NHMS happeneings

[lateapex911]

OK, so, what's happening in IT up at the Speedway this weekend??

[Doc Bro]

OK, so, what's happening in IT up at the Speedway this weekend??


ITA

Branscombe green to checker 1:18.25
Gangi coming on strong 1:18.12
Breault 1:18.35

Track was very slippery.

IT7 had Patullo and McStay with mucho amore for one another......

Bucella takes the win, Grant 2nd, Big wave Dave rounding out the top 3. I think Grant owes Dick a windshield...

ITB had Beran leading but pulled off with a handfut to go- Win going North of the Border, ehhh? (Vantage).

Ufelder in ITS with Lawton? and Miskoe? I believe.

ITR was Maynard (Naturally) with The Tizzer and Crugnale on the podium


Big scare in ITS/R with a red flag for an ITS e30 that lost it in 9, clibling the wall in the downhill and going airborn aiming for the flag station at the turtle. Everyone was fine but the car was destroyed.

R

[ronin12]

That was a nasty wreck. I was one of the first ones to respond, it seems like it started at the tires out of 9 then carried it down to 10. It took a few gouges out of the pavement, but as reported driver was fine.

[Doc Bro]

Chicane-Chicane qualifying;

Branscombe, Breault, Gangi

R

[dominojd]

Chicane-Chicane qualifying;

Branscombe, Breault, Gangi

R

Go Rob only one postion to pick up.

[Tkczecheredflag]

Waiting for Day 2.

[almracing]

ITA - Day 2 re-cap from #86 -
A fun start had Breault, Gangi, Ruddy, Branscombe for about 4 laps until I could not hold off Branscombe anymore. Branscombe caught up to Gangi and they both reeled in Breault. They both got by and Gangi held off Bransc. Final was Gangi, Branscombe, Breault, Ruddy. I think I need to find the hidden turbos on Breault's car!!

An amazing weekend of extremely close racing with no big incidents!!

Tim - you were missed... but don't hurry back. It was nice to bring home hardware. LOL

[Doc Bro]

That was fun!!! First time in the front row, first time leading a race. Pace car paced us fast, but suffice it to say we were 4 wide in a drag race into 1 (chicane). Gangi low, Jeff next, me, and Anthony high. I had the prefferred line into 1 and came out on top, followed by Vic, Jeff and Anthony. I lead for the next 9 laps. It was COOL! I had opened up about a 3 sec lead on Victor, but he eventually cought me as my tires got hot. The track was very challenging and I felt that if I had to lose the lead to Vic I'd rather be outdriven than give it to him by spinning. Vic caught me and I held p2 for 5 more laps until [I blew it] my foot slipped off the brake pedal in 3 and nearly wrecked myself. Jeff drove to the door and we drag raced up the hill.....everyone knows how that turned out for me.....

Great weekend- 2 3rds....learned a ton.

The racing was as close as it could get and was VERY respectful, what a great group.


R

[rhygin]

I had a tremendous time with some weak qualifying efforts and some strong races as I got more seat time. Definitely got warm! I think for today's ITA race there should be two classifications... the first three and the rest!

Props to instant and unselfish help I got on the qualifying grid when Black Betty developed a small coolant leak. #58 and #94 have some GREAT support... thanks man...

Now my hard part... a very sincere apology to Dave Fiata for the spin in T3... looking at the data system, I definitely caught some serious understeer, car did not hold and I came into your line in turn 3. My bad for sure... no doubt. Even checked the line I had with other passes I made to the inside of turn #3. I prolly shouda been more patient but I was on a roll. Please drop me an email if you need help with the three link... serious.
BB

[dickita15]

It really was a wicked fun weekend. In the Saturday’s IT7 race we all got very good starts. Grant was leading, with Noam and a Miata between me with Mike pushing me hard and Dave not far behind. Noam and the Miata got by Grant and Mike and I were catching him so Mike and I stopped fighting for second and worked together to reel him in. on lap 7 the IT7 race was going to be a barn burner. We went up the hill with me have some overlap on Grant and Mike right on my but with Dave only one half second behind. I was thinking to myself how with 10 laps to go anything could happen. Halfway down the hill Grant and I came together and spun to the right in the gravel. Mike did a masterful job of missing the wreck and taking the lead. By the way the gravel in that section of the track is the size of baseballs. I learned my unique paint job is not chip resistant.
Grant reentered quickly in third, me not so much, way too much toe out. Mike led to the end. Grant caught up with Dave and they swapped places multiple times with Grant edging him out for second by inches at the line.
Sunday was less eventful. Qualifying was Mike, Grant, me and Dave all within .8 seconds. It was nose to tail for 5 laps (chicane sucks) or so but I then lost contact with Grant when everything hot and Dave fell back when he got crossed up with a SSB car. I was just tooling around for the rest of the race. When a Miata wanted by in three I gave him the inside and he promptly drove into me on the exit taking a chunk out of my right front wheel. Not sure if there is any more damage yet. At least I finished.
Congratulations to Mike on his first and second win in a sweep of the weekend.

