*Improved Touring* 2002 Civic Si ?

[20CiviC02Si]

Hey guys i am wondering if it's possible to compete in a 2002 Civic Si. I read up on the class and realized that this car is not listed in class? Is it ineligible for the class or have they just not classified it in a class. The 1999-2000 Si is classed in ITS and the Acura RSX-S is classed ITR. I figured that the 2002 Civic Si would be placed in ITS.

[R2 Racing]

What were those things rated at? 170hp? Might be a very viable option for ITS. I imagine it's just never been considered for classification, so that's why you don't see it. Just need to ask the ITAC to look at it.

[jimmyc]

15xhp and 140ft/lbs tq (the base model RSX had 160hp but it has a different IM

With suspension similiar the the NX200 aka "the egg" it would fit into ITA at a porky weight.

The motor is an 'economy vtec' motor similar the the 92-95 VX and 96-00 HX civics.


or this car is a tweener kinda of like the 2000 civic SI

[Andy Bettencourt]

Here is the 'napkin' math on a 160hp FWDer with struts using a 25% increase:

ITA: 2850
ITS: 2480

Curb weight: 2744 (Edmunds) 160hp/132ft.lbs (Edmunds)

[prodogdriver]

In the July fastrack the ’02/03 Civic Si got listed as a Showroom stock C class car @ 2500lbs. which surprises me since every road test I read has the car listed as 2744lb curb weight.

I also own an ’02 Si that I commute to work with, it sure doesn’t feel like it could be a ITS car

You will probably have to write in to ask for an improved touring classification, IMO ask for ITA

[20CiviC02Si]

Yeah the car's curb weight is roughly 2744 with 160HP and 130TQ. I know it is categorized for Showroom Stock C class. I believe minimum weigh in SSC is 2700lbs.

Either way i would love to build the car for Improved Touring. I have a couple modifications that would have to be removed such as: lightened flywheel, and coil over suspension. Other than that the car is pretty much ready for IT. Just needs a cage, gauges, window net, kill switch, and a ton of weight removal.

So if i can get it classed in ITA or ITS i would be happy!

Does anyone have any sort of contact information in order to get the car classed? If so i would appreciate it if you could PM me or post it in here!

Thanks for the help!

[Knestis]

Any SCCA member can submit a request to have an eligible car listed in IT by submitting a request and the necessary information on a "vehicle technical specification" sheet. More at...

http://www.scca.org/contentpage.aspx?content=44

K

[20CiviC02Si]

Ok, now that i have the info on getting the car introduced to either ITS or ITA (Whichever the board chooses to place it in.). I wouldn't mind having some info on how i should go about building it for Improved Touring.

As of right now i am working on a budget for either the 2009 or 2010 season. My main issue is finding a reasonable priced roll cage to have placed within the car. King Motorsports wants $2500 for a full 8 point cage with nascar door bars. Is this reasonable? Or should i get something like an autopower roll cage and find a shop to weld it in?

As for wheels i am looking into purchasing 8 Enkei RPF1 wheels, i may go panasport as well. Essentially whichever is lighter.

Which tires do you suggest? I am looking to have a set of dry and a set or rain.

[ekim952522000]

2500$ sounds resonable to me. Don't skimp on the safety stuff.

[20CiviC02Si]

2500$ sounds resonable to me. Don't skimp on the safety stuff.No intentions on skimping, i just have had King do work before and they like to charge a little extra just because they are King Motorsports.

[prodogdriver]

lemme call a cage guy in Northern Illinois I know and get a price, that will give you a comparason

[20CiviC02Si]

lemme call a cage guy in Northern Illinois I know and get a price, that will give you a comparasonAwesome! Thanks!

[prodogdriver]

My cage guy said that $2500 was a fair price and that is about what he would charge also. King does very good work so I would suggest using them
and if you ever sell the car a ‘King’ cage is a nice selling point also

Personally I would not concern yourself with making the car fast the first year, you want a reliable and consistent car to get you thru your driver’s schools and required races for your license. For tires you might like the Toyo RA-1, good wear, reasonably fast, inexpensive & get one set full tread to use as rains. The go fast tires are the Hoosier R6’s & Hoosier dedicated rain tires

Since I own an ’02 Si street car I’m looking forward to seeing this car ‘on track’ in the future, I make it up to Road America once a year

[Bob Roth]

If you are near wisconsin, you ought to consider calling Dan Navrestad at DCA racing fabrication, LaCrosse Wi, 608 781 3929. I don't want to put words in his mouth but for about $2500, my guess is he would put a beautiful cage in, and a kerkey roadrace seat, install your gauges, bushings, your race suspension, and fabricate your exhaust. He's built 3 of my cars, with nothing but compliments on the fabrication and assembly work. He's built drag, Nascar late models, and IT, and vintage racers. Wonderful guy to work with and fabricator.

