Region dues

[AE86ITA]

Hello Guys:

Just a few questions regarding Regional Dues


Which SCCA region has the highest membership dues (15, 25, 50, 75, 100, 150 etc)
If I belong to a specific region and would like to participate in an event that is at a different region, Do I have to pay that's region's dues?


Thanks,

[gran racing]

You can goto any SCCA race and participate regardless of the region that is hosting the event without being a member of that specific region. In fact, you can join any region without even living near there.

[dickita15]

Dave is right, you can belong to any region. I have heard of regions that make you be a member to get yearend trophies though. I think the highest dues I have heard of is $25. My region New England is $20.

[JoshS]

I think the highest dues I have heard of is $25. My region New England is $20.
According to the "Join SCCA" page on the SCCA website, region dues range from $0-$25. Of course, out here in San Francisco it's $25, the highest anywhere, just like gasoline. :-)

[AE86ITA]

Thanks Guys:
Well I guess if a region were to charge 150.00 that would be outrageous?

[erlrich]

Thanks Guys:
Well I guess if a region were to charge 150.00 that would be outrageous?
Just for the REGION'S dues? Yes, I would say that was beyond outrageous. Is there a region that is trying to charge you that much?

[ramoncito89]

Just for the REGION'S dues? Yes, I would say that was beyond outrageous. Is there a region that is trying to charge you that much?

o LORD here we go,Im lighting my torch right now:dead_horse:

[spnkzss]

I pay $150 a year for regional dues, national dues, and racing license dues. Is that what you are talking about? If so, my REGIONAL dues are $25.

[gran racing]

And paying that hurts me quite a bit each year. Oh well.

[tnord]

And paying that hurts me quite a bit each year. Oh well.

agreed. i let it all lapse this year. even if i come back for one race, i'm not paying the region dues, or the nat'l dues if i can avoid it.

[tom_sprecher]

Believe it or not most racing regions barely break even every year. Or they bounce from gain to loss but it washes out. Part of the revenue is regional dues, not much, but still a part. This is a big help to large or jumbo regions and a disadvantage to small regionals who are trying to grow into a racing region.

Anyone who thinks the entry fees and dues are too high should find another sport. For the most part if it could be done for less it would be. We try to put on a good show at the lowest cost to everyone involved.

If you are concerned, ask to see your region's P&L and balance sheets. IIRC, they are open for any member to review.

[gran racing]

Anyone who thinks the entry fees and dues are too high should find another sport.

Nice. Interesting how you automatically correlate all of this into people thinking regions are making large sums of money. You know what, I'm still disappointed at the costs of various entry fees but at the same time don't blame the regions - the tracks among many other expenses are most often the cause of this. Why not suggest people do something about it such as the NER is doing with the Palmer track? Other regions are also doing great things. I suppose we should send them packing instead.

If my current region were to start charging $150 for regional dues when the next highest was $25, you better believe I'd strongly consider calling another my home region.

[tnord]

Believe it or not most racing regions barely break even every year. Or they bounce from gain to loss but it washes out. Part of the revenue is regional dues, not much, but still a part. This is a big help to large or jumbo regions and a disadvantage to small regionals who are trying to grow into a racing region.

Anyone who thinks the entry fees and dues are too high should find another sport. For the most part if it could be done for less it would be. We try to put on a good show at the lowest cost to everyone involved.

If you are concerned, ask to see your region's P&L and balance sheets. IIRC, they are open for any member to review.

could regions stand to do better by lowering the number of events?
could they negotiate better contracts with the tracks?
could they market themselves better?
could they avoid thousands in expense by sending fewer to convention?
could they save money by changing insurance companies on the solo trucks?
etc etc.

saying that a bunch of volunteers are doing something as effeciently as possible in their spare time is um......."not accurate."

[jumbojimbo]

My regional dues are $20. About 5 gallons of gas. I can't even get to a the nearest racetrack without burning more gas than that. And I use twice that in tires at every Solo I go to.

You guys are being a bit race centric. Region dues have virtually nothing to do with the race (or solo or rally) program. No 300 member region is going to make a dent in the race budget by changing region dues.