[Ed Funk]

Aren't Miatas fun?!?

[Tkczecheredflag]

Sounds like you guys had a great weekend - Congrats to all!:happy204:

[JLawton]

Nice job guys!! Congrats to Rob, Victor, Anthony and Geoff!! I wish I could have seen it!! Looks like we could have some serious fun in August!!

Dick, is IT7 gonna turn into SM?? I want to see video!!! :D

[dickita15]

Aren't Miatas fun?!?

You know I am sick of hearing this momentum car excuse. I heard a quote told a Miata driver at another track and event: “it sound like you put more importance on the need to preserve your momentum than on our duty to not have contact”
Most
Important
At
Track
Always

[dickita15]

Dick, is IT7 gonna turn into SM?? I want to see video!!! :D

What you talking about Willis

[Andy Bettencourt]

You know I am sick of hearing this momentum car excuse. I heard a quote told a Miata driver at another track and event: “it sound like you put more importance on the need to preserve your momentum than on our duty to not have contact”
Most
Important
At
Track
Always

WE ALL HAVE MOMENTUM CARS. Its the key to winning. lose your momentum, lose the race. There are bad drivers in every class. Just happen to be more Miata drivers out there. Simple math (present company included)... :)

[dickita15]

Andy, I admit it is fun to engage in a little Miata bashing after all they are not a minority so it is still permitted.
Fully 50% of the cars that hit me this weekend were Miatas while they were only20% of the field. 100% or the cars that hit me that were not in my class were Miatas so as you can see statistics are on my side.
By the way the last time I had contact was at least two years ago, I think that was… oh yea, I won’t go there.
:D

[Andy Bettencourt]

I am with you big boy! Sometimes a protest can work wonders. Gotta be patient with lapped traffic dontcha-know!

[ner88]

I love to read this forum.....everyone has a name accept guys or gals in Miatas.:shrug:

[Ed Funk]

They have names that we use, just not in polite company!:D

[JLawton]

I love to read this forum.....everyone has a name accept guys or gals in Miatas.:shrug:


It's just frustration Jerry. The ITA drivers all play very nicely with each other and it seems to be the Miata's that double dip that seem to be the problem (although I don't now anything about Dick's situation). For the most part, the've done a great job with their situational awareness when getting lapped but there are still the same stories.....

Last weekend at Pocono, the ITB leader was almost taken out by a Miata mid packer pulling a real bone head move. That sort of crap has to stop........

[MKB]

DICK.........spot on race reporting! ALSO you must be the ONLY person I know who would report "Wicked fun weekend" after being spun out of a possible victory (lesson to be learned i would say) The "wave of debris" that came off Dicks car was most impressive (it really looked like water)! I also would like to thank all who stopped over to congradulate Us on our 1st victory! I did not know I had that many friends and have to admit I did not know everyone who stopped in!!!!! What a GREAT club!

6 weeks till RAL.


Mike B IT7 #29

[dickita15]

My incident involving a Miata did not involve lapping. He was running in ITA behind me, my race went away and I backed off a bit. He caught up with me and as he was not in my class the first time he took a look I gave him the inside and he could not pull it off without hitting me. The lapping comment is an inside joke between Andy and I.
Jerry I see no reason to call this guy out by name as I do not think he is on this board.
I am not sure why we tend to see more Miata guy seeming to get into this kind of spot than others but I have some guesses. There are a lot of novice drivers running Miatas. My friend was in our April school.
I think that Miatas are easier than most cars to drive therefore rewarding a inexperienced driver with a faster lap than he might get in another car for the same skill level.
And finally for those that hang out with the SM/SSM crowd I really do think there is a culture difference that does value momentum more than the duty to avoid contact ay all costs.
The incident I had on Saturday was between two cars dicing for the lead driving at 100% if their combined talent level and car capability. At least we were racing for something worth winning.
The novice in the Miata that hit me after I gave him the inside was 10 seconds behind the next ITA car and 5 second ahead of the next one with cars from other classes in between.

