MiDiv Schedule

[Turkflyer]

What happened to Memphis on the '09 schedule. Only one race, and it doesn't have IT?

[Speed Raycer]

And you've seen the schedule where?????? ;)

[IPRESS]

Scott that is what the tentative schedule looked like.

[Turkflyer]

I'll see if I can attach the tentative schedule I saw.

[SLUF]

Is this the one you saw over in the other thread? Nothing official has been published that I can find. I think this was Matt taking notes in a meeting somewhere.

3-14/15 MEM N/N
3-28/29 STL R/IT/N
4-4/5 Hallett R/IT/N
4- 18/19 MAM ssR
5- 2/3 ??? N/N forgot to write down where
5- 30/31 MAM R/IT/N
7- 4/5 HAL ???
7- 18/19 MEM R/R
8-1/2 STL ??

[Turkflyer]

Here is what I saw:
2009 Midwest Division Schedule - Tentative Draft 11-17-08JAN3/410/1117/1824/2531/1F7/814/1521/2228/1ENational Convention100 Acre Wood-StLB2/19-21/09(Fri/Sat, 2/27-28)Las Vegas(non-SCCA Event)M7/814/15NN21/2228/29R-INAMiDiv ConventionMMP/MS (no IT) provisionalGIR/STLRKansas City (3/6-7-8)14CFR/DMVR (3/14)Daylight Svgs Time Begins 3/8A4/5R-IN11/1218/19SSR25/26HCPHMRC/AVRG MAM/ MVRG-KVRG-AVRGDrumright, OK/NEOk (4/25)R8X4/17-18-1925XGIR/StL-Hyperdrive (Wed)GIR/StL (full day)Easter - 12th M2/3NN9/1016/1723/2430/31R-INAHPT/KVRGMAM/MVRGY(no IT)13XGIR/StL (Wed)Mother's Day - 10thMemorial Day - 25th J6/713/1420/21X27/28U20-21 Location TBD/MSN10XGIR/StL (Wed)June Sprints (19-21)Father's Day - 21stJ4/5R-IN11/1218/19RR25/26UHMRC/AVRGMPH/Neb (T)L8XGIR/StL (Wed)A1/2R-IN8/915/16R-IN22/2329/30UGIR/STLMAM/MVRGG22XGIR/StL (full day)S5/6R*r12/1319/2026/27EHPT/KVRGTest Days - RA (14-21)National Runoffs - RA (22-27)P5/6ProSolo Finale - Lincoln8-11Solo Nationals - LincolnLabor Day - 7thO3/410/1117/1824/25RR31/1CGIR/STLTDaylight Svgs Time Ends 11/1N7/814/1521/2228/29OARRC (6-8)VRoad Atlanta / Atlanta RegionThanksgiving - 26thDEC5/612/1319/2026/27Events:S = Drivers SchoolN = NationalX = Performance Driving Experience (PDX)R = Regional (MidAm)I = IT TourHC = Hill ClimbR* = Bonus Regional (MidAm)E = EnduroCT = Club Trialsr = Regional (non-points)ProV = ProVeeTT = Track Trials(T) = tentativeMRRS = MIDIV Road Rally SeriesTracks:GIR - Gateway International Raceway - St Louis, MOMAM - Mid-America Motorplex - Glenwood, IAHPT - Heartland Park Topeka - Topeka, KSMMP - Memphis Motor Sports Park - Memphis, TNHMRC - Hallett Motor Racing Circuit - Hallett, OKMPH - Motorsports Park Hastings - Hastings, NENSS - Nashville Super Speedway - Nashville, TNTotal Events: S-2; R-12 (1-R*); r-1; E-0; N-10 (2-NN); I-6; X-7; HC-1; CT-0; TT-0 = 12 Weekends + 1 HC-only + 3 X-only + 4 X-Wed11/17/08 mjs (draft)

[Turkflyer]

Boy, that didn't work well. Not sure how to post an Excel spreadsheet here. Anyway, the July race you show for MEM isn't on this one. July races are Hallett on the 4th, then MPH in Nebraska 18/19th.

