Tire Rack Heat Cycled Tires

[22BMWPiloti]

Has anyone bought tires from the Tire Rack and had them heat cycled by the Tire Rack prior to shipping. It sounds like a good idea due to limited track opportunities to break in new tires. I would be purchasing Hoosier R6's. I appreciate answers to previous questions on this forum; racers helping racers.

[gran racing]

I have once, but honestly can't say if they lasted any longer because of it.

[rsx858]

I buy all my hoosiers from tire rack (im friends with a distributor so i get a good price) and i always get them heat cyled. I have never run on a hoosier not heat cycled so i cant truley compare, yet i hear of many high budget teams getting a new set every 2 weekends, I on the otherhand ran my last set for 8 events last season and am gonna use them for a the first few events this season!

I believe that they use a machine to cycle the tires. the machine gradually adds pressure to increase heat and then the tires are shipped. by the time they arrive they are fully cured and ready to go. I like this because no tread is lost by taking them out for a heat cycle on the track, and like i said i believe they really do last a good while

but again i have never tried the alternative.

[wcmcarlos]

I bought a set of 710's, had them done, at the price, I felt it could not hurt.
And I cannot afford to juggle three or more sets to heat cycle on track.
I EXPECTED THE kUMHOS TO WEAR QUICKLY, BUT HAVE 8 HOURS OF TRACK TIME ON THEM, AND STILL HAVE TREAD LINES.:happy204:
of course, I rotate constantly.:blink:
Carlos

[mlytle]

heat cycling has nothing to do with tread life. it cures the tread material so that it theoretically keeps it's grip longer.

race tires are dead long before the tread is gone. hoosier r6's seem to be good for about 8 heat cycles (not weekends) before they noticably fall off in grip. after a dozen cycles, they have lots of tread left, but aren't even worth practiciing on.

ymmv...

[wcmcarlos]

A line from Steve Martin's old SNL days seems to be pertinate now,
"Well Excuuuse Me!"
Carlos

[shwah]

heat cycling has nothing to do with tread life. it cures the tread material so that it theoretically keeps it's grip longer.

race tires are dead long before the tread is gone. hoosier r6's seem to be good for about 8 heat cycles (not weekends) before they noticably fall off in grip. after a dozen cycles, they have lots of tread left, but aren't even worth practiciing on.

ymmv...

Yes not about physical wear, But.

How many heat cycles are those same R6s good for if you start their life by qualifying hard and racing hard on them, rather than just heating up and letting them 'rest' for 24hrs (or 2 weeks if you can)? More importantly, can the mechanism at play really be duplicated by loading the tires on a rig, rather than exposing them to some good old fasioned slip angle?

[rsx858]

correction to my previous post mine have lasted for 8 CYCLES not weekends!

As far as the machine is concerned, sure im skeptical but if it generates the same amout of heat and brings it up to temp at the proper rate, i dont see why doing it on the track would be any better. I like to think that TireRack has some know how as they carry a lot of competition tires and have done some testing between brands.

all i know is that its not practical for me to bring 3 sets of tires to the track so i can heat cycle them correctly and i certainly want the benefits of having it done right. -tireracks option works for me.

[rsx858]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=66

Some info on TireRacks heat cycle

[seckerich]

I just can't make myself pay someone to "lick the candy" off a new set of stickers. I would rather have that sweet qualifier and let them simmer. Just learn to buy the tires a weekend ahead of when you need them.:023:

[joeg]

Save your money. I tried it a while ago and noticed no difference in tire life. For me, there is absolutely nothing faster than a brand new sticker tire and heat cycling should remove the stickers..

[gran racing]

and heat cycling should remove the stickers..

I always thought that was a bit odd. Maybe they remove the stickers and put them back on?

[Greg Amy]

Frankly, I look at the heat cycle process as yet another opportunity to use the tires myself, instead of paying someone else to do it.

All it takes is discipline.

Tell you what: if you want a good, cheap heat cycle, I'll take your car out on the first run of each day, for a free beer that night.

Deal?