[Doc Bro]

Sorry to change the subject from Miata bashing BUT, I'd like to applaud tech this weekend.

Tech was very proactive this weekend. They encouraged driver involvement in self policing by mandating open hoods. They encouraged drivers to look under everyone's hood. There were questions asked and answers given, some with embarassed expressions (like why are you using our broom to hold your hood open?). They also checked motor mounts, ride heights, weights and in SM made them take off exhaust manifolds to check porting, to name a few. While there were some grumblings, I personally think it was great.

BTW, there were some DQ'd, and some given a by next event as a result.

R

[gran racing]

I think that Miatas are easier than most cars to drive therefore rewarding a inexperienced driver with a faster lap than he might get in another car for the same skill level.

I've only driven a Miata once at Lime Rock and was surprised at how easy of a car it is to drive a 9/10ths. It was a damp day, the back end came out in the left hander and was much easier to control than I would have anticipated. Getting the Miata to that last 10th is a whole nother ball game though. Maybe because reaching the 9/10ths mark isn't too difficult but getting to the next level is might be the cause of some of these incidents.

It's popularity and relative ease to build a decent SM also adds to new drivers being attracted to the category. I also think the fact it's a spec class creates a thought process that they need to take larger risks to complete passes. For us IT guys, different cars have different strengths and weaknesses so we determine where our cars are stronger more easily. I wonder if in combined groups they're just so programmed with the way they race in a complete SM field.

[lateapex911]

The Meotters I've driven have been incredibly forgiving, and I've watched guys race with me -(at pocono, where I was grouped with them, and my 4 laps on a wacko track I'd never driven put me in the not so desirable neighborhood) - do some real shove it in there,dive bomb, hope for the best on the other side passes, and if I wanted to be a dick, (the third time from the same..... errrrr...guy) i could have easily not jumped out of the throttle, and therefor driven into their recovery space and punted them. Finally, I got a clue as to where the track went, and drove more aggressively, and that was that.

I think that the fact is that you can be a complete bonehead, get the thing all out of shape, and just drive, away makes folks feel invincible. In other cars I've driven, if I pulled some of the stunts I've seen, I'd be at the frame shop.

[jimalley]

I normally don't post, but I check this site faithfully. I plead guilty to being the racer (Jim Alley) who ruined Dicks weekend.

I got involved in SCCA in 2006 and have raced in the NER ITA field since I joined. I was sixty years old when I joined and quite frankly don't have the skills, experience, or guts to run up front. Then again and don't have the ego so that is a problem for me, as it apparently is for others. I have been racing door to door with all the people in this race group for three years without contact and now that I have made a driving error, and because I drive a Miata, I am some kind of an idiot or jerk.

All I can say is:

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

2. Starting at age sixty to take up racing I chose the Miata on the advice of quite a few knowledgeable people as I wanted to start in a Viper I owned at the time. I am glad I chose the Miata as it is well balanced and very forgiving. In my mind it is the perfect car for someone my age who is happy running mid field and I don't think I should have to apologize for driving a Miata.

3. I have been dive-bombed and cut off by every type of car because I am a mid pack racer. I have always given point by's when being lapped and don't think I have been a problem for others on the track. I have had no more problems with Miatas than any other car.

4. I hope if I don't get discouraged by all the negativity and quit, that I don't fall into the category of whining, complaining and making excuses for my own inadequacy as seems to be a commonplace problem. I decided to do this for the fun, enjoyment and an escape of owning and running a business that is stressful. I am not interested in going to the track to be the center of controversy or to have any confrontation over club racing. No Thank you!

Well I have most likely said more that I should have, but it is not fair to other responsible Miata drivers to be painted with the same brush. Think about it!

