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Ron Earp
05-12-2008, 08:47 AM
I thought some folks would be interested in my 260Z dyno plots so here they are. We’ve never pulled the 260Z before and figured before this weekend’s VIR race we’d get it and the TR8 on the rollers to see what they would do. The dyno runs were performed at a shop here in Durham NC that we use a lot and they run a Dynojet we’re familiar with.

The baseline pull for the 260Z was 152hp and 155tq, not very impressive. I proceeded to adjust the timing and make additional runs and also adjust the needle height on my carbs to balance EGT’s and A/F. We made about eight pulls and over time the motor became heat soaked with running temps around 200F. In comparison I run about 180-5F in races with a good radiator, oil cooler, and oil thermostat. We just couldn’t get the air flow to duplicate those temps.

After all the adjustments we came up with a best setup of 159hp and 162tq, but those gains were realized throughout the RPM range – not just at peak. I feel it was money well spent but I know that there is more power in this motor for sure. I think this motor would be a 80% IT type build (not meaning you are getting 20% more power from a 100% build!) – it was assembled well, with good components, new valves, springs, good balancing, etc. but certainly isn’t build to IT max specs. To give you an idea here are the areas that I think need improvement:

1)Rocker arm contact with valves needs to be optimized. Head prep/port/machining isn’t bad, but I’m sure it isn’t the equal of what the best Z builders have to offer.

2)Exhaust system needs to be reconstructed. I’m running through a muffler, about 92 dB sound, and the primary pipes on this header I feel are too large at 1 5/8”.

3)Carbs are still “off” – EGT’s can’t be balanced exactly and during my VIR race the car stumbled at a couple of places on track seriously costing me time/power. Didn’t do it on the dyno though, but the point is I’ve never experienced the 159hp/162tq on track I’m supposed to have.

4)Cam timing needs to be checked and made spot on. I’m using factory marks but have not verified this setup properly with a degree wheel. I did it once last year before my head gasket issue, but I think I didn’t do it correctly and it needs to be re-done.

5)And lots of other little things…..oils, spark plug indexing, air intake plumbing, and so on.

I understand that the higher hp Z builds (240s) will be around 175 hp and torque in that ballpark, so we’ve a ways to go. Still, I was happy with the dyno session and felt like I picked up some performance and a better understanding of the motor.

R

Mike Mackaman
05-13-2008, 01:44 PM
This looks good, I haven't been on a dyno in several years, but the last time I was on the dyno, I ran about 148hp with a stock block, no balancing, stock oil pan, and a junk header. Have you done a leakdown? You may want to look at your floats, I had the sputtering that you described a few years ago, put new floats in and it was like a new car.

I will look you up the next time I am at the track. I have some ideas and some cool tools to work with at home. Email me if you are interested.

Mike

Ron Earp
05-13-2008, 02:35 PM
Hey Mike,

Get on out to the track, missed you this past weekend.

Leakdown was done about 3 hours ago (17 total race hours on the motor) and was extremely strong - 2%, 3%, 1%, 3%, 1%, 2% cylinders 1 through 6.

I "floated my floats" last week while rebuilding my carbs and they float. But, I am fairly certain my fuel level in the bowls is too high. I have been setting them up incorrectly and figured that out this past weekend. Got a new plan there....

I've got some new things to try out at CMP next time down, are you heading there for the race?

R

Ron Earp
05-13-2008, 07:53 PM
Hey Mike,

I think your email feature is turned off as is your PMs.

What do you fellows know about the oil spray bar system on the Zs? I have one but one of the spray tubes is loose. How are these afixed? Soldered? And, where the tube system attaches to the cam tower is there a gasket there, and if so, who is a good source for them?

spawpoet
05-14-2008, 08:51 AM
There is no gasket Ron. We had the end of one of the spray bars blow off at an event last fall, and it got wedged between the valvetrain and the cam tower. We thought at the time we might have bent a valve, but luckily we have no damage. I think they are soldered on, but we just pulled a spray bar from one of our spare engines to install rather than repair the faulty bar.

chris

Ron Earp
05-14-2008, 09:08 AM
Hey Chris,

Thanks for the heads up on that. I'll solder/braze the tube that fell out and I should be good to go. I have a spare, but somehow it got bent badly and don't want to try it.

