What to do when it goes wrong....

[lateapex911]

So, down in the NE section, there's a tread about the events at the track. While that thread is about specific things, I thought a more general discussion might be in order.

So, what do you do when you screw up? Or, what do you think SHOULD be done.

Case in point, on an out lap in qualifying, I came up on a CRX with a gaggle of cars behind me. Typical deal, lots' of different speeds, and classes. Not wanting to slow others up mid corner, I eased out t move by him on the following straight. (Watkins Glen NASCAR straight returning from the boot section.) As I moved alongside, another car pulled out and began to pass me. Then ANOTHER Car made it 4 wide. By this point, I was even alongside the CRX, and the 4th guy startled the third guy who eased into me. We were close (4 WIDE!), and before I knew it, the steering wheel was wrenched from my hands hard right (the front of his front tire hit the back of mine, equaling instant one wheel braking), and I slammed into him, then bounced off him, and returned to hit the guardrail nice and hard. The car could move under it's own power so I dragged it off course to avoid the dreaded full course yellow/ probable end of session the Glen always does for any stopped car.

The impact was enough to break a couple of my ribs, and the FR susp. was all bent, requiring the help of half a dozen guys, a porta power and lots of new parts for me to race the next day.

But, before I even considered that, right after I convinced the ambulance that followed me to my paddock spot that there was nothing wrong with me, I went to find the CRX guy, and apologised profusely. At he time, I had no idea why it had happened, but regardless, his car was a mess. I offered to bring all my tools over, and help rebuild it, or to drive to stores getting whatever he needed. I offered cash. He was pissed, and thought I was a dolt. I think he tried to control himself, but it was clear he was steamed. He basically told me that I had wrecked his car, and that it would be best if I just went away. Fair enough.

As i walked back, a friend who was behind during the incident me showed me the video, (thanks the stars for video!!!!) and it was clear that the third car moved into me. We went over and showed the CRX guy, who watched, nodded, and then turned to me and said it still sucked, but he was pleased I had gone over initially. We shook and left to lick our respective wounds.

The third guy never approached either of us, had no real damage, and I was a bit irked.

I felt like a complete ass right after the incident, but once it's done, it's done, and all I could do was try to help fix it.

What's your standard on how you handle a screw up? How do you want someone to handle it if they screw your car up?

In my eyes, if you cause, or are partially responsible for an incident, you should:

-Seek the other guy out as soon as practical. If you can't, find a friend to get word to him somehow.

- If it's determined that you blew it, offer what you can to make it right. If it means you don't race the next day, then that's the way it goes. If you can't do anything labor-wise, find someone who can for you, or pay someone. Do whatever you can to make sure the guy races the next day.

- If the damage needs after event remediation, offer to help by calling in favors from your mechanic, bodyshop or whatever connections if it's convenient to the other guy.

Now, if it's a racing deal, and you are both agree that blame is shared, lick wounds, shake hands, and get back out there. In that case, I think it's good sportsmanship for whoever is hurt most to get assistance from the other.

In most cases, I think the mere fact that you made a sincere offer to help will mean more to the other guy than the actual help. In many cases the distance makes pitching in after the event impossible. But to me, it's better to go a bit overboard than it is to ignore the situation. This is of course, about club racing. Pro racing is a whole 'nuther deal!

What to others think?

[Doc Bro]

For me a discussion is priority one. Before I even take the suit off. It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

R

[lateapex911]

If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

R

LOL. I've witnessed that! When i nudged you in the bumper up the hill I thought, "Well, this is either going to be just fine, or just NOT fine!"

That was a fun race.....

[JeffYoung]

I agree.

For me a discussion is priority one. Before I even take the suit off. It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

R

[dj10]

1st and most......calm down, a calm person will be mostly a rational person.
2. make sure you get all the facts straight
3. do not go over and stick your head in someones car and start screaming, you just my pull back a stump, and make sure it's the right person & car.
4. approach the person and talk to them calmly. most rational people will talk it out rather than fight. offer to go over any video and talk to witnesses.
If all of these don't work, remind them that payback just may be a medivac! ;~)

[dominojd]

For me a discussion is priority one. Before I even take the suit off. It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

R

That's right. Keep those Jack Handles away from Rob. :D Think we forgot?

