Best Honda/Acura for ITA??

[Ed Funk]

ITC's fun but minimal competion here in the northeast.

I've seen the cars on track, gotten a few suggestions from"ex-spurts", now what's your opinion?

Best model and year?

[erlrich]

CRX Si, '88-'91

[Andy Bettencourt]

Buying Lorenzo Serra's car would put you in the mix immedately. Wicked machine.

[Greg Gauper]

Ed,

If you are looking at getting out of ITC, another option would be to convert you car to H-Prod. It isn't that much more expensive to run compared to IT, and the car potentially becomes much faster...plus you have a pretty strong HP group out your way (at least Nationally). They are very competitive H-Prod cars, especially if you convert to the Si motor (found in the ITB cars).

Something to consider...

FYI - Beth Burkhard from out your way came out and played at the June Sprints with her ITC car this year and had a blast, despite being handicapped by running in ITC trim.

[JLawton]

Ed,

I agree with Andy. It looks like there are a couple of top notch "A" cars out there for sale. I'm sure there are several of those that you would be able to jump in and be at the front. I "think" (and I'm far from expert on Honda products) some of it depends on the track??

I think it would be great to have you join ITA. As you can see from the Pocono thread, the biggest "incident" all season has been one that involved no contact!! :lol: Very different than your current run group, huh?? ;)

Good luck!!

[R2 Racing]

'92-'93 Integra RS, but I'm a little biased. Really, if someone threw me the money to do it, I'd love to see what I could do with a '92-'95 Civic EX or Si. Damn near 300lbs lighter than an Integra; that's nothing to scoff at.


...and yes, Lorenzo's CRX is pretty badass.

[spnkzss]

A Civic EX, an Integra (DA or DC), a CRX, or a Civic Si. Even though I just finished my Civic Si, I really should have consider the EX a little harder.

[85itcciviv]

If I ever get the cage put into the 96 Civic Ex I have it should be a competitive package in A. I was hoping to have it ready for the Labor Day weekend at Summit but my cage builder is a bit behind schedule

[Ed Funk]

What about 90-91 Prelude Si or 92 Prelude S, moere cc's, higher compression, bigger valves. Trans ratios maybe a little wider than Integra, brakes ~ same as 'tegs, weight about the same??

Or 93-97 Del Sol Si, mech same as 92-95 civic, ? better aero?, and a cage could deal with the "flexi flyer" status of the Del Sol?

[Ed Funk]

Where are these front running ITA cars listed for sale? Didn't see any here and don't remember any from last issue of Sport Scar?

[Tkczecheredflag]

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23519

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22450

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23099

Here's a couple Ed

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23771
Great platform needs to be finished for the track and ITA spec - currently a "streeter"

[Ed Funk]

? Still trying to sell your car Tim?

[Tkczecheredflag]

? Still trying to sell your car Tim?

Carol is talking about heading south and making noise about "taking us to a next level", whatever that means. Yep - the car is still on "the block." Lot's of fun to drive and was freshened for '08 season.

[spnkzss]

What about 90-91 Prelude Si or 92 Prelude S, moere cc's, higher compression, bigger valves. Trans ratios maybe a little wider than Integra, brakes ~ same as 'tegs, weight about the same??

Or 93-97 Del Sol Si, mech same as 92-95 civic, ? better aero?, and a cage could deal with the "flexi flyer" status of the Del Sol?

Part availability and proven setup knowledge :shrug:

[Greg Amy]

I'm a big fan of the Integra as the best all-around chassis. Yup, the CRX will be faster at some places (Mid-Ohio), the Miata at most others, but the Integra has the best compromise for pretty much everywhere. I think if someone were to build a killer engine for one it would be untouchable. - GA

[R2 Racing]

What about 90-91 Prelude Si or 92 Prelude S, moere cc's, higher compression, bigger valves. Trans ratios maybe a little wider than Integra, brakes ~ same as 'tegs, weight about the same??

Or 93-97 Del Sol Si, mech same as 92-95 civic, ? better aero?, and a cage could deal with the "flexi flyer" status of the Del Sol?
Prelude - In a word, "no". Parts availability, aftermarket parts availability, and the annoyance of working on a Prelude. I swear Honda had the interns design every Prelude ever built. I should say that that's realtively speaking to working on a Civic or an Integra.

Yea, I'd also seriously considered the Del Sol. Same drivetrain as the '92-95 Civic Si/EX, but with a much shorter wheelbase. I'd sure hate to have to find body panels for one though.

With shops like OPM & MSN building ITA Integra engines, I don't know how much more you could expect to see out of one. Yea, I'm still learning/developing with mine, but it's splitting the finest of hairs at this point.

[spnkzss]

I'm pretty sure tGA is thinking DC. I'd still like to see what a top notch ITA DC would do.

