Hans Device Update

[Robert Zecca]

Dear Racers,

We would like to alert you to the following information regarding your Hans devices. As per some of the rules of different clubs they are specifying that you must change the tethers on your Hans device every two years. Please consult your sanctioning body's rules so that you are in compliance for your next event. You will notice that on the newer Hans there is a date printed on the tether as per the FIA spec.

The standard fixed tethers are sold at $40 per pair or you can change these to the more popular sliding tethers for $75. For applications where you are in a vehicle that exiting is difficult with a helmet on you can change to the quick-release system for $110. In either case you can install them yourself or if you feel more comfortable we will install them for you free of charge. Just send us your Hans and we will take care of this and your only cost will be for the tethers and shipping.

PCA, NASA, BMWCCA and many other clubs are now requiring Head & Neck Restraints for all club racing. We are seeing customers opt for the lower priced Hans Sport model at $695. Please feel free to call us anytime with your questions regarding this at 1-800-275-4667.

As always we appreciate your business.

Sincerely,

Bob Zecca

[FastM3]

Thanks for the message Bob

I updated to the new sliding type tether after being involved in an accident because I could not turn my head enough to see oncoming traffic. The increase in visibility now that I can turn my head is phenomenal.

Do your selves a big favor and get the newer tether. You wont beleive the diference.

Phil

[NORRIS]

Just did the sliding tether update. Made a huge difference. I didn't realize how much I couldn't turn my head.

[spnkzss]

So, not only are you paying $$$ for SFI, you now have to pay $110 every 2 years if we want to keep sliding tethers? :happy204::smilie_pokal:

[x-ring]

SFI -- Bah!

[planet6racing]

So, not only are you paying $$$ for SFI, you now have to pay $110 every 2 years if we want to keep sliding tethers? :happy204::smilie_pokal:

Nope, just $75 for the sliding. It's $110 if you want the quick release tethers (based on the above message).

[ekim952522000]

FIA belts are good for 5 years so why not the tethers?

[Greg Amy]

FIA belts are good for 5 years so why not the tethers?
Because, like lambs to the slaughter, instead of pushing back against all this silly SFI...stuff...we accept it.

Out of significant respect for Bob and all that he's done this year, I will not sully this discussion further vis-a-vis SFI and required safety equipment. But...seriously folks... :shrug:

[gsbaker]

Because, like lambs to the slaughter, instead of pushing back against all this silly SFI...stuff...we accept it.

Out of significant respect for Bob and all that he's done this year, I will not sully this discussion further vis-a-vis SFI and required safety equipment. But...seriously folks... :shrug:
http://www.racingsafetyinstitute.org/

Just sayin'.

[JohnRW]

http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/60773776.pdf


Hmmm...this bother anyone else here ?

[1stGenBoy]

Just an FYI: Quick releases are not yet available for the sliding teathers..They are under development.

[ekim952522000]

http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/60773776.pdf


Hmmm...this bother anyone else here ?

Allot of us have brought up that as long as Gregg is the head of RSI it will never work.

[Greg Amy]

Hmmm...this bother anyone else here ?
No more so than than recognizing who runs SFI.

Actually, now that I think about it, significantly less so... :shrug:

[JLawton]

My Isaac tethers don't need to be replaced every two years..... :shrug:

[Knestis]

http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/60773776.pdf

Hmmm...this bother anyone else here ?

It will, only if you want it to.

We've been trying for a couple of years to gin up enough interest to make a fully independent body work, including creating an community modeled on the open-source software approach, so WE can own the process and standards...

...but as Greg A. says, only about 4 of us among the SCCA membership care enough to even bleat as we go off to the hammer.

Mr. Baker has ponied up the initial $$ to help make it happen, because it is consistent with the philosophies that drive his company, mission, and product. I can tell you from firsthand conversations with him - again, over 3 or more years now - that he would like NOTHING more than for someone else to take it and run. Several names associated with the IT.com community have been involved but at the end of the day, it looks like most road racers are totally fine with the situation.

A next step will be suits that age out in a few years. SFI doesn't make money if you don't buy stuff with their patches.

K

[JohnRW]

It's an interesting contrast in "full disclosure".

SFI, regardless of the venom you care to regard them with, fully discloses its member organizations.

RSI fails in this regard. Several frequent posters here at IT.com (including you, Kirk) played dumb when asked "who is behind RSI ? ". That, my friend, is an ethical failure that continued for a long long time. The disclosure of the linkage didn't even come from "within".

Not very impressed.

Do I think that SFI has my best interests at heart ? Not really. Do I have ANY confidence in the "sock puppet" world of RSI ? No.

[dickita15]

John, you would make a great RSI board member.

[Greg Amy]

John, you would make a great RSI board member.
+ eleventybillion

Not being sarcastic, either...

[dickita15]

Neither was I.

[CSPTK]

JohnRW would have us all wearing tinfoil helmets...with SFI stickers of course.

[erlrich]

It will, only if you want it to.

We've been trying for a couple of years to gin up enough interest to make a fully independent body work, including creating an community modeled on the open-source software approach, so WE can own the process and standards...

...but as Greg A. says, only about 4 of us among the SCCA membership care enough to even bleat as we go off to the hammer.

...than for someone else to take it and run. Several names associated with the IT.com community have been involved but at the end of the day, it looks like most road racers are totally fine with the situation.