The cost of putting on a race is a valid discussion, but don't confuse the question of regional dues by talking about race expense. It's high, we all know it.

Granted, you can argue that a small region shouldn't be putting on a race, especially if it is losing money doing it. In the old days a little region would make a healthy profit on its race and then use that money to support the rest of the regional program. But smart "business" from national in raising sanction fees and smart "business" from the tracks has squeezed that down to virtually nothing. Maybe it does make sense for the monster regions to suck up all the race dates. You see it happening already.

Region dues are generally used to cover the region member expenses. There are probably exceptions, especially in the big regions, but in the little regions membership dues don't even cover the cost of a member. Think about what it costs to send out a newsletter 10 times a year and you'll see how far $20 goes. I know in our region we lose money if a person joins and participates in no activites.

Granted, that little region might not need to send out a newsletter. But we tried that and participation suffered. You're not a region if you don't have communication and community. I'm a little new to road racing so I haven't lost my connection to the region yet. I still care about the Solo program and the Rallycross program.

Anyway, my point is that if your regional dues are too high, then you'll have to decide if the value you get from your region is enough. If it is not, then find another region with lower dues. If you feel like you are getting no value at all from your regional dues and you'd rather save that $20 then maybe you should look at who puts on the next race you attend. And think about whether they would be doing it if they weren't a part of a local region. And then decide if that's worth the cost of 4 beers or one table dance.

Wow, that came out a little stonger than I meant, but you get the idea.

jim

[gran racing]

Jim, I don't think anyone is complaining about $20 or $25, but $150 would be tougher to swallow which was the original question.

[tom_sprecher]

I'm sorry if I don't sugar coat my statements to make them more palatable to those who can’t stomach the truth but that’s just the way I am. I also grow tied of people reading something into my words and then trying to argue with me about what I wrote.

Case in point: how someone automatically correlated that in my statement of “Anyone who thinks the entry fees and dues are too high should find another sport” I automatically correlated that people are thinking regions are making large sums of money is read something into my words that I simply do not see and simply is not true.

It’s like this…

Racing is expensive. Either live with it or get involved with your region and try to find a way to make it cheaper. Actually, I defy you to do so. I know I have and the whole time thinking there has to be some gross mistakes being made by a motley crew of volunteers. This should be easy, right? Guess what? I was wrong! After sitting down and analyzing an annual budget that some small businesses would love to have I could not find anything worth changing. Nothing.

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and make suggestions. Try stepping up and doing it yourself. Or at least make your suggestions useful with ideas on how to pay the bills.

Jim has a pretty good handle on what presents itself to racing regions. Some other suggestions have merit at first glance but lose much of it when you dig deeper.

If you reduce the number of events you reduce revenue and increase risk to maintaining solvency since race dates usually never come back.
Trying to negotiate better contracts with tracks sounds great but in reality there are so many other organizations that produce more revenue and can outspend you so you end up with what you have.
Better marketing might work but unless you have a lot of extra cash it ends up being a waste of that precious resource because the cost of it is exponentially proportional to its effectiveness.
I don’t know about other regions but we send our RE and one other person to the convention. Being a jumbo region I think we should at least do that.
And finally, from my experience in most cases, saying that a bunch of paid employees doing something as efficiently as possible while at work is um......."not accurate."

With a bunch of volunteers you actually get infinitely much more than you paid them for.

[tnord]

ya know what i get real tired of?

people that think if you don't volunteer your time, that you don't have the right to say anything negative. that's a big smelly pantload. if you participate in region activities and pay your money, you have just as much right to bitch as anyone else. does your input carry less weight than someone who participates and volunteers? probably, but that doesn't mean you have to bend over and take it.

Travis
-who has volunteered. who has made suggestions on how to improve. who has had his ideas shot down by the "old guard." who actually is a financial analyst overseeing billions of dollars in annual spend on a daily basis.

[dickita15]

Travis you have every right to complain but those that do the work have the right to take it with a grain of salt. I belong to a region that has an annual budget of over $750,000 and we spend about $2000 a year to pay some of the expenses attendees to 3 conventions a years. Not much effect on entry fees or dues.
The problem with those that complain that they are paying the bills and should receive more is the people doing the job are not putting a penny in their pocket.

