PDA

View Full Version : 2008 ARRC by GRM Tentative Schedule



Butch Kummer
08-12-2008, 10:12 AM
I don't want to take away from Todd's time to bask in what sounds like a great IT-Spec*Tacular, but the question came up on the MaMTMNBM (tm) website so I decided to copy my response over here as well.

= = = = = = =

See later in the thread (Page 2) for the current proposed schedule...

RacerBowie
08-12-2008, 12:33 PM
I like it a lot.

The big worry, and one you seem to have taken into consideration, is how to split up the groups when the Pro Paddock thing happens.

Having all the IT cars in one paddock and all the open wheel/ big bore cars in another is probably the best way to do it, as those groups don't cross-pollinate very much.

Well done, Butch! As I told you at the July race, you are certainly doing this right. Todd did it right as well for the IT Fest. This is a good time to be a racer around here.

tom91ita
08-12-2008, 01:16 PM
the IT fest has certainly wetted my appetite for the ARRC.

looking forward to it.

Butch Kummer
08-12-2008, 01:44 PM
Todd did it right as well for the IT Fest.

Yes, he does - and we communicate on a pretty regular basis to make sure we're heading a similar direction. Now all I need to do is convince him to add GTA to the IT-Fest! :rolleyes:

I'd also like to hear more about the gas card thing...

Butch Kummer
08-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Oh - and one other thing:

The first qualifying session will be lined up as you get to Grid while the second (shorter) one will be lined up based on your best lap in the first session. Not as structured as the 8-lap qualifying races we used in July, but it SHOULD reduce some of the traffic encounters in the second session.

See ya...

chuck baader
08-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Butch, if you can get the pro pits for the IT group it will alleviate the overcrowding in the first paddock. Just think how much happier Fletcher will be:D:D:D. Chuck

dj10
08-12-2008, 04:53 PM
"We will NOT have access to the Pro Paddock in 2008 (we've made other arrangements to relieve the crowded conditions)"

Butch, I'm all ears on how you are going to elleviate the congested paddocks? This was a monumenatal pain in the ass! There were almost fist fights when the stock car guys pulled in so close that we couldn't get our side door open or the tow vehicle in front of the trailer. Being stuck in a sardine can is not a good way to a fun weekend.:~)

Butch Kummer
08-12-2008, 06:35 PM
By the time Bill Perry and I convinced our Race Board that we really could work out of both paddocks (do the terms "herding cats" or "but we've never done it that way before!" ring any bells?), Skip Barber had already scheduled one of their programs for the Pro Paddock that weekend and was unwilling to change it. I HAVE been assured that we'll have access to both paddocks in 2009 and beyond.

For 2008 we're going to put all the Stock Car guys in the gravel parking behind the old Panoz shops, then open the side gate by the old Registration building to enable easier access. Frees up some room in the Club Paddock and gets all us beer-drinking, fist-fighting, knuckle-dragging rednecks away from polite society. i.e. - moving us out of the main paddock will increase the average I.Q. level of both areas! :rolleyes:

See ya...

dj10
08-12-2008, 06:45 PM
For 2008 we're going to put all the Stock Car guys in the gravel parking behind the old Panoz shops, then open the side gate by the old Registration building to enable easier access. Frees up some room in the Club Paddock and gets all us beer-drinking, fist-fighting, knuckle-dragging rednecks away from polite society. i.e. - moving us out of the main paddock will increase the average I.Q. level of both areas! :rolleyes:

See ya...