[dickita15]

Jim
I am sorry you are upset or discouraged and if you have been racing for three years and never had contact that was the start of a good record. I am sorry I called you a novice, I thought I saw you at the school in April, if that is not true I am sorry for the mistake.
Yes you did wave me down and apologize. I have to admit I found it a little unsatisfying. First if I feel I wronged someone I try to seek them out right away and not let over an hour pass and second, and this may be a matter of style or personality I really was not impressed with the idea that you really thought this was your fault. You never looked at my car or asked about damage. This maybe only my perception as you seem to express yourself more fully in with the written word than verbally so again if I perceived the conversation wrong I am sorry.



1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.




Above is where we have a problem. Had I been able to divine that you were unable or unwilling to control your car in a manner that would allow me racing room, yes I could have jammed on the brakes at the exit of the corner and avoided contact. I am not that psychic. The track narrows to forty feet at the point that you hit me and drove me off the track. I was letting you by and gave you 35 of track to get it done. The rules require you to leave me 5 feet. You were not hit. You hit me in the right front wheel.
You cannot have it both ways. Saying it may or not be your fault is not taking responsibility.
If you are discouraged my conscience is fine.

[ner88]

My final word on this:
A person should not be judged by the car that he has chosen to drive.
The Miatas racing in ITA are there because they have a right to just as your Honda, Accura or whatever is.
I'm sure if Jim was driving a RX7 it may have been nothing more than a bad move!
In my 8 years of racing Miatas I have never driven anyone off track or taken anyone out of a race, so I don't like being lumped into a catagory just because of my car choice.

Call them....Old, bald, fat, short, but please not Miata guys!:D
But, then again??????never mind!

[JLawton]

My final word on this:
A person should not be judged by the car that he has chosen to drive.
The Miatas racing in ITA are there because they have a right to just as your Honda, Accura or whatever is.
I'm sure if Jim was driving a RX7 it may have been nothing more than a bad move!
In my 8 years of racing Miatas I have never driven anyone off track or taken anyone out of a race, so I don't like being lumped into a catagory just because of my car choice.

Call them....Old, bald, fat, short, but please not Miata guys!:D
But, then again??????never mind!


Jerry, tried to PM you but you have it turned off.......

Yes, we do have a tendency to lump all Miata drivers together......Human nature....... But that being said, the Miata drivers in general have a different frame of mind. The stuff I see in the SM and SSM races just makes me shake my head. In my years of running IT (7), 80% of my hits came from Miatas..............all in the two year period when I was in ITB and ran in the same run group. You had stated that you have never hit anyone (and knowing you, I have no doubt about that) but how many times have you been a victim??? I know, you race SM so the percentages are there.....but how many of those hits came from more than just "racing" incidents?

We do have a great group of racers in ITA here in the Northeast. From what I have seen, none of us is willing to total their car just to make a pass. That's why I have really enjoyed racing the last two years. I just wish everyone else had the same frame of mind.

(and I really don't care if you're old, bald, fat and short!! :lol: )

[Doc Bro]

80% of my hits came from Miatas..............


The remaining 20% came from Joe I presume.:happy204:

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

From what I have seen, none of us is willing to total their car just to make a pass.

Damn Saturn drivers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuiQVgAnvgk
:D

[ner88]

I understand everyones frustration, but it's not because their is some sence of willingness to write off our cars.
New drivers go to Miatas for several reasons, unfortunately we all have to deal with them.
The SM guys upfront race hard and clean, and yes we worry about the new aggressive guys at the back.
I had two well know IT guys in my rental Miata this weekend both ran mid-pack without any issues.
If you guys think it's only Miata guys that are bad and problemed stand in T3 for an IT race, take your blinders off and pay attention!

HELP WANTED! at all NER races!
Pacecar drivers
Trophy person
gas pump attendant

send resume to:
[email protected]
:happy204:

[raffaelli]

HELP WANTED! at all NER races!

Trophy person




Are ya gonna make me wear a two piece?:eek:

[dickita15]

Jerry,
I don’t know what to tell you. You are not going to stop the trash talk. Kind of reminds me of the old joke about lawyers: “it’s 90% that spoil the reputation of the rest of them”
We have talked above about some of the reasons why we have more problems with these cars and the stats support the problem. Sure there are plenty of good drives who race Miatas but the odds of running into a problem are real. There were 4 Miatas in my race group. Two or maybe three had contact. I don’t have firsthand knowledge about the third, but the two seemed to be at fault.
I am sorry for those good guys in Miatas who are offended but there is a reason for stereotypes.

