Another tire thread....

[mbuskuhl]

Would anyone agree or disagree with the following? Opinions?

Speed

1. R6
2. V710
3. shaved R888
4. shaved RA1


Longevity

1. shaved RA1
2. shaved R888
3. V710
4. R6

Price - 225/45/15

1. R6 $210
2. V710 $183 - 225/50/15
3. shaved R888 $156
4. shaved RA1 $154


I know there are more DOT R tires but these seem the most common. I left the Z214 off as it's new, so is the R888 but the Z214 supply is non-existent in some sizes, particulaly mine.

[its66]

I'd also like some feedback on the R888's, but I don't know anyone who has tried them. Anyone???

[Greg Amy]

You can stick Hankooks right behind the Hoosier on all three of those. Actually, they're cheaper than Kumhos, IIRC.

[MMiskoe]

Go look on the SM page, there was a post there about the R888's. Better to go read it than trust my leaky memory.

I ran V710's last year on my ITS car and found they would get over heated and fall off dramatically at which point it was all over. This is a combination of heavy car and ham fisted driver. After this happened in either 2 or 3 races the rears chunked very badly. Big pcs of tread rubber simply pulled apart from the carcass exposing areas of the carcass big enough for me to put my thumb. So that was the end of V710's for me. I can accept that I beat on the tire & it overheated & the grip level fell down, but to have it start physically falling apart is unacceptable to me. No other tire has ever done that and I didn't treat these any more badly than others.

Matt

[joeg]

I never can quite get the point of these threads.

Simply put, the Hoosier is the best dry tire...by far.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I never can quite get the point of these threads.

Simply put, the Hoosier is the best dry tire...by far.
Not true.

Goodyear has taken ANOTHER year off from the GSCS/RS (which was the absolute EQUAL to the R6 in my testing) so my supply is gone...now I must change. The RS was only avail in a 205/50/15 so it didn't hit many peoples radar.

And there are people on here who have run both the Hoosier and the Kook and believe they are so close it comes down to price.

The purple tire is awesome, no doubt, but lets keep an open mind.

[its66]

I never can quite get the point of these threads.

Simply put, the Hoosier is the best dry tire...by far.

For many people, it boils down to performance vs dollars. Not every car has $5000 shocks, even though they are better than $300 street koni's(no offense) Not every car has a $4000 ecu. For many people, a tire which is "almost as fast", but cheaper and lasts longer, will allow them to race a few extra weekends a year. If the difference in performance is something they can tolerate, it will let them get more seat time, and improve what is usually the weakest link--the driver...

I like the level of performance afforded by the R6's, but the pricing is getting more than a little expensive. I understand the whole supply/demand thing, and the economies afforded by the large volume of circle track guys, but I am still jealous that a larger circle track tire by the same manufacturer is approximately 25% less expensive than our tires.

That is why you will see threads like this, especially when a new, DOT tire is introduced.

[dj10]

Go look on the SM page, there was a post there about the R888's. Better to go read it than trust my leaky memory.

I ran V710's last year on my ITS car and found they would get over heated and fall off dramatically at which point it was all over. This is a combination of heavy car and ham fisted driver. After this happened in either 2 or 3 races the rears chunked very badly. Big pcs of tread rubber simply pulled apart from the carcass exposing areas of the carcass big enough for me to put my thumb. So that was the end of V710's for me. I can accept that I beat on the tire & it overheated & the grip level fell down, but to have it start physically falling apart is unacceptable to me. No other tire has ever done that and I didn't treat these any more badly than others.

Matt

Matt, I've heard & seen another person with this problem, it, if my memory servers me right it was a camber issue, to much I think. You might want to check with the company for your cars specs.


Not true.

Goodyear has taken ANOTHER year off from the GSCS/RS (which was the absolute EQUAL to the R6 in my testing) so my supply is gone...now I must change. The RS was only avail in a 205/50/15 so it didn't hit many peoples radar.

And there are people on here who have run both the Hoosier and the Kook and believe they are so close it comes down to price.

The purple tire is awesome, no doubt, but lets keep an open mind.

