Rod end/spherical bushing question

[pballance]

This is one I am sure the GCR scholars will pounce on but here goes. :)

My reading (paraphrase) of the GCR says that bushings can be replaced and solid bushings and spherical bushings may be used provided they provide NO other function other than that of the bushing. If that is the case, here is my question:

Can I replace the rear lower control arm bushings, inner and outer, with spherical bushings?

Of course, it would follow that I could do the same in the front as well but it is still assembled right now. :)

And the real question: Is it going to make that much of a difference over poly bushings? My gut says no and poly, even with replacement issues, wear etc, there will not be a significant (yeah that's loaded) performance change in the car.

I have enough control arms on hand that I could do both but the labor would be a killer.

Thoughts?

[JeffYoung]

Yes, you can do that. Took a lot of debate to get to that point, but sphericals are all legal now.

Will it make a noticeable difference? I have them in my car, at great (custom) expense. I can't say for sure how much of the improvement I've seen overall the last 2 years is attributable to them, but they are part of I would suspect most front running IT programs.

Do you need them now? No. Will you need them at some point to have that 100% Z that can run at the front? Yes.

[Parrish57]

Jeff said it all, but I can't reiterate strongly enough how important it is to keep up with your suspension adjustments. I can testify to the detrimental effects of neglecting them. At the last race in Kershaw my spherical bushing on the left rear spun on me causing the tire to be toed in about a half an inch. I was chasing KVS but just couldn't get to the gas. The Silver Bullit was pushing like a dog sled! The setup on the car is worth just as much in lap time as sticker tires, horsepower, shocks, and testicular fortitude. If you have all of them aligning at once you will see everyone else in your rear view mirror.

[pballance]

Hmm, pushing like a dog. That is the kind of input I need. Make the suspension work and the lack of hp is less noticible.

I assume you were using solid eccentrics on the rear? I already have those on hand left over from years ago. Anybody got the adjusting tool for Far Performance eccentric bushings I can borrow to make a new tool?

[JeffYoung]

Yup, Steve is 100% right. Once you get to a reasonable level of power, it's all about setup and who can stand on the gas the earliest. KVS wasn't beating us with hp at CMP, trust me.

[jrvisual]

Make sure you get those bolts on the front good and tight and check them often. Ask Ron E. what happens :owhen they aren't tight enough.

[Parrish57]

Make sure you get those bolts on the front good and tight and check them often. Ask Ron E. what happens :owhen they aren't tight enough.

Jeff... That's true for just about every bolt on the car! Especially the nut behind the wheel...

Paul... If by "tool" you mean the flat piece of metal that they sell for $6.95 don't waste your money. Vise grips or a large monkey wrench will do the job!

edit... meant to say channel locks, not vise grips.

[jrvisual]

I am yet to find a wrench the fits the nut behind the wheel. Any ideas where I can get one?

[dspillrat]

HI Guys,
Wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth here.....I'm right at the top of the "TFOMC" list. Having suffered through many incomplete weekends due to "TFOMC" I have learned that the only way to make sure that this or that nut/bolt/wheel/steering wheel stays on car is to Jeff it up...... Intentionally cross threading important parts that ARE IMPORTANT TO THE CAR STAYING ON THE TRACK.......has increased chances of finishing races.... Replacing these parts are gonna be a bitcch. I gotta talk to the inventer of this process at roebling to determine proper un doing of a jeffed up project!!


David

[jrvisual]

HI Guys,
I gotta talk to the inventer of this process at roebling to determine proper un doing of a jeffed up project!!

That process always starts the same way. Open wallet, take out credit card.

[JeffYoung]

[
bring that Z car on over to our paddock..I'll Jeff it up for you and make SURE it finishes both races.....lol......

Ron has also bestowed on me, after years of watching me work, the title of Master of the Cross Thread. I can do it anytime, anywhere. Shit's tight though! Just don't be telling me it has to come off or something like that.

quote=dspillrat;263696]HI Guys,
Wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth here.....I'm right at the top of the "TFOMC" list. Having suffered through many incomplete weekends due to "TFOMC" I have learned that the only way to make sure that this or that nut/bolt/wheel/steering wheel stays on car is to Jeff it up...... Intentionally cross threading important parts that ARE IMPORTANT TO THE CAR STAYING ON THE TRACK.......has increased chances of finishing races.... Replacing these parts are gonna be a bitcch. I gotta talk to the inventer of this process at roebling to determine proper un doing of a jeffed up project!!


David[/quote]

[JoshS]

I am yet to find a wrench the fits the nut behind the wheel. Any ideas where I can get one?
It's called a pilot wrench. They sell them at driving schools.