[tnord]

i've been in a few incidents. sometimes with friends, sometimes with people i couldn't pick out of a two person lineup.

the one time it was with a friend was my biggest wreck, and it was the last lap on sunday, for lead of the race. afterwards i asked if he was alright, and we helped each other load our cars on the trailer (it was sunday), and went home. even though i knew what happened, i didn't say anything, and he asked to see my video at a later time. afterwards he admitted fault, i told him not to worry, and that no matter whose fault it was i know it wasn't intentional or stupid move by either of us. that's racing. shit happens. we're still good friends to this day.

another time when it was my fault (first lap, we both continued with a minor wrinkle), i walked over immediately after the race was over and apologized. "i thought i could get it slowed down in time, but i guess i was wrong." the contact was minor enough he didn't care in the least, but said he appreciated me coming over on my own.

yet another time.......a guy was i felt blatantly blocking me all race. i had to start DFL that day, and couldn't make a pass stick on a VW with big power i normally outqualify by multiple seconds. i was pretty pissed about the blocking already, and then he turned down on me......at track out.....when i was on the inside. a left hand turn, we were tracking out, and i was on the left, and he turned in on me. that really set me off. i was so mad at the end of the race i knew it wouldn't be smart to go approach him even though i'd never met the guy. i walked straight to the stewards and filled out paper.

so yeah, if you're really that mad, and it's JUSTIFIED, it's probably best to just file a protest instead of a personal confrontation.

[IPRESS]

Travis you PO'd.........I can't imagine......:rolleyes::rolleyes::D

I have been on both sides, and it is best to calm down and then talk. Most of my contact has required I calm down and then go talk to the wall in such and such Turn!
So far the wall has been at fault every time!

[Sandro]

here is what not to do:

trying to solve the problem by blowing up on a messageboard, the original poster is the dad of the driver that was hit

http://www.calclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2854

[MMiskoe]

I agree with most of it all except this:



It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it


Make it known you want to talk to the guy, but if either side has any amount of hot headedness, admit that point and ask to have the discussion in a half hour. Its amazing how straight the facts can get w/ a little time, whereas all sorts of bad things happen when tempers are leading the charge.

Where it is unknown why the incident happened, be clear that your side is your opinion but if someone else can prove otherwise you'll stand up for what ever comes your way.

It is astounding to me how many times people will not come find you in the paddock.

Matt

[RSTPerformance]

Does everyone know that we have "Driver Advisors?" They are stewards that are assigned to helping you resolve your problems and help if needed when deciding and/or when going through the protest process.

If you have ANY issue at all and want to talk to a driver, I suggest getting the driver advisor first and using them to help you. If you prefer go visit the driver with the steward (you then have an official witness should an altercation occur) or ask them to page the driver to the tower and talk about the incident that happened. Let them be the "middleman" if needed to get your point across. At that point you can decide if you want to protest or not. If the person made a mistake it may also make them realize that the issue has been brought to the attention of others and that maybe they need to really think about their actions/driving habits.

Raymond "It’s an interesting topic having been on all the sides... the victim, the aggressor, the advisor, and the steward" Blethen

[trobbins]

I've been on both sides of the situation .
One particular race I had the oppourtunity to race a friends GTL Mini Cooper .
I had qualified on the outside row in position 4 right next to a Panoz .
This was a closed wheel Co-Driver race at Waterford Hills .
First lap going into turn 2 the back end of the mini steps out drivers right , I get it corrected and the panoz and I are still side by side . This little tail wiggle was apparentlt enough to sppok the Panoz driver as as I recall and as the video showed she took an evasive manuver to her right or inside of the track untill the curbing was coming up and she needed more track .
Long story short her left front into the mini's right rear sent me around and I was hit in the right rear tire quarter panel by a 1967 Chevy Corvair . :eek: Yea , hard hit . OUCH .
Yup I felt like a huge chump for crashing out a friends car .
It wasn't untill after the car was towed into the pits that we discovered someone behind us had video .
I helped fix the mini untill about 12:30 in the morning and the next day she told me I hadn't had enough time in the car and offered me the car for the feature race .
By the way the Panoz driver never even came to see if I was ok . After I cooled down I went to talk to her and she denied even getting into the corner of my car . :shrug:
Her and her husband are now racing the panoz in a "Pro" series .

