Pit Fire Incident at VIR????

[krysdean]

I received an e-mail this morning (10/27/2008) that alluded to a pit fire incident at VIR this past weekend, I know nothing about it and I am not comfortable making the wholesale changes suggested until I know what happened and get some feedback from the competitors. If anyone can give me any information I would appreciate it. While we are on the subject, how do YOU, the competitors think we could improve fire safety in the pits?

Krys Dean
ECR Series Chief Steward, South

[Knestis]

>> ...I am not comfortable making the wholesale changes suggested ...

What wholesale changes are suggested?

K

[Ron Earp]

I was at VIR this weekend but did not witness the pit fire.

I have worked in the pits though for many ECRs and four times at the VIR 13 Hour enduro. I share your concern for pit safety - none of us was want to be injured in the pits for any reason, but fire is a particularly dangerous hazard for obvious reasons. I think that fire safety should be number one on any competitors’ list of concerns when planning out a pit strategy and I also feel the pit stewards should be extremely diligent about fire safety.

But workers and stewards need to be aware of impediments to fire safety that the racers face.

I know one of the big concerns is fuel spillage in the pit area. Some spillage can be avoided simply by reducing human errors with fueling equipment. But our equipment, mandated by the class rules, also contributes to some of the fueling problems.

During ECRs and longer enduros Spec Miatas and SRFs are the most common cars you’ll find on the grid. But SMs must have a stock fuel filler neck with no additional air bleeds nor a dry break connector. The car is either fueled with a bottle and funnel or via a tube device connected to a bottle. Either method will generally result in some spillage, how much depends largely upon the skill of the person doing the fueling. If it were legal to fit a dry break system many competitors would do so although that would add additional cost to the car.

Many of the other cars running ECRs are in the Improved Touring cars class with these vehicles it is permissible to run stock fuel tanks or fuel cells. Either way the fueling procedure is largely the same – a bottle and funnel or some sort of bottle with tube. Basically about the same as an SM car and the results will be similar – some fuel will be spilled.

I think the majority of racers would love to improve the fire safety of their pit area but given the tools most of us are working with, stock tanks, funnels, and bottles, we’re doing pretty well from a safety standpoint.

Increasing the mandatory pit time might help some because the team would have less pressure to fuel the car as quickly as possible.

As Kirk mentioned, what are the suggested changes?

[Mike Mackaman]

I was there too, in the pits the first hour of the Saturday ECR, and all of the CCPS. Didn't see any fire, didn't hear about one while I was on course or after the Sunday race. Everyone played pretty nice as far as I saw. I commented to several people that I saw more good sportsmanship this weekend than I have seen in a while. I made it through the weekend without making contact with anyone or anything. And I did not see nearly the carnage that I have in years past.

If you know about how much fuel to put in, it makes it a lot easier to put it in cleanly. If you are trying to "get it full" you will spill some.

Mike

[RacerBowie]

I received an e-mail this morning (10/27/2008) that alluded to a pit fire incident at VIR this past weekend, I know nothing about it and I am not comfortable making the wholesale changes suggested until I know what happened and get some feedback from the competitors. If anyone can give me any information I would appreciate it. While we are on the subject, how do YOU, the competitors think we could improve fire safety in the pits?

Krys Dean
ECR Series Chief Steward, South

Cameron tells me he saw an IT7 catch fire, but it was in the engine compartment, and NOT related to fueling at all. Was there another fire?

[krysdean]

After a little more investigation, it turns out that there was no fire, but rather some concern from the officials that some of our practices are not safe, specifically it was pointed out that the fueler, his helper/catch can person/funnel holder AND the poerson holding the fire extenguisher should ALL be completely dressed in both fire suit and helmet with balaclava, it was pointed out theat fuel fumes can travel 8 to 10 feet in no time, I am not sure that most teams can afford to have three people kitted out, but it would be a good idea. They also wanted another 10 lb AB or ABC bottle or one 20lb ab or abc bottle. I have a little bit of experience with fire and AB fire extinguisher compound, in my opinion, if we are going to add a fire extenguisher to the 10 lb we already require it should be something other than an AB or ABC, preferably a "Cold Fire" bottle. AB or ABC bottles are OK for gasoline, and will do for electrical, but are almost useless on fiberglass and other composite materials, and the clean up is an absolute nightmare. How do you guys feel about these proposals? You are the ones who have to pay for it and you are the ones at risk.


