NJMP SA2005 helmet rule?

[disquek]

I got a card from EMRA today saying that NJMP will REQUIRE drivers to have an SA2005 helmet per the NJ Motor Vehicle Racetrack Regulations.

So I looked those regulations up:
http://www.nj.gov/njsp/info/pdf/racing_regulations.pdf

It looks like EMRA is right.

This SUCKS. I guess I'm gonna skip NJMP. I'm not paying a $500-$1000 tax just to run there.

What a dumb http://forum.specmiata.com/ubb/graemlins/butthead.gif rule. Your tax dollars at work ...

I was really looking forward to racing there too.

:mad1::mad1::mad1:

Kyle

[wdether]

I got a card from EMRA today saying that NJMP will REQUIRE drivers to have an SA2005 helmet per the NJ Motor Vehicle Racetrack Regulations.

So I looked those regulations up:
http://www.nj.gov/njsp/info/pdf/racing_regulations.pdf

It looks like EMRA is right.

This SUCKS. I guess I'm gonna skip NJMP. I'm not paying a $500-$1000 tax just to run there.

What a dumb http://forum.specmiata.com/ubb/graemlins/butthead.gif rule. Your tax dollars at work ...

I was really looking forward to racing there too.

:mad1::mad1::mad1:

Kyle

Kyle,
What is EMRA's safety rules say about helmets and other safety equipment? I wouldn't panic just yet. SA2000? What exactly does the card say?

[disquek]

These are state laws (remember when the CT State Police would tell you when to run rains at LRP).

I don't think it matters what EMRA, SCCA, SVRA, IMSA, or whoever think.

The track needs a license from the state. The sanctioning body needs a track. And we need a sanctioning body.

We need to write both the track and the NJ State Government to ask for some sense here. If this regulation doesn't change, we will need SA2005 helmets.

Kyle

[dickita15]

You know I remember hearing a while ago when we were having problems with CT DOT at Lime Rock that New Jersey was the only other state that had jurisdiction over racing. Did not think much of it at the time as we were not racing in NJ.
Kyle, don’t panic yet, let the region get into it. I am sure Bill has already alerted the RE.

[disquek]

Thanks Dick!

As always, I really appreciate your help!

-Kyle

[dtanthon]

The Jersey Racing Board ( the JRB ) contacted Snell Memorial Foundation, which anyone can do.

We were informed, and will get an email shortly, that Snell has no expiration date for any of its helmet standards, just recommendations for how often to replace them, which is the most current and the most recent after that (SA2005 and SA2000).

So: "which meets the most recent Snell Memorial Foundation Testing Standards M or SA, incorporated by reference herein, as may be amended and supplemented, which has not reached the expiration date established by the Snell Memorial Foundation at the time of the event"

Means: any Snell M or SA helmet should be fine since they never technically expire.

We have our own SCCA rules that govern the requirements for helmets, see the GCR - 9.3.19. DRIVER’S SAFETY EQUIPMENT.

Hope to see you all at NJMP in 2008! Check www.NJRRS.com (http://www.NJRRS.com)

Also, remember to get your Driving Impressions Pro-IT information into the website. Should be a fun series in 2008!

Thanks,
Darrell Anthony :)
NNJR-RE
JRB member

[erlrich]

So: "which meets the most recent Snell Memorial Foundation Testing Standards M or SA, incorporated by reference herein, as may be amended and supplemented, which has not reached the expiration date established by the Snell Memorial Foundation at the time of the event"


Thanks,
Darrell Anthony :)
NNJR-RE
JRB member

Darrell - not trying to nit pick, but I think the part of the rule that is causing the problem is the "which meets the most recent Snell Memorial Foundation Testing Standards M or SA". The most recent standard is of course SA2005.


I would very interested to hear what the track has to say about this; I was also giving serious consideration to attending one of the events (either EMRA or SCCA) there this year, but will not until I'm certain my SA00 helmet will be allowed.

[disquek]

Good news.

I wrote the track and got a response from Joe Volpe.

He says we'll be allowed to use SA2000 and SA2005 helmets and that the track is working on a clarification page for their website.

How this fits in with the regulation that says:
"which meets the most recent Snell ...", I have no idea. But it's what I wanted to hear, so don't harsh my buzz.

Kyle

[lateapex911]

Good news.

........r, so don't harsh my buzz.

Kyle

....and don't bogart that joint, ...my friend......

(name the band)

[erlrich]

....and don't bogart that joint, ...my friend......

(name the band)
Don't know for a fact, but that sure sounds like something you would expect to hear at a Dead concert :D

Kyle, that's excellent news - have you passed this info along to anyone from EMRA?