[JeffYoung]

Actually they come in 12 packs. Say "Budweiser" on the side.

[Parrish57]

Actually they come in 12 packs. Say "Budweiser" on the side.

Is that how you make sure the nut behind the wheel is "tight"?

[pballance]

........I'm right at the top of the "TFOMC" list. Having suffered through many incomplete weekends due to "TFOMC" I have learned that the only way to make sure that this or that nut/bolt/wheel/steering wheel stays on car is to Jeff it up...... David

Ok, I give up, I understand the Jeffed up part but what the heck is "TFMOC"?

David, whatever you do don't go near the Jeffed up paddock. Those guys are likely to try and overtighten the nut behind the wheel and then you would end up driving some british racing green Jeffed up car...................
:p

[Ron Earp]

Actually they come in 12 packs. Say "Budweiser" on the side.

The last wrenches I saw around the Parrish camp said Coors on the side. And the set of wrenches I bought were from PBR. Are the Budweiser wrenches better?

[JeffYoung]

Better than Craftsman. When you empty it, you take it over to MItchell's paddock and grab a brand new one from his cooler!

[mom'sZ]

Paul:
I think (meaning this is only my opinion) that there may be another benefit to using the sphericals (or a few depending on who's counting). I think (again IMHO) the main reason the sphericals got declared legal was because at the lower ride heights we are allowed to run some car's suspensions end up in a part of the camber curve they were never really meant to be in (except at extremes of suspension travel). Some cars end up getting a lot of suspension bind at these ride heights. The sphericals, because they can move in more then one plane, help to relieve this issue. On a Zcar, I'm not sure that is an issue. But if you were to take advantage of the allowance to modify your rear crossmember in order to be able to adjust toe on the rear wheel, you may end up with an issue with bind. I've always heard the adjustable (eccentric) bushings for the rear were notorious for moving around and lossing adjustment, so have stayed away. I've never found non adjustable sphericals for the rear and have considered trying to fit something up from scratch. I have the front ones from Design Products. Another possible benefit is that the sphericals move much easier then the poly ones. I've also always heard removing stiction from a strut car is very important for getting that type of suspension to work well.

[lateapex911]

..........t what the heck is "TFMOC"?


:p

The _______ Master of the Cross Thread??

[pballance]

I think you got it Jake. Makes sense to me.

Hmm, I am not sure I can "legally" go with the design products rear control arm. IF it provides adjustment for toe then is it "providing a function that would otherwise be prohibited?"

What do you guys think, although the price is high...

[JeffYoung]

Is it a traction arm? lol...been down that before....

No, I don't think that is legal. You are replacing the entire lower control arm with an aftermarket piece that is not identical, and that performs a function the stock one does not.

[pballance]

Actually it is the OEM control arm fitted with rod ends in place of the oem bushings and some gussets for strength.

[Ron Earp]

I think you got it Jake. Makes sense to me.

Hmm, I am not sure I can "legally" go with the design products rear control arm. IF it provides adjustment for toe then is it "providing a function that would otherwise be prohibited?"

What do you guys think, although the price is high...

Ummmmmmmm no. Not sure you'll be able to run that one here in the SE without running afoul of the rules. Have to use the silly eccentrics with the super thin wrench to adjust them.

[ddewhurst]

Rule 9.1.3.C.5.d.6.

"This includes the use of spherical bearings, so long as no suspension component is modified to facilitate their installation."

[JeffYoung]

+1 on David's post.

It may sound silly, but screwing in eccentrics like that is not legal. You have to insert them with tack welds into where the bushings went originally.

[dspillrat]

Hmmm...

THINGS FALL OF MY CAR.......Jeffed up prevents many things from falling off....Sometimes.....


Reminds me of another instance of car prep er...unprep.....

Several years back I went off drivers right at Nascar at VIR........slow rolled over on to my roof....after bout breaking my neck, when I released my belts, I was pleased to find my 1/2 inch impact wrench I had lost couple months before....had to have fallen down into the storage compartments....
Knowing of my ability to loss tools in and on my car, I'd be sure to stay clear of the rear of my car first couple of laps....:eclipsee_steering:

Hope ya'll aren't taking this too seriously!!!!

David Spillman

[pballance]

Hmmm...

THINGS FALL OF MY CAR.......Jeffed up prevents many things from falling off....Sometimes.....

:eclipsee_steering:

Hope ya'll aren't taking this too seriously!!!!

David Spillman

Nope and thanks for the clarification! Hope to see you on track this year