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lateapex911
12-27-2007, 12:40 AM
And if possible, tell him the class.

Greg Amy
12-27-2007, 12:41 AM
Team Kakashi is gonna chew on some ITA *and* ITS butt this year...

lateapex911
12-27-2007, 12:41 AM
Jeeez! That was a fast response for the guy whos going to rent! IT7 for me.

Andy Bettencourt
12-27-2007, 01:08 AM
Bettencourt ITA
Leverone SM
Harding ITS
Ulfelder ITS
Punderson SSM
McHaffie SM
Bagnall ITS

R2 Racing
12-27-2007, 01:12 AM
We'll have at least:
Kevin Ruck - ITA
Ian Green - ITA
Brian Ehmer - ITS

Pending on what happens with the VIN rule and/or if we get some rental drivers, we could add one or two more.

924Guy
12-27-2007, 10:48 AM
It's on my schedule!

tom91ita
12-27-2007, 10:56 AM
ITB

and voted

absolutely unless i wreck the car

edit

Racerlinn
12-27-2007, 12:46 PM
ITA backmarker on the way.

Rabbit07
12-27-2007, 02:55 PM
I am so there!

It will likely be my first Greatlakes Div race of the season!

I know that Fandozzi is also planning on bringing his Neon out.

RacerBill
12-27-2007, 03:51 PM
We will be there!!!!!! :eclipsee_steering:

Shelby in ITA errrrrrr ITB :OLA:

Knestis
12-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Kirk and Pablo will be there, taking the ITB race to Scott Giles' new Honda. Hope we're up for it.

If the Golf is 2 seconds off the pace with me driving, is that proof that it's too light?

K

mustanghammer
12-27-2007, 04:28 PM
IT7 if work and budget allow - it is on my calendar now

tom91ita
12-27-2007, 04:28 PM
Kirk,

if you don't mind being another second off the pace, you can race with me in my black CRX. then we can return ITB to its roots of black and blue racing.

tom, who is hoping some of the local ITB hot shoes / recordholders race this year.

gran racing
12-27-2007, 04:41 PM
Planning on bringing my ITB Prelude to the event along with some extra fuel injector 0-rings. :( Hopefully this year I'll be able to figure out turn one.

itracer
12-27-2007, 05:13 PM
Planning on bringing my ITB Prelude to the event along with some extra fuel injector 0-rings.[/b]

Don't foget the extra rear wheels too :P

dj10
12-27-2007, 05:21 PM
If the economy ever picks up here and we get work, I'll go. ITR

RSTPerformance
12-27-2007, 06:35 PM
My dad is planning on it with his ITS car, and for my brother and I it will be mostly up to the finances. For me it will also depend on class groupings and/or split starts.

Raymond

TAC
12-27-2007, 06:41 PM
Thanks guys :D Lets keep this poll at the top of the topic page so it won't get lost in the shuffle. Right now from the other info I've gathered the preference voiced is to keep things at :


5 race groups. Does it matter if the race group is Formula cars?

Scuttle the thoughts on AS? Or leave it as a backup in case TCC doesn't pan out?

Hardship session Sunday morning?

As far as the Race weekend.



Over 2 hours of time is good.
---------------------------Saturday 30 minutes qualifying ?
-------------------------- Afternoon races of 22 laps = 52. 8 miles? ( 25 laps = 60 miles)
-------------------------- Sunday morning sprint race ( keep at 17 laps) or shorten it to 15?

Format is staying the same no matter what.

Let me know.

Todd

xr4racer
12-27-2007, 06:42 PM
I would imagine all of the Margarita Motorsports ITS cars will be there. 6 RX-7's (Miller, Mast, Wise, Harding, Milarcik, Martz), 4 Datsuns (Carson, Woeppler, Walton, Walton). Mike OLivier will be there in his ITA Civic EX. Maybe even a T2 350 Z in ITE of course.

matt

Jeremy Billiel
12-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Team Kakashi is gonna chew on some ITA *and* ITS butt this year...
[/b]

ITE for me!

RSTPerformance
12-27-2007, 06:56 PM
Format is staying the same no matter what.

Let me know.

Todd
[/b]


Todd-

Is that in reference to split starts?

Raymond

ajn
12-27-2007, 09:28 PM
ITA for me.

