the car prepared for the ESCORT series so (y'all will LOVE THIS) we showed up with it half converted from the base model to the GXL or whatever the heck it was. By "half," I mean we had the front suspension and brakes swapped over but not the rear. (Some test day.) Needless to say, the car had balance issues. With that goofy automagic toe adjust-o-matic thing, when turned in it would go, "Sure, no, okay, maybenot, whatheheck, whew!" cycling between over- and understeer, before finally making a commitment...

It was a completely illegal SSA car and we were already in dutch with the tech guys, told that if we flinched we'd get the book thrown at us. I had to do one more National to get my much-vaunted "pro" licence and didn't want to be a problem, so I did the dumbest thing possible: I tried to stay out of someone's way. The race was almost over and as I was getting lapped by a couple of SSGT cars in an actual race, I kind of hung out driver's right a tick longer than normal before turning in. I thought I'd slowed enough more than usual to make the later entry work but history disagrees. The car did its hokey pokey thing and I ran out of pavement before it made up its mind...

A week later I sent in my "pro" license application. I was AWESOME.

K

[Flyinglizard]

The Trans Am was pro. Cost 2500 entry,paid out some cash. Ran on TV!! I think that some of the cars,never got paid,the last year.
The lap times, from the tube cars and the current WC cars are not very far off. I am pretty sure that the WC cars ran about 2:00 at Sebring. The old Tube,310in /carb cars ran about 2:03. Maybe they could all put in some cash and some small weight/ engine adjustments and run togther.
IMHO. MM

[Robert Zecca]

I spoke to Tommy Kendall yesterday to get his thoughts. We need to see Tommy and Dorsey Schroeder back in cars along with Tanner Foust and this series will take off in no time.+-

[spdmonkey]

I forgot to mention one caveat in the rules. That being the requirement of a SFI 38.1 Head and Neck Restraint. Even for those running in GT-1 that might step over into T/A on any given weekend. Now from my informal viewing at the track *most* of those guys are already wearing a HANS so this is not a big surprise. It is however the beginning of the requirement of the H&NR in SCCA Club races since the line of Club and Pro at least in these races is going to be blended.

db

[dickita15]

Based on nothing but a guess I do not think that is a black helicopter plot. This new series is sanctioned by Pro Racing and Pro requires 38.1 already.

[StephenB]

I don't get what the point is of having two series for GT1 cars to compete in the same sanctioning body. I mean there are crossovers.. for sure like SM/ITA, etc.. but how is the trans-am sereis going to differ from the current GT1 class?

This series sounds the same as any of the "PRO-IT" events that we have created in our catagory of racing. I haven't heard of any complaints from any of us when we run a Pro-IT event. I think this is a great way to grow GT-1 and to allow the GT-1 drivers to "double dip" at some events and go to some special events they normally wouldn't get to run at. (Just like I am doing with the TEAM DI PRO-IT series in the northeast)

I think the GT-1 Catagory is almost exactly what we think of when we think Trans-am so why not let them race again under the same name? Why not let the past series live on as big or small as it is and except that Trans-Am has been replaced by other SCCA Pro classes in regards to TV, Advertising, Revenue, and Public Interst.

Stephen