MKIII Golf 2.0 for an ITB Car?

[BlackVR6]

I've been autocrossing for years now in a 99 MKIII VR6 and am looking to get into road racing in ITB class. Given how comfortable I am with the MKIII's I thought a 2.0 GTi might be a good place to start for this class. While the MKIII is heavier is has a much more modern electrical system and suspension and thought the 2.0 might offset the weight difference. I'm looking for some advice and some roll cage schematics to get started.
Thanks for your help
Newbie---

[Knestis]

Ask and ye shall receive. :)

http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti/

Any answers you need that aren't there, just ask...

Kirk

[Scirocco#28]

Ask and ye shall receive. :)

http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti/

Any answers you need that aren't there, just ask...

Kirk
[/b]


Here's a question for ya. Where are all the 94 GTI's hiding out??? I'm having a hell of a time tracking one down!!

If anybody knows where a good example (95 Golf sport as well), I am definitly interested.

[BlackVR6]

Thanks guys. Assuming that is what it takes to make a competitive car it doesn't seem to bad at all. I have the car line up with a bad tranny for $500.

Already have a Bilstein PSS9 system that may come off my VR6 for the racer
Found the ground crontrl camber plates for $350
Think I can pick up the shine rear bar for $200
Wheels are easy and there seem to be a variety of tire choices
Race seat won't be too bad 300-600
The cage will probably be the most important / expensive item

Two question marks are does everyone run a firesystem and fuel cells?

[itracer]

Two question marks are does everyone run a firesystem and fuel cells?
[/b]

Most VW's use the stock tank. It is in a good place and the cell usually has to be mounted further back.

I don't have a fire system -- Just a fire bottle. But I do have it on my list.

[Knestis]

2-door MkIII Golfs are hard to find unless you are in the NE/PA/IL area, seems like. And THEN you really need to check for rust, particularly in the floors behind the front seats. I don't know why but they are really prone to rot there. I don't know how many '94s were built but I think maybe the first couple of years of MkIII production were slow, as I recall...?

I think that if I were doing it again, I'd go with a 4-door simply because chassis are more available (less likely to have to start with a crunchy one) and doors are a dime a dozen for repair purposes. We've got a lot of Bondo in ours (and in the rear quarters) by now.

For sprint racing, I'd be very comfortable with the stock tank. I think that's one of those places we can easily make our cars LESS safe by ignoring what a bunch of professional engineers decided was a good idea.

Where are you located, STBITBG? Someone here will likely be able to point you at a good cage builder.

K

[Bill Miller]

You will probably have better luck finding early Jettas than you will early 2-dr Golfs. Speaking of which, does anybody know of anyone that's racing a Mk III Jetta in ITB? Some feel that the Jetta offers a better balance than the Golf. Spec weights for both are 2350#. I do not know if the Jettas have the same floor pan rust issues as the Golfs.

[Scirocco#28]

Tell me about it! The rust up here on the MK3's is terrible. I used to work at an independant VW shop and at the time we thought it was just the first couple years, but the more we saw of later years, it was the same problem. Definilty not a highlight in VW engineering history. There are next to no good examples up here anymore.

I've contemplated going the Jetta route. Way easier to find a chassis and spare body panels. My problem is I really want to put together a killer car and I don't think I can legally, or realistically, expect the Jetta to make it to min weight. Might be hard with the Golf as well, but i've got a much better shot at it. I'm still in the planning phases though, and if I can't find a good enough GTI, then most likely I will go Jetta.

[msogren]

The Mk 2 jett carries about 25-30# less LF weight, at the same total. And the Cg is lower, farther to the rear. Pick up the rear hatch and you'll see why.
They can keep the rear tire lower in the air.
FWIW We built a Jett roundy car for the same reasons you suggest, more rear weight, easy body repair, better aero wise, smaller door opening(harder to get a car in there).
You need to get down to weight,I dont know what the lower limit is onthe MK 3
The MK 2 Jet, we have, weighs about 1920 without balast. But it is apples to Oranges , as my priorities were to get weight off of the nose. Lose the FI, PS, etc.
Did any MK 3 come without Power steering?? I have never seen one.
Good luck, Mike Ogren

[Knestis]

Every US MkIII Golf came with PS and, while it might be possible, it's going to be hard to get down to the minimum even with a 2-door Golf.

There's a guy in Florida running a Jetta, I think but I had more than a few questions about some of the "preparation" he'd done on the car, based on his descriptions.

A Jetta - at the same weight - will have a higher polar moment of inertia than a Golf. It will more reluctant to start rotating (yawing moment) and more enthusiastic about continuing to rotate, once it starts. This is generally felt by drivers as "stability." When people say that MR2s are scary to drive in the rain because they spin quickly, it's the opposite of what I'm talking about - low polar moment = waits longer before coming unhooked, requires quicker hands to catch...

I would indeed be unsurprised to find out that the Jetta was better in aero terms. Those little doors probably make the chassis more inherently stiff (old skool rally thinking), and besides - you get the bonus of that BTCC look that the chicks dig. :)

K

[rabbidmk1]

Ive got a rust free 1995 4 door golf without a sunroof that I am selling for $2000.00 if you are interested.

[John McFarland]

I also have a 95 4-door available. In NE Ohio. Cheap!

Has sunroof but that's what they make sheet metal for!

[RacerBowie]

If we're going down that road, I have a '97 2 door 2.0 GTI I would let go for $2500. No rust, the wife drove it to school today. Only thing that doesn't work on it is the A/C.

[lateapex911]

Married a young 'un, eh Bowie?
;)

kidding, kidding!

[RacerBowie]

Married a young 'un, eh Bowie?
;)

kidding, kidding!
[/b]

HA! More like Married a "back to school" 'un. Yay tuition!

[JamesB]

As long as the wife isnt a professional student you'll be ok.

[lateapex911]

You were supposed to amrry a teacher! Think: Van Halens "Hot for Teacher" video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5t5GukrWOU

I know it's old, but it is rather infamous...mmm...white tank tops...mmm...

[Greg Amy]

I know it's old, but it is rather infamous...mmm...white tank tops...mmm...[/b]
...mmmm...Janet Jones....mmmm......

[lateapex911]

jeeez..you know here NAME!?!!?

I'm suddenly worried, LOL.

[gran racing]

Jake buddy, what's happened to your spelling lately? You used to be so good at it.

[Andy Bettencourt]

jeeez..you know here NAME!?!!?

I'm suddenly worried, LOL.
[/b]

She did marry a GREAT ONE.

[lateapex911]

yea, i'm a mess! It's my new keyboard ....oh..nevermind!

(I always look at the keyboard when I see a mis-spelling, often the extra or wrong letter is a finger slip.)

That said, I am afraid my alzheimers is affecting my spelling...so young, too. :(

[Strider]

Chics dig BTCC?? where are these chics? HEH. Knestis thanks for posting up your build. Nice to see it in process. Mine feels like its going to take forever....

[rabbidmk1]

I want to see these BTCC groupies too!