Thanks, Todd for all your hardwork!! Can't wait!

AJ

TimM ITB
12-27-2007, 09:51 PM
Count me in - ITB!

But I agree with Raymond B. on a SHORT hardship session on Sunday morning just to make sure that if there were issues on Saturday - they won't be there in a racing context on Sunday. I had a wheel bearing failure on Saturday afternoon, and the only way that I could "check" it was to drive around in the paddock after replacing it and repairing other associated stuff..............not a real comforting feeling going out there Sunday morning!

Looking forward to another great event!

Tim M

TAC
12-27-2007, 10:16 PM
Todd-

Is that in reference to split starts?

Raymond
[/b]


No, in reference to the Three race format w/ individual medals and Overall weekend trophies.

Todd

Grumpa
12-27-2007, 10:35 PM
My C Rabbit will be there this year, being tweaked now. IT Spectacular, July ORP RR, and one, maybe two, track days at Putnam Park are the only events I plan on running at this point. FWIW, Todd, give the IT community the opportunity to support the '08 event before adding other groups. As expressed before, the opportunity to race other IT racers from around the country makes this event too good to pass up.

TAC
12-28-2007, 12:00 AM
QUOTE(Racerlinn @ Dec 27 2007, 10:36 PM) *




Todd, smack those SM guys around too, they should be overfilling that race group! :D



I don't think its going to be a problem. :eclipsee_steering:

jbaruth
12-28-2007, 12:02 AM
As long as we have a car which hasn't burned to the ground, ITA for me!

downingracing
12-28-2007, 08:33 AM
I'll be there in ITA (mid-packing my way to a great weekend!). Hopefully we have the other ITA Civic done by then and that will mean both Downing brothers will be throwing down for top (mid-pack) honors! (Or my brother will kick my @$$ and I'll be forced to drink my sorrows away on Sat. night - oh wait... I do that anyway!!!)

Hopefully we can have an after party-party Sat. night and NOT get shut down. (*screaming voice* "I'll call the Sheriff and have you removed from the facility - I will...") :)

dominojd
12-28-2007, 09:20 AM
Crazy Friggin Joe will be there in the ITA Sentra.

Todd stop by we'll have the Yeungling and this time you won't be working a corner. :)

924Guy
12-28-2007, 10:39 AM
Kirk and Pablo will be there, taking the ITB race to Scott Giles' new Honda. Hope we're up for it.

If the Golf is 2 seconds off the pace with me driving, is that proof that it's too light?

K
[/b]




Planning on bringing my ITB Prelude to the event along with some extra fuel injector 0-rings. :( Hopefully this year I'll be able to figure out turn one.
[/b]

Oh yeah, me and my crew are looking forward to a rematch!!! :eclipsee_steering: :OLA:

gran racing
12-28-2007, 10:44 AM
Me too Vaughan. Based on last year, it should be a close and very fun race.

Yeah Jason, I'll bring a spare set of rear rotors too.

dickita15
12-28-2007, 10:47 AM
Had a great time last year. Plan on being back probably with two cars.

gran racing
12-28-2007, 10:59 AM
Shall we expect to see a two car bubble? :lol:

lateapex911
12-28-2007, 12:13 PM
Shall we expect to see a two car bubble? :lol: [/b]

No doubt! Gotta keep the Papa Smurf mobile dry and toasty!

shwah
12-28-2007, 03:11 PM
We plan to be there in ITB, even if it means backing off of our CenDiv schedule to make it fit.

Gregg
12-28-2007, 03:20 PM
I have just sent something to all of my MARRS ITA drivers and hope to hear back from at least a few more than those who have posted here (or taken the poll) already. I'll post what I get back in the next few days.

BTW--I'll be there unless I wreck the car. Some say that guarantees I'll never show. :smilie_pokal:

JamesB
12-28-2007, 04:25 PM
Gregg, that was my thought, but you did good keeping your new car on the pavement, so maybe you will make it.