I'll agree with AB here, Goodyear were the best IMO. Damn I miss those tires. I'd love to try the Kook's but they don't make the size I need. Right now it's cheaper to buy the more expensive tires than to buy a extra Diff.

[joeg]

Heck, I miss old BFG(s) and fresh Dirt Stockers for that matter too, but that's life...

Buy Hoosiers.

[Black91n/aRX-7]

GRM did a tire test on a WRX (225/45/17's on 17x8's) at the Ocala Grand Prix track, it's a cart track, so it's relatively short and twisty, it's in the October 2007 issue, http://ocalagranprix.com/trackinfo.php . They tested the R6, the Hankook Z214 C51 compound, the Nitto NT-01 and the BFG R1. The R6 was slowest and got progressively slower as the tires heated, same sort of thing with the Hankooks, but they beat out the Hoosiers by a bit. They did comment that the Hankooks would probably do better on a lighter car, and they did the fastest lap overall (first lap). The shaved NT-01's were actually second fastest and they weren't affected by the heat like the R6 and Z214's were. The R1 won by a small margin.

I'd expect the R888 to be similiar to the NT-01, since they're both under the same parent company and who knows, they may even share the same carcass and/or rubber compound.

[lateapex911]

GRM has done those tests before, and they are interesting. In the past the Hoosier has been a narrow victor, but it is odd how our real life experiences don't match their results.

[gran racing]

For many people, a tire which is "almost as fast", but cheaper and lasts longer, will allow them to race a few extra weekends a year.

There's also another similiar idea here. Does one use a slightly slower tire and buy 4 sets per year or run the same number of events using the faster tire but only afford to buy 3 sets per year. The faster tire will be quicker initially, but overall for the same dollar amount the other tires might make more sense. I think that's where I'm heading this year.

[mbuskuhl]

The whole idea with this thread was to rate tires by: Speed, Longevity and Price. Those I think are the 3 most important issues when buying a tire, at least for most of us. Some only look at speed and ignore cost but the avg. racer doesn't.

If we could come up with a list and rank tires by speed, longevity and price it would give everyone the information they need to know when making a tire purchase. Some may trade speed for longevity and price, also depends on how important the race is.

[lateapex911]

. Some may trade speed for longevity and price, also depends on how important the race is.

But...it's not like you can just bolt on a set of "Super Fast"s from brand X when your car is all set up for "Me love you long Time"s from brand J.....different tires require different setups and different driving styles.

[Sandro]

If the price of gas is going up because the US$ is going down, then wouldn't the Kumho's and foreign made tires also go up in price resulting in the US made Hoosiers being cheaper than foreign made tires? We can dream can't we :026:

[RacerBowie]

But...it's not like you can just bolt on a set of "Super Fast"s from brand X when your car is all set up for "Me love you long Time"s from brand J.....different tires require different setups and different driving styles.

Which probably just answered your earlier thought about why our experiences don't show the same results as the GRM tests.

[erlrich]

Matt, I've heard & seen another person with this problem, it, if my memory servers me right it was a camber issue, to much I think. You might want to check with the company for your cars specs.
Yep, there have been several threads on several boards about the V710 and its issues with coming apart. The camber excuse...er, I mean solution came right from Kumho's Rudy Consolacion, in response to an email from one of our IT.com members IIRC. Essentially they said if you set your camber much closer to the oem settings you won't have a problem. You won't turn nearly as well either, but that whole turning thing is so overrated anyway :D

Oh, and to the original question - I only have experience with the RA1s and V710s, so from my experience they are:

Speed:
1. V710
20. Shaved RA1s

Longevity:
1. RA1s
20. V710s

Earl, who will be racing on Hankooks this year.

[flaboy]

Ok..I've used the toyo ra-1...love the life of them.

I've had 1 set of hoosires..wow so much faster

I didn't have to buy the hoosiers my cousin used my car at the daytona drivers school so he bought me a set to try.

But at 181.00 each!!! thats hard to afford for me.

What do you guys think of the hankook z214...40.00 less and comes in 225-45-13 which is what i need.