ROTFLMAO!!!!! :happy204: Man am I glad you said that........:cool:

Beran
08-20-2008, 04:41 PM
Ok - I'll ask something that is probably dumb...
What is ITT & SRX? What type of cars are these?
Also - ITB is racing with SSM or just qualifying with them?
I did the Pro IT race last year at the ARRC with the Miata's and it was crazy. I did the ITB race with IT7 and I think ITC... going from my poor memory.
The Miata's are close to ITB cars.... not sure if this is a good mix... Actually I not sure there is a good mix for Miata's and another group.
Who did they run with, if any, last year at the ARRC.
Also - Bowie... you cannot race in both groups.... need to pick only one.
B

mlytle
08-20-2008, 06:50 PM
Ok - I'll ask something that is probably dumb...
What is ITT & SRX? What type of cars are these?
Also - ITB is racing with SSM or just qualifying with them?
I did the Pro IT race last year at the ARRC with the Miata's and it was crazy. I did the ITB race with IT7 and I think ITC... going from my poor memory.
The Miata's are close to ITB cars.... not sure if this is a good mix... Actually I not sure there is a good mix for Miata's and another group.
Who did they run with, if any, last year at the ARRC.
Also - Bowie... you cannot race in both groups.... need to pick only one.
B


ITT = IT pick'em up TRUCKS
SRX is SRX7...spec first gen rx7's.

chewy8000
08-20-2008, 11:04 PM
I did the Pro IT race last year at the ARRC with the Miata's and it was crazy.
The Miata's are close to ITB cars.... not sure if this is a good mix... Actually I not sure there is a good mix for Miata's and another group.


Oh no, Miatas and VW's have some weird magnetic charge that cause them to collide all the time. Atleast mine does...:shrug:

shwah
08-20-2008, 11:59 PM
Not digging SSM in ITB group. Too many of the cars run too similar lap times, slightly differently.

RacerBowie
08-21-2008, 07:00 AM
Also - Bowie... you cannot race in both groups.... need to pick only one.
B


I unfortunately have to pick Group 12: None of the above.

All I'll be racing ARRC weekend is a SM in the enduro.

924Guy
08-21-2008, 08:25 AM
I agree, SSM would be a BAD fit in with B/C/T/SRX...

Gotta keep 'em separated!!

PS - last year we were ITB/ITC/ITT/SRX without more than average issues, IMO... adding SSM to the mix would change that...

Beran
08-21-2008, 05:20 PM
Yes - I do have issue. Please do not run ITB and SSM. Different lines for front wheel with rear wheel and similar lap times.
Why not run them the same way as last year? I do not recal any issues last year.
I guess comparing the lap times for both groups could help. I do remember a really fast Miata in the Pro-IT race qualifying that I could not even come close to catching.
B

tom91ita
08-22-2008, 08:20 AM
for purely selfish reasons, i would like to run ITB with ITC so i can try to follow the itc crx's to learn the track.....

Butch Kummer
08-22-2008, 11:04 AM
The schedule I posted is not cast in concrete by any means, but let me explain my reasoning:

We need entries to keep entry fees somewhat reasonable (we're looking at $275 for the ARRC races this year), and we're losing 39 cars from 2007 now that FE has gone National. Everything I read about "how to change racing?" says guys want to be able to double or triple dip to save money by sharing the ride (and expenses) with a buddy. Splitting ASM and SSM into separate groups allows us to do that, and that could go along way toward recovering some of the ground we lost by FE no longer being eligible to run the ARRC.

By rule we can start 65 cars at Road Atlanta. Based on average participation for the last three years (I'll attach the spreadsheet if I can figure out how to do that), the groups I'm proposing will have the following (the track record per class is in parentheses):

Group 1 - 41.7 cars
ITB - 16.3 (1:46.126)
ITC - 10.7 (1:47.978)
ITT - 3.7 (1:51.157
SRX - 4.0 (1:50.127)
SSM - 7.0 (1:46.124)

Group 2 - 39.0 cars
IT7 - 10.0 (1:44.090)
ITA - 29.0 (1:42.054)

Group 3 - 44.0 cars
ASM - 40.0 (1:43.751)
DP - 0.0
ITU - 4.0 (1:42.392)

Group 4 - 33.0 cars
GP - ?? (1:45.282)
ITR - 4.0 (1:39.109)
ITS - 21.7 (1:39.564)
SPU - 7.3 (1:32.753)

Obviously we could pick up more SSM drivers by splitting them out from ASM (which is the point of doing so), but even if we have twenty SSM cars we're at 55 cars in Group 1 if everything else stays the same. ITB counts have been steady and ITC counts are dropping, and I don't see a great influx of ITT or SRX vehicles in our future. I'm thinking 5-10 GP cars may show (since they are no longer a Runoffs class), but I'd be VERY surprised if they show in double digits. (i.e. - moving SSM in with Group 4 could be a possibility.)