[tom_sprecher]

Does your input carry less weight than someone who participates and spends countless hours working for the benefit of those who don't, yet still bitch....

Fixed that for ya.

That answer is yes in my book. I'm not saying that you should bend over and take it either. Instead of bitching, wouldn't it be more effective to offer viable solutions, in any form, aimed at rectifying any negative issues?

Look, I don't want to argue about this subject and am really tired of doing so. What I want to convey is that with any volunteer organization you get what you get. We could go to paid employees but what you pay to participate would at least triple if not more. That is not the answer but from my perspective we have managed with hard work and commitment to strive for a better racing product.

If that is not the case in your region, replace the "old guard". They may just thank you for it.

[lateapex911]

http://www.roadrace-autox.com/bbs/images/emoticons/popcorn.gif

[tnord]

Dick -

I agree. Any complaint from a person who has never volunteered their time should be met with a certain amount of skepticism. But I do disagree with the notion that event fees (club racing or otherwise), regional dues, and the financial viability of a region are separate issues. There are no separate/individual bank accounts for "typical region operating expenses," "club racing revenue," and "autox revenue."

Tom -

First of all, I have a problem with the notion that the people "volunteering" their time get zero benefit in return, and do it 100% out of the generosity of their heart. At least at *some* level, it's a hobby for those that do not drive just the same. Second, the speculation that it would cost us far more to participate in the club if we had paid employees is nothing but speculation at best. I know of another club that does pay their employees, and has the explicit mission of making money, and are at least comparable in cost to SCCA. Factually stating that our entry fees would at minimum triple is, and i mean this in the nicest possible way, oh......, i dunno, stupid??? In addition, despite your optimistic view of the operational effeciency of the club, there is most definitely money to be saved in the way we do things.

One thing i will agree with is that in a volunteer organization, yes, you do get what you get, and it's very hard to criticize those who offer up their services. But the idea that we should......damnit....i lost my train of thought....i got interrupted with something else that made me mad.

[JoshS]

But I do disagree with the notion that event fees (club racing or otherwise), regional dues, and the financial viability of a region are separate issues. There are no separate/individual bank accounts for "typical region operating expenses," "club racing revenue," and "autox revenue."


Not always! The club doesn't dictate how a region should handle its money. Here in San Francisco Region, Solo has its own money and own accounts.

[tnord]

Not always! The club doesn't dictate how a region should handle its money. Here in San Francisco Region, Solo has its own money and own accounts.

so if SFR's "autox" account ran out of money, would the region stop putting on autox events?

sure, Solo & Club Racing have individual budgets, but i have a hard time believing they won't subsidize one group with the other. i haven't done a very good job of communicating what i'm thinking, and i guess i should clarify that i'm speaking from the perspective of a large region.

[JoshS]

so if SFR's "autox" account ran out of money, would the region stop putting on autox events?

It's probably more likely to go the other way, but both sides are doing fine. However, should one side have a problem, I would imagine that a loan would probably be arranged.

And of course, we too are a jumbo region.

[gran racing]

Interesting how this turned from a discussion of whether $150 regional fee would be accepted to some other discussion. But hey, since Jake can't stay focused on fixing his darn RX7 and want some popcorn... :D


First of all, I have a problem with the notion that the people "volunteering" their time get zero benefit in return, and do it 100% out of the generosity of their heart.

I've seen what some volunteers do and am absolutely amazed at what they give to the club, how much time they sacrifice, and how the SCCA would be much different without them. The little amount of corner working I've done, I can't begin to wonder how they survive the conditions and am extremely appreciative. Yet at the same point, people often do things because they benefit somehow - feel good about helping others, passionate about the area volunteering for, have some type of personal connection, am proud of their what the add to the org., or whatever. While I might not necessarily agree with everything Travis says or possibly the way he says it, we're all involved in this sport because we want to. I have a hard time forgetting the several workers who I thanked for volunteering their time to only thank me for racing, because without each other neither would exist.