[Greg Amy]

With shops like OPM & MSN building ITA Integra engines, I don't know how much more you could expect to see out of one.
No offense intended to anyone, but that made me smile: I was told the same thing about Sunbelt and the SR20DE... :shrug:


I'm pretty sure tGA is thinking DC. I'd still like to see what a top notch ITA DC would do.
I still don't know my Honda chassis codes, but I'm thinking the mid-90s and later? The car weighs slightly more in ITA, but as I understand it has opportunity for slightly higher power. Serra built one that showed promise, but he got side-tracked to F-Prod and Koni Challenge before it got fully sorted.

Plus, I think it's more visually attractive, and replacement body panels are PLENTIFUL. - GA

[spnkzss]

'90-93 I think is DA
'94-'01 I think is DC

When I think ITA I think round headlight DC and other DA. LOL

I'm pretty sure the DC Integra is going to be a brute in ITA if someone really develops one. I know the ITS version has some serious possibility. Maybe some ITS cars will be converted to ITA once the VIN rule goes away, hint hint.

[mossaidis]

Really, if someone threw me the money to do it, I'd love to see what I could do with a '92-'95 Civic EX or Si. Damn near 300lbs lighter than an Integra; that's nothing to scoff at.

See you boys in ITA in '09! ;) We'll see how the old red bucket does...

http://www.tracktimephotos.com/largeView.php?imgName=2008/20080616_WGI_EAS_8576

Demetrius aka Mickey
'92 Honda Civic Si

[Xian]

As everyone has pointed out, there are plenty of great ITA options in the Honda camp. Several good cars up for sale at the moment too!

One option nobody has mentioned yet is the 90-91 Civic EX. Same engine/tranny/suspension as the early Si cars but larger brakes and a roomier car inside. It's as yet an unproven car but should be fast and easy on consumables.

Christian

[R2 Racing]

No offense intended to anyone, but that made me smile: I was told the same thing about Sunbelt and the SR20DE... :shrug:
None taken, and I fully understand your point. If no one ever out did someone else, than track records would never fall, and new champions would never be crowned. The idea of a "perfect" racecar is a ficticious one. But if you're thinking about a 155whp (on a Dynapak) ITA Integra, I think you're reaching. If it does happen one day, than yea, that thing will scoot.


'90-93 I think is DA
'94-'01 I think is DC
Correct.

Also, the difference (engine wise) between the DC and the DA is a 1mm larger bore on the throttle body, a slightly higher lift on the exhaust cam, and the ability to run OBD-II (changed in '96). I think that's it, but I could be wrong.

[Bob Roth]

I wouldn't look at the Sol in A. At 2350 w/o driver its too heavy vs the '93 civic si. Something you mught thnk about is wheelbase. Having raced the 88 CRX (90 inch wheelbase), a ITS Del Sol ('93") and the 95 teg (101") the longer the wheelbase, the less easy it is to pitch the back end.

In my CRX, with 225 hoosiers, you could just toss it into turns and the back end would step out and stick, the Del Sol is about the same in the back though you feel the added weight in the front. The '95 teg is nice but doesn't have the CRX grip in front or Sol grip in rear. Its like the Hoosiers have met their match. (Not that the teg is slow - we had it at 1:27's at nelson, exactly as fast as the CRX).

I haven't been in an ITA CRX since they gained weight, but they in my book still a great handling car and would be my first choice though perhaps they HP wise their time has passed. Of course, the best car would be a "ITA" Del Sol VTEC at 2650 pounds!

[jimmyc]

you will never get a del sol down to the minimum weight in ITA. They are a very heavy car because of the targa top.

The 92-95 civic, 96-00 civic, and 94-01 integra all have more parts available for them then you could ever HOPE to have for a car. THe 92-95 civic shares all suspension parts with the 94-01 integra. And the 96-00 civic is very similiar, things like dampers are all interchangable.

The integras scare the crap out of me, 2600lbs is a HEAVY car IMO.

[tom91ita]

Where are these front running ITA cars listed for sale? Didn't see any here and don't remember any from last issue of Sport Scar?

here is one ita crx that colin botha was driving. not sure if this is his or a friend's...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2236420&page=2

[R2 Racing]

Tom - that's Jamie Quaderer's car. Him and Colin were roommate's for a while and the car was built alongside Colin's grey ITA CRX (the last one). Consider it "the sister car".


I wouldn't look at the Sol in A. At 2350 w/o driver its too heavy vs the '93 civic si. Something you mught thnk about is wheelbase. Having raced the 88 CRX (90 inch wheelbase), a ITS Del Sol ('93") and the 95 teg (101") the longer the wheelbase, the less easy it is to pitch the back end.
See, that's exactly why I would look at a Del Sol Si in ITA. What is that, like 20lbs more than the Si? It's wheelbase is a whole lot shorter, and I think that would easily make up for it. In my Integra, I grow very, very envious of the CRX's short wheelbase when the road starts getting twisty. But in fast sweepers, the Integra is quicker. I think the Del Sol would be a bit of a compromise between the too, tending towards the CRX. Probably handle real damn good. But like Jimmy said, the big issue would be making weight. I know my fat ass probably wouldn't. But that's why I race an Integra.:D

[iambhooper]

I guess I'm mistaken then in believing that the longer wheelbase cars make for a more stable platform? Have race a ITC CRX for 3 years and in the same situation of looing for the next thing, I too am considering the Integra and or Civics (among pretty much anything else with a pulse). The 96+ civic having a wheelbase of 103 inch's seems atractive.