The current projected schedule has us getting off the track at 5:45 on Friday afternoon, so I don't believe we run more than eight run groups and give people a reasonable amount of track time.

One thing we can do for the first qualifying session is to split SSM out when we line you up on the Grid (the second session will be gridded by time turned in Session #1). I'm open to split starts for all races as well.

Given these parameters, I'm open to suggestions...

(Well I can't attach an Excel spreadsheet)

lateapex911
08-22-2008, 11:42 AM
Butch, no easy answers, but I certainly like your open minded approach and transparent thinking.

In my eyes, having such a big deal race where one group has two distinct classes with the same lap records is problematic. Nobody wants to get hung up racing an out of class car while the car in your class eases away for a trophy.

While I see downsides, I'd seriously consider moving the SSMs to the GP group. The cornering speeds are pretty good on SMs, which means that the ITR and ITS cars won't get killed/held up badly thru the esses, and the power differences are such that passes should be easy. And I would ABSOLUTELY do a split start with them, but not one of those halfway back split starts. Keep them as tight as reasonable to give the everyone a chance to spread out before the lapping begins. To me, that makes more sense, and is the least damaging way of achieving your goal. (strong entries, reasonable fees)

Now, that creates issues with turnaround for the drivers, so I'd flip the group order, and run group 2 third, and group 3 second. That would have the side benefit of making the IT guys happier, as they can watch the other IT races. (It's all about us, Butch! ;) )

I think it's important to keep in mind the cornerstone of your event, which is to provide the highest level class races.... and adding a class with the same lapping times to an existing class is going to destroy that cornerstone.

924Guy
08-23-2008, 07:48 AM
+1 to all that Jake has said...

svt38
08-23-2008, 09:52 AM
As an ITC racer, I am not a big fan of putting SM’s with ITB/C either. I for one have over the years looked forward to the “ARRC Championship Race” without having to run with the SM’s. IMO it takes away from the event status as a Championship event. Butch, I would ask you to consider leaving all the SM’s in the same group like last year.

Also, about split starts. Before the event there is always talk about them, but when we request for one during the weekend they seldom materialize. We have gotten these unsafe split grid jobs a few times. Would it possible to have them published in advance?

Note: I believe the ITC Lap record is 1:49.578
http://www.arrc-online.com/results_2007/Gp3RACE.pdf

IPRESS
08-23-2008, 12:10 PM
Butch, in the spirit of the car share (which I have done since 2000 at ARRC), Do you think the ITA cars which seems to be a pretty large group might do some SSM /ASM type share between ITA / ITU? Is that even legal? I know last year ITU could have used some more entries and just guessing an "A" car could run close at least by those times above.
If that is a legit option moving that run group to last would give a little turn arounf for both ASM / SSM and ITU / ITA racers working the share angle.

Whatever you get worked out some of us will like and some will not, so it ain't a biggie.
It still will be the top IT event of the year.

Beran
09-02-2008, 08:37 AM
I agree with everything Jake said.
I'd also like to point to your post:
"Group 1 - 41.7 cars
ITB - 16.3 (1:46.126) <---------
ITC - 10.7 (1:47.978)
ITT - 3.7 (1:51.157
SRX - 4.0 (1:50.127)
SSM - 7.0 (1:46.124) <---------

The ITB & SSM lap record are within 2 thousands of a second. Rear wheel versus front wheel will make both the SSM and ITB race basically one big race. Both classes will be racing against cars in thier class AND the other class. This is frustrating and not fun.
IMHO Miata's CAN go to the Runoff's and compete nationaly..... at this point IT cannot and THIS is the location for that. If you put us in the same group then this is NOT the location and race for a "National" IT event. A split start will help but one double yellow will crush that. I know "we" need the Miata folks for the $$$ to keep the event viable but let's still keep some semblance of an IT event.
YMMV

Butch Kummer
09-02-2008, 09:17 AM
Now that Barber is behind us I'll work on finalizing the ARRC schedule, but the outpouring of emotion (and valid arguments) has convinced me that my original logic process was not (logical).

