Summit 12 Hours

[type r rocket]

So Summit is less than a month away so I thought I would start a thread on it to keep us folks who are a 15 hour drive away in the loop.
Any tid bits of info or fun facts would help,at this point we are staying in a rv so I don't think we need a room yet.But.
This Lumaboard thing,any info on that yet,Summit requires them,I am told there are two sizes,any idea which one they would like to see.And I guess King Rat sells them.If I am complety wrong could someone enlighten us please.

Dave Volante

[IPRESS]

FIFTEEN HOURS thats nothing, there you poormans Dean Martin! :D We will be towing for.......days to get there. But props for bringing up the questions. Dave email me
macspikes at aol dot com

[dave parker]

Dave
Elumaboards are required per the supps. They can be purchased from www.ogracing.com or www.kingratmotorsports.com. There are two different sizes of Elumaboard kits, the supps for the 12 hour do not specify a size. However the large Elumaboard kit is the only one that would allow a competitor to use GCR compliant numbers (height and stroke). I am sure that the "rules nerds" will get a huge debate flowing on this issue.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am an employee of King Rat Motorsports and any statements DO NOT reflect the views and opinions of the management. :happy204:

cheers
Dave Parker
WDCR HP#97
2007 MARRS HP Champion

[MMiskoe]

Interesting.

When the Sup's came out I emailed DC Region & asked what they were after, where to get them and WHY we needed them (I bitched a bit about it). The response I got was that they were not going to be required provided the car had white on black or black on white lettering.

All the stuff I'd seen posted was that they were moderately expensive and rather fragile so if they took a hit or a rock they were shot.

So are they required or not?

[jjjanos]

Interesting.

When the Sup's came out I emailed DC Region & asked what they were after, where to get them and WHY we needed them (I bitched a bit about it).

Because the flaggers cannot read uniluminated numbers. Reflective tape is NFG and so is black on white/white on black. Given the amount of carnage that Some Mopes inflict on each other and innocent bystanders, not being able to see car numbers at night means its a free-for-all on car-to-car contact.


The response I got was that they were not going to be required provided the car had white on black or black on white lettering.

The rules making committee debated this and determined that illuminated numbers were mandatory and that the boards were probably the best option at that time. If someone is telling you that black/white numbers that are not lite are sufficient, then someone is wrong and ignoring the instructions of the rules making committee.


So are they required or not?

Contact the Chief Steward of the event and ask. No one else has the authority to tell you that these will not be required.

There will be push back from the folks who will be on the stations all day if there is not some means to ID your at night.

[Knestis]

Ultimately, the written supps define the rule. However, the real NERD moment here is that those rules mandate use of "Illumi-Boards" - of which there appears to be no such thing. We have something (mandated for the VIR 13 last year) called an "ElumaBoard."

:rolleyes:

K

[type r rocket]

Well,I just ordered a set of the larger ones,this endurance racing thing is getting expensive.Question I have is can you buy just one side panel and not a whole kit?I really don't want to have to get a whole set again after one of you takes my door out:)Anyone had to yet?


Dave

[Knestis]

We're rethinking the entire graphics package of the car, and are relocating the lit boards to the inside of the rear quarter windows. If they get crunched, they'll be the least of our concerns.

K

[mlytle]

Because the flaggers cannot read uniluminated numbers. Reflective tape is NFG and so is black on white/white on black. Given the amount of carnage that Some Mopes inflict on each other and innocent bystanders, not being able to see car numbers at night means its a free-for-all on car-to-car contact.



The rules making committee debated this and determined that illuminated numbers were mandatory and that the boards were probably the best option at that time. If someone is telling you that black/white numbers that are not lite are sufficient, then someone is wrong and ignoring the instructions of the rules making committee.



Contact the Chief Steward of the event and ask. No one else has the authority to tell you that these will not be required.

There will be push back from the folks who will be on the stations all day if there is not some means to ID your at night.

um, what he said.

as part of the rule making body that decided on this, i can assure you the boards are required.

[Chris Humphrey]

um, what he said.

as part of the rule making body that decided on this, i can assure you the boards are required.

Good news!

They are not required anymore according to the email I received from the club office today.

I need that extra cash for my fuel bill.

[JamesB]

Club office or the SOM for the 12 hour?

[MMiskoe]

I'll open myself up as a target for criticism here, but I'd rather be honest.

Last winter I emailed the powers that be to ask if the sup's could be cleaned up to provide clear direction that white on black or black on white lettering would be acceptable rather than having to screw around w/ numbers that are handed out at registration. We always found it be a real pain to apply these such that they would stay on for the race yet not damage the permanent lettering underneath.