[FireballPhil]

Everyone,

At the time that we had schedule discussions, I had a difficult time getting the MMP schedule and what they did have conficted with other race dates on the Midiv schedule. So we tentatively set a NN date for March. I finally got a meeting with the MMP management on Wednesday before Thanksgiving. It looks like we are going to have a RR/PDX/Enduro on Memorial weekend May 23/24 and probably another RR on August 22/23(?) with probably a PDX. I have to run that through my BoD to get approved but that is what looks like for Memphis in 2009. I know that the August date will be hot but I am trying to put on more races for the regional guys and also build up a worker base. We really need help in recruiting workers for 2009.

ps. we never had a July date on the schedule so I don't know where that came from.

[tnord]

Everyone,

At the time that we had schedule discussions, I had a difficult time getting the MMP schedule and what they did have conficted with other race dates on the Midiv schedule. So we tentatively set a NN date for March. I finally got a meeting with the MMP management on Wednesday before Thanksgiving. It looks like we are going to have a RR/PDX/Enduro on Memorial weekend May 23/24 and probably another RR on August 22/23(?) with probably a PDX. I have to run that through my BoD to get approved but that is what looks like for Memphis in 2009. I know that the August date will be hot but I am trying to put on more races for the regional guys and also build up a worker base. We really need help in recruiting workers for 2009.

ps. we never had a July date on the schedule so I don't know where that came from.

Phil -

Why did you decide to go with two dates rather than one? I am very strongly in favor of the entire division reducing its schedule in order to create stronger participation at the events that are held. We have had too many dates too close together in this division for the last few years, and everyone has paid the price for it with money-losing events.

The mentality of all schedule makers needs to transition from "land grab" to cooperation, because the event date(s) chosen by the region(s) hosting the event affect EVERYONE in the whole division. The best way to help out the regional program is NOT to schedule more regional races, but to make each regional race better attended. A glorified lapping day with 2 or 3 cars per class hurts more than it helps.

[FireballPhil]

Travis,

I assume that you are referring to the 2 RR events that I listed above. If you reread my message above, you will notice that I still have to get approval from my BoD. I have not listed the above events with our Midiv Scheduler yet but will after my BoD meeting next Wednesday.

How can I build up a good worker base on 1 or 2 weekends a year? About 90% of the workers at our events come from other regions. We have only 1 chief locally. In the 3 years that I was RE, we had only 1 event when we had more than enough workers. I don't know if you have ever organized an event before but recruiting enough volunteers is difficult.

[tnord]

i have no idea how you build up a good worker base, but i do know that scheduling too many events too close together burns out the enthusiasm/budget of the workers we do have.

[Turkflyer]

Thanks Phil. Let us know the outcome. We appreciate your good work.

[IPRESS]

So Phil, the NN is a go in March?

[SLUF]

Wondering the same thing too Phil! I would love three race weekends in Memphis. World class BBQ and I have a place to stay!

[FireballPhil]

SLUFF & IPRESS,

Thanks so much for your vote of confidence. It really means alot. The NN on March 14/15 is a definite go. MMP gave me 3 more dates to look at in 2009. All of these dates coincide with an open date in the Midiv schedule. I "want" to use 2 out of 3 of these dates. They will be a RR and probably both a PDX on one day and an enduro the other day. Those dates are Memorial weekend May 23/24; August 22/23; October 31/November 1.

I will find out about those dates Wednesday night but more than likely they will be the May and August dates. The October date is 1 week after the RR in STL. I had some less than positive feedback from STL so I am not going to consider the October date. The STL region is very good to the Mid-South region and I am not going to screw up that relationship. I am trying to build a worker base for the Mid-South region is the reason for the 2 extra races.

SLUF/IPRESS, do you have any opinions or suggesitons? They would be appreciated.

[tnord]

Phil -

Is Memphis region prepared to lose between $5,000-$10,000 in the name of trying to building a worker base?

I know there's probably not many people from NE who would travel to Memphis for a race and vice versa, but there probably are people in MO who would go to either place. However, I can practically garauntee there will be ZERO people willing to travel to Omaha one weekend, and Memphis the next.

From my perspective, adding these two races is going to thin the field both at MAM and Memphis, and create a big heaping loss on the Memphis Region cash flow statement for the month. I have thought about your question of how to attract workers, and my answer is that we have to have a STRONG racing program that puts on a good show in order to make it fun and worthwhile for workers to volunteer their time and money. I have worked corners in the past, and the "races" with only a handful of cars which is hardly anything more than a lapping parade is not fun. But back when SM had 25+ car fields, that was a lot of fun to be on the corners, and if every race was like that, i'd be a lot more willing to do it again.