How this thread became about regions not doing their job or it could be done properly is beyond me. You know what, I'll still say a $150 regional due fee sucks. I personally don't think I can run things better than my region already does, but that doesn't mean I can't contribute to our club in some shape or form. Will I ever question decisions made? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Nope. I will also say that Travis has a point with the "old guard" protecting what they know to be true. I too have faced that attitude and became frustrated. How long ago was it the old ITAC had the same feeling? I guess it's just human nature, yet somehow, someway new ideas in life seem to keep popping up and just occasionally work.

Jake buddy, I hope you get one of those annoying kernnals stuck between your teeth. :p How's that popcorn now?

[tnord]

to answer the question at hand.....no, i wouldn't accept a $150 regional fee. i would either switch regions, or not have a region membership at all.

in response to Dave....i too have spent time out on the corners waving flags on a hot, hot, hot day. i can't say i particularly enjoyed it, and i would prefer to not do it again, but some really like it. why would workers from all over the country show up to work the runoffs if they didn't?

the whole conundrum with the volunteer organization is like this in my head;

1) joe runs the region/races this way
2) bob politely suggests it would be done better another way
3) joe isn't so sure that's true, and doesn't feel like expending the energy to find out
4) bob doesn't pressure joe about it, because he understands joe is a volunteer, and on some level it's not fair to criticize how a volunteer does his volunteering
5) joe keeps doing it the way he's always done it because he knows it *works* and he can expend minimal effort to accomplish the end goal, after all, he has a regular job, wife, and kids to tend to.

in the end, nothing changes. joe has done his part by volunteering, but bob has also done his part by trying to provide a solution to what he see's as a problem. nobody is to blame, nobody is at fault, but still nothing changes, and improvements that would benefit all are not realized.

[lateapex911]

Jake buddy, I hope you get one of those annoying kernnals stuck between your teeth. :p How's that popcorn now?

Ha! you're just jealous of my web mastery skills! I bet you couldn't get a popcorn eater to appear! Go ahead, take a crack!

I'm staying in the audience for this show, although there have been some fat pitches thrown that have been tempting! back to the grind. Tapping the flywheel awaits me.!

[AE86ITA]

Hello everyone:
Here goe the WHY I asked about regional dues. Puerto Rico is now an SCCA region and it's dues have been set at $150.00, we are going through a very hard transition because here there is another Road Racing organization that has been present for the las 35 years and have used the SCCA categories and somewhat accommodate them to our local scenario, and they run under the FIA umbrella.

I just found out that here we are less than 30 SCCA members and in order to cover for much of the racing expenses the regional dues must be enough to at least to break even. I am trying to do my part and promote new members.

I am completely convinced that once we locally start with a strong autocross program and the local Rally club join, we will become a much stronger region but until then we are stuck with a very steep regional due.

I did not mean for you guy to start flaming your regions but at the same time I admired your courage to speak what in your mind, and that does not make any bit of anti SCCA but on the contrary very much in favor.

Thanks you,

[dickita15]

Wow at $150 it will be pretty tough to grow membership. With most region dues is not a big fundraiser. Events that are well run and well attended build up the war chest a lot more. I guess I can understand that the region feels they need to raise some start up money but this may have the opposite effect where membership is required to run events.

[jjjanos]

ya know what i get real tired of?

people that think if you don't volunteer your time, that you don't have the right to say anything negative.

You know what I'm tired of? People who haven't even paid their regional dues complaining about how their region does things...

"agreed. i let it all lapse this year. even if i come back for one race, i'm not paying the region dues, or the nat'l dues if i can avoid it."

You just lost the right to bitch about how a Region sets its dues and spends its money because YOU NO LONGER BELONG.



the whole conundrum with the volunteer organization is like this in my head;

1) joe runs the region/races this way
2) bob politely suggests it would be done better another way
3) joe isn't so sure that's true, and doesn't feel like expending the energy to find out
4) bob doesn't pressure joe about it, because he understands joe is a volunteer, and on some level it's not fair to criticize how a volunteer does his volunteering
5) joe keeps doing it the way he's always done it because he knows it *works* and he can expend minimal effort to accomplish the end goal, after all, he has a regular job, wife, and kids to tend to.

in the end, nothing changes. joe has done his part by volunteering, but bob has also done his part by trying to provide a solution to what he see's as a problem. nobody is to blame, nobody is at fault, but still nothing changes, and improvements that would benefit all are not realized.