There are more to tell but I've gone on long enough .
Moral of the story is , even if your a little unsure of the situation always go and offer some sort of condolence . A plastic trophy just isn't worth the aggravation .

[Dave Zaslow]

I agree that as a driver at fault it is imperative to go through the full regimen you suggest.

I have been the 'hitter' because of a bonehead optimistic move and offered to da all of the above and pay for the new door the other car needed.

I have been hit and taken out in qualifying and had the other driver (who took out another car in the same move) tell the two of us to piss-off. We went to the stewards who promised to watch him. They did as he destroyed another car as well as his, in the race. I don't think he's been back since....

We all must take care of each other out there and be responsible for our actions when things go wrong.

DZ





What's your standard on how you handle a screw up? How do you want someone to handle it if they screw your car up?

In my eyes, if you cause, or are partially responsible for an incident, you should:

-Seek the other guy out as soon as practical. If you can't, find a friend to get word to him somehow.

- If it's determined that you blew it, offer what you can to make it right. If it means you don't race the next day, then that's the way it goes. If you can't do anything labor-wise, find someone who can for you, or pay someone. Do whatever you can to make sure the guy races the next day.

- If the damage needs after event remediation, offer to help by calling in favors from your mechanic, bodyshop or whatever connections if it's convenient to the other guy.

Now, if it's a racing deal, and you are both agree that blame is shared, lick wounds, shake hands, and get back out there. In that case, I think it's good sportsmanship for whoever is hurt most to get assistance from the other.

In most cases, I think the mere fact that you made a sincere offer to help will mean more to the other guy than the actual help. In many cases the distance makes pitching in after the event impossible. But to me, it's better to go a bit overboard than it is to ignore the situation. This is of course, about club racing. Pro racing is a whole 'nuther deal!

What to others think?

[planet6racing]

Does everyone know that we have "Driver Advisors?" They are stewards that are assigned to helping you resolve your problems and help if needed when deciding and/or when going through the protest process.




Not all regions/divisions have driver advisors.

In (5) years of racing, I have yet to make contact with another car on course. Of course, now that I said that...

[gsbaker]

Not all regions/divisions have driver advisors.

In (5) years of racing, I have yet to make contact with another car on course. Of course, now that I said that...
And that includes racing without a steering wheel. :happy204:

[gran racing]

Anytime I hear that Glen story, I shake my head in disbelief. During qualifying??? That sucks big time.


It needs to be done immediately.


While I agree it should be done soon, immediately will often cause more issues than good. Like Matt, I believe it’s better to have a few minutes for both parties to cool off, absorb what happened, and collect their thoughts.

The first thing I want to do is review the video if one exists. This information can be so valuable! I think back to the ’05 ARRC and my incident with an ITC car and another ITB car. Taking the minute or two to review the video first made quite a difference on the overall outcome of my discussion with the ITC driver. Initially he was extremely upset with me. I showed him the video which totally changed the conversation. I know that if I had just gone over there immediately the conversation would have gone differently.


or ask them to page the driver to the tower and talk about the incident that happened.

As soon as a person hears their name being called to the tower, they will immediately go on the defense. In most situations I’d rather have an initial discussion with the person unless I’m just too pissed.

While I agree it’s a good idea to bring a crew member to the conversation you have with another driver, if I were approached by the “liason driver” I’d wonder what’s going on.

The way I handle the situation will also vary dependant upon if I’ve been racing with the driver for while and we’ve respected each out on the track, if I don’t know him at all, and if I think the incident was done intentionally (if I beleive it’s his fault). The later of these situations is the one situation I'll head to the tower instead of seeking out the driver.

[joeg]

All our races have Stewards...though.

Face it, you are on your own out there. The best rule is to avoid contact and avoid situations where contact is likely.

Go beat on a panel before making or inviting apology visits.