I'll post it later this week, but the ITB/ITC group will remain as it was for 2007 (no SSM). I'll be getting with the Chief Steward (new one this year) regarding split starts in all/most groups (including GTA/SPO), but all I can tell you right now is *I* am in favor of them.

More later...

lateapex911
09-02-2008, 10:41 AM
.....has convinced me that my original logic process was not (logical).



Nah...it was logical, just maybe not as logical as it could be.;)

Catch22
09-10-2008, 08:15 PM
I second what some folks said above.

You have to understand how important the ARRC is to ITB and ITC drivers not just because its the ARRC but because its a chance to actually get your own race without dodging pinatas all day.

Butch Kummer
09-11-2008, 09:51 AM
I'm attaching the proposed Schedule that is currently under review by the Stewards and Race Board. Once I have their approval we'll be sending it off to Topeka.

I've talked to our new for 2008 Chief Steward Laurie Sheppard about split starts. While she's not a fan of them, she's "okay" with them as long as we have two pace cars (which we will). She also understands the nature of this event makes a split start more desireable, and has agreed with my request to do split starts in most if not all the run groups.

Proposed Groups:

Group 1: ITB, ITC, ITT, SRX
Group 2: ASM, DP, ITU
Group 3: GP, IT7, ITA
Group 4: ITR, ITS, SPU, SSM
Group 5: BP, ITO, ST, TCC
Group 6: ASR, CFC, FB, FS
Group 7: GTA, SPO
Group 8: CF, FFX, FST
Group 9: Pro-IT – ASM, IT7, ITA, ITB, ITC, ITR, ITS, ITT, ITU, SRX, SSM
Group 10: “Bonus” Race – ASR, CF, CFC, FB, FFX, FS
Group 11: Enduro – ASM, IT7, ITA, ITB, ITC, ITO, ITR, ITS, ITT, ITU, SRX, SSM


Friday, 11/7:
. 20-minute qualifying session for Groups 1-9
. lunch (and $10 Track Tours)
. 15-minute qualifying sessions (gridded by morning times) Groups 1-8
. 20-lap Pro-IT race

Saturday, 11/8:
. "out-in" hardship warm-up
. 20-lap ARRC Championship races, Groups 1-4
. lunch (and $10 Track Tours)
. 20-lap ARRC Championship races, Groups 5-8

Sunday, 11/9:
. 30-minute qualifying, Group 11A (ASM, ITB, ITC, ITT, SRX, SSM)
. 20-minute qualifying, Group 10
. 30-minute qualifying, Group 11B (IT7, ITA, ITO, ITR, ITS, ITU)
. 10:00 - 12:30: Quiet Time and PDX sessions on track
. 20-lap "Bonus" race for Group 10
. Three-Hour Enduro, Group 11

lateapex911
09-11-2008, 01:46 PM
Glad to see the dialog and the consideration, Butch!

Immediate reactions: (both purely greedy!)

-Laurie Sheppard as the Chief Stew? Good choice.
-And move lunch up between groups 3 and 4 so we IT guys can cheer on our brethren.

Question, how will you actually "split" the groups like 1,3, 4?

Will it be:
1: Pace car: ITB ------------ Pace car: ITC ITT & SRX?
3: Pace car: ITA ------------ Pace car: IT7, GP?
4: Pace car: ITR, ITS, STU -- Pace car: SSM?

Butch Kummer
09-11-2008, 02:28 PM
Jake,

We don't get to choose the Chief Steward, but we do have input into it. I've worked with Laurie in the past and when Rick Mitchell (SEDIV Exec. Steward) said she was interested, I was completely in support of it.