I have noticed that the 92-93 integra's have performed very well when they have popped up at VIR in the past year... just looking one step beyond, and at something newer as the next car will likely be in the garage for 5+ years.

[bonespec]

Also think about trying to properly CAGE a del SLOW, also known as a del TACO because they like to buckle in the middle from their own weight.

Stretching a sol back into shape to get the targa top back in is not fun. But it has to be done correctly before installing the cage.

[dazzlesa]

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23099 (http://www.improvedtouring.com/forum...ad.php?t=23099)


the motor and tranny are fresh and ready to race
email [email protected]

[R2 Racing]

Rick, your link doesn't work.

http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23099

I can't believe you're still trying to sell that car. A good example.

[dazzlesa]

thanks i redid the link. a super car if you have the funds. i went from zero to hero by getting behind the wheel of this car. the 2nd race out i won :smilie_pokal:. give a jingle if you want a fast car.
rick

[bonespec]

slight mispelling

"4.7 REAR"

Good for a laugh!

[Bob Roth]

I am splitting my season between my ITR Teg R and my Del Sol. On 225 55 14 hoosiers, it handles like a CRX. You can just throw it into a turn and the backend sticks, and you floor it and goes. On both the teg r I own and a 95 ITA teg I rented, they just don't want to hang the back end out like the sol. Soooo if you like getting a car sideways and stomping people into turns, the sol is an interesting choice.

But therin lies the rub. At 2250 (or whatever it weighs) the CRX 1.6 handles better and seems to not give up a lot of power to the SOHC 1.6 Sol at 2550. I suspect racing a CRX with a Sol you will give up a bit on every turn and not make it up on the straight.

Meanwhile, if you want to run a 2550 pound Sol, the 1.8 tegs sem to be making good power. I suspect if you run the Sol against a teg, you wil find you can go into a turn harder and deeper, but at the end of a long straight I think you will have a teg beside or ahead of you.

So, why run a Sol? well if you like the road less traveled the sol is the car for you. It handles like a CRX though the front tires do a lot more work carrying the extra weight than a CRX does . It is also a lot more stout than a CRX in front supension hubs, uprights, and structure. I wouldn't worry about the cage, Punch the rear brace though the rear panel below the window, I can send pictures. At least mine is plenty stiff.

Anyway, my 2 cents is that there is no clear best for ITA. For the money a fully developed used CRX is a great car. However you need to maintain hubs carefully and you need to inspect carefully for cracking in rear and front suspension mounts. I would be wary if you we looking at a CRX with a lot of races (60 or more) as CRX tubs definitely wear out. And when that happens, they tend to break corners off.

If you are building from scratch the Sol or the teg are great options, but these require $$$$ in engine as suspension development.

[R2 Racing]

Bob, I don't know where you got 2550lbs for an ITA Del Sol Si. They're classed at 2330lbs. Just 80lbs more than the CRX. I hope for your sake you're not running one at 2550lbs, as yea, that would be a fat pig. I figured maybe you were talking about an ITS Del Sol VTEC, but those are classed at 2430lbs.

Like I said, at 2330lbs and if I had the money and the need, I'd seriously consider building one. The #1 thing that might keep me from doing it would be the lack of spare body parts you'll (at some time) need. Mechanically, anything from a '92-95 Civic/Del Sol Si should be the same.

[jimmyc]

Like I said, at 2330lbs and if I had the money and the need, I'd seriously consider building one. The #1 thing that might keep me from doing it would be the lack of spare body parts you'll (at some time) need. Mechanically, anything from a '92-95 Civic/Del Sol Si should be the same.

your not going to get it to that weight though. I'd be surprised if you could get an IT legal ITA Del Sol SI below 2400lbs. Its a heavy freaking car.

We have one for Honda Challenge (with more ways to get rid of weight) and it wasn't easy to get it to 2400lbs.

[Bob Roth]

My sol is an ex motorolla cup series car, pro built, legally stripped and about 2350 w/o driver. Add 200 pounds for me and they are freaken heavy 2550 pounds! If you ever tried to drill through the 4 layers of steel in the center tunnel as I have, you would know why they are so solid (and heavy).

If you like the SOHC VTEC, have no doubt that a '93 Si is 200 pounds lighter. But then you are dealing with a 101" wheelbase instead of a 93" base on the sol

[R2 Racing]

Interesting. I never would've thought they'd be that heavy. I guess the design must've required a whole lot of extra bracing. But still, my ITA '92 Integra weighs about 2280 without my fat ass in it, and I simply cannot believe that a Del Sol could weigh more than an Integra.

[Bob Roth]

As best I can tell, its 2300 pounds dry. That is the Sol with me at 2537 - minus me 200 pounds in gear - 2337 minus 37 pounds for 6 gallons left. Its heavy.....

Corner weights were LF 869 RF 722 LR 510 RR 436