[lateapex911]

Same tune, different beat:

http://www.roadrace-autox.com/bbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9360&posts=3#M213346

[jimalley]

Dick

I am sorry I didn't seek you out sooner, because thats what you consider proper protocol. To be honest I don't intend to get into a confrontation because someone is still hot under the collar and needs to cool down.

I may not be very vocal or keep a low profile, but I do observe behavior around the track. Some of it is not very desirable (although I am impressed that a greater percentage of behavior is very sportsman like) I don't know you or your personality so I thought it was the best way to handle it at the time.

My wife and I had a family obligation and I was loading up and try to get out as quickly as possible so maybe more time expired than I realized.

Please PM me if you have expenses that you occurred and want to discuss.

[RSTPerformance]

It was nice visiting those that I was able to see... I stoped in with Stephen and we bought Smarty out of a couple sizes of new tires for the Audi's :) after that we went back home to do some work on the cars trying to get them ready for the PROIT race at Lime Rock on 8/2/08... Hoping to make that, and we will see what comes next... we need to beat up on the VW A3 takeover... It was nice to see Tim Mullen in an Audi, now he knows how we feel at NHIS!!! lol

Dick/Jim and others...

Did the Stewards stop you in Black flag" (the pits) to discuss any of your "incidents?" Just wondering...

Raymond

[dickita15]

yes Raymond they did.

[JLawton]

Damn Saturn drivers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuiQVgAnvgk
:D


Hitting Joe doesn't count..........Do you remember what his car looked like before????? :p

[Dave Patten]

I started my Club Racing efforts in IT over 20 years ago. IT was the entry level to Club Racing. There were several inexperienced drivers in the field at that time, much like Spec Miata has today.

At one of the early NHIS races (All IT cars were in one race group) the qualifying session looked more like a Mad Max highway scene than a road race. Cars were hitting each other almost everywhere on the course.

The Chief Steward, Bruce Kapstein, called all the IT drivers in after the session and read them the riot act about contact. The “talk” later became known as the “F’ing Ashtray Speech”. Those who were around certainly remembered it. Basically he laid down the law that any contact during the race would result in a black flag consultation for ALL involved, regardless of fault.

The race started with the field going thru Turn 3 on Lap 1, three wide, but there was NO contact. In fact the entire race was run without anyone being black flagged for contact.

For the last 2 years I have been racing in GTL at the National level. The Small Bore grouping at National races has accepted the no contact philosophy. In those two years I have had only one incident of car to car contact and that resulted in only a paint scuff.

The point I am trying to make is, if the drivers accept “no contact” racing, even novice drivers can race clean. It is a matter of establishing a mindset or culture within that racing community that contact will not be tolerated.

[dyoungre]

I have been racing door to door with all the people in this race group for three years without contact and now that I have made a driving error, and because I drive a Miata, I am some kind of an idiot or jerk.

All I can say is:

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

Well I have most likely said more that I should have, but it is not fair to other responsible Miata drivers to be painted with the same brush. Think about it![/quote]


Jim,
I applaud you for posting your side, as it helps clear up misunderstandings. I hope you are not an idiot, nor a jerk - and in this case, I hope you can listen, as well as think about it:

I don't want to race with you.

I say that, because I don't think you understand the rules of door to door racing. By your statement, you have told me that your racing philosophy is dangerous and unsportsmanlike.

By suggesting that someone should have to hit the brakes as the only course of action to avoid either going off course or hitting a passing competitor shows that you have not comprehended the rules of our sport.

To Quote GCR 6.8.1 B: "All competitors have a right to "racing room" on the marked surface..."
6.8.1 C: " It shall be incumbent on all drivers to preserve the right of his fellow competitors to racing room on the race track."
6.8.1 D: "The responsibility for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely rests with the overtaking car."

No where does it say "you can cut someone off as you pass, as soon as your front fender is ahead of your competitors".

I have had my share of on track contact, and probably 50% was my fault. I tried to pass someone in 3, locked up my tires as they turned in on the apex and spun them. I have stayed on track when my car was off pace, and gotten in people's way, no matter how hard I tried to point and stay on my line. I don't race often enough to keep my skills (and my head) where it should be by now. That being said, the most important thing to me is knowing that my competitors feel comfortable going door to door with me, knowing that I will race them hard and clean.

I have also raced on a track about twice as tight as NHIS, where passes typically took 2 to 3 turns to complete. Through those turns, we would run side by side, without contact, until we CLEARED the other car, before we resumed the 'racing line'. As racers, that is both the art of our craft, and the most rewarding part of our sport.