[spnkzss]

This has always been an interesting thing to me. In a perfect world, 1.) If I feel it's my fault (read, I'm not pissed) I go over immediately. I'll take the beating and apologize/try to make it right. 2.) if I feel it's their fault (read, I'M PISSED) then I want to wait and calm down before I go find them. I also hope that time they will allow them to come find me. Most of the time, I just want an apology. I haven't had someone else's actions total my car so I don't have an opinion on what else I would want from them.

The problem with this logic is, you only have 30 minutes post race to protest. I can take more than 15 minutes too cool down. Then I have to find my rep. Then I have to make my way to the tower, blah blah blah. If I wait too long and feel I need to act, I normally don't have enough time.

The adrenaline rush is rough. I ALWAYS take someone else with me to get in between if I have to. Not to keep them from getting to me, but to prevent me from getting to them. The worst time I had the driver pushed me off in 4 different corners. The last one was at T3 at Summit. Literally pushed me into the gravel. The argument got no where. He didn't get it. His kids were there, his wife was there, my brother grabbed me and said it's not worth it and pulled me away.

What can you do? Type A personalities + adrenaline + feeling of being wronged = bad situation at times.

I personally would like to see the protest window be opened from 30 min to 60 min for non mechanical protests. You might get more protests, you might get less, but at least most would be done with a little cooler head.

[gran racing]

The problem with this logic is, you only have 30 minutes post race to protest.

I agree with the notion of extending the published time limit. If a person doesn't feel like they can come to a resolution within 30 minutes, vist the steward and let them know you'd like to speak with the driver and others before filing a protest, and ask if they'd extend the time limitation. I believe in most situations they will allow this - I've only tested this out once and they did.

[mustanghammer]

Not all regions/divisions have driver advisors.

In (5) years of racing, I have yet to make contact with another car on course. Of course, now that I said that...

Oh no - never say that! I did and got clobbered in my 6th year!

The key is to communicate. The only inccident of note that I have been in occurred last year. I think both of us felt that the other driver was at fault and so we were both waiting on the other party to start the communication/explanation process. As a result nothing was said until the next race. This created an unresolved issue that festered in the back of my mind as I beat and welded my car back into racing condition. It also created an uneasy situation on the track and it put a damper on things for me.

As far as the incident was concerned I don't feel it was my fault however I am to blame for not speaking with the other driver the day it happened.

[tnord]

actually, the one time i filed a protest, i was told i had 30min to notify the stewards of my intention of filing a protest, not 30 min to actually complete everything.

[erlrich]

What's your standard on how you handle a screw up? How do you want someone to handle it if they screw your car up?

In my eyes, if you cause, or are partially responsible for an incident, you should:

-Seek the other guy out as soon as practical. If you can't, find a friend to get word to him somehow.

- If it's determined that you blew it, offer what you can to make it right. If it means you don't race the next day, then that's the way it goes. If you can't do anything labor-wise, find someone who can for you, or pay someone. Do whatever you can to make sure the guy races the next day.

- If the damage needs after event remediation, offer to help by calling in favors from your mechanic, bodyshop or whatever connections if it's convenient to the other guy.

What to others think?
Maybe I'm in the minority, but unless I did something so completely boneheaded and blatantly stupid that there was zero excuse for my actions, I would feel like it was a racing deal. I would certainly seek out the other driver and apologize to him, and try to offer some explanation for what happened, but let's face it, this IS auto racing, and shit DOES happen. Likewise, unless another driver did something that I felt was totally avoidable, or worse intentional I would never expect anything other than an apology and explanation from him. I would certainly not expect him to pay to repair my car. If his actions warranted it I might consider taking the cost out of his ass, and of course filing a protest would be in order; but I go into this sport with the full knowledge that on any given day I could be taking my car (and my ass) home in pieces, and accept that risk every time I go out on track.

Now, I have to qualify that answer by saying that I've only been involved in any serious contact once - well, twice actually - but they both occurred within one lap and were somewhat related, so I only count it as one :D, and so I don't have a lot of experience to draw from.