Another nice thing is we have John Severtson as a mechanic at conway Service here too. 608 782 7345. John used to work as a mechanic at realtime racing for PD Cunningham. He is presently looking after a TSX world challenge car, my Teg r enduro car, my ITS Sol VTEC, and a bunch of dirt racing hondas. He would be well qualified to rebuild the engine and trans and brakes id you want to outsource that work.

good luck

[Bob Roth]

Also, Dan would be great at welding in upper camber/caster adjustable strut mounts if needed.

[20CiviC02Si]

Thanks guys for all the help. However i went out to Gingerman Raceway in South Haven, MI for a 2 day track event. I think i am going to wait on going wheel to wheel. I really would like to, however i am only 22 and the budget just isn't there yet. I still may have a cage installed next year by king because they are just down the road from me. Just in case i decide to go for it! I think i'll just focus on doing a couple PDX Time Trials and a couple big Time Attack events for next year.

I really do appreicate all the help, and maybe i'll see you guys around at some of the regional or national events here in the Midwest. I'm not sure if i'll be going to The Run Offs but i am going to try my best to get off. Otherwise i'll be trying to get off Aug 8-10 for ALMS, World Challenge, MX5 Cup races at Road America!

If you think you'll be at these events feel free to drop me a line here!

Thanks Again! I'll be seeing you all around.

[20CiviC02Si]

Well i may bring this idea back to the drawing board. I have realized that my EP3 has over 100k miles on the chassis and i have another DD that i can drive. So building the EP3 could become reality if i simply put my mind to it.

I understand that i should not concern myself with making it fast, and just safe and reliable. Now my question is this: "What is the minimum i would have to do to make my car qualify for ITA?"

I am currently waiting on the 09 GCR to come out for complete guidelines, and to ensure no changes have been made since.

[Xian]

Bare minimum would be:

Cage with door bars
Roll Cage padding
Seat with Harness
Kill Switch wiring
Steering lock removed
Glass Moonroof replaced/skinned
Airbags disabled
ABS disabled
Tow hooks front and rear
Decals
Transponder

I'm sure I'm missing some little stuff but that's all I can think of right off the cuff. For the price of the stuff above, you could buy a "ready to race" used car and sell your 02 Civic... net cost to you would be very little. This would leave $$ for the actual racing budget.

Christian

[KMartin]

Why would you disable the ABS??

[Greg Amy]

Why would you disable the ABS??
Because it's required by the Improved Touring regulations...?

[KMartin]

Damn....Missed that line. Add that to the list. Thanks!

What is the thinking behind that?

[Greg Amy]

What is the thinking behind that?
When IT was developed in the early 80's, ABS was non-existent. As new cars have been added in over the years, ABS was disallowed because it adds in a "performance advantage" that is not accounted for in the classification process.

Some day that may change - or maybe we'll do an "adder" if you've got ABS installed and working - but for now, out it goes... - GA

[KMartin]

Makes sense...

Thanks!

[jay05]

Bare minimum would be:

Cage with door bars
Roll Cage padding
Seat with Harness
Kill Switch wiring
Steering lock removed
Glass Moonroof replaced/skinned
Airbags disabled
ABS disabled
Tow hooks front and rear
Decals
Transponder

I'm sure I'm missing some little stuff but that's all I can think of right off the cuff. For the price of the stuff above, you could buy a "ready to race" used car and sell your 02 Civic... net cost to you would be very little. This would leave $$ for the actual racing budget.

Christian
What he said. Then you can concentrate on driver development, not car development.

[R2 Racing]

Evan Darling's selling a 100% ready to race ITA CRX, with current logbook, for $3000. I'm just saying.