There are only a certain number of people racing in this part of the country, and especially these days there is only a certain amount of money to be had by the regions. If we keep adding events, we're only slicing the pie into smaller pieces, and that's not good for anyone.

I think adding more events to MiDiv's schedule is the worst thing we can possibly do for the health of both the racing and worker programs.

[PSherm]

Phil -

I think adding more events to MiDiv's schedule is the worst thing we can possibly do for the health of both the racing and worker programs.

+1! Cancelling the S/R at Hallett cost the AVRG. With low car turnouts this year, I think we got lucky with the July race weekend, so we may have broken even on the year. As a driver, cancelling both Hallett and the RR at MPH, cost me plenty for season points. I have heard plenty of complaints over the last couple years from worker chiefs that the back-to-back weekends, as well as just the shear number of events, have taken their toll. Something's gonna give eventually, especially since we can't seem to recruit enuff new blood.....

[CCARVER]

Phil,
John and I will make one of the events you get approved and we will bring all the F&C guys we can fit in the trucks when we head up.
Thanks for all the hard work.
Carver

[FireballPhil]

Thanks Carver for supporting us. You have in the past. And you were also here in 2008 in March when we had the SSR and lost $9400. Thank you. Driver schools are a requirement for a track per the GCR.

[tnord]

Driver schools are a requirement for a track per the GCR.

Curious what this statement means. Not every track has an SCCA school every year, nor should they have to.

[SLUF]

More races in the eastern part of the division! Bring em on Phil!

[tnord]

More races in the eastern part of the division! Bring em on Phil!

are you ok with your region losing $5000-$10,000 on these events?

[SLUF]

Travis, your point is well taken and certainly a consideration for Mid South Region. I do wonder if you have intimate knowledge of the Mid South Region's race operating budget and financial statement for the year in order to be making comments of this nature. If Phil thinks he can have additional races and has the budget to do so then who are we to criticize his efforts to promote club racing in this part of the division. Be happy that SOMEONE is going the extra mile or lap to give us racers a place to feed our addictions. I feel sure his target market for these additional events is not only Midwest Division racers but also racers from Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. If Phil is thinking about an enduro event that would bring an element of competition to the Midwest Division IT participants not seen in the recent past. Lots of fun it sounds like!

[CCARVER]

Travis, your point is well taken and certainly a consideration for Mid South Region. I do wonder if you have intimate knowledge of the Mid South Region's race operating budget and financial statement for the year in order to be making comments of this nature. If Phil thinks he can have additional races and has the budget to do so then who are we to criticize his efforts to promote club racing in this part of the division. Be happy that SOMEONE is going the extra mile or lap to give us racers a place to feed our addictions. I feel sure his target market for these additional events is not only Midwest Division racers but also racers from Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. If Phil is thinking about an enduro event that would bring an element of competition to the Midwest Division IT participants not seen in the recent past. Lots of fun it sounds like!
You are correct sir. Memphis is a 5 hr tow and easy driving.
Did someone say ENDURO?
Sorry you lost money on that school Phil, We did run two drivers in one car. We will just have to bring more drivers and cars next event.
Thanks again for all the support and hard work.
Carver

[tnord]

Travis, your point is well taken and certainly a consideration for Mid South Region. I do wonder if you have intimate knowledge of the Mid South Region's race operating budget and financial statement for the year in order to be making comments of this nature. If Phil thinks he can have additional races and has the budget to do so then who are we to criticize his efforts to promote club racing in this part of the division. Be happy that SOMEONE is going the extra mile or lap to give us racers a place to feed our addictions. I feel sure his target market for these additional events is not only Midwest Division racers but also racers from Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. If Phil is thinking about an enduro event that would bring an element of competition to the Midwest Division IT participants not seen in the recent past. Lots of fun it sounds like!



in 2008 in March when we had the SSR and lost $9400.


and yes, i do have knowledge of the losses incurred for events, but not MidSouth's entire annual operating budget. but MidSouth region is not the only entitiy at risk here, and that's what the schedule makers of the past few years are totally missing. their actions affect not only their region, but everyone around them.

and yes, phil should be thanked for volunteering his time and effort, but that doesn't mean all his decisions are financially sound. let me ask a few questions....