As far as going to dry break systems, I don't see that happening, it is just to expensive for most racers and the cars we are racing simply don't lend themselves to that kind of equipment.

I will promise you this, this season in the South part of SEDIV, I will make it a point to talk about fire safety at every drivers meeting and we WILL be enforcing whatever rules we come up with this year. We will be concentrating on making our sport as safe and fun as we possible can.


Krys Dean, ECR Chief Steward, South

[seckerich]

With all due respect this is much to do about nothing. Some email eluded to a serious fire that evidently did not happen that is now cause for more cost and regulation? Get the actual pit report that would be filed with the stewards if there actually was a fire and then see if action is necessary.

[Knestis]

...and it would be a good idea to coordinate any changes in regulations with the regions that run longer enduros (NCR, 13 Hours; WDC, Summit 12; Longest Day; now Atl Region, etc.) and the Kumho Endurance Series organizers. A patchwork of different regulations only increases the chance that someone will make a mistake, while costing teams more than might be necessary.

K

[dickita15]

Up here in the northeast we do not require the person with the bottle to be in full nomex, just long sleeves long pants closed shoes. It used to say just the fueler had to have a fire suit but when we noticed a girl with a tank top holding the funnel we changed it to anyone who is over the wall and part of the fueling process has to have a fire suit. I do not see why the fire bottle guy has to be dressed any more that a flagger.

[Ron Earp]

the fueler, his helper/catch can person/funnel holder AND the poerson holding the fire extenguisher should ALL be completely dressed in both fire suit and helmet with balaclava

This is going to be a problem for a lot of folks driving ECRs. It is hard enough to scare up pit help for an ECR and usually that pit help is another driver - who is already suited up. But if we have to have an additional person suited up then many drivers will be hard pressed to get the minimum crew persons in proper attire.

[iambhooper]

Krys,

I have run 3-4 ECR's per year since I started racing in 2004, and crewed the Charge of the Headlight Brigade 5 times as both fueler and fire extingusher. I believe that fire safety is of the upmost importance. When my team runs in an ECR, we approach the refuling situation as follows: the driver entering the car operates the extingusher, while the one just out of the car fuels. This ensures several things: 1) all people across the wall have fires suits on, 2) the driver entering the car is minimizing his exposure to spilled gas as he is at a safe distance with the extinguisher.

If teams are shorthanded, there are generally enough people in fire suits, that a team could borrow a helping hand in a fix.

It is the responsibility of the Region to provide a suitable number of cold fire bottles on pit road, both manned and stationary. Cold fire is not in my budget, period.

[Greg Amy]

I do not see why the fire bottle guy has to be dressed any more that a flagger.
Only because the fire bottle/safety gal has a significantly higher probability of having to deal with a liquid-fueled fire; after all, that's their promary role. On the other hand, corner workers rarely find themselves in any fire situation, let alone a gasoline fire.

Personally, if I were "manning" the fuel-safety fire bottle on a fueling pit stop, I'd be significantly more likely to interject myself into a fire situation when clothed in full fire gear, than I would if I were in jeans and cotton sleeves. I suggest anyone involved in the safety and/or fueling situation should have full fire-retardant gear, including eye protection.

For comparison, Koni Challenge requires EVERYONE over the wall, regardless of role, to have fire and eye protection during pit stops (no helmets, yet). And they all have quick-release dry-break fire systems (though a team demonstrated at Miller that that's not always a catch-all situation...) - GA

[Super Swift]

This “incident” was caused when a pit lane Fire Worker forced teams to replace their Fire Bottle Person with a person in full Nomex. Teams explained to the Fire Worker that he was acting contrary to the ECR rules.