Ron

dspillrat
05-14-2008, 09:13 AM
HI Ron,
Interesting HP curve..... Call nissan, and order a new bar.....To me its not worth the risk of peice of 20 year old crud blocking a oil hole, and ruining a lobe. $30 bucks maybe. While your at the dealership just bite the bullet and order a 240z or 260z cam.... Last I heard, the 280z cam part number superseded earlier cams....plus has internal holes drilled, for a second layer of protection for thase lobes.... That being said the "260" C cam may be better then later cams....

David Spillman

Ron Earp
05-14-2008, 09:57 AM
HI Ron,
Interesting HP curve..... Call nissan, and order a new bar.....To me its not worth the risk of peice of 20 year old crud blocking a oil hole, and ruining a lobe. $30 bucks maybe. While your at the dealership just bite the bullet and order a 240z or 260z cam.... Last I heard, the 280z cam part number superseded earlier cams....plus has internal holes drilled, for a second layer of protection for thase lobes.... That being said the "260" C cam may be better then later cams....


The C cams ARE still available despite what I've heard and thought for quite some time. I'd been told from a couple of Z folks that C cams are NLA and superseded by A cams, in fact, I have an old piece of correspondence that came with my car from the Atlanta area that suggests that.

Yesterday I found out from Riley that there are 12 C cams located in Dallas and that is the last 12 there ever will be from Nissan. Cost is about $450 each, so they are still available. Probably enough to keep the few 260Z racers in cams til 2025. I called back today about a new spray bar, $49. Thanks for suggesting that David, I'd have not thought about buying a new one as I always assume this stuff is just repairable and you can't buy new.

I'll get my carbs sorted, exhaust fixed up a bit, and do some more pulls before the CMP race.

JeffYoung
05-14-2008, 10:57 AM
12 left....funny. You should snap one up as a spare in case...yours snaps.....

Ron Earp
05-14-2008, 11:13 AM
I suppose I could buy all 12 and make them "No Longer Available" by leaving them in your shed and then get a letter from Nissan stating I have to use the A cam.

However, from what I've been told the C cam is the better cam as it was the "cheater" cam back in the day. Not sure how much of that is truth though.

R

JeffYoung
05-14-2008, 11:19 AM
There are quite a few NLA parts in my shed(s).

What is the lift/duration difference with the C cam over the A?

Mike Mackaman
05-14-2008, 05:24 PM
There are two types of spray bars. The original has cast parts that attach to the cam towers and tubes that press in. These are junk! They will vibrate out and can kill an engine due to massive loss of oil pressure. The newer parts are stamped and brazed. all parts are steel. These are much better. There is a gasket on the #2 and 4 cam towers, they come with the spray bar. Never have seen one seperate.

Another word to the wise, check the bolts that hold the spray bar on. I had a lock washer on one bold break in half and allow the bolt to back off. Dropped my oil pressure a good bit. Probably didn't do the cam any favors as well. I don't use that cam anymore! Gotta love a fast reading pressure gauge!

Mike

Ron Earp
05-15-2008, 12:51 PM
What is the lift/duration difference with the C cam over the A?

I don't know off hand, I had that data and now I can't find it. I think it was discussed on this forum at some point, anyone know where or have info?

R

Ron Earp
05-18-2008, 06:38 PM
Ok, found that data on the Z cams. I'll just put the important specs here, got them all but most isn't that important for comparison, just for checking one out.

The A and C cams are very similar.

Both are ground on 109 degree lobe centers and will deliver similar power bands. The C cam has 10 more degrees of duration over the A cam and in theory could result in a bit better cylinder filling raising VE a bit. So the advantage here would go the the C cam, slightly.

The lift on both cams are identical on exhaust at 10.4mm, but on the intake the A cam has 0.5mm more lift at 10.5mm versus 10.mm for the C. Advantage here would go to the A cam, slightly.

The 260Z head has a 1mm larger exhaust valve over the 240Z, so slight advantage to the 260Z head. However, the 260Z has about 0.5 points lower on compression than the 240Z, advantage 240Z.

Looks like a big wash to me. I'm told from Riley and others the C cam was a good cheat back in the day for 240Z drivers, but it looks like it wouldn't be much of a cheat.

As for the 280Z there are a bunch of cams - A, F, B, J, M, and E. The best one out of the bunch seems to be the A which exactly mimics the A for the 240Z.

Curiously enough, out of all the cams the 260Z C cam has the longest duration.

Ron