Bob has done squat. In a volunteer organization, those willing to do the work get to pick the work they do and they way they do it. These aren't paid positions and forcing people to do anything else results in a position vacancy. The organization can force them to do something new or in a different way, but push the vols far enough and they walk. Gawd help us if we had to pay to get the outstanding service we get from our vols... think what 60 employees for 20+ hours would do to entry fees.

When I headed PR for my Region, one of the tasks was lugging battery-powered kiddie cars to various functions that never got us a single member or even people who kept the race schedules we handed them. After 3 of these time wasters, I told the BoD I wouldn't have anything to do with the cars again even though it was part of the position. Someone else would have to do it.

Lots of members thought the cars were great. People complained that we weren't using the cars anymore, but you know what? Not one damn person stepped up to volunteer to lug those f'ing things around and round up the people to keep the kids from crashing into each other.

[tom_sprecher]

Regrettably I got off course earlier here but I just wanted to add something after allowing myself to get my Irish up and was too lazy to start another post. And to be honest I don't think the subjects of regional dues and regional expenses are too dissimilar that they can not be discussed in the same light. To that end, the cost increase to pay every volunteer has piqued my curiosity and I would like to do a quick study of other racing regions experiences. If any of you are involved with the executive or race boards for your region if you could chime in that would be great.


How many volunteers does it take (or should take) to put on a race at a track with say 12-14 corner stations and the GCR required number of support staff?
Is your EV and Med staffed by volunteers or paid personnel?
How many volunteers does it take to cover regional administration?
What would be a fair wage that you would pay to acquire and retain trained personnel based on their level of expertise?
How many volunteers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
If anyone with NASA experience can make a comparison on the above questions that would be helpful.
Depending on the responses I'll start another thread or keep it here if that's OK. Thanks.

[jjjanos]

I just found out that here we are less than 30 SCCA members and in order to cover for much of the racing expenses the regional dues must be enough to at least to break even. I am trying to do my part and promote new members.

I think I have found the problem... the dues shouldn't be subsidizing the racing programs. If it costs you $10K to put on an event and you get 100 entries, the entry fee should be pretty darn close to $100 for the event. Region dues should be set to cover the cost of having the member and the benefits associated with being a member, i.e. newsletters, a Region website, storing records, non-racing equipment, creating a rainy day fund for off-season expenses, etc.

IMO, Regions shouldn't be putting on events that lose money on a regular basis unless there is some hope of turning a surplus on the event.


I am completely convinced that once we locally start with a strong autocross program and the local Rally club join, we will become a much stronger region but until then we are stuck with a very steep regional due.

Why isn't the autocross program self-sufficient? Is it start up costs? Is it operation costs? The first needs seed money or possibly rent/borrow equipment from another club. The second is a fast way to bankrupt your Region.

[jjjanos]

How many volunteers does it take (or should take) to put on a race at a track with say 12-14 corner stations and the GCR required number of support staff?
Is your EV and Med staffed by volunteers or paid personnel?
How many volunteers does it take to cover regional administration?
What would be a fair wage that you would pay to acquire and retain trained personnel based on their level of expertise?
If anyone with NASA experience can make a comparison on the above questions that would be helpful.


Summit Point has 11 flag stations (10 corners + S/F). In theory, we could get by with 6 of them staffed(1,3, 5,8,10, SF) so 12 people. Comfort suggests that 10 stations should be staffed and some of them require more than the GCR minimum of 2 people - call it 25 at the absolute bare minimum and that would mean NOBODY across the track. Figure 20 hours at $8-$10/hour (factoring in wages, taxes, insurance, permits, etc.).

[gran racing]

Like Dick said, it really seems like you've got to reduce those membership fees. Between the region fee and then tack on the other national fees...eeek!

Might there be any value for this other Road Racing organization to merge with your SCCA region?

Are there any other fund raisers you could do to help raise some capital? Contact other regions for ideas, and the National office (Mike Dickerson is fantastic to work with and has a wealth of ideas on these types of subjects).

Where abouts in PR is the region located / looking to host various events?