He said he would see to it that the rules would be changed by the next race.

We have been racing the ECR series since the inception (1990±) with the same rule in effect and have never seen a problem. I remember a fire in (2000±) at Road Atlanta where the current rule set was implemented perfectly. (I think the car even received the checker)

It seems unfair to compare the Pro series as they have NO minimum pit time and I do not recall their requirement to have a Fire Bottle Person over the wall on ready.

Leave the Rule alone!



Ben Robertson

[Team SSR]

We don't need to refuel for 1 1/2 hour ECR (so we don't). Do the majority of the cars actually have to add fuel, or is it just added during the race for weight reasons?

[Mazmarc63]

This “incident” was caused when a pit lane Fire Worker forced teams to replace their Fire Bottle Person with a person in full Nomex. Teams explained to the Fire Worker that he was acting contrary to the ECR rules.

He said he would see to it that the rules would be changed by the next race.

We have been racing the ECR series since the inception (1990±) with the same rule in effect and have never seen a problem. I remember a fire in (2000±) at Road Atlanta where the current rule set was implemented perfectly. (I think the car even received the checker)

It seems unfair to compare the Pro series as they have NO minimum pit time and I do not recall their requirement to have a Fire Bottle Person over the wall on ready.

Leave the Rule alone!



Ben Robertson

Exactly what Ben said. I too have been running the ECR series since 1994. In that time, I have seen a total of one pit stop fire. I happened to be changing tires on that car at Road Atlanta. The fire was quickly extinguished, the pit stop was completed and the car continued.

Nothing is broken. Leave the rule alone.

Hey Greg, I think you mis-spoke here: On the other hand, corner workers rarely find themselves in any fire situation, let alone a gasoline fire.

I have extinguished more fires as a corner worker than I have ever seen during any pit stop or paddock experiment. I've even been on TV doing it.:happy204:

[JeffYoung]

Yes, we have to refuel the Z to make an hour and a half. Some SMs have to refuel too, 1.5 hours is right at the limit of their endurance.


We don't need to refuel for 1 1/2 hour ECR (so we don't). Do the majority of the cars actually have to add fuel, or is it just added during the race for weight reasons?

[BruceG]

Seems like some folks need to get their facts straight before creating a hornet's nest. Didn't this thread start with a "alleged" pit fire?

[JeffYoung]

It was huge! A fireball that could be seen in Milton! We all died!

[tim240z]

More fuel for the fire (Pun intended :p )

This thread gave me flashbacks to one of the 12 hour races at Homestead. I was the fueler for Guy Marvin and Greg Ira in their #33 240z. We got the word from Charles Perry (third driver) that the car had almost no brakes and needed to come in for an immediate unscheduled pit stop. As many of you know you’re allowed to fuel the vehicle while wrenching on the opposite side of the car so it was a "perfect" opportunity to do the front brake swap. Well as it turns out the piston had popped out of the caliper spewing very hot brake fluid over an area rich in hot tire rubber and an EXTREMLY hot brake rotor. Needless to say we got flames. Meanwhile I’m holding the jug of gas filling the fuel cell through a giant funnel (not very efficient and can be very messy.) Luckily I was able to halt the fill and back away from the car as the fire was contained and extinguished before reaching fuel vapors.

[Greg Amy]

Hey Greg, I think you mis-spoke here: On the other hand, corner workers rarely find themselves in any fire situation, let alone a gasoline fire.

I have extinguished more fires as a corner worker than I have ever seen during any pit stop or paddock experiment. I've even been on TV doing it.:happy204:
Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, too...? ;)

No, I didn't mis-speak.

Your fires as a corner worker were - what? - electrical fires, engine oil fires, grass fires, maybe Fiberglas bodywork fires? Never a spewing/spilling fuel fire, right? Ever "seen" a pit lane spewed-gasoline fire, from someone spilling fuel all over the place and it ignites? I have, several times. It ain't pretty. Imagine fuel splashing out of a fuel filler - especially one that's not a dry break so it's not contained - and spilling onto the fire bottle guy who's wearing an absorbent cotton long-sleeve t-shirt. Now imagine the fuel on the car catching fire due to hitting the hot exhaust (that exact scenario happened this past June at the Summit 12). Now imagine a ball of fire expanding outwards to consume the fuel fumes, lighting up any and all gasoline it can find. Including what's on that cotton t-shirt.