1) is a race with 50 cars across 30 some odd classes really a "race" at all?
2) how large of a loss should be acceptable for an event?
3) how long should the region BOD allow money losing events to continue?
4) what input should the rest of the division have on each other's schedule?
5) if we schedule more races, does that mean the region gets more entries on the year?
6) if we schedule more races, does that mean the division gets more entries on the year?
7) how much weight does a "championship" carry if you never race against more than one or two other people because everyone just stays close to home?
8) does two 50 car events, or one 100 car event do more to attract new members?
9) if the majority of your entrants are made up of SEDiv members, should you be considered part of MiDiv or SEDiv?
10) how many races are "reasonable" to have on the division calendar, and how do you determine that number?

[CCARVER]

Welcome to the volunteer organization know as SCCA.
Where 10% of the members do 100% of the work.
LA is in the Sowdiv.

[tnord]

what does that have to do with anything?

[Spikep]

There were several Memphis drivers at the Heart of Dixie race at Nashville SuperSpeedway last June. I think Phil can count on SEDiv returning the favor in May. I know it's on my calender.
Spike

[FireballPhil]

Spike, Chris, SLUF,

You guys humble me. I love racing or I would not have been involved for 30 years. I have chosen not to continue to respond to Travis because I don't know what I have done to be a spur in his side. This is not the first time that he has barked at me.

Spike, I was actually entered in the past 2 races at Nashville and I will be there in 2009 also if I have a car. I have a daughter and 2 grandsons there and they love to go to the races with me.

Guys, Have a Merry Christmas!:114:

[tnord]

Spike, Chris, SLUF,

I have chosen not to continue to respond to Travis because I don't know what I have done to be a spur in his side. This is not the first time that he has barked at me.


Phil, please don't ignore the issues facing the entire division. I am not meaning to attack you personally, and if it were anyone else trying to add dates to the schedule, I would be all over them as well.

The regions working together on scheduling, reducing the number of events, making sure events don't overlap or all fall too close together is something I have been preaching for years. KVRG went to a two event format in 2008 instead of I believe four in 2007 (excluding runoffs). in 2007 both regional races were sparsely attended (~70), and money losers. in 2008 the one regional race held was iirc over 120 cars and made money. if MidSouth is prepared to take the loss in the name of worker recruitment, i guess participation doesn't matter. but i doubt that's the case.

you "are a spur in my side" because i very strongly believe that what you are trying to do is weakening the regional racing program in this division, and i'm trying to make everyone realize that. i want regional racing in MiDiv to be well attended, competitive, and fun. by adding events and thinning the field all three of those attributes are reduced, be it at MAM, HPT, Hallett, GIR, MMP, or wherever.....

you can ignore me as long as you want, but you won't be able to ignore a 40 car field and a big potential loss the week of the event.

[Speed Raycer]

Travis is "barking" at you, because you're one of the few organizers/planners that frequents the forums. I doubt it's anything personal, you just happen to be the only one that is around to vent to. Invite the other organizers to join in and TN will bark at everyone ;)

It's simple supply and demand. There's too much "supply" (tracks, dates and even sanctioning bodies) and not enough money, racers or workers to meet the demand of the events. Travis doesn't want the regions to start going broke because they have less than desireable turnouts that cant even pay the track rental. I'm with Travis. I'd rather see less dates and larger fields than be able to race any weekend against two other guys in my class.

The PDX and Enduro's are a GREAT idea. The more bang for the buck you can give the entrants the better. Memphis is on my short list if there's a PDX. In fact, our plan for this year is to hit other tracks in the division (we've only raced @ GIR). Any event that has more seat time is going to get our $$$.

[buldogge]

It's not often I say this...but...I agree with Travis as well.

Less dates with good scheduling (to pace the season) will make for larger fields (hopefully)...the last couple of years have definitely been less fun with smaller fields (in ITS at least) for sure!

The whole Memphis/Mid-South Division thing is a whole 'nother ball of wax! As of late, I have often wondered if they belong in SEDiv...and...lately have wondered if STL belongs in CenDiv or GLDiv or whatever it is now given the western bias in MiDiv.

???

[tnord]

Scott's got it.

I sing this tune to anyone and everyone in the division who has anything to do with scheduling, in person, on the phone, web forums, email, whatever.... People will travel to other tracks if we quit scheduling 20 races a year at every track. when i looked at the provisional schedule and saw the shortage of events, I immediately asked myself, "ok, where am I going to travel to this year?" i want to do at least 6 MidAm races this year, I can't do that just at HPT and MAM, so guess what? i just might haul down to Hallett or up to MPH.....or maybe even STL. I really don't like STL, but it is a lot closer than either of the other two.

we can't afford to slowly keep killing ourselves like this.

[Turkflyer]

Not all of us live in the middle of the MiDiv. For those of us in Arkansas, Memphis is great....and MAM is too long a pull. A friend of mine in AS says it costs him $1000 in diesel alone to attend MAM. It's an extra day on the road for everyone down here.

[tnord]

i'm not exactly in the middle of the division either. it's a 10+hr tow from KC (which is neither the farthest point west, or north in the division) to MMP.

[FireballPhil]

I personally don't like the idea of being a part of the SE division. The Mid-South region would have the same problem there as we do in the Midiv.

I propose a separation of part of the MidWest and SouthEast division and form the "East MidWest Divsion". It would incorporate the Mid-South, Mississippi, Arkansas, STL, Southern Illinois, Tennessee, Tennessee Valley, Alabama, and Ozark Mountaing regions. It would incorporate the Memphis Motorsports Park, Gateway, the hopefully new MidContinent near Springfield, MO, Nashville Super Speedway, and Barber Motorsports.

Food for thought and I am not kidding; so flame away. I am so going to enjoy this.

[mustanghammer]

I also have to say that I agree with Travis as well.

The issue isn't just the number of events it is how closely spaced they are. Back to back events are killers and they force me to make a choice between events. All things being equal I will stay close to home if I can meet MIDAM and IT Tour requirements and get enough races in. So that means events at Memphis don't make my schedule if I can go to MAM, Hallet, HPT, MPH or STL instead (and like STL....allot). The only way to change this is to take away my option to choose. And yep - I have been to Memphis several times as Charlie Clarks tire buster and the BBQ was memorable.

Fewer dates and get more done on each weekend. This should generate better racing for the drivers and the workers. A win-win.

[shwah]

I personally don't like the idea of being a part of the SE division. The Mid-South region would have the same problem there as we do in the Midiv.

I propose a separation of part of the MidWest and SouthEast division and form the "East MidWest Divsion". It would incorporate the Mid-South, Mississippi, Arkansas, STL, Southern Illinois, Tennessee, Tennessee Valley, Alabama, and Ozark Mountaing regions. It would incorporate the Memphis Motorsports Park, Gateway, the hopefully new MidContinent near Springfield, MO, Nashville Super Speedway, and Barber Motorsports.

Food for thought and I am not kidding; so flame away. I am so going to enjoy this.

Make sure you have fully defined the problem you are trying to solve, and determined how this will help solve it. Don't do something like this 'because it seems like a good idea'. Take a look at the CenDiv GLDiv split for reference. The GLDiv club racing program took a significant hit after the split. I am not convinced that creating separate divisions (edited from 'regions' typo) will solve any of your problems, which seem to be worker and racer attendance related. Actually the concept of fewer events across the entire division seems like the simplest step to take to improve that situation.

[tnord]

I would support a redrawing of divisional lines, but would be firmly against adding another division. remember my whole thing about "slicing up the pie into smaller pieces?" that seems to be applicable here.

....and oh yeah, as Chris mentioned, we've tried this before with CenDiv/GLDiv. that didn't work out at all, and they should be rejoined.

[nsuracer]

I wish I had the magic answer to this problem. When I first joined SCCA in 65, it was my total social life. All my friends were in SCCA. I was a worker because everyone I knew was. Apparently things are not that way anymore. The new generation has other things to do. Perhaps more social events would feed the worker problem. AS to entrants: I spend 8m to 1k per weekend and I go cheap. That is rediculous. Those people with deep enough pockets to sustain that are getting older and dying off. Younger people who are starting careers and families just cant afford that.

Back in the days of Hutch, Ponca City and Lake Afton, regions did not have the track rentals to deal with. We have just about upgraded ourselves out of the market. We have too many classes. We have no spectators to help offset costs. Without some Draconian changes we are going to die.

AS to the schedule. One double regional per month, one double national per month. That is 12 races per year each, top 6 for points. That way a driver or worker can pick the events they want to go to. Drivers Schools. Must have at least one at the beginning of the season. Should be passed around to share the pain. The I.T. Tour is a great idea, but we got totally hosed at HPT. If we have 12 regionals available I.T. guys don't need it. OK, someone elses turn.

[tnord]

yes, things do change over 40 years.

i still stand by the philosophy that the path to prosperity is addition through subtraction. if you have fewer, but stronger events, it becomes more accessable to both workers and drivers, and raises enthusiasm for each event. 100+ car fields with more people in the paddock to drink and socialize with during the weekend is much more enticing to both existing and potential members.

phil does have the right idea on one thing though.....PDX and enduros at regionals. find a way for multiple drivers to share a car and the event becomes much more cost effecient for entrants. the biggest expense of the weekend is the vehicle/trailer/transportation/food to get to the event. if that can be cut in half across two drivers, all the better.

[nsuracer]

Travis, I cannot disagree with you. Getting all the other Regions/Racing Groups to agree is some times a challange. I was the Midiv Scheduling Rep in 74 and 75 and I can tell you that it is a real ballancing act to get a schedule hammered out. Everyone comes to the meeting with their own agenda.

Another thought on Scheduling. Being that the runoffs are now the Ice Follies, start the national season in March and the Regional season in May and run it thru October.

[tnord]

Travis, I cannot disagree with you. Getting all the other Regions/Racing Groups to agree is some times a challange. I was the Midiv Scheduling Rep in 74 and 75 and I can tell you that it is a real ballancing act to get a schedule hammered out. Everyone comes to the meeting with their own agenda.


Everyone I've ever talked to about scheduling says the same thing, and it's baffling to me why people can't see beyond their own nose. This is exactly why I continue to "hammer" on anyone who brings up adding more events, hoping they start to see the bigger picture of what's going on.

Solution? Divisional BOD or whomever should decide how big of a "bucket" of races will be allowed for the year, which would at least get everyone to the same starting point, and force them to work together.

[gottagofast13]

100% agree with Travis. The Midiv as a whole needs to:
- decide how many races/types there will be in 09
- take a look at the number and success of races in each region over the past couple years
- the group needs to agree on how many races each region will have (based on previous success)
- each region needs to figure out available dates from their local tracks
- finally, everyone sits down and schedule the races to avoid conflicts and back-to-back weekends

We need quality (of events) over quantity.

[IPRESS]

Well well well, it seems my friends have gotten into a bruhaha!

First things First.
Fireball Phil is always on my list of Workers of the Year. The guy is Mr. Memphis SCCA in my book. He and really all the Memphis crew make racing at MMP a blast. Not to say other places are unfriendly, but "the Memphis Mafia" has about the best "what can we do to help you" attitude in SCCA racing. I race there BECAUSE of THE PEOPLE. MMP is not on anyones 10 greatest road courses, but it is a fun, fairly easy (watch out that wall at Grant's Tomb doesn't move) to learn track. The people & food always make it worth the tow. It is only about 8 hours from my house but it is my HOME Region.

Next thing, Travis is as passionate as anybody about racing and all it's aspects. You got to love a guy who gets into a side of an issue and "has no give up". That is Tnord and he is good about backing his side with facts. Now his passion can come across as personal when he doesn't mean it to be that way (after you throw a beer or two back with him it is easier to recognize that for the most part he is an issue guy and a good drinking buddy and doesn't mean YOU but means THE ISSUE.) He is a true budget racer. He represents an age group I think SCCA needs to be trying to capture. No apathy from him. He will generally always pick a side and fight like hell. Don't let his direct approach cloud his message. He is a good thorn in SCCA's side.

The issues:
MidDiv is spread out and the population centers are spread out. As I think back to my last three years running MidDiv, I see that most folks run as close to home as possible. (This will only increase with economic restraints next year.) The workers seem to TRAVEL farther. At least I tend to see some of the same workers at different tracks. With tight $$$ times a head, I would expect that the need for more "local flavor" in worker base will be our biggest issue. On top of that racers may not tow as far as in the past.
Tnord has presented the side that less events will have several impacts. Higher car counts and more workers due to less other racing options. Good Points.
Phil has some good points also that are relevant. One is, in scheduling you are somewhat at the mercy of the faciliy (in this case MMP). If you choose not to use some dates you are subject to lose them as car clubs and other motorsport groups are track hungry these days. If you only have one or two SCCA events all year, your local worker base has few training / recruiting oppurtunties. Memphis is in a funny location and actually could serve as a hub of a seperate division. (I think Phil is going by where the racers come from for Memphis races.)
As I said above, (and I have raced at all but MAM) a few racers tow all over the Div, but most stick close to home. You can see that in the National, IT Tour, and MidAm points reports. The question is in the present economic climate will these racers TRAVEL if they don't have several events closer by? Will the guys in KC & NE & IA pack up and go south to MMP? Will the Memphis & ARKy's tow to MAM & Hastings?
I can't answer that question cause I am the idiot from Texas (with Motorsport Ranch two miles down the road from my house) that tows all over the Mid Div!
My (it may not be a solution) suggestion is to grab ideas from the most successful events around the SCCA world and try to have really high quality race weekends. Maybe a few less then in the past, but still plenty of chances to grab points and good times.
1. Hold event where more then two drivers can race one car. (ATL Region does this the best)
2. Figure out what your Region / Track has to sell and max that out. (ex. Memphis the friendliest easiest place to race, HPT table dance vouchers at Baby Dolls JUST KIDDING, STL maybe get 1/2 price Cardinal tickets for a night game after the races, Hallett has fireworks maybe the ARK Valley can expand it into a show, Hastings had great food when I went there that was worth the tow.)
3. Promote the ENDURO / PDX idea. (this goes together with #1) Enduros even the shorter ones can be money makers and are bigtime popular. 3HRs have been winners at RAtlanta for years.
4. Don't let the division split up north be the only thing you think of when considering what Phil proposed. There are many things to look at on this issue, but the idea has some merit.

I think there is a decent middle of the road solution on the issues, and hopefully all will be willing to meet and get it finalized before everyone in the middle gets run over by a tow truck going from Memphis to Hastings!

[nsuracer]

Mac, Why are you kidding about Baby Dolls?:D There are numerous reasons for why racers attend certain tracks. If you are trying to win the Mid-Am, you will go to all of them. If you are just trying to keep a license, you go to the closest track. I personally would like to see a smaller division so that I wouldn't have to tow so far. I would not advocate that or campaign for it because it is just my own personal preference.

Here is a radical idea that I am sure will go nowhere. Combine events with other organizations. That way we could all proselitize and may the best club win.

[tnord]

The question is in the present economic climate will these racers TRAVEL if they don't have several events closer by?

my answer is yes, within reason. i probably will never ever go to memphis. it's 10+ hours, and if i'm going to spend that much time and money towing that far, i'm going to Road America instead. looking at the preliminary schedule, i want to get at lest 6 MidAm races in this year, and I can't do it all at MAM and HPT, so yes....I will probably haul down to Hallett, or maybe even to STL.

[JIgou]

1. Mac, you really need to come visit us as MAM.

2. Ugh. Too many thoughts, too lazy to type them....but Travis is doing a good job in this discussion. And I've been inside the sausage factory on this whole scheduling and budgeting deal, if that's a requirement...

Jarrod

[Gary L]

Haven't seen anything elsewhere, but for the sake of convenience, here is an edited version of the 2009 MidDiv schedule that is currently on the SCCA National website. I realize this is probably very tentative at this point, but at least it's a starting point. And BTW, I simply retyped and reformatted what is on the national website... I do not have any details whatsoever on any of the events listed. (And neither does the national website, at least as of this date.)