[tom_sprecher]

Travis - you're a financial analyst overseeing billions of dollars in annual spend on a daily basis, right? In the US, on average, what % is the total of every cost associated with labor (salaries, wages, other compension, taxes, benefits, insurance, 401k matching, etc.) with repsect a companies to total revenue? Just ballpark it.

[tnord]

damnit....if forgot to put jjjjjjjjjjjjanos on ignore on this board.

i'm not racing this year, i get nothing from the region, i receive none of the benefits, why should i write them a check? I'll be back next year, just chill out there sparky. if nothing else, my service to the region last year has bought me a 1yr grace period. yeah, that's right....i'm someone who actually DID volunteer his time, attended board meetings, ran for a board position, and i still think there's plenty we could do better.

the idea that if you don't volunteer you can't speak is total shit. what in the world would a region even do with 500+ volunteers?

i'm pretty sure if you actually had qualified employees whose job it was to figure out how to lower operating costs, they would. just because you start paying people to do a job doesn't mean entry fees, regional dues, etc would automatically go up. i get paid to do this in real life, and i've certainly paid my salary many times over.

and believe it or not, there are certain volunteers that actually do more harm than good, and the region would be better off without. :eek:

pretty tough to tell a volunteer to go away though.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The volunteer issue has gone a little too far. It's actually a very simple thing:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
No one person has all the answers
Volunteers need to be open to ideas
Non-volunteers need to understand that critisism without alternate ideas/solutions is NOT productive
When a volunteer asks 'you' to become part of the solution, it means focusing some of your energy on HELPING make things better
Most volunteers do what they do because they want to do the best they can - and probably started because they saw something they thought they could improve.

NV's need to remember that V's are trying there best in most cases...and V's need to remember that just because they are a V - doesn't entitle them to not try their best.

[tnord]

Travis - you're a financial analyst overseeing billions of dollars in annual spend on a daily basis, right? In the US, on average, what % is the total of every cost associated with labor (salaries, wages, other compension, taxes, benefits, insurance, 401k matching, etc.) with repsect a companies to total revenue? Just ballpark it.

not a valid question. this will vary way too much across industries.

without getting into proprietary information.....i can say if SCCA wanted to provide benefits to their employees should they go this way, i bet it would add about 50% to the labor cost.

[tom_sprecher]

I just though since you do financial analysis in "real life" you might have an idea of what the US average would be. It seems like a valid question to me since the term "average" would do just that across all industries.

But that's OK, if you don't know, I'll just Google it.

[tnord]

I just though since you do financial analysis in "real life" you might have an idea of what the US average would be. It seems like a valid question to me since the term "average" would do just that across all industries.


except in real life you don't care about the national average, you care about how you're positioned within the industry.

[IPRESS]

Jake,
Pass the popcorn, my boy Tnord has his ladel out stirring the pot.:D:026::OLA:

[jumbojimbo]

Just for fun let's turn this around.

How would you as a racer (volunteer) feel about having someone else tell you how to run your racing?

what if a corner worker told you that you could save money by running fewer races? (just like when someone above told a region to put on fewer races)

What if some guy who used to be a starter told you that you could save money by driving a slower car?

what if your region passed a motion to ask you to negotiate with your tire vendor more like a mixed martial arts fighter and less like a girl scout?

And why the heck do you have that big tow rig when you could get a dolly and tow with a ranger pick up.

This is pretty much what you're doing if you ask you region or your workers to do something different than they are doing. Suggestions with merit are fine. But I won't be surprised when you don't sell your car and buy an ITC car just because I think it would save you some money.

I'm pretty sure most of you would say "hey, if you don't like how I run my race program, buy your own car"? so why be surprised when that is the answer you get?

Wow, we just can't get on topic here. I'm going to suggest to the original poster that he start a new thread about "my region is tiny, what can we do?"

jim

[Andy Bettencourt]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1402/890797475_fcb8ee5903.jpg?v=0

[tnord]

Mac I retired my ladel long ago, i use a boat oar now.

[RX3]

If Toni has set your Regional dues at that rate he has priced it to high for most people. Your member are going to come from people that want to solo and just want to be member and $150 is alot just to be a member of the Puerto Rico Region. And remember your National dues would come on top of that. And you can be a member for just the weekend for $10.


