Plain old gas ( POG )

[77ITA]

life changed, sorry guys. No more POG.

[Knestis]

Count me in. I'll to the registration thing when I'm on my home computer but I think it's a worthy idea.

I'd echo earlier concerns about avgas, as someone who used to be able to buy it for not a lot more than good pump premium. Philosophically, it's nowhere near the exotic blends and I think it should be OK. I don't use it now though so that won't stop me from participating.

K

EDIT - I got a huge laugh out of the note attached to some of the SM POG "members" commitments at that site: "For any given race, I will if everyone else does but I might not if someone else does not". Way to make a stand, you wusses. That's like people that get tribal tattoos in places they can cover up easily with their work clothes, a practice a friend used to call "a retractable social statement."

[77ITA]

I've got the first batch of 100 stickers on order! Don't be shy!:eclipsee_steering:

[shwah]

I'll get my gas tested this weekend, to make sure that Chicago area emission blends don't kick me out of the SCCA spec - which of course will present a new problem for me. It would suck to have to pay $7 / gal for the same stuff at the track, rather than $5.50 / gal with emissions crap in it.

If it is good, I'm game for POG.

[Eagle7]

I assume the premix oil for my rotary disqualifies me.

[rsx858]

yea we RX7 guys need that oil premix no performance value in fact it dilutes the octane whats the deal?

[77ITA]

As far as I understand, you rotory racers need to add oil to any fuel that you are using. If you're adding oil to "plain old gas" and you feel that what you're doing falls within the concept of POG, then I invite you to take part. It's really all about the pledge to not use exotic or expensive fuels to gain an advantage (or prevent a disadvantage)

Conversly, if you are mixing exotic oil with regular fuel, regular oil with exotic fuel, or exotic oil with exotic fuel then you are pushing the limits and I would suggest that POG is not for you.

[rsx858]

As far as I understand, you rotory racers need to add oil to any fuel that you are using. If you're adding oil to "plain old gas" and you feel that what you're doing falls within the concept of POG, then I invite you to take part. It's really all about the pledge to not use exotic or expensive fuels to gain an advantage (or prevent a disadvantage)

Conversly, if you are mixing exotic oil with regular fuel, regular oil with exotic fuel, or exotic oil with exotic fuel then you are pushing the limits and I would suggest that POG is not for you.

Yup, i mix with everyday pump gas we dont get much from high octane anyway

I certaily like the idea of all people using similar fuel. Im curious how many of the IT guys are using exotic stuff. it sounds like SM is having a fairly serious issue with this.

[RacerBill]

Send me da stickers!!!!! Please. I fill up my car and cans at the gas station closest to the track!

[924Guy]

Email sent... my brew of choice is Costco Premium! ;)

[JeffYoung]

I will perform a test this weekend. I will use 104 octane gas from the VIR race pumps. IF I AM NOT 3 SECONDS A LAP FASTER I'M GONNA GET REAL MAD!

REAL MAD!

VERY MAD!

RED FACED SILLY MAD!

ARRRRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MAD!

[924Guy]

Uh-oh, too many Scotts now, we need some more Blethens to balance things out!

Speaking of which, ever get that 944 running? ;)

[RussMcB]

Is this limited to SM & IT? I like the idea, but I race in FB (F1000).

[RacerBill]

:( Uh Oh!!!!!!! I ordered stickers but just remembered that I don't have a fuel door on the Shelby!!!!!! I'll put em somewhere, though.

[RSTPerformance]

Uh-oh, too many Scotts now, we need some more Blethens to balance things out!

Speaking of which, ever get that 944 running? ;)



I got the stickers the other day for the two Audi's (THANK YOU!!!)... but you will have to work on my dad!!!

He did get the car running last year and did 3 races with it... He had ground control suspension that didn't work so well. He went out and got all new suspension and did some other work on the car to get it much closer to the front! He planned on getting to Pocono this weekend but didn't get it done in time.

Raymond "Now all we need is a gas sponsor to get to/from the track" Blethen

[924Guy]

I got the stickers the other day for the two Audi's (THANK YOU!!!)... but you will have to work on my dad!!!

