Open ECU Rule

[Tkczecheredflag]

Anyone offering thoughts conerning the new ECU rule change? 95 LS TEG - OBD I - Thoughts?

[Greg Amy]

We're going through the same thought process on the GS-R, Tim. The car currently runs the factory ECU with a socketed chip, and Jeremy has been using a Moates burner and software to tune it.

However, we're going to need a real-time solution, so that we can make changes on the fly, especially on the dyno. That means we either add a ROMulator, such as "Ostrich", which emulates the ROM info so we can dynamically change it; or we go to an existing real-time solution such as the HonData S300.

You could always develop/buy a standalone solution. AEM (http://www.aempower.com/) already offers a Plug n' Play EMS system, but be prepared to bend over. I have given casual thought to assisting DIYAutoTune in Georgia (http://www.diyautotune.com/) in developing a PnP MegaSquirt system. Speaking of bending over, of course there's MoTec...

Honestly, though, I'm fairly convinced that I.T. cars work perfectly fine with either modified stock ECUs (e.g., HonData) or simple aftermarket systems (e.g., MegaSquirt). We don't need all the features that most of the high-end systems offer, and frankly very few of us are capable - or even motivated enough - to use those features.

We're going to likely start with the Ostrich ROMulator addition to the chipped factory ECU, or *maybe* go with the HonData S300. At the same time I'm going to investigate the idea of a MegaDquirt system with Jerry at DIY.

Unless someone else is writing the checks, there's just no way I'll bother with AEM or MoTec.

GA

[Tkczecheredflag]

I was thinking the HonData route. I was just wondering what others were thinking.

Next stop after "freshening my face", the dyno.

FYI - I picked up a "clone" TEG on e-Bay yesterday. What do the rules say about updating/backdating body parts? I know there were subtle changes to the newer TEGs.

[Greg Amy]

What do the rules say about updating/backdating body parts?[/b]
Same spec line? knock yourself out.

If you would be willing to part with a '98 nose in exchange for a spare '95, I'm interested. I'd like to consider using an airdam that Carpenter has for sale, but it only fits '98s. - GA

[Jeremy Billiel]

We're going through the same thought process on the GS-R, Tim. The car currently runs the factory ECU with a socketed chip, and Jeremy has been using a Moates burner and software to tune it.

However, we're going to need a real-time solution, so that we can make changes on the fly, especially on the dyno. That means we either add a ROMulator, such as "Ostrich", which emulates the ROM info so we can dynamically change it; or we go to an existing real-time solution such as the HonData S300.

You could always develop/buy a standalone solution. AEM (http://www.aempower.com/) already offers a Plug n' Play EMS system, but be prepared to bend over. I have given casual thought to assisting DIYAutoTune in Georgia (http://www.diyautotune.com/) in developing a PnP MegaSquirt system. Speaking of bending over, of course there's MoTec...

Honestly, though, I'm fairly convinced that I.T. cars work perfectly fine with either modified stock ECUs (e.g., HonData) or simple aftermarket systems (e.g., MegaSquirt). We don't need all the features that most of the high-end systems offer, and frankly very few of us are capable - or even motivated enough - to use those features.

We're going to likely start with the Ostrich ROMulator addition to the chipped factory ECU, or *maybe* go with the HonData S300. At the same time I'm going to investigate the idea of a MegaDquirt system with Jerry at DIY.

Unless someone else is writing the checks, there's just no way I'll bother with AEM or MoTec.

GA
[/b]

Greg - there is no benefit to going to MegaSquirt. The Hondata or Crome has everything that you need to tune with and more. Don't waste your time. The honda market has already been defined and has a ton of options, many are free!

Tim - I can explain Honda ECU's in much more detail if you would like just give me a ring.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Tim,

Are you telling us that your car has no ECU tuning? Serra MUST have tweaked on that thing with HonData...if not, we are all in BIG trouble!!!!!!!!

:eclipsee_steering:

[Tkczecheredflag]

Tim,

Are you telling us that your car has no ECU tuning? Serra MUST have tweaked on that thing with HonData...if not, we are all in BIG trouble!!!!!!!!

:eclipsee_steering:
[/b]
Andy - I think what I am really saying is that this country is ready for a women President. :D

I think it's safe to say that I haven't tuned our ECU to the same degree as our current infamous NARRC Champion. ;) I just felt it was time to check in with my Honda product brothers and sisters, and find out what they might be thinking. Safe to say I have a ways to go to catch up with you, your level of tuning and the rule change - that's all - you set a new standard for us to follow. Thought it was time to check in - keeping in mind you are way quicker than I am - at least that what my time sheets are telling me - I think it's time for me to get going and not continue to be complacent. BIG trouble - I don't think so.

You gotta realize it's not unlike me to wait until April 12th before we start to get ready and have been know to not start racing until August. This is new ground for me - very exciting.

[Greg Amy]

Don't waste your time. The honda market has already been defined...[/b]
OK, so what my illustrious teammate is telling me that it's "all figured out" and there's nothing left to learn. That "if I only had a brain" I'd simply look around, see what others have done, and copy that.