[keycom]

....and don't bogart that joint, ...my friend......

(name the band)

Fraternity of Man from the Easy Rider soundtrack.
Covered by Little Feat and the Grateful Dead I believe.

I never inhaled! So I can still remember the sixties!!!:D

[lateapex911]

Ding ding ding...
So, did you google? ;)

Before my time, but yes, it goes back to '69, most people think it's a Little Feat song as it appeared on the '88 album "The last record album", released after the death of Lowell George. The Feat still does it ...saw them perform it two days ago, in fact.
A beer to you if we ever meet! (Find me at the ARRCs or the IT Fest.)

[pgipson]

....and don't bogart that joint, ...my friend......

(name the band)

I think that line is also in a Steppenwolf song something like "don't bogart that joint my friend pass it over to me"

[Bill Miller]

Ding ding ding...
So, did you google? ;)

Before my time, but yes, it goes back to '69, most people think it's a Little Feat song as it appeared on the '88 album "The last record album", released after the death of Lowell George. The Feat still does it ...saw them perform it two days ago, in fact.
A beer to you if we ever meet! (Find me at the ARRCs or the IT Fest.)

Actually, "Last Record Album" was released in 1975, four years before George's death in 1979. I saw one of the last shows that he played w/ Little Feat early in 1979, at Miami U (Ohio). The opening act was Craig Fuller and Eric Kaz, formerly of Pure Prarie League. An interesting aside, Fuller later joined the other members of Little Feat when they reformed and released "Let It Roll" some 10+ years later.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[lateapex911]

Actually, and sorry to belabor the point, but Bill is correct. Sort of. "The Last Record Album" WAS released by the Feat in '75, but it didn't include "Don't Bogart that Joint" at that point...it was a short album of 32 minutes. The band was doing the song live, often segueing into or out of "Willin'" with it though, and it nearly appeared on the seminal live recording "Waiting for Columbus", but didn't make the vynl additions cut. It was added to "The Last record Album" when that album was re-released later, with tracks added to fill it out, and was included in the CD version of "Columbus".

Bill's correct that the "real" release in '88 was "Let it Roll", the first new album for the band since Georges death, and was the beginning of their "second act".

[Bill Miller]

Actually, and sorry to belabor the point, but Bill is correct. Sort of. "The Last Record Album" WAS released by the Feat in '75, but it didn't include "Don't Bogart that Joint" at that point...it was a short album of 32 minutes. The band was doing the song live, often segueing into or out of "Willin'" with it though, and it nearly appeared on the seminal live recording "Waiting for Columbus", but didn't make the vynl additions cut. It was added to "The Last record Album" when that album was re-released later, with tracks added to fill it out, and was included in the CD version of "Columbus".

Bill's correct that the "real" release in '88 was "Let it Roll", the first new album for the band since Georges death, and was the beginning of their "second act".

Don't be so sure about that Jake. The way I read your post, "Don't Bogart..." was never released until 1988. I'll actually have to dig my vinyl copy of Waiting For Columbus out of the attic, but I'm fairly confident that "Don't Bogat..." was on the vinyl version. I also recall that when WFC was finally released on CD, there was a notation that "Don't Bogart..." and "A Apolitical Blues" were left off, due to time constraints.

[Ken Grammer]

I would very interested to hear what the track has to say about this; I was also giving serious consideration to attending one of the events (either EMRA or SCCA) there this year, but will not until I'm certain my SA00 helmet will be allowed.

We met with the NJ State Police earlier this month and as a fellow racer, I can tell you we are working with a really good group of guys. They are fellow motorsports enthusiasts who simply want to ensure we all get to enjoy safe road racing in New Jersey.

We discussed several points in the law, including the helmet rule, at length and verified that SA2000 helmets will indeed be allowed, provided of course that the group you race with allows them.

If you have questions or concerns, I urge you to e-mail us since we will have a very close and active working relationship with the NJSP. We will also be posting some clarifications as soon as we receive feedback to our current list of questions.

Good luck with your racing programs this spring, and we are looking forward to seeing you at NJMP later this summer.

[RacerBill]

How about the seat belt requirement -

"1. SFI 16.1 or SFI 16.5, incorporated herein by reference

and available at http://www.sfi foundation.com, seat
belts shall be valid for two years from the month and year
punched or indicated on the SFI tag. There shall be one
original tag attached to one of the two shoulder belts, one
original tag attached to one of the lap belts, and a third
original tag attached to the crotch belt."


GCR states two years from the last day of the year stamped..... Also, I have belts that have a tag on only the lap belt, not the shoulder harness or the submarine strap.