It boggles my mind when n00bs want to build what's sitting in their driveway. Do you have an extra $20K laying around to put into a car that won't be faster than that $5K pre-built car you passed up and could've been racing two years ago? If so, go for it. Most of the guys you see building their own cars have probably already gone through one or two pre-bought one's before, can recite the GCR from memory, have all the tools and connections necessary to build one, know how to get the best "band for the buck" as they buy parts for their car, and are just anal retentive enough to know exactly the way they personally like everything in an IT car, and then demand to have it that way.

[20CiviC02Si]

Bare minimum would be:

Cage with door bars
Roll Cage padding
Seat with Harness
Kill Switch wiring
Steering lock removed
Glass Moonroof replaced/skinned
Airbags disabled
ABS disabled
Tow hooks front and rear
Decals
Transponder

I'm sure I'm missing some little stuff but that's all I can think of right off the cuff. For the price of the stuff above, you could buy a "ready to race" used car and sell your 02 Civic... net cost to you would be very little. This would leave $$ for the actual racing budget.

ChristianI just can't seem to part with my 2002. So this is why i am considering turning it into a race car.

[20CiviC02Si]

Evan Darling's selling a 100% ready to race ITA CRX, with current logbook, for $3000. I'm just saying.


It boggles my mind when n00bs want to build what's sitting in their driveway. Do you have an extra $20K laying around to put into a car that won't be faster than that $5K pre-built car you passed up and could've been racing two years ago? If so, go for it. Most of the guys you see building their own cars have probably already gone through one or two pre-bought one's before, can recite the GCR from memory, have all the tools and connections necessary to build one, know how to get the best "band for the buck" as they buy parts for their car, and are just anal retentive enough to know exactly the way they personally like everything in an IT car, and then demand to have it that way.

You have a good point. Right now i have a couple prebuilt cars that i have my eye set on. However i am thinking of all the possibilities that surround me. It wouldn't really cost all that much to get my car where it needs to be. Probably right around $7000 to get it there.

I would just love to race this car because i know the car so well.

[Xian]

I just can't seem to part with my 2002. So this is why i am considering turning it into a race car.

Let me take a moment to tell you: You're Doing it WRONG. ;)


You have a good point. Right now i have a couple prebuilt cars that i have my eye set on. However i am thinking of all the possibilities that surround me. It wouldn't really cost all that much to get my car where it needs to be. Probably right around $7000 to get it there.

I would just love to race this car because i know the car so well.

Ok... so your current car is worth what? Maybe $6,000-7,500? Say you can "only" sell it for $5,000. Take your $5k and buy a ready to race car for $3k and have $2k for driver gear and then go race on your "budget" of $7k to develop the old car.

Obviously you can do whatever you want to do but developing/building a car just b/c you can't part with it isn't the brightest thing (then again, neither is racing).

Christian

[Greg Amy]

It boggles my mind when n00bs want to build what's sitting in their driveway.
+1.

Buy, don't build.


I just can't seem to part with my 2002. So this is why i am considering turning it into a race car.
Let me rephrase: "I have a car that I really love. So, since I love it so much, I'm going to hack into it, removing most parts and cutting into others to install safety equipment. THEN I'm going to put it on the same track as Kevin Ruck and Joe DiMinno - maybe, probably, BETWEEN Kevin Ruck and Joe DiMinno - so that they can beat the shit out of each and every body panel for me. Oh, but they'll say 'I'm sorry'. Maybe."

:shrug:


It wouldn't really cost all that much to get my car where it needs to be. Probably right around $7000 to get it there.
May I rephrase, again?

"I'm going to take a nice car worth roughly $10,000, add in $7,000 worth of modifications, and instantly make it worth - maybe - $4000-5000 in resale value as a race car. But only if I can find that special someone else that loves it as much as I do."


I would just love to race this car because i know the car so well.Which means, in all truthiness, you are completely unenlightened as to other possibilities there are out there.

For reference, a Honda CRX Si won (on the track) the last two years of National ITA Championships. You know, the same make/model car that you can buy right now for $3000...?

Hey, just sayin'....

Buy, don't build.

[raffaelli]

I built my street car. Lots of you said 'dont be dumb - go buy one'. I rustled with that for a long time. I decided to build. Despite already paying more for my underdeveloped car than I would have for a turnkey, I would do it again. The experience of building the car is well worth it to me. (plus I collected some pretty cool tools along the way!)