[JLawton]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but unless I did something so completely boneheaded and blatantly stupid that there was zero excuse for my actions, I would feel like it was a racing deal. I would certainly seek out the other driver and apologize to him, and try to offer some explanation for what happened, but let's face it, this IS auto racing, and shit DOES happen. Likewise, unless another driver did something that I felt was totally avoidable, or worse intentional I would never expect anything other than an apology and explanation from him. I would certainly not expect him to pay to repair my car. If his actions warranted it I might consider taking the cost out of his ass, and of course filing a protest would be in order; but I go into this sport with the full knowledge that on any given day I could be taking my car (and my ass) home in pieces, and accept that risk every time I go out on track.

Now, I have to qualify that answer by saying that I've only been involved in any serious contact once - well, twice actually - but they both occurred within one lap and were somewhat related, so I only count it as one :D, and so I don't have a lot of experience to draw from.


Oh shit!!! And I'll be racing with you at some point!!!????? I'll stay as far away as possible!!!

:lol:

[erlrich]

Oh shit!!! And I'll be racing with you at some point!!!????? I'll stay as far away as possible!!!

:lol:
Don't worry Jeff, I'm leaving the car at home this weekend - I'm just gonna stand at the end of pit lane and dare you guys to hit me :p - then point and laugh when you come in with the sheet metal wrinkled :lol:

Besides, you failed to pick up on the concept that I have yet to do anything boneheaded and blatantly stupid - well, at least in my opinion, which is the only one that really matters, right?

Unless of course you count letting Crazy Joe drive my car around Pocono...but I really didn't know any better at the time :shrug:

[benspeed]

I will come to your paddock and pummel you so don't hit my car. Wait, is that politically correct?

Maybe I'll just leave a giant dog poo in the driver seat of your car if you hit my car. That's more correct, right?

[JLawton]

Don't worry Jeff, I'm leaving the car at home this weekend - I'm just gonna stand at the end of pit lane and dare you guys to hit me :p - then point and laugh when you come in with the sheet metal wrinkled :lol:

Besides, you failed to pick up on the concept that I have yet to do anything boneheaded and blatantly stupid yet - well, at least in my opinion, which is the only one that really matters, right?

Unless of course you count letting Crazy Joe drive my car around Pocono...but I really didn't know any better at the time :shrug:


Thank god my plastic doesn't wrinkle!! (driving a Saturn isn't always bad!!)

Make sure you come introduce yourself this weekend!!

[Tristan Smith]

Last July I was t-boned in turn 7 at Road Atlanta by a ITS Porsche 944. My car was torn up. I think he totally screwed the pooch, and having watched his in car video as he showed it to the stewards during my protest......I was further convinced. My car was tagged and forced into a innocent bystander, a Fiero going around the outside of the corner. He and I spoke at the protest and I apologized for the damage caused to his car even though I don't feel it was my fault. I never once had the opportunity to speak with the 944 driver since he never felt it appropriate to seek me out and speak to me about it, after the incident or at the protest. It was difficult for me seek him out as I sat on the wall for the rest of the race waiting for a flatbed (the motor blew up on the next lap). I thought is was totally classless. So now I have a new approach. You hit me like that, and don't come over and argue it out with me, and I make it my life ambition to punt you off the track at every chance I get. A bit harsh maybe, but I am sick of having my car torn without as much as a "screw you".

[dominojd]

Besides, you failed to pick up on the concept that I have yet to do anything boneheaded and blatantly stupid - well, at least in my opinion, which is the only one that really matters, right?

Unless of course you count letting Crazy Joe drive my car around Pocono...but I really didn't know any better at the time :shrug:

Come on now that has to be the smartest thing you have ever done. I showed you at an early stage in your racing career WHAT NOT TO DO. :D

[erlrich]

Come on now that has to be the smartest thing you have ever done. I showed you at an early stage in your racing career WHAT NOT TO DO. :D
I think I could have probably learned that just as well by watching your in-car videos though ;)

But seriously, I will say I learned more about what my car was capable of in a few laps in the passenger seat than I would have in a few days of just being out there on my own, so in that sense all the terror was really worth it :D

[JeffYoung]

What was the outcome of the protest?

The only significant on track contact I've had in 4 years of this (fingers crossed) was at Charlotte in 04. I had to lock up to miss a guy first lap who I feel cut me off in turn 3, ran out of talent and slid up and into an innocent ITS RX7 (Russ Boatwright).