Hello everyone:
Here goe the WHY I asked about regional dues. Puerto Rico is now an SCCA region and it's dues have been set at $150.00, we are going through a very hard transition because here there is another Road Racing organization that has been present for the las 35 years and have used the SCCA categories and somewhat accommodate them to our local scenario, and they run under the FIA umbrella.

I just found out that here we are less than 30 SCCA members and in order to cover for much of the racing expenses the regional dues must be enough to at least to break even. I am trying to do my part and promote new members.

I am completely convinced that once we locally start with a strong autocross program and the local Rally club join, we will become a much stronger region but until then we are stuck with a very steep regional due.

I did not mean for you guy to start flaming your regions but at the same time I admired your courage to speak what in your mind, and that does not make any bit of anti SCCA but on the contrary very much in favor.

Thanks you,

[tom_sprecher]

That popcorn is gonna get stale. There's no point in having a discussion when the other guy's just lobbing it barely over the net...

Like this;


except in real life you don't care about the national average, you care about how you're positioned within the industry.

I don't care about real life. You claim to be an expert but can't answer a simple question. Do the math.

[tnord]

sorry tom, i don't keep track of meaningless statistics.

[mustanghammer]

Am I on the Production Car Forum by mistake....

[tom_sprecher]

What meaningless statistic? You're the expert, right? Do the math and get back to me.

And thanks for proving my point.

I don't care to play at this level so I'm done.

[AE86ITA]

If Toni has set your Regional dues at that rate he has priced it to high for most people. Your member are going to come from people that want to solo and just want to be member and $150 is alot just to be a member of the Puerto Rico Region. And remember your National dues would come on top of that. And you can be a member for just the weekend for $10.

The way I see it regional dues shoould be just to cover the administrative cost that takes to maintain ones membership such as;


paper
ink
stamps
staples
provide SCCA regional support
etc

So far the only approach that SCCA has taken is the Club Racing and I am confident that once the autocross gets going those will be the bigger crowd. Events should be self financed and if running club racing is too expensive to run then that crowd should carry the bigger load .

[lateapex911]

http://jalopnik.com/398895/danica-patrick-milka-duno-in-towel+snapping-cat-fight-at-mid+ohio

[ddewhurst]

***Am I on the Production Car Forum by mistake....***

:o :shrug: :happy204:

I was thinking the same thing. BUT, I didn't want to offend any of the senesitive people on this site.

You guy's ain't $hit unless you can keep this worthless thread going for 37 pages as has been done on the Production site bitching about a tech guy who chose the opposite option for an infraction than the option the Production car traditionalists prefered. :024:

EDIT:

***Danica Patrick, Milka Duno In Towel-Snapping Cat Fight At Mid-Ohio (http://jalopnik.com/398895/danica-patrick-milka-duno-in-towel+snapping-cat-fight-at-mid+ohio)***

Jake, I wouldn't call that a cat fight.

[ramoncito89]

so NATIVO it doesn't matter wright? were still going to be there for the event and you know we always been talking about SCCA in PR and before it was nothing but pure speculation and Im looking at this like finally we have another choice out of our internal CCCPR VS PRRRA road racing civil wars so mi friend I have already decided to pay $250.00 for the ITA inscription doble headder plus the 60 dollars scca member fee so I will be waiting for you corolla at the green flag.

[tnord]

sorry david, i'm not going to go back and forth on this any longer.

i'm not going to "go do the math" on it because it's a worthless piece of information. if you want to go look up something stupid like the annual revenue and labor cost of those listed on the S&P 500, have a grand ol time with that.


So far the only approach that SCCA has taken is the Club Racing and I am confident that once the autocross gets going those will be the bigger crowd. Events should be self financed and if running club racing is too expensive to run then that crowd should carry the bigger load .

by "SCCA" do you mean your region?

imo, you're going about this all backwards. i would try and build a membership with LOW regional dues first (like $10), and then once your membership is built up, you will have the people and the motivated membership to put on a successful event that's financially sustainable. the downside is that it may take some time before that can happen.