The thing here is, you may think the risks of a fire happening in the pits are low; I disagree, I think we've just been lucky. But, significantly more importantly, the damage that a gasoline fire in the pits can/will cause if it does happen are enormous. And if all it takes to minimize that damage is that someone with a fire bottle has to wear a Nomex suit and safety glasses - especially given than a shiiteload of driver suits are about to become available real damn cheap due to the new SFI requirements - I really don't see how this is a show-stopper, or, really, nothing but a no-brainer...

In my opinion, we've been lucky. Let's keep hoping we continue to be so...

[seckerich]

[quote=Greg Amy;275869]Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, too...? ;)


No Greg, he actually worked more Daytona 24 and Rolex races than most people have watched on TV. :blink:

[Greg Amy]

No Greg, he actually worked more Daytona 24 and Rolex races than most people have watched on TV. :blink:
Ah, OK! didn't know that. That settles it, working corners at the Daytona 24 trumps my pitlane fueling safety concerns.

Greg

(P.S., just curious: what are the pit lane requirements vis-a-vis safety equipment for fuelers and fire bottle personnel during the Daytona 24 Hours/Rolex events...?)

[seckerich]

No Greg, I was just pointing out your mocking comment about his experience was a little off.

We wear full nomex with the entire crew and fueler and fire bottle must have helmets with shield down at all times. No fueling can start until fire bottle holder has 2 feet on the ground.

I would personally not fuel or hold the bottle without my fire gear. Anyone who feels as you do should do the same. If someone likes fire in a T shirt Darwin will take over for us.

[Mazmarc63]

Haa, haa, haa. Haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn in a while. ;) I was just responding to your any fire comment.

You are correct. Most, if not all the fires I have responded to as a worker were gearbox and/or engine oil fire related.

The pit fire during the ECR at RA had some interesting details. It was a pro team with an overhead fuel rig that had a trigger nozzel for a stock filler neck. The tank filled quickly and some spillage occured. A few drips on a hot exhaust and - poof. No panic, it was rapidly extinguished and the car continued.

I would agree that we have probably been lucky that there hasn't been a really bad incident involving a fuel fire. Having said that, in my 0.0% worth of an opinion, I don't believe there is a need for a rule change.

[JamesB]

From the Grand-Am rules, applies to rolex and koni.




9-5.8 Pit Equipment –
Uniforms – All crewmembers must wear clean uniforms, at all times during practice,
qualifying and races. Tank tops, short pants and other inappropriate attire will not be
permitted in the hot pit area. Whenever a car is in the pits, crewmembers, industry
representatives and all other individuals over the pit wall must wear a full-fire resistant
suit on their exterior (see fueling regulations). Fuelers and fire bottle men must also wear
gloves, Balaclava and eye protection during fueling.

9-5.11 Each race car pit must have a fully charged 10lb. fire extinguisher present at all times.

[jmark]

I gotta agree with Greg. I have been the fire bottle guy for some GA Cup/GT races. Full nomex, balaclava, eye protection etc. I would not consider it without protection & if I every stop shooting pics and do it for some of my Z car buddies during an ECR I'll wear my nomex there too. It is cheap insurance and I suspect you would be more apt to fight the fire if fully protected. I think the ECR's have been very lucky.

[Greg Amy]

No Greg, I was just pointing out your mocking comment about his experience was a little off.
I never intended to "mock" anyone's worker experience. I was simply pointing out the differences between working a corner and working fire safety in the pits...

GregA, former National F&C license holder, proud former member of the Texas Turn Marshals and Racer Chasers (http://www.texasscca.org/racechas.html). Still have the (cotton) suit with patches...

[callard]

I've been running enduros since 1990 and have seen various sets of pit rules involving refueling. We had a committee writing some standardized rules several years ago with the goal of getting them posted in the GCR. If you believe that this is appropriate, we should start a new thread and work on standardized rules to submit to the CRB and BoD.
Regards,
Chuck Allard

[John Nesbitt]

... Ever "seen" a pit lane spewed-gasoline fire, from someone spilling fuel all over the place and it ignites? I have, several times. It ain't pretty. Imagine fuel splashing out of a fuel filler - especially one that's not a dry break so it's not contained - and spilling onto the fire bottle guy who's wearing an absorbent cotton long-sleeve t-shirt. Now imagine the fuel on the car catching fire due to hitting the hot exhaust (that exact scenario happened this past June at the Summit 12). Now imagine a ball of fire expanding outwards to consume the fuel fumes, lighting up any and all gasoline it can find. Including what's on that cotton t-shirt.

The thing here is, you may think the risks of a fire happening in the pits are low; I disagree, I think we've just been lucky. But, significantly more importantly, the damage that a gasoline fire in the pits can/will cause if it does happen are enormous. And if all it takes to minimize that damage is that someone with a fire bottle has to wear a Nomex suit and safety glasses - especially given than a shiiteload of driver suits are about to become available real damn cheap due to the new SFI requirements - I really don't see how this is a show-stopper, or, really, nothing but a no-brainer...

In my opinion, we've been lucky. Let's keep hoping we continue to be so...

I was a Black Flag steward at the 12Hr, and was standing one foot behind the fire bottle guy for the pit stop to which Greg refers.

There was fuel flying widely before it reached something hot and ignited. Some of the fuel splashed me. If you have not seen one of these things, you would be astonished at the size and violence of the fireball.

Luckily, there were two other manned fire bottles immediately at hand, in addition to the team's fire bottle, and the fire was quickly extinguished.

Greg is right: we have been lucky so far. Greg is also right that anyone over the wall involved in refueling should be fully kitted out.

The other point to emphasize is that this is not pro racing, where dry break systems tend to be the norm, and crews practice beforehand. This is amateur club racing, with a wide spectrum of equipment and skill. We should be aiming to fail safe.

[jjjanos]

Cost of getting a nomex suit + goggles + headgear at a race track full of people who are equipped with a nomex suit? Pretty darn low given that they cannot be using them right then.

Cost of 2nd or 3rd degree burns? Ouch.

I'm thinking that if the people who have dry-break systems and who practice refueling (i.e. far less likely to experience a fire) are required to wear protection, then there's probably a good reason for it...

[NutDriverRighty]

Have to agree with Mr. JJJanos' statement about nomex being available for stops. I firmly believe that the best way to avoid catastrophe is to plan for it and be prepared for it before it happens. With this in mind, I must say that all of the planning, equipment, training, etc. will not prevent pit fires. One of the worst I can remember is the Benneton (sorry for the spelling) F1 team at Hockenheim in (IIRC) 1994 fueling Jos Verstappen's car. This was during the first season that pit stops had come back to F1. There was a jam in the dry break rig and his fueler and the pit went up like a Molotov cocktail. However, IIRC the fueler only got burns on his wrists and ankles.

Just a note of sick humor: When working corners, we refer to anything worn that isn't 100% cotton or some fire resistant/retardant material as "shrink wrap".

Scott Franklin
www.NutDriver.org (http://www.NutDriver.org)

[krysdean]

"Seems like some folks need to get their facts straight before creating a hornet's nest. Didn't this thread start with a "alleged" pit fire?"

Seems like some folks need to read the post before spouting off. This thread started as a question because I had received an e-mail from the SEDIV Chief of Emergency Services stating that because of an incident in the pits at VIR he was suggesting the following rules.

1. "two 10 lb or one 20 lb AB or ABC fire bottles to be
supplied by all competitors and available in hot pit"

2. "ALL over the wall personnel during fueling would be
required to wear full fire gear, including balaclava and
helmet"

3. "Speedy Dry in all pits supplied by competitors (ECR rules
allow water OR Speedy dry"

I don't agree with the extra Ab or ABC bottle, they work on gasoline, are OK for electric, and totaly useless on fiberglass, besides if an incident occurs in the pits that requires more than a ten lb bottle, the operating Steward had BETTER have the fire truck on site NOW. Cold Fire is expensive, and SCCA has not approved Cold Fire anyway, so we couldn't use it if we wanted to.

I agree with the "over the wall rule", except I believe the fire bottle person could just wear a balaclava, but the cheaper M helmets could be avaiable for this also and that might make the rule work.

I totally agree with the Speedy Dry rule, water just makes a mess and is marginal at best. And speaking of a mess, have you ever tried to clean up the mess made by a dry chemical fire extenguisher? Check the picture and it will give you some idea about what happens when they are used.

While we are on the subject of fire safety, let me mention that if you use a helmet fresh air system, make certain one of the FIRST things you do if you have a fire is to shut the helmet cooler off, it pumps smoke directly into your helmet and reduces your aware time by at least one half.

If you don't think corner workers deal with fire, check out this picture, I can assure you they do and, thankfully they are very good at it. I was still in the car when this picture was taken.

Krys Dean, ECR Chief Steward, South


http://www.krysdeansoftware.com/Turn_6_a.jpg

[Ken Grammer]

Hello Krys! How are things going?

I've been reading the thread with some interest. Here are my thoughts…

1)PRIORITY: Modify the GCR so that ALL cars, in all classes, can optionally install dry a break system without creating eligibility problems for any regional or national races event. This is not a competitive advantage and should be allowed.

2) Modify your ECR rules to allow dry brake systems in all classes. Since you have a timed stop, allow either dump cans or fuel rigs... there are a lot of low-cost ex-Gramd-Am and IMSA fuel on the market. :)

3) I agree that the basic ECR rules aren't broken. I would not mandate full fire suits for all over-the-wall crew members. It is an expense that most club racing teams cannot afford.

4) I would require both the fueler and fire bottle person to wear fire suits, gloves and head/eye protection. I've read the posts on corner workers... but corner workers usually approach a car that is already smoking. A fire bottle person in pit lane needs to be properly dressed.

5) Eliminate funnels outright! I would expressely forbid any person other then the fueler from touching the car during fueling.

6) Have Enterprises engineer a proper GCR-specified fueling system for SRF's that allow them to be fueled without requiring the body work to be removed (probably not an issue for the ECR... but clearly a concern for races like the 13 Hour.

I also like the idea of coming up with a consolidated set of rules that work with ECR and other endurance races... makes the team's lives easier.

So... allow dry break systems, eliminate funnels outright, and design a good system for SRFs...

Easy, right?

[krysdean]

Ken, good to hear from you, I am not sure about the dry breaks, in inexperienced hands they can be as dangerous as funnels, but if that is what the competitors want, I would certainly entertain the idea (it isn't up to just me), we have mandatory five minutes pit stops so speed of fueling would not be an issue. The cost is a concern, most of our drivers are not in a position to afford the equipment, even at used prices, and they are still quite expensive, I have one on my car.

I like the idea of outlawing the funnels, they create a number of problems from a safety standpoint.

SRF don't seem to have a problem, and my experience with Enterprise is that we probably can't afford that either.

I think we can (and should) solve the safety issues without breaking the bank, obviousley we should do everything possible, but the reality is that Racing is a dangerous sport and we can't make it perfectly safe, we can only be as well prepared as possible while keeping in mind that it also has to be affordable.

Ken, it is really good to hear from you and your input is always welcome, give me a call, we can talk a little trash about "you know who":happy204:

Krys

[Ken Grammer]

No problem.

I'll get in touch sometime after the VIR 13 Hour. I'm sort of swamped getting the last minute details ready for the race... like making sure the fuel rig works properly with the dry break system! :D

E-mail me off like your phone number and/or email address. [email protected]

Talk to you soon!

[Wreckerboy]

Edumacate me please: why are funnels Evil? I'm thinking they help make sure the fuel goes where it is intended to, but obviously I am missing something here. Before I toss all of the funnels out of the shop I'd at least like to understand why...

[dickita15]

The problem with funnels is that when the car is filled you will still have fuel in the funnel, could be a couple of quarts. When you pull the funnel out the fuel usually goes on your shoes.
Way too many crews are pickup teams that do not practice.

[Mike Mackaman]

As a Pit marshal, I have put out two substantial fires, both at RA. The first was a S2000 that lost a fuel line on the carb and pulled off drivers right on the front straight. No way anyone could get to him from a corner before the car burned to the ground. I got permission from Race Control to cross the front straight under direction from start/finish and put out a very large fuel fire. At a vintage race a driver came in asking if I smelled gas in his GT-40. I said I did and told him to wait. I grabbed a Halon bottle and turned back around and he had driven up the hill by the bathrooms. I started running as he reached the top of the hill and lit off. Luckily no-one was hurt.
I put out a small oil fire on a car that lost a header stud, allowed oil to drain out on to the header! Had to convince the driver to exit!!!

This was over 4 years working 20+ events per year.

It is important for any team to know what you are putting into the car. Cut it too close and the results could ruin your day. If you know you can put the fuel in the car, you can't over fill the funnel or the hose.

Mike

[dickita15]

By the way in over 30 years flagging I worked on 5 fires including the legendary DSR fire at the Road Atlanta Runoffs in the 70’s and a Ferrari F1 brake fire in the Pits at Mosport in 1978.

[krysdean]

This is all great feedback and this is what makes ECR Series racing the best, the drivers and owners are involved, those of us who have the privilege to work with ECR can only do so much, you guys are the ones that make it work.:smilie_pokal:

[DoubleXL240Z]

I think I could outfit at least 5 or 6 people with full single layer nomex, balaclava, gloves and goggles for the cost of one dry break system.
your mileage may vary

[betamotorsports]

I've worked fuel on pits stops at SCCA, and NASA races and I don't care what the rules say. I wear full Nomex (underwear, suit, shoes, balacava, gloves) and a full face race helmet with the face shield down. I'm also thinking about full length splash apron for my next fueling assignment.

[MMiskoe]

This thread sure gathered a lot of interest in a short amount of time.

Keep in mind that a dry break system is not all you need. The system needs to be vented and to have a proper overflow system. Not to mention that even w/ these there still can be lots of fuel spilled. I don't need to tell you to look at any Nascar stop & you'll see fuel spilled, you've all seen it. And those guys have the budget and training to see that it doesn't happen.

On the other hand, the only pit lane fire I've seen in lots of enduros w/ fuel stops was due to a car being left running & the fuel spilling on the exhaust (2008 Summit 12 hour). Fuel needs an ignition source. Instead of mandating dry breaks what about mandating that the exhaust & the filler be on opposite sides of the car. No more expensive to engineer & build.

An interesting thing I've seen is that many sup's don't require a balaclava, only gear as a driver would wear. But even w/ a helmet & suit, the bottom of your chin is exposed and guess where the fire comes from - below.

Fueling is dangerous, we'll never get around it.

[krysdean]

I think dry break systems are a non starter for our series, too much money involved for the gain (if any) in safety. I would like to see all crew members involved in fueling in NOMEX (single layer should be OK) eye protection, and balaclava, that, IMHO, would make the most sense both financially and from a safety standpoint. Although I would like to see some of the newer fire extenguishers avaialble, their present day cost is probably prohibitive. I also received an e-mail with regard to "wicking" on NOMEX, although NOMEX is fire proof (or at least retardent), it will act as a "wick" for gasoline and fire, so an apron wouldn't be a bad idea for the fueler/s either. The pit road officials also need to do a better job of making sure we abide by the rules we already have. Most of this stuff needs to start with the competitors though, I trust the owner/drivers in the ECR series to err on the side of safety, and I would rather see voluntary change rather than a new rules package.

Krys Dean, ECR Chief Steward, South