I knocked the bumper off my car and tore up a quarter panel and the door. Russ had door damage. The guy I locked them down to miss got away clean.

I went and apologized to Russ afterwards and explained what happened from my perspective. He was very gracious, much appreciated.

The guy who caused the mess (and knew it) never said a word. Makes you want to Tristan the guy! Seriously, I am a truly believer in taking a few to calm down and then and going and talking about it (whether I'm at fault or not).

Tristan is the car fixed?


Last July I was t-boned in turn 7 at Road Atlanta by a ITS Porsche 944. My car was torn up. I think he totally screwed the pooch, and having watched his in car video as he showed it to the stewards during my protest......I was further convinced. My car was tagged and forced into a innocent bystander, a Fiero going around the outside of the corner. He and I spoke at the protest and I apologized for the damage caused to his car even though I don't feel it was my fault. I never once had the opportunity to speak with the 944 driver since he never felt it appropriate to seek me out and speak to me about it, after the incident or at the protest. It was difficult for me seek him out as I sat on the wall for the rest of the race waiting for a flatbed (the motor blew up on the next lap). I thought is was totally classless. So now I have a new approach. You hit me like that, and don't come over and argue it out with me, and I make it my life ambition to punt you off the track at every chance I get. A bit harsh maybe, but I am sick of having my car torn without as much as a "screw you".

[Tristan Smith]

Hi Jeff,
yep, will be breaking in the motor tomorrow during the Rd Atl. test day, and all the body work has been done. So, it looks pretty back to normal. I have gone over the whole car, and I think everything is ok on it, but I won't know till I get it out for a few laps. But even if the car is fine, the driver is rusty, rusty, rusty! So I don't plan on making any "hard charges" to the front of the pack this weekend.

Here's an interesting tidbit. While I had the radiator ought, I gently tapped and blew out the junk in the radiator. I got a full CUP of sand and debris out of it. Man, that may explain why it running hot last year! Hey 240sx guys, CLEAN out your radiator! It may cool that dam thing done a bit. It'll be part of the pre race weekend routine for now on.

[Z3_GoCar]

Only incident I've had to date (knock on wood) were single car spin-outs. One time I kicked up dirt on the track at a high speed corner. Ralph Warren went off track to avoid me and tore his splitter off. I didn't know about any of this as it was obsured by the dust cloud. Mike Mills came over and told me about his torn splitter, and I went straight over and appologised and offered to help. I got an invatation to come over for Margareta's that evening. We do this for fun, and bowling trophies, crushed panels and possible injuries or killing someone aren't worth it to me. I leave it to the pro's for that kind of entertainment. So when I'm with others around me I drive very much mindful of that. I look at it as a high speed chess match, or how can I use my advantage with out giving away my disadvantage? If that means planning and executing a pass over several corners then so be it.

James

[Ron Earp]

I find this thread quite interesting. Many different perspectives here and some good advice as well. 2008 is my first full year racing in a class (ITS) and I made a mistake in a Carolina Cup race and hit a SRF. I found the guy immediately, apologized to him, and all was well. I also went to the steward to “turn myself in” and he was very appreciative too. The major reason I think this turned out well was the nature of the fellow I hit, a very understanding guy, and to a lesser extent being proactive and fessing up all around.

But what happens with combative personalities? What obligations as a racer do you have?

For example, what if you cause an incident and damage another guy’s car (who is well known to be something of an ass) and he demands money from you? You’re a straight up guy like many of those represented in this thread and you want to do the right thing. But you know that if the situation were reversed you’d not be getting reparations from the guy you hit.

Where is the line for “one of those racing deals”? I’m sure the line varies from situation to situation.

So Tristan is this what you've been working on in the shop space with Judson? Hope to see you back on track soon.

[JeffYoung]

You're only obligations are under the GCR, which prohibits you from being abusive or violent (as it should), and also lays out penalties if you violate the rules of the road.

Anything else is up to you.

If I did something completely stupid and tore up someone's car, I would offer to pay for it. I also would not expect someone else to do the same, because we are all on track together with the understanding that these things happen.

I'm going to use a couple of names here just because I think they handled it perfectly.

