Question about ITA vw

[VWralley]

I just picked up a 1990 GTI 8v. I'd really like to run the car in ITA. my question is can i build the car to the 87-89 gti (1.8 16v) specs even though the car would technically have the 2L 16v? Since the car is origionally an 8v, is it ok to update it an run the appropriate class? I would assume as long as i use all the correct parts it would be ok either way? Also the later mk2's had different bumpers, would those also be required to be changed?

thanks for the help!

[shwah]

This used to be more difficult, because the VIN had to be correct. But now you can use any equivalent shell to make the car you want to race. The end result needs to be exactly the same as an OEM 16v based race car. You can run the 1.8 CIS-E injected small bumper setup, or the 2.0 CIS-E Motronic injected big bumper setup. I would go 1.8 myself, because the brakes will appreciate less weight.

All that said, the car is probably more competitive as an ITB, with the current 8v powerplant.

[lateapex911]

Welcome-

I'm no VW expert, so you might want to post this in the car section.

If the car you run is identical in every way to the cars listed on the pec line, then you are OK.

So, if your car came with a 40 liter engine, and the chassis is a year later than those listed, but other wise identical, you can run that chassis after installing the proper engine and any other bits that aren't common between the years, except where the GCR allows modifications.

It can be confusing, but, the first bit of advice I give to anyone contemplating racing is:

1- Buy a built car, as opposed to building one. The money savings are HUGE, and the time savings are too, and ..........
2- Get a GCR, and read it, cover to cover.

[VWralley]

thanks guys!

i really just needed to know if it was legal to do so an you guys definetly helped me out there.

i have been shopping for a car for a bit, an nearly nabbed a perfect setup mk2 ITA car but it sold before i could come up with the money.

i'll never race nationally, so im just looking to build a fun track car, that will eventually become a full on race car :D

now what i cant figure out is if i can change the fuel injection from CIS to EFI...

[JamesB]

If you stick with the 8v by the current rule set you could convert to digifant (all the digi parts) and adapt a megasquirt or similar brain to it. If your looking to go from track car to race car (IT is a regional class and the rules still apply,) your best bet is to read the GCR and build the car legal to class rules rather then building something with nowhere to go.

If you go 2L 16v, you are stuck with CIS-Motronic.

[VWralley]

i have the GCR right in front of me haha, i dont see it say you cannot change forms of fuel injection as i have seen in say production class rules. an it also does not specify the fuel injection each engine is suppose to have in teh car index, where as the scirocco says specifically...

which is why i asked. there is always the "if it doenst say you can, don't" but it seems in other classes it specifies which you can/cant use, an if its not allowed to convert from mechanical to cis etc...

thanks for the help!

see my issue is there is 1 maybe 2 most of the time no ITB cars, but they run in the same group as the ITA cars. there is about 20 ITA cars, an a similarly prepared car ( a guy i regularly help out, an pits next to the guy i crew for) runs in the top five as far as times go. now i know i wont show up an be a front running car, but it definatly seems with enough work an time, i could be a front running car in a good sized class.

[VWralley]

just to clarify,

ITB 8v (it is a digi car) an i can run MS. but i have to retain an use the stock AFM?

ITA 1.8 or 2L 16v, but must retain correct CIS

[shwah]

The if it doesn't say you can, you can't rule is hard and fast in IT.

You have the option of CIS-E and a 1780cc motor, or CIS-E Motronic and the 2 liter for an ITA VW. FWIW, I don't beleive there is an outright power advantage to the electronic fuel injection over the CIS-E, but I will be building one over the winter to find out for sure.

Yes in ITB, you can run all of the digi hardware and control it with any ecu you like - but you still have to pull all the air through the AFM, you don't have to use that signal for anything, but the air has to pass through a stock AFM.

For ITA I would go small bumper 1.8 CIS-E. The 1.8 head will flow a bit better on the top end than the 2.0 head. The weight advantage is worth more than the 2.0 in a season worth of racing consumables. Heck, I have thought at times of putting a 16v in my car and seeing how it runs in ITA - but I have a lot of fun with ITB right now.

Where are you located? Few ITB cars sounds like west coast...

[VWralley]

ok i just was looking for a hard "no" or "yes" thank you!

I'm in washington, an i dont really have the funds to travel to where i could run with a large ITB group. Im still definatly entertaining the idea of the 16v, i just love my megasquirted 16v rabbit, so much more than cis! haha

i was definatly leaning towards the 1.8 small bumper route..

[JamesB]

while it would be nice to just ditch CIS-E, you cannot. But you are still allowed to tune CIS-E and if your brave and have a few spares go ahead and mess with the DPR calibration (I dont mean the idle calibration either, this is the screw on the back fo the DPR) before you go the route of a resistor inline with the coolant temp sensor.

[VWralley]

im really really not into messing with cis-e at all haha

sorry fellas but i may have to move into the production category. although i may start out in ITB to learn the ropes a bit

[chuck baader]

Chris, I believe the GCR says ...working AFM....but I guess if the vane moves it is working:shrug: Chuck

[lateapex911]

Chucks right, it must be there, and function as stock, but, the ECU doesn't HAVE to listen to it's signal. With the MAP sensor allowance, there are options.....

[VWralley]

ah ok i see what you guys are saying. mine as well just build it to ITB spec an then if i choose to update motors i can run with those rules...

now back to the engine/car setup...if i run the 8v digi motor, will i also be required to stick with the big bumpers?

[shwah]

No you can run any bumper assy that came on the 85-92 8v Golf.

[VWralley]

awesome that is all the info i needed, thanks guys