I also asked that if the elumiboards were a requirement they could provide some detail on WTF they are.

The resulting answer was that the back-lit boards would not be required and the sup's would be updated to reflect that. When I saw this post I resurrected the email from last winter, the response I got confirmed that the previous answer still stood & the sup's would be updated. Seems they have been updated.

The intent had been only to ask that the damn adhesive numbers handed out at registation would not be required. Sorry if it made changes that people were not expecting.

Personnally I'm not sad that regular old GCR standard numbers will work as it keeps one item off the list of prep to do. Plus from what I've read, those numbers are not terribly durable to tire rubs, rock chips etc. I also don't see what has changed in the past 3 years that is different from the previous 50. Night racing has been going on for decades w/o these numbers. But this is just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Matt

[jjjanos]

The resulting answer was that the back-lit boards would not be required and the sup's would be updated to reflect that. When I saw this post I resurrected the email from last winter, the response I got confirmed that the previous answer still stood & the sup's would be updated. Seems they have been updated.

The committee discussed the inability to see numbers at night at some length and decided that lit numbers would be mandatory. It seems that, once again, someone has ignored the committee and done whatever the hell they want. Might as well not waste everyone's time with having a rules making committee.


Personnally I'm not sad that regular old GCR standard numbers will work as it keeps one item off the list of prep to do. Plus from what I've read, those numbers are not terribly durable to tire rubs, rock chips etc. I also don't see what has changed in the past 3 years that is different from the previous 50. Night racing has been going on for decades w/o these numbers. But this is just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.


For the most part, amatuer racing hasn't happened all that much at night over the history of the club, so the GCR doesn't have rules on night racing. Same goes for refueling. The GCR requirements have never been 100% satisfactory for night racing and it's been left to the Regions to break trail here. The amount of contact in these events - and in particular the 12 Hours at the Point - has gone up dramatically since the introduction of certain types of cars. It always has been impossible to identify cars at night.

What this extralegal decision has just done is given a free pass to contact and passing under the yellow at night. It's difficult enough to spot contact at night, but getting a flashlight on the cars in a split-second is out of the question. Anyone who has spent time out on the corners for a night stint understands that.

[mlytle]

well, i guess this topic will be a lively one at the comp committe 12hr planning meeting tomorrow night. there has been no notice to the committee that our direction to require the boards has changed. i will be pushing to make sure the boards are required...still.

[dave parker]

[quote=MMiskoe;266705]Interesting.


"All the stuff I'd seen posted was that they were moderately expensive and rather fragile so if they took a hit or a rock they were shot."

Mr. Miskoe
I can assure you that the Elumaboard is not "rather fragile". I will provide examples.

The Elumaboard was a required item for the 2007 VIR 13 hour endurance race. ALL seventy cars that took the checkered flag had functioning Elumaboards on both sides of the car. Several of these cars had signifigant crash damage with impacts directly to the Elumaboard.

While annoucing at the SCCA National race at Summit Point this weekend I met a gentleman by the name of John Weisberg. Mr. Weisberg related to me his adventure at the 2007 25 hours of Thunderhill where the Elumaboard on one side of his racecar was cut in half after contact with another competitor. The part of the Elumaboard that was still receiving power continued to function properly. I sold him an individual Elumaboard so that he can continue to have two.

I have confidence that the Elumaboard is a well made, durable product. I have seen that proven in practice for several years now. As a racing equipement retailer for many years, and a racer for even more I would not stand behind or associate my name with a substandard product.

If you would like more information about the Elumaboard please feel free to contact me directly at 540.955.9696 or you can click this link to our website and read about the producthttp://www.kingratmotorsports.com/pm-16-1-elumaboard.aspx (http://www.kingratmotorsports.com/pm-16-1-elumaboard.aspx)

cheers
Dave Parker
Manager
King Rat Motorsports

[IPRESS]

Keep going guys I love a wee wee contest!:happy204:

[MMiskoe]

Well this is quite the shit storm. Sorry about that.

All I was trying to do was avoid having to put on vinyl graphics right before going out on track like we have for the past several years. It has always been a pain and seemed like an easy thing to fix.

As far as the comments that the boards are fragile, when I did a search for them, there were some posts on the SM page from people that had trouble with them. One in particular that said they took a rock to one before the race even started and it severed the power connection, leaving that board useless. There were no commments indicating from people indicating that theirs had been hit & continued to work.