"Kakashi" Racing, indeed...

;)

http://www.kakashiracing.com/team.html

[Jeremy Billiel]

OK, so what my illustrious teammate is telling me that it's "all figured out" and there's nothing left to learn. That "if I only had a brain" I'd simply look around, see what others have done, and copy that.

"Kakashi" Racing, indeed...

;)

http://www.kakashiracing.com/team.html
[/b]

I sooo knew that was coming!

[lateapex911]

I sooo knew that was coming!
[/b]

me too!

Saw it a mile away!

[gran racing]

Jeremy, maybe I can enlist your expertise with my ECU too? I imagine that I'd have to change it from OBD0 to OBD1 first? Unfortunately that's not a quick and easy change.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Jeremy, maybe I can enlist your expertise with my ECU too? I imagine that I'd have to change it from OBD0 to OBD1 first? Unfortunately that's not a quick and easy change.
[/b]

No it is not.... I don't think it will be worth your time and it would be illegal to change your distributor, etc

[JLawton]

keeping in mind you are way quicker than I am - at least that what my time sheets are telling me -


[/b]

WOW, was that a shot about his skills?? <insert gas on fire icon> Timmy talkin&#39; trash, I like it!! :023:







OK, so what my illustrious teammate is telling me that it&#39;s "all figured out" and there&#39;s nothing left to learn. That "if I only had a brain" I&#39;d simply look around, see what others have done, and copy that.

"Kakashi" Racing, indeed...

;)

http://www.kakashiracing.com/team.html
[/b]

Must.....refrain......from......busting......on .........Jeremy..........

[lateapex911]

It&#39;s - soooooo - hard -to - resist....

Just give up. You might feel a bit cheap, but jeeez, it&#39;s not like he doesn&#39;t ask...no, beg for it, is it?

[Jeremy Billiel]

You are reading way to far into this comment. I am simply saying that the Honda is not a one-off Nissan with no aftermarket support. The ECU&#39;s for Honda&#39;s have been cracked for years with limitless options ranging from free to very expensive. My current configuration is the best of all the worlds with a real time emulator or Hondata (One in the same) just different free software used.

What changes to make to the fuel maps, timing, etc is where the money is. IMO there is no value in going with a custom MegaQuirt with no obvious advantage over what I already have. I will be happy to be proved wrong, but I very highly doubt it...

I realize that I have now motivated Greg to prove me wrong which is a bad thing! LOL :P :P

Oh and I have read 16 books on ECU tuning as well!!!! So back off

HAHAHAHAHHAAAAA

[Doc Bro]

Here we go. Letting Tim lead a conversation about his plans, and level of development. The Mark Twain (or is it Samuel Clemens) of the New England racing scene.

Let&#39;s see Tim....

Is that ECU going in the "For Sale" Teg or the Mitsubishi Eclipse....or maybe it&#39;s the Micro Sprint to really kick the local dirt guys butts......


Inquiring minds want to know.....


R

It just dawned on me it&#39;s for the toter.....

[lateapex911]

Hey, in Tim&#39;s trade, not getting too attached to any decision is a good thing, as clients change their mind 5 times a day on the color of the paint they want on their kitchen walls!

[Tkczecheredflag]

WOW, was that a shot about his skills?? <insert gas on fire icon> Timmy talkin&#39; trash, I like it!! :023:
Must.....refrain......from......busting......on .........Jeremy..........
[/b]
You know I hold Andy&#39;s driving abilities in the highest regard - The comment was totally targeted at his committment to developemnt, which I also admire - Don&#39;t start trouble Jeff :o The only trash talk I can offer on driving skills might be my own - Does anyone have an extra set of "manhood" for me?



Here we go. Letting Tim lead a conversation about his plans, and level of development. The Mark Twain (or is it Samuel Clemens) of the New England racing scene.

Let&#39;s see Tim....

Is that ECU going in the "For Sale" Teg or the Mitsubishi Eclipse....or maybe it&#39;s the Micro Sprint to really kick the local dirt guys butts......
Inquiring minds want to know.....
R

It just dawned on me it&#39;s for the toter.....
[/b]

Doc - The bright penny. - You da man my broher! Stay tuned to the classifieds though (no kidding here) for some used TEG equipment that will be posted soon. I referrenced "freshening my face" but it&#39;s starting to look like a "facelift."



Hey, in Tim&#39;s trade, not getting too attached to any decision is a good thing, as clients change their mind 5 times a day on the color of the paint they want on their kitchen walls!
[/b]
Thanks for watching my back Jake. As far as client changing their mind on color, I defer to CPM&#39;s Carol Miller - That&#39;s one girl that can work a fandeck - Carol?

Jeremy - Who let all these other kids in our sand box. I will touch base with you this week - PM me you phone number.