Kent Thompson and Steve Eckerich were racing hard for a win at VIR last year, and Kent got into Steve's door at the top of roller coaster. After the race, my understanding is Kent went to Steve and apologized and offered to pay for the damage. Steve declined.

Both guys = class.

[lateapex911]

Good example. Racing for the win, between two known talents is, IMO, going to result in possible contact from time to time. And that result was handled really well, I think. If I were the passer in that situation, I would have done the same thing, (but I would have been surprised if the offer was taken) and if i was the passee, I would have thanked him for the offer and the visit, but refused.

Now, if the pass occurs mid pack, between two cars in different classes, who aren't the leaders in their respective classes, and the passee has pointed a guy by in a corner, yet the passer runs the passee off the road on the exit, I see the contact as wholly avoidable, (and largely inexcusable) and while I know there are no GCR mandates, if I were the passer, i would feel indebted to pay,...something...or do something...in addition to my profuse apologies. And if I were the guy run off the road, I think I might accept partial payment of some sort. When a foul occurs that was totally unneeded, and shows either a huge lack of skill, judgment, and GCR comprehension, or a lack of respect, then I think allowing the offending parties to make good might be in order. Barring that, if I felt the passer didn't understand his wrong, then I think I'd pursue protest action.

In my eyes, there are conditions which affect the proper outcome and behavior.

[dickita15]

I am not sure I would want to go down the road of paying for others damage. There is nothing wrong with making an offer I guess but I can’t see myself accepting and while I have yet to be in a situation where I have caused significant damage and been substantially at fault. I am not sure money is the way I would try to take responsibility. We all take the risk we can handle
Besides my fenders are a lot cheaper than say Rob Breaut’s:D

[lateapex911]

Don't think Rob doesn't know that! I bet his eyes get as wide as saucers when I start dicing with him!

[JeffYoung]

Hey hey!

Tristan Smith takes second in his first race back....I guess not so rusty after all.

Good job man. May see you at Barber.

[Catch22]

Video always helps.

Immediately after Ed Ho put Renee in the turn 12 wall at the '05 ARRC enduro I was ready to have his ass hanged. I talked to the stewards, got some advice, the whole thing (after Renee was released from medical of course). After a couple of minutes of conversation (the race was still going on) Renee says something to the effect of "I'm not sure it was really Ed's fault."

Huh?
He punted you in the middle of the turn. OBVIOUSLY he's an asshat!
Right?

Well... Not so fast.
Renee's memory was fuzzy because it happened so fast and she'd just smacked a concrete wall, but she kept thinking the Miata in front of her was the issue.
Well, sure enough, when we retrieved the camera it clearly showed the Miata had checked up on turn-in, Renee had lifted and pulled right to avoid the Miata, sideswiped it just before the apex, and Ed very likely was left with nowhere to go. That ended up being the case after we all got together and talked after the race (which Ed ended up winning BTW).

Importantly, even though he had just won the ARRC enduro the first thing Ed did after rolling across the scales was find Renee and make sure she was OK. They talked, looked at video, and agreed on what happened. No hard feelings a all. Actually Renee hugged him and congratulated him on his win.

The Miata guy... Never came by. Never did nothing.
Renee finally (when I was busy trying to get a bent car on the trailer. A 6 person job with a come-along) went over to "thank" him for lifiting in turn 12 and ask what was up with that. He brushed her off mumbling about how his car was handling badly. She made sure he understood his poorly handling car took out the class leader in another class, and thanked him for his situational awareness.
She didn't tell me about this until we were home, which is why that guy still has all of his teeth. The video showed that both Ed and Renee (fighting for p1 in ITC) had attempted passes on this guy multiple times before the incident. He either outran them down the next straight or just plain blocked them. Remember, this is the p20 Miata, which the driver later said was ill handling, BLOCKING the ITC leaders. Now thats some situational awareness right there.

If you are in a SM, and you have to resort to blocking to keep ITC cars behind you, you just need to get the hell out of the way. Seriously.

A prime example of how NOT to do it and how to do it all in one incident.