Not enough hours in the day to run three groups before lunch and five after. I could move the groups around (swap 4 & 5, for instance), but I'm also positioning ourselves for 2009 when we get to use both paddocks. We'll run Saturday morning from one side, eat lunch, then move Grid and the Tech people to the other side for the afternoon.

The splits will depend on the number of cars per class, but I'd anticipate something very similar to what you listed. I know you guys don't care about us neanderthals in the other groups, but carrying further it will likely be:

Group 5 - may split TCC out (depending on how many show)
Group 6 - split for FB
Group 7 - SPO, then GTA (the REAL racers!)
Group 8 - FST depending on counts, may also do a split grid for this one

"Thank you for you input..." :)

RacerBill
09-11-2008, 04:42 PM
"Thank you for you input..." :)


Cruel! :p

lateapex911
09-11-2008, 05:19 PM
Jake,

We don't get to choose the Chief Steward, but we do have input into it. I've worked with Laurie in the past and when Rick Mitchell (SEDIV Exec. Steward) said she was interested, I was completely in support of it.

Not enough hours in the day to run three groups before lunch and five after. I could move the groups around (swap 4 & 5, for instance), but I'm also positioning ourselves for 2009 when we get to use both paddocks. We'll run Saturday morning from one side, eat lunch, then move Grid and the Tech people to the other side for the afternoon.

The splits will depend on the number of cars per class, but I'd anticipate something very similar to what you listed. I know you guys don't care about us neanderthals in the other groups, but carrying further it will likely be:

Group 5 - may split TCC out (depending on how many show)
Group 6 - split for FB
Group 7 - SPO, then GTA (the REAL racers!)
Group 8 - FST depending on counts, may also do a split grid for this one

"Thank you for you input..." :)

Just have lunch earlier~! (I always thought it was between 3 and 4 in the past, but I'm mistaken I guess)

As for not caring about the other groups, well, it's not quite THAT bad...I just don't have the expertise to estimate in my head the speed differentials between the listed classes, withIN the listed classes, and the expected turnouts, so I kept my mouth shut......for once!

Butch Kummer
09-11-2008, 06:09 PM
Just have lunch earlier~! (I always thought it was between 3 and 4 in the past, but I'm mistaken I guess)

The last two years we've only run seven races on Saturday (the FE guys raced on Sunday last year), so we'd do lunch between 3 & 4. This year we're running all the Championship races on Saturday, so we need to do a 4/4 split.

jjoyce
09-11-2008, 09:42 PM
What is the enduro schedule going to look like? Pit stops, time limits, etc.

Thanks

Greg Amy
09-11-2008, 10:23 PM
Group 4: ITR, ITS, SPU, SSM
Any guesses why that made me - literally - gasp and cringe...?

That, right there, will be a group to watch, just for the carnage potential...

dj10
09-12-2008, 07:44 AM
Any guesses why that made me - literally - gasp and cringe...?

That, right there, will be a group to watch, just for the carnage potential...

Greg, my thoughts exactly!:eek:

Butch Kummer
09-12-2008, 08:10 AM
Any guesses why that made me - literally - gasp and cringe...?

That, right there, will be a group to watch, just for the carnage potential...

Obviously we have carnage potential in any run group, but in this case the SPU cars should leave the ITS/ITR cars pretty handily while all of them outdistance the SSM cars. And since they are faster on both the straights and in the corners, the faster cars should clear the slower cars fairly easily when they come up to lap them. This is a better option than pairing SSM with ITB/ITC (see comments above).

As always, I'm open to suggestions...

Greg Amy
09-12-2008, 09:02 AM
As always, I'm open to suggestions...
I don't envy your responsibilities, Butch. And, I'm not going to offer any suggestions, because I don't have any objective ones that I can offer without personal conflict.

But, nobody wants to say it out loud, so I will: the bottom line is nobody wants to race with Spec Miata.

There, I said it.

Well, maybe other Spec Miatas want to race with Spec Miata (maybe), but obviously ITB doesn't. And, I can say with some confidence ITS and ITR don't. I'm pretty sure ITA would be reasonably unhappy with it, too.