[cpm motorsports]

You know I hold Andy&#39;s driving abilities in the highest regard - The comment was totally targeted at his committment to developemnt, which I also admire - Don&#39;t start trouble Jeff :o The only trash talk I can offer on driving skills might be my own - Does anyone have an extra set of "manhood" for me?
Doc - The bright penny. - You da man my broher! Stay tuned to the classifieds though (no kidding here) for some used TEG equipment that will be posted soon. I referrenced "freshening my face" but it&#39;s starting to look like a "facelift."
Thanks for watching my back Jake. As far as client changing their mind on color, I defer to CPM&#39;s Carol Miller - That&#39;s one girl that can work a fandeck - Carol?

Jeremy - Who let all these other kids in our sand box. I will touch base with you this week - PM me you phone number.
[/b]

Love that fandeck!
But it is a woman&#39;s perogative to change her mind...

Shall I tell how many color samples I requested in order to paint my kitchen &#39;integra red&#39; ? B)

[Xian]

Jeremy, maybe I can enlist your expertise with my ECU too? I imagine that I&#39;d have to change it from OBD0 to OBD1 first? Unfortunately that&#39;s not a quick and easy change.
[/b]
I think TurboEdit is supposed to be pretty decent for OBD0 ECU&#39;s although I&#39;m not sure what non-Civic engine applications are available...

Christian

[Tkczecheredflag]

Same spec line? knock yourself out.

If you would be willing to part with a &#39;98 nose in exchange for a spare &#39;95, I&#39;m interested. I&#39;d like to consider using an airdam that Carpenter has for sale, but it only fits &#39;98s. - GA
[/b]
See I wasn&#39;t clear if that&#39;s okay. Your interpretation of the rules is that you could use the &#39;98 cover?

The TEG I grabbed was a rust free &#39;94 with an engine cooked "well done", still a good core

I have a air dam I will be trying that I grabbed from Tom K - I will see how it mates up - If it&#39;s good we can mold it assuming Tom hasn&#39;t already.

[Greg Amy]

Your interpretation of the rules is that you could use the &#39;98 cover?[/b]
Yup, same spec line, you can swap noses. Frankly, from a realistic standpoint, nobody will probably notice anyway.

If it&#39;s good we can mold it assuming Tom hasn&#39;t already.[/b]
Good, please let me know.

[Zephyr]

I think TurboEdit is supposed to be pretty decent for OBD0 ECU&#39;s although I&#39;m not sure what non-Civic engine applications are available...

Christian
[/b]

TurboEdit works great however it works on OBD0. Dave&#39;s car as well as mine are running pre OBD0 ECU&#39;s and the distributor is vacuum advance so we have no timing control. When I run my car in Honda Challenge I run an adapter that allows me to run a distributo and ECU from a 91 Si but that is not legal in my understanding of the rules for IT. It would be cool if we could do that but we can&#39;t.

Z

[Jeremy Billiel]

TurboEdit works great however it works on OBD0. Dave&#39;s car as well as mine are running pre OBD0 ECU&#39;s and the distributor is vacuum advance so we have no timing control. When I run my car in Honda Challenge I run an adapter that allows me to run a distributo and ECU from a 91 Si but that is not legal in my understanding of the rules for IT. It would be cool if we could do that but we can&#39;t.

Z
[/b]

That&#39;s correct

[Tkczecheredflag]

Looking at ITCS page 331, D-1-a-6 and 7 - Says "the sky is the limit" for ECU mods. Yet Page 334, D-1-s says all mods must be inside the original ECU housing. Is this a "pick the one that works for you" rule or is there a mistake? Seems odd and conflicting to me. I&#39;ve been chatting with folks off line and scratching our heads. Maybe someone has figured out how to get a Measquirt system inside my little ole TEG box. Enlighten me please. :(

I tried to cut and paste the ITCS sections referrenced but was not able to alter the PDF file. If someone could post these two sections - that would be great help in understanding the new ECU rules.

[JoshS]

Looking at ITCS page 331, D-1-a-6 and 7 - Says "the sky is the limit" for ECU mods. Yet Page 334, D-1-s says all mods must be inside the original ECU housing.
[/b]
When the rules went into the GCR the old wording wasn&#39;t cleaned up in the D-1-s section. That one will disappear in some upcoming Fastrack as a correction.

[Tkczecheredflag]

When the rules went into the GCR the old wording wasn&#39;t cleaned up in the D-1-s section. That one will disappear in some upcoming Fastrack as a correction.
[/b]
Thanks Josh - very helpul. Are we sure about the printed word in Fastrack coming sooner than later?

[jlucas]

If you would be willing to part with a &#39;98 nose in exchange for a spare &#39;95,
[/b]

Be aware that not all 4 round Integra headlight assemblies are the same. I forget what year was the switch but I thought it was with the bumper change. You can tell if you look closely at the a front end picture of the lights.

[bamfp]

When going to the newer bumper you will also need the headlights. They are different.

And go with Hondata.

Blake Meredith

[bonespec]

Hondata might wanna sue you.

If your looking into the OBD-1 open ECU&#39;s, take a look at www.pgmfi.org and the many options.