We've had this discussion on what is considered 'racing room', and the latest version of the GCR focuses on the responsibility of the passee. I think it should, as I think too often people believe racing room is only a requirement once someone has a fender on you. My version? Racing room starts when you anticipate someone will have their front wheel up to your rear wheel, going into the corner (rediculous dive bombs excluded). My approach may cause me to be passed more often than others, but it avoids getting myself punted, as well.

I wasn't at NHIS this past weekend, so my statements are solely based on what was posted. To be honest, what was stated got under my skin.

[WillM]

I don't usually post here, but do check in from time to time. I've run with the NER several times over the past few season in my ITA Miata. When I first arrived to the school DRIVING my car with a small trailer behind it, tech thought I was crazy.

"YOU DO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AT THESE EVENTS, RIGHT? WOW, AND YOU ARE IN ITA TO BOOT"

The Miata bashing is a compete joke. Comments that indicate typical Miata drivers are talentless hacks who use their "easy to drive" Miata to look like super heros are just laughable. Seriously. If you believe that, than you probably have bigger issues to deal with, not the least of which could involve compensating for any shortcomings attributed to your anatomy. Is this the distorted reality you cling to when you get passed by an "uber-Miata" piloted by a talentless hack? Jeez! How do you get through the night?!?!

Reading some of the posts on this forum, I have never been so let down by what I thought was a talented group of friendly racing buddies.

Jim is a stand-up guy and gentleman. Unlike several people I've met over the years, Jim had spent YEARS on-track in hot-lapping and time trial competition before even thinking about joining the SCCA and getting into wheel-to-wheel racing. From following him, I know he is a clean driver. I can't speak to this particular incident because I was not there. All I know about the incident is what I've read in this post. Worst case scenerio, it sounds like a mistake was made. Whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt?

Sounds like the stewards brought them in for a chat. Perfect! In my opinion, this is an improvement of leaps and bounds over past scenerios. I have witnessed plenty of mistakes and the unfortunate results of poor decision making in my relatively short years running in ITA. In my experience the Miata to "other car" involvement ratio is considerably lower than the ratio of Miata to "other car" list of ITA entrants.

I'm with Jerry. I'm an ITA guy first, and "Miata" guy second.

The Miata bashing is petty. Certainly we can find more constructive things to do with our time and improve OUR group. I've run wheel-to-wheel with several guys in the NER, lots of class-acts and friendly types, and I trust the tainted few do not speak for the silent majority. I've had tons of fun over the past few seasons, and look forward to doing so sometime soon.

[dickita15]

With all due respect Will, I think you are responding to things that have not been said. Yes I feel I was wronged. Running HPDE events does not prepare someone for the situation we are talking about. I think actually it is a hindrance in exactly this type of situation requiring some things to be unlearned. Yes I do think there are more problems at midpack with Miatas than other car and driver combinations. I and others have speculated as to some of the objective reasons that might be so. Yes I believe a mistake was made, Jim seems not so sure.
Sincerely,
One of the tainted few

[lateapex911]

Anyone watch the ALMS race on SPEED this past weekend? The one at Lime Rock? Of course you did!

There were two similar incidents at the uphill chicane. In one, a Prototype car moved to the right to pass a GT Aston Martin in the braking zone, then moved left to get back "on line" for the right hand corner. But the Aston hadn't vaporized, and the P car made contact, (LR to RF) resulting in a mess, and the fist/ finger being shown/flailed at the Aston driver by the P car driver.

Huh?

You know where I'm going here....

The p car driver should have apologised for the incident, since he moved over before there was room. It was his fault. NO doubt about it. He failed to give racing room, and his subsequent display was rather elitist.

From the description of the incident here, it appears that is exactly what happened, The overtaken car left room to pass, and stayed as far to the edge (left) of the track as possible. The overtaking car failed to respect that, and assumed the overtaken car should, essentially, pull over, slam on his brakes in an acceleration zone, or, I guess, even better, vaporize.


Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided.

I think the incident could have been avoided if the passing car left room for the passee, and didn't hit said passee..

That's disappointing to me, and I really don't care if it's a Miata or a Ferrari, the mindset appears (from the typed words of the driver here) to not be in line with a "share the track" philosophy. I hope it's just a misunderstanding and a poor choice of words, but when you are passing someone, who did you a favor by moving over for you, it's just polite to not force them off the track.