Purely selfish commentary: Sure, the straight-line speed should allow ITS/R/SPU cars to out-distance the SSM cars. Hell, even the mid-packer ITx cars should remain clear of the SSM'ers. But, what about all the mid- and back-ender SSMs playing their own little reindeer games as ITx cars are trying to get by (and it will happen quickly, and often)? So, instead of front-pack ITB cars having problems with front-packer SSM cars, you'll have most-packer ITS and ITR (and SPU) cars having problems with, possibly, the entire field of SSMs.

I envision, several laps in, a serious contre-temps between front-end battling ITS/R cars coming up on their first gaggle of tail-ender SSMs,battling it out on their own, probably out of T2 going through the T3/4/5/6/7 complex. Call it six ITS/R cars coming up on, oh, six SSMs...

Did you just cringe?

Butch, again: this is purely an empathetic, yet selfish, commentary, not a request for action. I understand the region wanting to cater, for business reasons, to a large group of potential customers who, should they choose, could run - what? - four race groups? But the problem is that in catering to such a contingent, it very well may detrimentally affect other groups, your other customers.

Honestly, seeing the Spec Miatas lumped into the group that I would potentially enter has given me significant pause...just sayin'... :shrug:

Butch Kummer
09-12-2008, 09:53 AM
Duly noted.

I spend a fair amount of time monitoring the SM board as well, and I can tell you the majority of those folks are concerned about the reputation their class/group has gotten over the years. In reality, it appears there are a small number of "cowboys" that have made poor choices regarding their right to maintain momentum (like Spec Miata has a lock on that being important - ALL cars need to maintain momentum in order to be really quick) that have given the entire class a bad name.

I fight the same battle with the Big Noise group. The past two years at the ARRC we've had our race cut short by the Operating Steward - one lap short in 2006, NINE laps short in 2007 - because the "race had gotten out of control". I've reviewed the Tower logs both years and in each case it's 2-3 drivers that drive off the track, run into each other, pass under yellow, and otherwise act like jackasses to ruin the show for the rest of us. We've identified those "repeat offenders" and I've gotten agreement from the Stewards that those people don't get the benefit of the doubt on the first transgression. i.e. - no furled black flag. Punishing the entire group for the stupidity / lack-of-good-judgement of a few is wrong.

The Stewards are willing to take action to clean up the racing, but they need our help. Corner workers are often too busy responding to an incident to monitor other actions on the track, so don't always see passes under yellow or other infractions. If we as drivers are willing to fill out a protest form (particularly if we have in-car evidence to back it up), that goes a long way toward getting the other driver's attention.

From a business standpoint (which affects the entry fees you pay), I need to replace 37 FE cars that were here last year but are not invited to the 2008 ARRC. I'm guessing (hoping) that splitting SSM and ASM will generate 20 of those entries.

Nobody wants to race with other classes (hell, nobody wants to race with cars faster than theirs, but that's a whole different story). As the "premiere" IT class ITS had it's own run group for a number of years and the counts were gradually declining even before we started combining them with other classes. We combined them with TCC in 2006 and that was a fiasco, last year was better but I still heard grumblings that "their" race was shortened a lap because Fletcher lapped the field with his SPU car. Short of giving every class their own race (and dropping the Enduro on Sunday afternoon), I cannot accomodate those wishes.

As far as Group 4, I expect the SPU cars to stretch out fairly quickly - generally they do NOT run in packs like SM does. By lap 12 (which is when the fast ITx cars should be catching the bulk of the SSM cars) we may also have groups of 2-3 ITx cars running together, but history has shown there are not a lot of position changes among the leaders there. At Friday's drivers' meeting I will speak about the "ethics" of class racing in a multi-class group, and urge people to be aware of what's going on around them (and being patient) when lapping and being lapped by cars in another class. Such comments may well fall on deaf ears, but it's the best option I have available to me at this time.

See y'all at the track...

Butch Kummer
09-12-2008, 10:17 AM
What is the enduro schedule going to look like? Pit stops, time limits, etc.