He did get the car running last year and did 3 races with it... He had ground control suspension that didn't work so well. He went out and got all new suspension and did some other work on the car to get it much closer to the front! He planned on getting to Pocono this weekend but didn't get it done in time.

Raymond "Now all we need is a gas sponsor to get to/from the track" Blethen

LOL... would love to hear more (though perhaps directly or a thread in the P-car section)... likewise, if I can help with suspension options/setup, give a shout! :eclipsee_steering: Just overhauled the suspension on my teammate's (ITB ) 924, we'll both be down there at the 'Fest in Aug giving you fits! ;)

[paul59]

I would like to have one of the POG stickers for my car...
Paul Goyette
1983 Porsche 944, SPU

Great idea by the way!!!!
Paul Goyettehttp://72.167.111.130/forums/cid:000601c8b2b3$6584c7f0$44d25dce@DHZS6H51Paul Goyette
Sales Consultant Brumos Porsche
10100 Atlantic Blvd.
Jacksonville, Fl.32225
www.brumosporsche.com (http://www.brumosporsche.com) [email protected]
www.brumosporsche.com (http://www.brumosporsche.com) tel:
tel2:
fax: 1-800-434-8514
904-725-9155
904-724-2932 Always have my latest info (https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=369557&v0=733522&k0=1908937998&src=client_sig_212_1_photo_join&invite=1)Want a signature like this? (http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_photo_sig)

[paul59]

I recieved mine today, Thank You!!!

[77ITA]

Huge update on the registration list, thanks for the interest guys! :happy204:

[nsuracer]

This is an opinion from the race engine builder that does all my machine work. Low compression engines do not do well on high octane fuel. He says that only do you spend more money but the performance is less. He is a circle track guy and he says that the engines are lazy. I imagine that it slows the burn rate down.

[raffaelli]

Sticker is on my car!

[Z3_GoCar]

This is an opinion from the race engine builder that does all my machine work. Low compression engines do not do well on high octane fuel. He says that only do you spend more money but the performance is less. He is a circle track guy and he says that the engines are lazy. I imagine that it slows the burn rate down.

I'm curious what he considers low compression to be. Also is he talking about static compression or dynamic, where the cam and possible varible valve timeing is concerned?

James

[Mike Mackaman]

everything I have heard or read says that once you have enough octane for the compression you are running, any more and you are loosing power. The burn rate slows, which hurts power. Is this a big effect, probably not. But who wants to sign up for less power for more money.

Mike

[SportsCar]

Can someone educate me on the "rocket" and "exotic" fuels that are the issue? We have a Spec Miata and dyno lined up to put POG VS Rocket fuel to the test, for an upcoming issue of SportsCar. I want to make sure we get the right fuels, so someone help me out.

I would really like to hear from people on both sides of this issue, of course you can email me directly if you wish to be anonymous.

[email protected]

[Greg Amy]

The problem you're going to have, Jason, is that the folks running this "rocket fuel" are not really going to want to divulge what they're running. I personally don't know what most of this stuff is, but a lot of it is pretty evil.

<info removed by author>

And, don't forget the car will need to be re-tuned specifically for the different blends... - GA

[77ITA]

Can someone educate me

Generally, it's the job of a journalist is to educate themselves on the topic they wish to cover, but I did respond to your email with some details. Please fill yourself in on all the facts before creating an article or it will not be much of a service to the community. I'd recommend browsing through all the links and info from the original posting here, specifically the discussion on the http://specmiata.com/ web forums.

Thanks for your time,
Jeff Seelig; IT POG Admin

[Speed Raycer]

Generally, it's the job of a journalist is to educate themselves on the topic they wish to cover

Cant fault the guy for asking questions of the people that know what they're talking about or have first hand experience.

[SportsCar]

Generally, it's the job of a journalist is to educate themselves on the topic they wish to cover, but I did respond to your email with some details. Please fill yourself in on all the facts before creating an article or it will not be much of a service to the community. I'd recommend browsing through all the links and info from the original posting here, specifically the discussion on the SM web forums.