[Greg Amy]

... Comments ... are just laughable ... you probably have bigger issues ... involv[ing] compensating for any shortcomings attributed to your anatomy ... distorted reality you cling to when you get passed by an "uber-Miata"... Jeez! How do you get through the night?!?!
Wow, well said. Don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm convinced.

GA

(P.S., you left out: "DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL MORE LIKE A MAN TO BEAT UP THE MIATAS?!?!?!?!")

Just sayin'.

[ulfelder]

I sense a tattoo craze (or at least bumper stickers, perhaps to replace ZOOM-ZOOM) about to sweep the NER SM community:

TAINTED FEW


------
Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

[dickita15]

No Steve you have it backwards, it is we haters who are the tainted few. Maybe vigilantes are going to tag our cars in the middle of the night. :rolleyes:

[lateapex911]

I sense a tattoo craze (or at least bumper stickers, perhaps to replace ZOOM-ZOOM) about to sweep the NER SM community:

TAINTED FEW


------
Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

Low post count, but high post effect! Good to hear from you Steve! You have a new car in the works?

[gran racing]

Wasn't that a song?

All right fine, I'll take the bait. When ITB is grouped with SM do I get more nervous / ready for body contact? You better believe it. Since I'm married, have a kid, and drive a Honda it doesn't matter the size of my anatomy. :shrug: My personal belief or reasons why I think it happens in SM would be the same thing in other popular Spec sedan classes too if that was happening and at least seemed to be accepted.

[JLawton]

Ah, young Will. You are lucky enough to have learned your ways in ITA instead of SM/SSM. Drive with them for a few races and see if your opinions change!! :cool:


Jeff "Hung like Yoda" Lawton

[lateapex911]

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff....... do we really want to know how you've determined Yoda's "hang size"??

(Good thing we saw you at the last event with a nice companion...;0 )

[dickita15]

Jake, go work on the car.:D

[ulfelder]

Low post count, but high post effect! Good to hear from you Steve! You have a new car in the works?

Hey Jake. We are building up an ITS '99 Miata as my 2009 ride, but the RX-7 ran great last weekend (tracked down some electrical gremlins), so I'm all set this year.

Steve

[Doc Bro]

I personally would like to take the anti-Miata momentum and have Andy removed from ITA. Any seconds.... anyone, Bueller?



PS. Jim, I think your alright in my book and I'll race with you anyday.

PPS. Jeff, I just knew it..........

PPS. Isn't there someway to turn this into a Greg/Andy fight?????


R

[JLawton]

OK, I'm declaring peace......... I'll run with any of the guys in this group. I've said it before, over and over. It is the best group I've run with since being in the SCCA. Seriously.

[gran racing]

Oh man, you're such a dork Jeff.

"I love you ITA guys, I love you." :026: "You like my Saturn too, right?"

....good thing ITB & ITA aren't grouped together otherwise I've a Saturn decal on my rear bumper after the next event. LOL

[FastM3]

This thread has gotten a little too nasty. I am concerned by the behavior that has been demonstrated here. I sure hope that it is all talk and that people will be courteous on the track.

I have driven with the ITA group and have enjoyed it. Linda really likes the group and feels it is like an extended family. And she drives one of those M word things.

I have witnessed rough driving and contact among the front runners in this class with cars put off.

Geez Dick, I have great respect for you and believe you are a great, ethical, upfront kind of guy and enjoy seeing and talking to you at the track.

But.......You are freaking me out here.

There just needs to be more cooperation in general when we get into a race car. Maybe some open discussion should be held at the drivers meeting. Maybe there should be more driver meetings during the weekend. Back when we raced laydown Karts at Summit Point we used to get a lecture before each race. The point was safety and not needing to get the "Ambalance" out.

In the SM Race Andrez started at the back(his qualifying time was dissallowed) and was coming towards the front fast. I was trying to hold off another car but it made sense to point Andrez by on the way into 6 as it did not hurt either of us. I would have lost lots more time trying to go side by side in 6 and would have slowed his progress needlessly. He was much faster than me.

This is not meant in any way to piss anyone off.

I'm done now. Sorry for the rant.