[20CiviC02Si]

I built my street car. Lots of you said 'dont be dumb - go buy one'. I rustled with that for a long time. I decided to build. Despite already paying more for my underdeveloped car than I would have for a turnkey, I would do it again. The experience of building the car is well worth it to me. (plus I collected some pretty cool tools along the way!)That's how i see it if i decide to build. However if i purchase a car, then i'll have an expendable car that i didn't waste a ton of money on.

I see the experience of building a car that i love, and love to race as rewarding. Not the smartest road to take, i'll completely agree. But fun regardless. Either way i am not selling it!

Now i am looking to compete in 2010, so i have an entire year to put away the cash for driver development and a car. I can easily pull in $4000 a month take home if i hit the over time hard come January. So we'll see which road i take.

[Daryl]

I've done both the buy and the build. I enjoyed both for different reasons. In the end, I was successful with both for about the same amount of money, one just cost me a whole bunch more time. Even if you buy a race ready, proven car there will be things that you will want to change.

In the end, my advice to you would be to NOT race a car you love. Never race a car that you can't afford to wad up in a ball and walk away from, both emotionally and financially. If Hondas are your thing, pick up a Honda on the cheap--one where the interior, suspension and brakes are shot and it leaks oil like mad. Don't pay for stuff you are going to have to replace or discard anyway. And don't make yourself sound "cool" when you are going to buy it. Use the bad interior, brakes, suspension and the exxon valdez impression as bargaining tools.

Have fun.

[20CiviC02Si]

Thans, i appreciate the advice! There is a local that has an Si shell with cage already built for cheap. Problem is finding everything that is needed to make a complete car out of it.

[raffaelli]

Checkout this CRX:

http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=20447


Silly cheap.

[20CiviC02Si]

Thanks for the link. If i had $3000 lying around right now i would buy it. Hopefully this car or one like it will be available by the time February rolls around.

[Xian]

Thanks for the link. If i had $3000 lying around right now i would buy it. Hopefully this car or one like it will be available by the time February rolls around.

You could always sell the 02 Si and use the $$ to fund the racecar... ;)

[20CiviC02Si]

You could always sell the 02 Si and use the $$ to fund the racecar... ;)

Like i said i don't want to sell my Si. If it were any other car i would, it's just something that is of great value to me.

[RacerBill]

Bare minimum would be:

Cage with door bars
Roll Cage padding
Seat with Harness
Kill Switch wiring
Steering lock removed
Glass Moonroof replaced/skinned
Airbags disabled
ABS disabled
Tow hooks front and rear
Decals
Transponder

I'm sure I'm missing some little stuff but that's all I can think of right off the cuff. For the price of the stuff above, you could buy a "ready to race" used car and sell your 02 Civic... net cost to you would be very little. This would leave $$ for the actual racing budget.

Christian

I didn't see anyone else mention it, but how about a fire bottle or fire system?

I have not seen any posts that I would disagree with. I chose to build my first car, but only because it was the only option I had. On the other hand, it has been a great experience and satisfaction.

Have fun with whatever you decide to do!

[Ed Funk]

Like i said i don't want to sell my Si. If it were any other car i would, it's just something that is of great value to me.

Well, build it, race it, but be prepared to walk away from it if (when) it gets balled up. 'cause that does happen (along with s**t):cool:

[R2 Racing]

I'm going to put it on the same track as Kevin Ruck and Joe DiMinno - maybe, probably, BETWEEN Kevin Ruck and Joe DiMinno - so that they can beat the shit out of each and every body panel for me. Oh, but they'll say 'I'm sorry'. Maybe."
Ehhh, doubtful.


Thanks for using my name, BTW.

[Greg Amy]

Thanks for using my name, BTW.
Juuuuust kiddin', champ; just kiddin'.

[Xian]

Juuuuust kiddin', champ; just kiddin'.

j000 musta been keeding... no way a 2/3 scale Odyssey is going to be running between tKR and Crazy Joe! :eek: ;)

[20CiviC02Si]

Just because i can't sell the car, doesn't mean i am going to be building it. I am unsure what i want to do at this moment. I would love to build a car, but it'd be better to just buy one.

I am saving up the bank to decide on what i want to do. Once i have the cash i'll be able to make the decision.