[AE86ITA]

so NATIVO it doesn't matter wright? were still going to be there for the event and you know we always been talking about SCCA in PR and before it was nothing but pure speculation and Im looking at this like finally we have another choice out of our internal CCCPR VS PRRRA road racing civil wars so mi friend I have already decided to pay $250.00 for the ITA inscription doble headder plus the 60 dollars scca member fee so I will be waiting for you corolla at the green flag.

Don't forget the $75.00 for the competition license fee.

here is the complete list of fees


$60.00 SCCA
$150.00 Regional fee
$75.00 Competition license
$250.00 Inscription for event
$535.00 total for our first SCCA event ever
Being in the first ever inaugural SCCA Guayacan Region event.............Priceless

[AE86ITA]

Anyone knows

-which is the smallest SCCA Region
-how many members it has
-their regional dues
-By definition what are the regionals fee real purposes?

Thanks

[jumbojimbo]

It depends on what you mean by "By definition what are the regionals fee real purposes".

If you mean the official, legal purpose the answer is that there is no defined purpose unless your regional by-laws state one. for example your by-laws could state that regional dues will be used for the following purposes only: newsletter, website, parties, meeting sites. which would mean that the money could not be used for other purposes.

but more likely the by-laws do not state a "use it only for this and nothing else" rule. in most regions there is an executive committee with responsibility for the money. and they usually vote on a budget and approve expenses. Sometimes (ahem) there will be a region where the regional executive thinks he knows everything and will demand veto power on all spending. then you can have a bit of a power struggle. I'd bet most regional by-laws are not written well enough to do more than provide guidance and regions pretty much do what they have been doing for years by consensus. It's not until $40k disappears that a region takes a hard look at its by-laws.

so if you are a member wondering where your $250 is going, the answer is to look at the region by-laws and see what is allowed. Pprobably it goes into a general pot of money used for whatever the region needs money for and used as the regional executive committee sees fit. If you don't like it there is probably a process to change your regional by-laws. and/or you can elect new officers.

If you are an officer of the region then the answer is to look at your by-laws and see what they allow you to do. Chances are you can do anything you want and ethics are your only limit. IE, you can't buy yourself a new car and if you use it for strippers you have to share.

I tend to agree with what Travis said earlier. I think it is better to have the lowest regional dues possible and get as many people in the room. And then work from there. I realize that with a small group that needs startup capital this is not always possible. But I think limiting your membership to only those who really really really care already is not a good idea. You really need to bring in as many people as possible and then get them involved. Not the other way around.

jim

[CDS]

Anyone knows

-which is the smallest SCCA Region
-how many members it has
-their regional dues
-By definition what are the regionals fee real purposes?

Thanks

As treasurer of the Mississippi region, I can chime in on this. We have approximately 40-45 current members (I don't have a current list handy), which makes us one of the smallest regions. Our annual region dues are $15.00. We are an autocross only region, no racing, rallycross or road rally programs. Our region dues don't cover our per-member costs such as postage, insurance, euipment maintenance, ect., and we depend on profits from our autocross events for the majority of our cash flow. We budget about $20,000 per year in entry fees from our events, and try to manage our expenses to end each year with a $2k-3k surplus to add to our "rainy day/equipment upgrade" fund. On a well-attended autocross event, we will clear $600-800 after expenses. If attendance is down, we do well to break even.

[dickita15]

That is one of the reasons Topeka subsidizes convention attendance for the smallest regions.
That is one of the interesting things you learn when you travel around. There is no typical region, the makeup varies some to fit local needs. I am part of the second largest region or as I like to say the largest region east of the San Andres fault line. we have a Board of directors plus separate boards that run racing, solo and rally/rallycross.

[AE86ITA]

More on this subject in the SCCA forums

http://www.sccabb.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6926&PN=1&TPN=1

Thanks

[Rud]

That is one of the reasons Topeka subsidizes convention attendance for the smallest regions.
That is one of the interesting things you learn when you travel around. There is no typical region, the makeup varies some to fit local needs. I am part of the second largest region or as I like to say the largest region east of the San Andres fault line. we have a Board of directors plus separate boards that run racing, solo and rally/rallycross.

Technically speaking, most of SFR is also east of the San Andreas. :)