[Ken Grammer]

Before I make this reply, let me start by saying that I have over a decade with SCCA... have been a die-hard SCCA member. Many people know that I've been at all levels of SCCA, from corner worker, starter, driver, RE, member of many committee/boards, pro racing staffer, moved to Topeka... so I have all of the SCCA scars and I love SCCA.

Having said that, it's hard sometimes for us to remember that other racing organizations exist. But they do, and they are numerous and in many cases, higher profile then SCCA (IMSA, Grand-Am, Champ Car, IRL, FIA, etc.). All of these groups have similar, but slightly different rules in place.

The NJ State Police took most of these rules as input and guidelines for developing their rulesets. So they didn't follow just the SCCA GCR when writing their law.

The also follow manufacturer guidelines and as we all know, defining age dates for things like belts and helmets has been an industry definition problem since first implemented. SCCA had to deal with this same definition issue with regard to the age of seat belts.

So having said all of that, we are working with the State Police to clarify things like this, and I am sure we will be able to get most of these rules clarified. What I can't say is that everyone will agree with the final clarification... since the State Police, and the track as the licensee of the State, have to try to do what is in the best interest of EVERY group visiting the facility.

We will work on getting clarifications in place. Right now people should not be overly concerned, and certainly should not assume anything negative about our State Police representatives. They are good people, excited about road racing and very willing to work with us.

[RacerBill]

I think that line is also in a Steppenwolf song something like "don't bogart that joint my friend pass it over to me"

'roll another one, just like the other one.....'

[billf]

"The NJ State Police took most of these rules as input and guidelines for developing their rulesets. So they didn't follow just the SCCA GCR when writing their law."

Is it tru that the N.J. Police are "writing thieir law"? Most states have a legislature to do that...police enforce the laws as written (we hope).

Is that what you meant? Just wondered.

Good racing.

Bill

[Greg Amy]

It's more likely a "regulation", which bureaucrats are tasked to do...legislatures make laws (i.e., "the state police is going to regulate the safety of auto racing in our state") then toss the application of it to bureaucrats to write the specific regulations (i.e., "you must use SA2000 helmets"). As you no doubt know, the state police have bureaucrats, too...

I'm glad to read that Ken is involved in this project; I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know you were part of NJMP, let alone Managing Director! God news to read, best of luck to you. - GA

[wdether]

It's more likely a "regulation", which bureaucrats are tasked to do...legislatures make laws (i.e., "the state police is going to regulate the safety of auto racing in our state") then toss the application of it to bureaucrats to write the specific regulations (i.e., "you must use SA2000 helmets"). As you no doubt know, the state police have bureaucrats, too...

I'm glad to read that Ken is involved in this project; I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know you were part of NJMP, let alone Managing Director! God news to read, best of luck to you. - GA

Greg is correct, the NJ legislature writes laws and the various state agencies create rules/regulations based on the intent of the laws. I believe all of the state police regulations are written under Title 13 and the racing regulations are written under Title 13, Chapter 62. The NJ State Police Troopers that I ocassionally run into at my day job are good people to work with.

It is good that a racer like Ken is involved with the track.

[Ken Grammer]

Wow... sorry... I was using too much shorthand.

Absolutely... the police enforce... not write... the laws. They do, however, in this case make recommendations.

Sorry for adding to the confusion.

[RacerBill]

How about the seat belt requirement -

"1. SFI 16.1 or SFI 16.5, incorporated herein by reference

and available at http://www.s

fi foundation.com, seat

belts shall be valid for two years from the month and year
punched or indicated on the SFI tag. There shall be one
original tag attached to one of the two shoulder belts, one
original tag attached to one of the lap belts, and a third
original tag attached to the crotch belt."



GCR states two years from the last day of the year stamped..... Also, I have belts that have a tag on only the lap belt, not the shoulder harness or the submarine strap.


I will correct myself. I just purchased new belts and guess what? There are SFI labels on the belts, the shoulder harness, and the sub belt! I guess the more things remain the same, the more they change!!!!!! :)

[Greg Amy]

How about the seat belt requirement...
Remember this duesey...? Check this out:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/532996-speeding-tickets-at-a-racetrack.html

[Ken Grammer]

Wow, Greg! That certainly brings back some memories of some VERY long days (and nights)!

It appears that people still don't fully understand that *all* racing facilities in New Jersey have been licensed and regulated by the state for a VERY long time and that state licensing and regulation of race tracks wasn't some new concept that was created when NJMP was opened.

And just like any other licensed and regulated industry in ANY state, the "private" owners are compelled to comply with the regulations... regardless of whether the rules make sense to the end customers.

I don't miss that part of the job there... :)

[Streetwise guy]

The nanny state strikes again. Life is becoming sadder all the time.