Mar 14/15 - Memphis - National/National
Mar 28/29 - Gateway - Regional/National-IT Tour
Apr 04/05 - Hallett - Regional/National-IT Tour
Apr 18/19 - MAM - DS/DS-Regional
May 02/03 - HPT - National/National
May 30/31 - MAM - Regional/National-IT Tour
Jul 04/05 - Hallett - Regional/National-IT Tour
Jul 18/19 - Hastings - Regional/Regional
Aug 01/02 - Gateway - Regional/National-IT Tour
Aug 15/16 -MAM - Regional/National-IT Tour
Sep 05/06 - HPT - MidAm Double points Regl/Restricted Regl
Oct 24/25 - Gateway - Regional/Regional


For clarity, I obviously limited this to the regionals, nationals, and IT Tour events. There are also several PDX events listed at Gateway, and a Hillclimb in Drumright, Oklahoma (15-20 minutes south of Hallett) on April 25th.

[brprok81]

Haven't seen anything elsewhere, but for the sake of convenience, here is an edited version of the 2009 MidDiv schedule that is currently on the SCCA National website. I realize this is probably very tentative at this point, but at least it's a starting point. And BTW, I simply retyped and reformatted what is on the national website... I do not have any details whatsoever on any of the events listed. (And neither does the national website, at least as of this date.)


Mar 14/15 - Memphis - National/National
Mar 28/29 - Gateway - Regional/National-IT Tour
Apr 04/05 - Hallett - Regional/National-IT Tour
Apr 18/19 - MAM - DS/DS-Regional
May 02/03 - HPT - National/National
May 30/31 - MAM - Regional/National-IT Tour
Jul 04/05 - Hallett - Regional/National-IT Tour
Jul 18/19 - Hastings - Regional/Regional
Aug 01/02 - Gateway - Regional/National-IT Tour
Aug 15/16 -MAM - Regional/National-IT Tour
Sep 05/06 - HPT - MidAm Double points Regl/Restricted Regl
Oct 24/25 - MAM - Regional/Regional


For clarity, I obviously limited this to the regionals, nationals, and IT Tour events. There are also several PDX events listed at Gateway, and a Hillclimb in Drumright, Oklahoma (15-20 minutes south of Hallett) on April 25th.

The Oct 24/25 Regional/Regional is at Gateway.

[Gary L]

Thanks! Original post has been edited to show the correct venue.

[SLUF]

Looks almost official now.

http://sccaforums.com/linkthru.aspx?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.stlscca.org%2fP ortals%2f0%2fMIDIV.pdf

[tnord]

http://www.midiv.org/Code/Calendar_club.htm

well.....i'm back from a 3 week "vacation" with family/in-laws, and about a month of being distracted by shiny-new-thing-home-theater-stuff....but there's the schedule that's up on the MiDiv site.

by god it looks like they got it about as close to right as i could hope for. i only see one back-to-back weekend, and at least that's at opposite corners of the division. as much as i hate it, if i want to get 6 MiDiv races in, i'm going to have to travel to Memphis or St Louis. given the 3.5hr vs 10hr tow, i think i'll take STL at the end of october if it turns out i need it, or care about points by that time.

anybody know how this is going to work out with the Bonus race not being the last regional weekend of the year? will you have to have 4 MiDiv races by that time for it to count for double points, or just 4 by the end of the year? i'm thinking that would be #4 for me, then if i get the urge, i'll go to STL in Oct for #5 and #6.

[Gary L]

anybody know how this is going to work out with the Bonus race not being the last regional weekend of the year? will you have to have 4 MiDiv races by that time for it to count for double points, or just 4 by the end of the year?
The way I read it, you must have the 4 races done before the bonus race. But beyond that, it's sorta screwed up anyway: the Mid-Am regs (at least as currently posted on the MidDiv site) state very clearly that the Bonus Race must be held after the National Runoffs. That isn't the way the schedule is currently stacked.



4.3 Bonus Race The Mid-Am Bonus Race will be designated by the Midwest Division Executive Committee and scheduled on a date after the National Championship Runoffs. To qualify for bonus points in a given class, a competitor must have earned points in that class at a minimum of four Mid-Am series races during the calendar year prior to the Bonus Race. The Bonus Race may be the only race conducted for Mid-Am points on that weekend’s race program.WRT back-to-back weekends (St Louis & Hallett)... damn it man! I was originally thinking about running the complete IT Tour this year. Now maybe not so much. :(

[tnord]

the regs posted up on the site right now say 2008, so hopefully they can come up with something to fit the situation this year.

[Gary L]

Oops. You're right... I read it as the current year, no matter what it actually says. Glad I don't have to date checks anymore!