[MMiskoe]

Yep, there have been several threads on several boards about the V710 and its issues with coming apart. The camber excuse...er, I mean solution came right from Kumho's Rudy Consolacion, in response to an email from one of our IT.com members IIRC. Essentially they said if you set your camber much closer to the oem settings you won't have a problem. You won't turn nearly as well either, but that whole turning thing is so overrated anyway :D

Yeah I remember all that. I made a polite comment to the vendor telling him ' they fell apart when I don't think they should have. Perhaps the manuf. would like the feed back'. His response was an apology that they didn't work and to say that feedback like that would go on deaf ears, they didn't seem to care. As far as the camber goes, I don't buy it, why would the problem be randomly spaced across the whole tread face if it was a camber issue?

Sorry for the thread high-jack, but I agree w/ others that there is no magic formula. Its like asking a gang of NASCAR fans who the best driver is.

Matt

[dave parker]

Group
Kumho's have traditionally not done well on heavier (there is that whole fat thing again) and higher horsepower cars. I have found that the V710 is a "faster" tire (on a light fwd car) than the V700.
Toyo RA1's are a great all around tire in both full tread and shaved, but not as fast as the Hoosier. "The only difference between a Toyo RA1 and a rock is that you have to get a rock REALLY hot before it will burn". I don't have a lot to say about the Toyo R888 because we are only trying our first set now, on a heavy (the fat thing again) high horsepower rwd car.
Hoosier, fast, no wear or life span (so to speak). The best quote I have ever heard about Hoosiers is" you can get all the heat cycles you want out of them if you never let them cool down".
I cannot speak about Hankook race tires because they do not make any in the sizes that the cars that I work with use.
What do you want? Long life, good wear, longevity, and fast lap times?
Pick the best tire for your car, budget and purpose then go forward.
cheers
Dave Parker
WDCR HP#97
2007 MARRS HP Champion

[dj10]

I'd like to get some of your opinions:
If Hoosier's are heat cycled properly does anyone disagree they should last a 3 hr enduro? This is also assuming the car is setup properly.

[iambhooper]

I have run both the shaved Toyo RA1 and the Kumho 710 on my Honda. I have nothing but good words to say about the 710. I have gotten great life out of them, granted, I have been buying 2 tires every 3rd weekend. This allows me to run fresh tires o the front 2 weekends and rotate them to the back for a third... maybe not the best solution, but works on a FWD ITC ride.

Perhaps the one thing that hasn't been mentioned, is Kumho has perhaps the best contengency payout. That really helps out!

hoop

p.s.

toyos for long life or spec rules

[jlinfert]

Group
Hoosier, fast, no wear or life span (so to speak). The best quote I have ever heard about Hoosiers is" you can get all the heat cycles you want out of them if you never let them cool down".
Dave Parker
WDCR HP#97
2007 MARRS HP Champion
On a light (under 2200lb) car Hoosier R6's last FOREVER and are nearly as fast at the end of their life as new. I know a lot of people would argue this but on a 2100lb ITC Scirroco running 35 psi hot -1.5deg camber and .01 deg toe in we have only bought 8 tires in 18 months and have run 3 driver schools, 7 regional weekends and an enduro. 7 of the 8 tires are still good and the car broke the Sebring Long Course record by 4.5 seconds in it's last race. Seems to me the R6 is a pretty long lasting tire.

[JLawton]

I'd like to get some of your opinions:
If Hoosier's are heat cycled properly does anyone disagree they should last a 3 hr enduro? This is also assuming the car is setup properly.


Dan, You should have no problem lasting 3 hours with them. Remember, it's just one, looooong heat cycle. I'm trying to remember back to my enduro days with Kirk and i think we got at least 6 hours out of them?? Maybe Kirk or Phil can confirm.

[dominojd]

What do you guys think of the hankook z214...40.00 less.

They are wonderful. Did realy well on them last year and the contingency is great.

[Knestis]

When I got back in the game, I picked Toyos for economy. When we shifted to Hoosiers, I was pretty pleased with the mileage we got out of them and my thinking re: economy changed a little.

With the old fuel tank, we double-stinted Hoosiers on the fronts on the Golf (like 3+ hours). With the big cell, I think standard practice has become to change them at each stop (again, like 3+ hrs), so we don't have any surprises. We run the rears for 6 hours or more.

KK