(BTW, I won the '06 ARRC on sticker tires. And, IIRC, so did Joey in '07. Pull the Hoosier techs aside and they'll tell you the tires are fastest green, but you'll give up a couple of usable heat cycles... - GA)

[JeffYoung]

I've always thought that they were fastest that first session out without heat cycling as well.

Greg, your experience is you lose 2-3 heat cycles on the back end if you do that?

[Greg Amy]

...you lose 2-3 heat cycles on the back end if you do that?
:shrug:

No direct experience. We usually rotated them to the back of the car after 7-8 cycles anyway, where they stayed until they dry-rotted...or got flat-spotted...

[lateapex911]

Ahhhhhh...the black art of heat cycling.

I used to have the Tire Rack heat cycle them...because I thought the driver (me) needed track time...lots of laps, and I didn't want to waste most of a session. And yea, well, because I had no spare wheels!

Ideally now, with spare wheels, i use a test day to heat cycle them. That gives them more than the min 24 hours to "cure".

My TR tires felt like they went off after 7 or so sessions, and lap times were up a second or so, at the tracks where I ran consistently.

I wish Rodney from Appalachian Tire were here. Of all the people I've discussed this with, he has the best handle on it. He suggests one short session to get them up to temp. (And easy lap, a moderate lap, then a hard lap, then a cool off lap, then off the car for a week. (24 hrs min) Then they should last a few sessions longer. For me thats about 9 or 10 or so.

Your mileage will vary depending on your car, your setup, etc.

I've never used a tire until the tread was gone! Except in a 3 hour enduro, but you could see the air in the front right ....

[shwah]

Jake - that is exactly what I have been told, but I heard any real results on the topic. You seem to have had just the right experience to address the issue. Sounds like 'artificial' heat cycling does not provide the same stability in the compound as 'live' heat cycling.

I think what is really happening is we are breaking down some of the bonds in the material, and they 're- cross link' as they cool. Because they were heated, and loaded in the same way they will be in a race, the resulting structure is aligned favorably for that loading scenario. BUT I'm not a materials guy - just making a guess.

[dj10]

Frankly, I look at the heat cycle process as yet another opportunity to use the tires myself, instead of paying someone else to do it.

All it takes is discipline.

Tell you what: if you want a good, cheap heat cycle, I'll take your car out on the first run of each day, for a free beer that night.

Deal?

(BTW, I won the '06 ARRC on sticker tires. And, IIRC, so did Joey in '07. Pull the Hoosier techs aside and they'll tell you the tires are fastest green, but you'll give up a couple of usable heat cycles... - GA)

Great Idea Greg!!!!!!
I WILL HEAT CYCLE TIRES FOR, in my case, WILD TURKEY,"101":023:

[gran racing]

Pull the Hoosier techs aside and they'll tell you the tires are fastest green, but you'll give up a couple of usable heat cycles...

When discussing this thread http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22452&highlight=heat+cycle and talking to a few people who most definately know their stuff and have been in the rae tire business for a long time, they've told me that DOT race tires are faster if properly heat cycled. Time to send another e-mail out tonight to confirm I didn't misunderstand anything.

[Greg Amy]

Time to send another e-mail out tonight to confirm I didn't misunderstand anything.
Good luck; you will never get someone to put to paper that Hoosiers are faster green, as the "company line" is otherwise...

Hoosier's Achilles Heal is longevity; even heat-cycled they're faster than the competition. So, why risk that competitive advantage simply to be faster than yourself...? - GA

[seckerich]

Telemetry shows about .2 G's more grip with first few laps on stickers. They will give up after that and get greasy for a few and come back. Stickers that are raced first heat cycle will never maintain the same level of grip after they cool. I tend to trust the actual data rather than guess. This is on a 2680# Mazda. You might get away with it on lighter cars.

[22BMWPiloti]

Thanks for all the feed back, sounds like the on track break in is still probably the most preferred.

[philstireservice]

If you talk to a Hoosier Engineer about "other companies" heat cycling procedures you get that strange look with a dissatisfied grin.......