K

Or - could it be that those who would be willing to support a new, independent organization are simply not convinced that the model presented by RSI is a workable one? I know there were several fairly lengthy discussions over at the sandbox about RSI, and as near as I can tell nothing is any different now than it was before. Or maybe I've just missed it. Hey, I'm a huge fan of Gregg and the ISAAC, and pretty much loathe SFI, but until you present an alternative that can gain the backing of the industry you're pretty much urinating into a stiff breeze. Show me something that I believe can work, and I'll be the first one up the gangplank.

[gsbaker]

John, you would make a great RSI board member.
Wanna run it, John?

[Knestis]

It's an interesting contrast in "full disclosure".

SFI, regardless of the venom you care to regard them with, fully discloses its member organizations.

RSI fails in this regard. Several frequent posters here at IT.com (including you, Kirk) played dumb when asked "who is behind RSI ? ". That, my friend, is an ethical failure that continued for a long long time. The disclosure of the linkage didn't even come from "within".

Not very impressed.

Do I think that SFI has my best interests at heart ? Not really. Do I have ANY confidence in the "sock puppet" world of RSI ? No.

Guilty as charged. But the plan at that point was to get Gregg the heck out of the picture ASAP to avoid exactly the charge you level now - to take it away from him completely. We - I - underestimated the challenge (or overestimated the potential interest) so that didn't happen.

As regards "the model" and whether it's workable, the infrastructure to make it any way you want is bought and paid for (on MY nickel) at...

http://rsicommunity.org/

Pick who's going to be on John's board (or whatever), have them register in the system, tell me who gets what permissions to author/edit/publish content to the web system, and off you go. Make the rules whatever you want.

I just got tired of screaming into a vacuum (and dealing with that wind and streams of liquid). The VAST majority of road racers I ever communicated with about this issue just didn't care. Or didn't understand. Or both.

Or don't. But please don't take the puss way out and join those who default to calling me an Isaac shill. It's petty and annoying. The only thing I've ever got from Isaac was a head and neck system - for which I paid full retail. That and a lot of information, technical and test data, and media about a variety of restraint systems, intended for an audience that mostly doesn't give a hoot.

Kirk (who thinks John's perfect for the job, too!) :happy204:

[ekim952522000]

<---Mike who might be interested in helping in somthing like this but has allot of questions.

I think I understand what you guys are trying to do but even reading on the sites the idea confuses me.

"METHODS - RSI presents to the public, in summary format, test results provided by reseachers, manufacturers and other parties. RSI does not set design parameters nor performance standards, although performance standards are referenced where applicable. There are no members; no one joins anything or pays any fees. Donations are accepted but not from manufacturers."

The underlined part is what is really odd to me If the RSI does not set standards how can I the racer no I am safe?

The bold part is also strange who's standards will you be referencing if not your own?

Now this could be a wrong assusmption But I assume that if I am wearing FIA belts that I am safe and that they have met a standard if the RSI does not set these standards How good is a RSI label?

[pgipson]

...We would like to alert you to the following information regarding your Hans devices. As per some of the rules of different clubs they are specifying that you must change the tethers on your Hans device every two years.

Which rule would that be?

[gsbaker]

...I just got tired of screaming into a vacuum (and dealing with that wind and streams of liquid). The VAST majority of road racers I ever communicated with about this issue just didn't care. Or didn't understand. Or both.
Don't get despondent, Kirk. You (and everyone else who visits these forums) only see these forums, i.e. for those interested in North American road racing. NA road racing is less than 10% of the racer headcount--probably under 5%. The vast majority of RSI web site traffic is either foreign or from small domestic organizations.

Globally, most organizations don't use--or have even heard of--SFI, and those starting with a clean slate prefer the RSI approach. It's impossible to tell because membership is not required in RSI, but I would not be surprised to learn that more new organizations adopt RSI over SFI. In correspondence with people who are just beginning to consider safety "standards", most of these folks don't understand why anyone would opt for SFI, the principle complaint being that it is not transparent.


Kirk (who thinks John's perfect for the job, too!) :happy204:Great, sign him up. :smilie_pokal:

[tom91ita]

Dear Racers,

snip... As per some of the rules of different clubs they are specifying that you must change the tethers on your Hans device every two years. ...snip...

As always we appreciate your business.

Sincerely,

Bob Zecca

Bob,

What clubs currently specifify that the tethers must be replaced?

tia.

tom

[mbuskuhl]

Replacing tethers is being concluded from the info below...

NASA CCR 29.1.2 Installation and Replacement (subsection of HNR systems)
Any systems used MUST be installed and used according to the manufacturers directions. The driver is ultimately responsible for the proper installation and use of these devices. It should be noted that “webbing based” systems should be replaced at least every three years or sooner if the manufacturer specifies such. Any device that shows signs of wear or abrasions should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair or should be replaced. “Homemade” repairs are not allowed.

HANS owners manual -http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/sc.5/.f
Page 11 of the owners manual, last sentence, third paragraph says "In any event, tether replacement is recommended at least every 2 years."

[tom91ita]

Mark,

Thanks for the reply/explanation. However, I have an issue because with regards to compliance:

"should" does not equal "shall"

"recommended" does not equal "required"

tom

[mbuskuhl]

BMW CCA http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/static/ForTheRacer/BMW+CR+Rules+-+2008+-+v13.4.pdf

Page 22 of 139 Section 10 HNR

"HANS tethers shall be replaced every three years..."

I race NASA and SCCA. I will not be changing my tethers anytime soon and I've had my HANS for 1.5 years now. I don't think the NASA rules make it an actual "requirment". However, the BMW CCA rules clearly state such.

[tom91ita]

Mark,

Thanks! that is the first clear requirement i have seen. the rest were not clear.

there is not doubt in that language.

tom