Thanks for your time,
Jeff Seelig; IT POG Admin

Typically in an effort to educate ourselves on any topic we seek out experts in that field... As the self proclaimed POG Admin I suppose you could qualify as some type of expert. On the other hand I don't know if you are a chemist/fuel engineer, or just someone who does not like others to spend more money to go fast. :shrug:

When I talk to an engineer at the fuel manufacturer, I know they are qualified and will give me factual data. :024:

I have looked at your site as well as the links to it. I see a lot of complaints about exotic fuels and there alleged effects, but no specifics as to the fuels in question. This is your opportunity to inform us on your side of the issue, if you leave information out that you deem important to your cause, that would be a shame. :rolleyes:

[SLUF]

I bet if you try www.vpracingfuels.com (http://www.vpracingfuels.com) there would be some useful information.

[77ITA]

Typically in an effort to educate ourselves on any topic we seek out experts in that field... As the self proclaimed POG Admin I suppose you could qualify as some type of expert.

I'm doing the best I can to support a cause that I believe in, but unfortunately I don't have large quantities of spare time. Your first e-mail to me was rather vague and attempting to summarize everything for you via email would surely cause you to lose out on some important details and perspectives. It's your job as an journalist to seek out all the information on the subject and there's not much more that I can tell you other than what is available in [easily accessible] online print.

I did email you with the contact information of someone that is eager to contribute as well as a few more details that I had to offer.

All this being said, I apologize for coming off brash. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your objective coverage on the subject and I am sure it will be of much value to the Club Racing community as well as the POG effort.

Thanks again,

[lateapex911]

When I talk to an engineer at the fuel manufacturer, I know they are qualified to give me factual data..... :024:

I :rolleyes:

Helped you out with that...

Whether you get it, and whether you get the entire picture, even from one source, is another thing entirely. Just sayin'...........

[Knestis]

BTW, I've got my sticky on...

K

[JIgou]

VP SR1 is one of the fuels a bunch of Spec Miata guys are running...or at least talking about. Using this fuel I saw +2.5 HP on the dyno with my '91, and that's vs. a VERY good AFM. I took the opportunity to tune a second AFM for the "bad" stuff just in case I ever decided to run it - with my good AFM I went too lean with the rocket fuel, and I wasn't about to dink with the good AFM for a "might run it" fuel. As it's happened, I've never run the stuff and doubt I ever will.

ERC also has a product that produces more power than POG. My understanding is that it adds slightly less power than the VP fuel, but is also "some" cheaper.

The SR1 fuel has a slightly different scent to it, but isn't the worst offender; if you ever want to clear everyone out of your paddock spot, crack open a jug of ERC - it will do the job, even if the wind is blowing.

Jarrod

[77ITA]

I've been MIA due to a new house, a new job, and an S2000 ITR car that may never see the light of day. No fear though, as POG is still running strong. Updated the list today!

thanks,
-Jeff

[kgobey]

What a great idea, when I get the car finished you bet I'd support this. Keep Grass roots racing what it is.!

[shwah]

I haven't checked in on this one for a while.

Was it ever agreed whether 100 unleaded pump gas (like Sunoco 260 GT 100)is considered POG?

I ask because while I fully support the concept, I use 100 on my 10.48:1 motor. It is more than I need, except if something goes wrong and it runs lean (which happened a few times last year). Cheap insurance, but I don't want to run the sticker if folks don't think it 'fits'.

[vtluu]

Was it ever agreed whether 100 unleaded pump gas (like Sunoco 260 GT 100)is considered POG?


POG is defined to include:
1. What can be purchased from a pump at a retail gas station for legal street use.
2. What can be purchased from a track pump at the track where the race is held.

100 pump gas falls into one or both of the above, so yes, 100-octane pump gas is POG.

I wasn't previously aware there was an IT POG initiative; signing up now...

[77ITA]

Mailed more stickers today!

Career moves are keeping me from racing, but the POG movement is growing!

:happy204: