ITR Prelude build thread

[ekim952522000]

I love reading build threads and since I am building my new car I though I would start one.

I was going to build a Type R but felt like the Prelude was a better choice so right at the last minute before I was going to take the Type R to get the cage I changed my mind.

I just got home with the car about a hour ago after driving 8 hours round trip to go get it. So I will post more pictures as I start to do work to it.

[JoshS]

Whoo-hoo, can't wait! Let me know if I can help, I want to see you out on track!

Nice job finding white. I wish I'd been able to find white when I bought my Z3 to build.

[lateapex911]

That donor is too nice!

Can you sell the interior and stuff for a profit? I know, it's not ITB, the IT class with a guaranteed profit, LOL>

[ekim952522000]

Man the interior was so nice in this car I kinda felt bad pulling it out. This took me about 8 hours today and I still have a ways to go to get it ready for the cage, I still have to pull up all of the tar mat. take out the A/C and take out the cruise control.

[R2 Racing]

Make sure you take anything and everything out that you possibly can. Our ITS Prelude weighs about 2600lbs with a 200lb driver (~50lbs over legal ITS weight), and I'm out of ideas on where to remove weight without sacrificing safety. There's a lot of weight under/inside the dashboard, and removing the entire ABS system will save a lot of weight too. The stock sunroof panel is heavy as hell. Replace it with a thin steel sheet.

[ekim952522000]

Thanks Kevin that is the plan, I am planning on removing everything I legally can and then weighting and seeing where I am at, I am hoping I don't have to remove the undercoating to make weight. Right no I am about 215lbs So I need to go on a diet to0 =)

[ekim952522000]

Ok so I picked up a engine tonight H22A1 and I was soooo Impressed I found a used honda engine that the TPS sensor was not broke....Well I broke the dam thing taking it out of the truck...

Oh and I discovered that Honda strategically placed the hood prop on the prelude so that you would catch it with your elbow and the hood would coming slamming down on your head....

Now I just need to find a transmission....

[ekim952522000]

Ok so today I finished taking out the tar mat (Dry Ice made very short work of it only took about 30 min) Plan is to finish up the interior tomorrow, then sunday take out the A/C and cruise control I've got to hurry it is scheduled to get the cage installed in about two weeks and I won't have time to work on it after this weekend.

[ekim952522000]

Here is two more pictures the last two "boring car being stripped ones" I will have until the cage is put in.

oh yeah and I have finally started ordering parts!

[ekim952522000]

Some teasers pics from the beginning of the cage build.

I am also ready to order springs but have no idea what length to get for a prelude?

[quadzjr]

I have always been a fan of gettign your shocks in .. setting the car at your ride height.. measure the space between the top sring perch and the lower one.. in the middle of it's adjustment. With known approximate corner weight of the car.. you can determine the staic deflection of the car sitting still. Finally you can order a spring that will fit your needs and allow the most adjustment. I am sure there are easier ways to determine the free length of a spring to use.

[Chip42]

mike - looks good.

make sure you pull the computer off the floor to make a spot for the 8th cage point. and don't tie the petty bar in there, please!

call ground control about the spring size - they have more data avaiable than anyone else I can think of.

oh - and TPS safety: when moving or installing engines, always unbolt the throttle body and place it somewhere safe, those things are fragile and love to break! you can notch the "rivets" with a cutoff tool and extract them with a screwdriver (they are break-off head screws) and replace with just about any other honda TPS of the same vintage - makes those CX civics in the junkyard worthwhile. helps to have a hondata computer or simillar where you can reprogram WOT/closed positions, though as they will change electrically.

[JoshS]

oh - and TPS safety: when moving or installing engines, always unbolt the throttle body and place it somewhere safe, those things are fragile and love to break! you can notch the "rivets" with a cutoff tool and extract them with a screwdriver (they are break-off head screws) and replace with just about any other honda TPS of the same vintage - makes those CX civics in the junkyard worthwhile. helps to have a hondata computer or simillar where you can reprogram WOT/closed positions, though as they will change electrically.

Now, I'm not a Honda guy, but I don't understand. First, why would you want to change the throttle body, and second, why would that be legal in IT?

[Z3_GoCar]

Now, I'm not a Honda guy, but I don't understand. First, why would you want to change the throttle body, and second, why would that be legal in IT?

Ja, I love it if we could change out for a Porsche AFM, they're both Bosch unit's after all :blink:

[R2 Racing]

He's not talking about changing the whole throttle body, just the TPS. The TPS can get damaged pretty easily during an engine install, so it's not a real bad idea to remove it. But to remove it, you have to remove the entire throttle body since the TPS is "riveted" onto the backside of it. Once you've got it out, you can notch the "rivet" heads and spin them out, removing the TPS from the throttle body. Now replace those "rivets" with actual bolts, and you have the ability to swap out TPS's easily. Now you can use used TPS's from any Honda that's been removed in the same fashion. That's important because on many Honda's, you can't buy just the TPS, you have to buy the whole throttle body. Nothing illegal going on, just swapping fasteners. Same throttle body, same TPS.

[Chip42]

thanks for translating into bosch for me, kevin.

[Z3_GoCar]

thanks for translating into bosch for me, kevin.

Actually, if it's the TPS (as in sensor) that is free. It's the TB that's more sensitive, along with the AFM. We have choke points that we want to stay, beause that limits the ultimate power, which make the process as close as it is....

[Chip42]

Actually, if it's the TPS (as in sensor) that is free. It's the TB that's more sensitive, along with the AFM. We have choke points that we want to stay, beause that limits the ultimate power, which make the process as close as it is....

all of this is understood, I would never advocate the swapping of TBs in IT or any other controlled class. sorry if I gave that impression.

the position of the TPS on the firewall side of the throttle body makes it prone to dameage by the rear cross member etc... when removing and installing motors, and is the rear-most part of the removed engine so not much protection then, either. to protect the TPS, the honda knowledgable pull the TB and set it asside for safety.

As the TBs are so frequently damaged, and the electrical calibrations affected when swapping sensors and using stock computers (WOT/closed signal changes do to small position or manufacturing tolerance changes), the swap of the TPS is not always the best solution - though one that is available when the damage has been done.

back to the prelude...

[ekim952522000]

All sorts of cool stuff came today!

[ekim952522000]

I tried to get pictures of the adjusters on my new Schrotch enduro belts they are amazing! I have never seen any harnesses that adjust like them, they even come with a little loop already sewn in incase you want to use the surgical tubing to lift them out of the way during driver changes. They also have nice large hoops sewn in for tightening them very high quality.

[type r rocket]

I know what santa is bringing us since our belts on our enduro car are done.Very nice.

[ekim952522000]

Well not to much happening with the holidays I got my transmission in today it was hard to find the correct one for the 93-96 vtec, but I found a nice one and it already has a Quafie LSD installed.

I'm also very happy the ITAC fixed the specs for the vtec preludes in ITR.

[ekim952522000]

So I am doing some brain storming and some measuring of the car and it looks like I might be able to fit the 275/35R15's up front but no way in the back. I don't want to buy custom wheels right now so I am trying to decide between

Option # 1
245/40R17's on a 17 x 8.5" wheel.

Pros:
It looks like it can be run front and back, (I will be confirming this in the next couple weeks).
The 245/40 is a very common size offered by every manufacturer I have checked which makes for lots of tire choices.
17 x 8.5" is a readily available wheel size.

Cons:
Tire is 24.7 inches tall so about .8" taller than stock.
Not as wide as the 275.



Option # 2
275/35R15 up front on a 15X8 with a 225 on a 15 x 8 in the back?

pros:
Wider fronts then the 245's
Shorter tire 23" might not even need to buy a final drive with a tire this short.

Cons:
Cannot find a off the shelf 15x8.5"
I cannot rotate them and even the 15 x 8 wheels are harder to come by then the 17x8.5's

What would you guys do? Are the 275's squeezed onto the 8" wheel even worth it? I am thinking the 245 on the 8.5" wheel might be better, but don't know.

[lateapex911]

For lots of reasons, I think option 1 is better. Especially as there is doubt about the effectiveness of shoving a 275 on an 8" rim...

[Chip42]

Mike - typically, it's just easier to have 4 matching tires under the thing. also, the shorter tire is nicer like a final drive, but typically nowhere near as drastic.

examples: (vs 205/55R15 w/4.06 FD as from facory) - % effect, positive is akin to a higher numeric FD number.
205/55R15 w/ 4.64 FD (king, etc..): 12.5%
225/45R15 w/ factory FD: 3.8%
245/40R17 w/ factory FD: -3.5%
245/50R15 w/ factory FD: -3.2%
245/50R15 w/ 4.64 FD: 9.7%
225/45R15 w/ 4.64 FD: 15.8%
225/45R15 w/ factory FD: 3.8%

these numbers are not at all exact - BUT, it looks like you would still want the 4.64 FD, and switch between 245/50R15 and 225/45R15 (if both fit the car...) for ratio changes at different tracks. you can fit them on 15x8 OR 15x7 wheels (snug for the 245s).

just my $0.02

[Xian]

#1 sounds easier while #2 will likely be faster (even more so if you get some custom 15x8.5's). With the amount of front weight your car will have plus the power output, I'd think you'd want to shove on as much tire as possible up front, run smaller tires in the back to cut down on push, and then balance the car with rear spring/bar and camber. D-Stock Type-R autcrossers have seen grip advantages running the 275's on a 6" wide wheel... is an 8" wide wheel ideal? Nope, but if it's the best you can do, then I'd just go with it.

Some additional food for thought is that you wouldn't really need an 8" wide wheel in the back... you could run easy to find 15x7's in the rear with 225/45's. This means you really only need one set of 15x8's up front to try this setup out and see how it works.

Christian

[ekim952522000]

hmmmm... decisions decisions one other problem with the the 275's is they are only available from hoosier the other size makes for way more choices in brand.

I probably won't be making this one until the last minute but thanks for the input guys every different view helps.

[ekim952522000]

hmmm first weight in with out any interior and just the roll hoop puts the car at 2430lbs:eek:

So I need to get the car to 2370 (2570 - 200 = 2370)

already 60lbs over and this was without the cage, dash, seat, harness, fire system, accusump, larger VTEC model brakes, larger rear sway bar, sunroof cover, gauges, etc...

all I have left to take out is the A/C compressor, stock exhaust, and ABS, new wheels will save about 20lbs. (so how much weight does that undercoating save again?)lol

That 2570 is looking hard to make will see what happens when I am all done.

[Xian]

Well... have you removed:

Sound deadening (25-30#'s)
Hood latch and cable
AC wiring (condenser already out?)
Cruise control and wiring
Stereo wiring
Sunroof assembly/wiring/switch/etc
Hand brake and cables

The wiring work up above should save you about 5-7#'s. Rear bar can be hollow... may not weigh more than stock. Any chance at a hollow front bar? Your new exhaust and header sounds like another great place to save some weight... go as light and short as possible. Re-plumbing the brakes without the ABS should also net some significant weight savings. A fuel cell is another place to save some weight. Cage construction will also be a great place to focus on strong but light.

Christian, who ended up with a bunch of this type of crap going into his car... the small savings add up.

[JoshS]

Well... have you removed ... Cruise control and wiring?

That's legal because of some sort of update/backdate/model conversion? Because it's not generally legal in IT as far as I can tell.

[ekim952522000]

That's legal because of some sort of update/backdate/model conversion? Because it's not generally legal in IT as far as I can tell.

Crap I took out the cruise control? I threw it away, but I don't see it in the rules I thought I read that. Darn it now I have to go buy a cruise control unit.:blink:

EDIT: yup I see I got mixed up with the Honda Challenge rules so I guess I will be going to a junk yard and getting a cruise control unit. That is another reason I started this thread to point out if I do anything illegal accidently. Thanks Josh.

EDIT2: 20 bucks on EBAY no big =)

[ekim952522000]

Cage is done, and the seat is mounted I thought I would throw some pics up for you guys before I painted it. Mike Lock at Calculated Risk did the cage and did a Amazing job. There were allot of design challenges do to me being 6'2" tall.

[ekim952522000]

We also had to pay attention and make sure the cage was SCCA and NASA legal. Oh yeah and the tubing is 1.75 x .095.

[ekim952522000]

Got the dash fitted tonight not very exciting but since the 92-96 prelude dash is one my favorite dashes I thought I would throw up a picture

[ekim952522000]

So got 99% of the interior painted going to do some touch up this weekend.

Has anyone tried that Lamin-x cage film stuff I am trying to avoid my cage getting all scratched up like it did on my last car?

Also anyone have any ideas for the drivers feet area to stop it from looking like crap? Right now I am probably going to do a aluminum diamond plate "floor mat" any other ideas?

[Jeremy Billiel]

Looks good Mike. I am really curious to see how you do in this car. Should be a blast to drive.

[Knestis]

I had diamond plate in my first car but ditched it in the rebuild to safe a pound or two. I use skateboard tape now. Put it on fresh paint and it really sticks.

K

[JeffYoung]

Kirk, what is skateboard tape and, as an old fart about to turn 40, am I cool enough to use it?

Seriously, did it work for you? Link to whatever this stuff is?

Thanks.

And P.S. -- MIke that Lude looks awesome. I always liked the looks of those cars -- hid the fact that the drivetrain was all backwards and stuff quite well...lol......

Good work on that thing.

[lateapex911]

Skateboard tape is adhesive backed sandpaper, if you will. Also known as non slip tape. (I'm surprised a Lawyer doesn't know this. The lack of it in certain areas can be considered negligence and can win suits!)

Go to BLowes or Home Dspot and look for it. Comes 2" wide or more I think.

I too have no love for the diamond plate stuff.

[ekim952522000]

...

And P.S. -- MIke that Lude looks awesome. I always liked the looks of those cars -- hid the fact that the drivetrain was all backwards and stuff quite well...lol......

Good work on that thing.

LOL. I always thought they looked like a RWD supra. =)


Looks good Mike. I am really curious to see how you do in this car. Should be a blast to drive.

I think it is gonna be a blast to drive will see how it does in ITR.

I am planning to have this one finished by end of march then I will be starting a ITS prelude for my wife (well we are getting married in January).

[quadzjr]

Kirk, what is skateboard tape and, as an old fart about to turn 40, am I cool enough to use it?

Seriously, did it work for you? Link to whatever this stuff is?


You can find bigger strips of tape from seaching for "grip tape". Which is what it is refred to in the skateboarding world. You can usually find it in single pieces to cover an enitre skate board.

If you have a local skate shop, surf shop, bike shop, or sports shop they might have it in stock, and could help you out.

[jrvisual]

Skateboard tape is much tougher than the adhesive sandpaper you can get at the home improvement store. Think super thick, super adhesive, 20 grit sandpaper. Usually comes in sheets about 10" x 30". 2 sheets would do a floor board. Around $10 per sheet.

If you don't have a local skate shop or just don't want to deal with the punks that run them, google skateboard griptape and you will get hundreds of online sources as many color choices.

[ekim952522000]

Lots of cool stuff came today.
:)

[quadzjr]

Lots of cool stuff came today.
:)

I like shiny things...

[ekim952522000]

The Koni's are pretty!

I was surprised though that the shocks did not come with a shock dyno print out.

[quadzjr]

Who did you get them through? Lee? From my past expereinces, I am just used to asking for it with my shocks just to avoid the confusion. Certain companies always will send you a dyno plot (when I used to run Ohlins for example). some I question if they even test them after rebuilding them..

[ekim952522000]

Ok so I pulled the engine out and ripped out all the ABS stuff now I just need to paint and clean up the engine compartment. (oh yeah and that run all new brake lines thing...)

I got all the wiring and interior back in and all the paper pulled off from painting.

I am always amazed how much harder a Prelude is to work on than a Integra If you got rid of everything that's says Honda on the car I would bet they were made by a different company =)

Oh yeah and I was very happy the ABS unit weighted about 30lbs!