Then there is also the "Thats Just Racing" stuff. I'm sure the guy I had contact with in Madness last month thinks it was my fault. I think it was his fault.
I tried to find him after the race but never did. I have no idea if he tried to find me.
<shrug>

[Ed Funk]

[quote=Catch22;270096]Video always helps.






If you are in a SM, and you have to resort to blocking to keep ITC cars behind you, you just need to get the hell out of the way. Seriously.

My answer, is these "people" need to find another sport!:024:

[spnkzss]

I I also went to the steward to “turn myself in” and he was very appreciative too.

When another car clipped my front nose going into the shoot at Summit and rolled in front of me, I went to the Stewards (after finding the guy who rolled) with camera in hand. Said I was involved in the roll at 4. They said, "Ok, why are you here? We didn't call for you." Ever since then I don't go to the tower unless beckoned. :shrug:

[shwah]

I make the effort to talk to the other party after any contact. The two most blatant 'hits' that I have taken (sideswiped in the middle of a straight in qualifying when one car pulled out to pass another, sideswiped several times along the entire side of my car on turn 3 of a race - both times by cars not racing in my class, but in a class where too many drivers seem to think that everyone is racing them...), I never heard a word from the offenders. In both cases I know they spoke to the Black Flag Steward, and at least in the case of the latter - that happening in the race served as some form of penalty. I have not yet ever considered writing paper for driving, but if the situation warranted it, I certainly would.

I have had one significant incident in class that really was just racing. We were lapping cars late in the race, that were also lapping an even slower car, and all came together at the slowest corner on the track. I got a lane on the inside, and took it, he didn't think I could get there and turned in, our front wheels hit, he got turned pretty far - made a great save as I backed out of it hard, but still ended up with a fair amount of bumper to side impact and a messed up alignment - he also went on to beat me.... The other driver was pretty hot afterwards, because he thought his car was severely injured mechanically. We still made a point to talk about it, and are still good racing friends who will race each other very hard.

In my last race, I accidentally touched the car in front of me bumper to bumper in the final turn. Neither one of us could feel anything, but he went around, and I am sure I loosened him up. He was not in my class. I asked my crew to go find him while we sat in impound, tell him that I was sorry and that I would be coming by to appologize in person. I wanted him to know as soon as possible that it was an accident on my part, and in hind sight a dumb move to try and get a 'perfect draft' off the last turn in a race that neither one of us had an in class competitor near us.

[Tristan Smith]

Hey hey!

Tristan Smith takes second in his first race back....I guess not so rusty after all.

Good job man. May see you at Barber.

Well not exactly, the fast guys all left the track early, but all went well. The car wasn't hit, the motor didn't blow up, and I knocked some of the rust off the rust. I am happy. I did have two tires break a steel belt, or have something delaminate in the tread. Once in the test day, and the second about 5 laps into sunday's race. There was a huge bulge on the inside tread. Not sure what caused that to happen on two tires (both times at the left front). My guess is they were real old (2-4 years old) and fell apart. By the end of the race, it was just about shaking the steering wheel out of my hands.

[dlg208]

I think some drivers get upset because their cars are too pretty...

You're doing them a service by installing hoopy marks :D

Keeps em from getting to obsessive and easily angered.

[dave parker]

dlg208 I think some drivers get upset because their cars are too pretty...

You're doing them a service by installing hoopy marks :D

Keeps em from getting to obsessive and easily angered.


Dave,
Great answer, thanks for not "installing" any marks on my wifes purple car in T13 at Nelson. :026:

To all.
Seriously,
If you screw up then admit to your mistake and apologize. If someone else screws up and is apologetic than accept and move on. If the other party is a fool or an ass about it than that is what the stewards are for. Don't wait for "them" (the other driver(s)) to come find you. Go talk (calmly) to them immediately. Take another person with you to be a witness. If you need to go to the tower to write the paper and throw down the $25.00. you only have thirty minutes from the time of the checkered flag.

One of the statements that I hate hearing at the shop later is "I should have protested that guy". My response is usually 'Why didn't you?"

This game is all for fun, and the fun diminishes greatly when you are looking at a wadded up racecar because of someone else's stupidity or poor judgement.

My two cents.
cheers
Dave Parker
MARRS HP #97
2007 MARRS HP Champion