I am not a flagger, I claim to know nothing about how hard it is to spot cars in the dark. It just seemed to me that suddenly there was no way to night racing w/o these boards, which couldn't be true as we all know that cars have been night racing for years. Only in the very recent past have these numbers started getting used.

Free for all on contact? Interesting comment as for the past 6 years that I've been driving in that event contact is minimal and happens during the day light. Perhaps I've been lucky.

So if the lit up boards are a requirement, so be it, all I ask is that a decision get made quickly so those of us who thought we had that item covered have time to make it happen.

Matt

[irondragon]

I got an e-mail today from WDCR that indicates the 'Illumiboards' are acceptable but not required. Isn't that enough to go on ??
I have new numbers - black on white and ready to go on the car.

With all else that needs doing before the race , I think we need to end this fuss now.

Lighted numbers are good to watch but not durable when hit. Unlit numbers also have good and bad features.
I've raced at night for over ten years and had a few problems, but none that illuminated numbers would have prevented or solved.
Let's get ready for the race and argue about how to display numbers next year.
Bill Miskoe - Iron Dragon Racing

[jjjanos]

I am not a flagger, I claim to know nothing about how hard it is to spot cars in the dark. It just seemed to me that suddenly there was no way to night racing w/o these boards, which couldn't be true as we all know that cars have been night racing for years. Only in the very recent past have these numbers started getting used.

It's not that it cannot be done w/o lit numbers. It's that it makes the job of the flaggers much easier w/lit numbers. E.g. you an hold a race without putting any numbers on the cars, the numbers just make it easier to ID the cars.


Free for all on contact? Interesting comment as for the past 6 years that I've been driving in that event contact is minimal and happens during the day light. Perhaps I've been lucky.

You've been lucky. 2 years ago at dusk virtually the entire field of Miatas displayed some level of body damage from contact. In the 2006 13 Hour we were hit 3 times, twice by Miatas and one of those was nose to tail while being passed by an entirely different Miata in Roller Coaster. People are starting to treat these events like extra long sprint races and the amount of aggressive driving has increased with that.


So if the lit up boards are a requirement, so be it, all I ask is that a decision get made quickly so those of us who thought we had that item covered have time to make it happen.

The supps have been changed and posted - either the revised supps were approved by SCCA or through the SoMs or simply changed. Regardless of how they were changed, they are the rules and, IMO, it would be unfair and unwise to revise them again.

But, I would email Terry who is the Chief Steward and final authority on these matters. His email is in the supps, I believe.

[Terry Hanushek]

The Supplemental Regulations for the 2008 12 Hours at the Point are posted on the Region online registration site.

Under Car Preparation:


1. IDENTIFICATION: The car number must be displayed on both sides of he car in one of the following ways...black numbers on a white background, white numbers on a black background or Illumi-Boards.

Illuminated numbers are optional for the event. They are also preferred for the increased visibility cited above. I hope this claifies the number issue.

See ya at the Point

Terry Hanushek
Chief Steward
2008 12 Hours at the Point

[Knestis]

Quoted from the email: "The original Supps contained a typo concerning Car Preparation. Please note the change below which contains the corrected wording. You may refer to the supps for a full copy..."

With respect, that's not a typo - that's a change after the supps were published. It's not that big of a deal but please, let's at least be honest about how it went down.

K

[spnkzss]

I always liked my Lite-Brites in the rear window with my car number on it for night racing :p

[Gregg]

OUR Lite-Brites!

BTW--I still have a couple thousand pegs available to those who need some.

[jjjanos]

OUR Lite-Brites!

BTW--I still have a couple thousand pegs available to those who need some.

Maybe you could use them to make your dash light up? :p

[spnkzss]

Maybe you could use them to make your dash light up? :p

That's funny right thar. I don't care who you are. :) Or maybe his DASH....TOO!?

[Edwin Robinson]

Cmon people:

I know this is just fantasy, but it's fun to dream:

1) "Rocks damage the illumiboard or whatever..." ..Well then why are some of us driving in rocks? This isn't the Rally at the Point!
2) Racing is rather expensive, and this isn't a knock against the technology... BUT, I've only seen these used in ALMS and LeMans prior to this getting brought up....this isn't exacly the same level or budget for most is it? Can't we be a bit more respectful?
3) With respect to the carnage, etc... Well, then I think all the cows and deer need to have Illumiboards too! This way I'll know which one of those ***!DX!!! jump in front of me....

Added-> Oh Shi* - I forgot the Turkey! The turkey needs a small board!

~ER.