Phil The other number 88 ITA / SM / SSM

[WillM]

Doc - I would second the motion to remove Mr. Bettencourt from ITA, but my post above is proof that I posses neither the vocabulary nor sarcasm to stand in the same posting league as Greg, let alone run toe-to-toe as Andy can. The comedy of Andy and our self-described Captain Panties is what keeps this place interesting and must be retained at all costs!!:D

Phil - I agree with your concerns, but don't believe for a minute that online disagreements would lead to on-track altercations. One common theme expressed by all posters in this thread is that less contact = more better. :eclipsee_steering:

Jeff - "Young". Ha! I wish!

To all winners at NHMS - congratulations! Wish I had been there.

[dickita15]

Come on Phil, freaking you out? I did not call Jim out. I gave a race report. Jim volunteered an explanation that was inadequate in my thinking and I pointed out my disagreement with it as did a couple of others. If Jim is being abused it is for his typed words not the actual incident.

Compare if you will this to the reaction to Brad’s post. Brad after research found he was most likely at fault in his incident and came here and said so. They call that being a man. After reading his post I am left with the belief that he will take this experience into account in his future race. Unfortunately I have no reason to think that with my incident.

Guys I am all about the teaching moment.

By the way I hope you can get the cars patched up by August. After Linda’s great drive Saturday she did not deserve you messing up HER car.

[lateapex911]

Compare if you will this to the reaction to Brad’s post. Brad after research found he was most likely at fault in his incident and came here and said so. They call that being a man. .

Great point, Dick, I was very impressed with Brads comments, (page 1, about halfway down) ....it sounds like it went wrong, but the post incident handling was spot on.

[wepsbee]

I seemed to be able to stay out of trouble! Of course with my limited experience and less than capable car I am in the back but only due to the previous reasons not due to desire. I have spoken to and questioned any number of ITA drivers and have recieved nothing but help and good advice regardless of the car they drive. I try to move over as often as I can to let the faster guys by, except for that one time( sorry Doc ), I learn from watching and listening. However as a driver gets more and more comfortable in their car I imagine sometimes things just get pushed a little too hard. I ran into the tire wall out of T10 because I spent to much time worrying about the cars coming up on me. I seem to take this issue to far the other way. Live and learn!!!!

[FastM3]

Thanks for the clarification.


By the way I hope you can get the cars patched up by August. After Linda’s great drive Saturday she did not deserve you messing up HER car.

Thanks Dick, She did a Great Job on Saturday.

Yes, how true. The car is in the shop now undergoing surgery and hopefully will be ready soon. (By the way it was a learning experience. I required some room and the other driver was not obligated to provide it resulting in both of us spinning. In the second act of the tragedy I was totally blind with the Hans on and could not see any worker to direct me nor could I see oncoming traffic(I actually thought about disconnecting the Hans so that I could turn my head. Thank goodness I did not). Limping to a safe spot I had a very severe hit with another car that went to the inside)
Lesson to all drivers. "Leave your competitors a car width and slow down a bit when entering a Waving Yellow area that is blind"

Phil

[Ed Funk]

[Phil[/quote]


Lesson to all drivers. "Leave your competitors a car width and slow down a bit when entering a Waving Yellow area that is blind"



Ya think!?!:shrug:

[MKB]

I can attest to Dans efforts to stay clear (I was the car behind you).......if fact as he said he tried a bit to much! WOW is all i thought when you went threw T-10 -Joey Chittwood would have been proud! I am VERY glad you did not go over (he was on two wheels for a bit)....two wheels-sparks etc-how is your car????



Mike B IT7 #29

[wepsbee]

Mechanically the car seems OK, I now have a nice set of black racing strips down the entire left side and a couple of new small dents but now the car has character!!

[biovic]

Somewhat related post but really a public apology, to Anthony Ruddy in his CRX on the Sunday race. I did not give Anthony enough racing room in turn 2a on the 1st lap, not intentional of course but my RS hit his LF. :blink: We both continued to finish and take trophies, and although we already talked, it stinks when this happens, especially to friends. Some minor body work for both cars, but it is always nicer when you don't have to do any of that between races.

Victor
ITA #03 Integra

Acura of Peabody
HMS motorsport

[almracing]

Victor - no worries here! Niether of us likes to get scuffed up... an irony that we did it to each other. With all of the close racing I did last weekend, I think our bump was due. Let me know if you need Grace to add some pink duct tape to the car. ;-)