Thanks

Although it's not an ECR event, we will be very similar to the ECR rules - minimum two pit stops of five minutes each, no overhead rigs, driver has to be out of the car for fueling. You can also look at the 2007 rules at www.ARRC-Online.com (http://www.ARRC-Online.com), and the only difference will be five minute stops instead of four (and the entry fee will be $375).

SPiFF
09-12-2008, 11:04 PM
Since this I have an IT car, this in an IT board, and the ARRC is supposed to be the IT championship race, we really should try to figure out a way for the IT classes to have their own groups or at minimum have only 2 classes of similar speed cars combined with a split start, R/S, A/7, B/C, for example.

Maybe it could be done by going to a 4 day weekend, dumping the Pro-IT, dumping/shortening the enduro, dumping some of the non-IT classes, etc.

I have only been in IT since 05 and even I can remember the days when the ARRC looked like an IT championship weekend. Every year it is looking less and less so.

mlytle
09-13-2008, 05:22 PM
You have to understand how important the ARRC is to ITB and ITC drivers not just because its the ARRC but because its a chance to actually get your own race without dodging pinatas all day.

same logic applies to ITA, ITS and ITR.......

miatas race in packs. ITS/ITR power is negated when the miatas constantly go 2,3, 4 cars wide on every straight and through turns trying to get around each other. BTDT. nothing against miatas, but it really sucks racing with them. they just race differently than IT cars.

Butch Kummer
09-14-2008, 12:15 PM
Since this I have an IT car, this in an IT board, and the ARRC is supposed to be the IT championship race, we really should try to figure out a way for the IT classes to have their own groups or at minimum have only 2 classes of similar speed cars combined with a split start, R/S, A/7, B/C, for example.

Maybe it could be done by going to a 4 day weekend, dumping the Pro-IT, dumping/shortening the enduro, dumping some of the non-IT classes, etc.

I have only been in IT since 05 and even I can remember the days when the ARRC looked like an IT championship weekend. Every year it is looking less and less so.

Contrary to what many on this board might think, since it's beginning in 1994 the ARRC has the "National Championship race for non-Runoffs classes". That nomenclature was modified in 2006 to exchange the phrase "non-Runoffs" for "non-National" when a number of classes were designated as having National status but were not invited to the Runoffs, but concept of being an event for racers not eligible for an invitation to the Runoffs has not changed. Back in 1994 IT made up the large majority of non-Runoffs classes, but the number of "regional-only" classes and participants has continued to grow over the years. NEVER has the ARRC been considered (at least by Atlanta Region) as an IT-only event.

Going to a four-day event (which it already is for those wanting to run the Test Day) is not a viable option, but running some of the championship races on Sunday is something we can consider for future years. Unless we dump the Enduro altogether, however, it would be non-IT classes that would race on Sunday. Doing so would negate one major plus for the participants of having Sunday for travel, but it's something to consider.

Given the current logistical and financial constraints, however, this is the schedule we're operating under for 2008.

trhoppe
09-15-2008, 02:50 PM
I would think that dumping the Pro-IT in favor of groups that are more separate would go over ok with pretty much everyone.

Maybe not?

-Tom

RacerBowie
09-15-2008, 03:37 PM
I would think that dumping the Pro-IT in favor of groups that are more separate would go over ok with pretty much everyone.

Maybe not?

-Tom

The problem with that is the ~50 extra entry fees from the Pro IT help cover the cost of the event. Especially at the ARRC lots of the out of towners sign up for it as extra testing, so it adds seat time for them too, easing the home track advantage for locals a tiny bit.

dj10
09-15-2008, 04:11 PM
The problem with that is the ~50 extra entry fees from the Pro IT help cover the cost of the event. Especially at the ARRC lots of the out of towners sign up for it as extra testing, so it adds seat time for them too, easing the home track advantage for locals a tiny bit.

For myself, I like the Pro IT, extra seat time is just that. I am for what ever help's this become a truely championship event........unfortunately, running SPU, ITR, ITS with SSM ISN'T IT and I bet the majority of the faster classes will agree.

You can put lipstick on a pig................:)