I am going to try and shoehorn it into the budget and time off for this year. Work really burnt me out over the 2007 season and I have not even touched my car since I parked it the last weekend of september.

dickita15
12-28-2007, 04:45 PM
Shall we expect to see a two car bubble? :lol:
[/b]

If that is what the sponsor wants. :P

www.carcoon.com

shmeek
12-28-2007, 05:45 PM
Will attempt to be there based on budget, and if a Midwestern Council Competition License is accepted. ITC for me.

erlrich
12-28-2007, 06:11 PM
Slim chance I'll make it this year, but I hope the event will prosper and I can add it to my '09 schedule. Aside from budget issues, I just can't justify putting the time and $$$ into an event like this unless I feel like I have a shot at being reasonably competitive. Same with the ARRC. I'm not quite there yet, but still going in the right direction.

Catch22
12-28-2007, 09:04 PM
Kirk and Pablo will be there, taking the ITB race to Scott Giles' new Honda. [/b]

Heh.
"Guess who's coming to dinner?"

If all these folks show up it'll be one helluva ITB weekend. I'm trying to get some of those Accord guys to come up from Georgia and Florida too.

Scott Nutter
12-28-2007, 09:23 PM
Too much fun last year to not put on the schedule for next year!

I'll be there, it's on my schedule, no way I'd miss it...but I am no longer 5 so reality has the possibility of getting in the way:(

IT7 of course!

Eagle7
12-28-2007, 10:10 PM
I am so there!

It will likely be my first Greatlakes Div race of the season![/b]

You skippin' Grattan again? :018: Only one event there this year.

I'll be at the IT-Spec in ITS. Got to figure out how to stay on the lead lap. :D

TAC
12-29-2007, 01:29 PM
So If I'm counting those planning on attending so far its:

ITA.....15
ITB.....12
ITC.....2
IT7.....4
ITS....16
ITE.....1
ITR.....1
SM......2 + 10 on the SM forum
SSM....1 + 2 on the SM forum


I'm speechless. Thanks guys. :P

lateapex911
12-29-2007, 02:32 PM
Right...and we're not even in the same year, yet!

VERY rare to see such commitment so far out. you'll get numbers...good numbers.

Build, and they will come. Oh, they'll come, you can count on that.......

Catch22
12-29-2007, 05:01 PM
I haven't talked to anyone yet that doesn't feel that this event has the potential to be bigger and more important than the ARRC.

The track is awesome.
The 2007 race management was awesome.
The 3 race format is awesome.

This thing is going to grow like a chia pet. Just hang in there and give it time.
If you guys can secure some nice contingency awards it'll get even bigger and more prestigious.

Has anyone contacted Hoosier to see if they'll throw down the same program they do for the ARRC? I'd think they would.
If you guys need help trying to get some stuff set up, give me a pm. After all, I am a Cincy Region member now.

dickita15
12-29-2007, 05:13 PM
Okay then what is the maximum number of cars on track and what will be the oversubscription policy. :D

gran racing
12-29-2007, 06:49 PM
Jake or Andy, would either of you be willing to contact GRM to see if they'd cover this event?

Todd, last year you mentioned that a few sponsors were being worked on. Any chance of getting them on board for this year?

During your meeting, can you discuss what will be done at impound? I'd like to see more items checked especially if this is being billed as a big event for IT / Spec classes.

JLawton
12-29-2007, 06:53 PM
I'm in too!! I just thought it was assumed. ;)



Of course, that all depends on Crazy Joe not taking me out in the PDX. :blink:

Jeremy Billiel
12-29-2007, 07:03 PM
I'm in too!! I just thought it was assumed. ;)
Of course, that all depends on Crazy Joe not taking me out in the PDX. :blink:
[/b]

I thought it was the other way around? LOL :P

TAC
12-29-2007, 08:37 PM
Dick,

Max. cars on track is 60. Last year we held the option of either a waiting list, shift classes to another group or expand to a 6th group. We figured we would cross the bridge when we got to it.

Dave,

We have been knocking on doors and sending out e-mails to potential sponsors for the last month with little success. We have some local sponsors but a major sponsor would be a plus.

Tech depends on manpower. I hope we will have an easier time finding volunteers since there are less events the same weekend. Unfortunatly we do have a National in Michigan (GLDiv) and a double reg. at Beaver Run
( NEDiv) both are within driving distance of Mid Ohio and will effect the volunteer base for the event.


Todd

erlrich
12-29-2007, 09:02 PM
For those of you who were there last year, I wanted to get your reaction to a comment that came back from one of our MARRS racers who had attended events at Mid-Ohio in the past. This was in response to Gregg's informal survey of some of the MARRS drivers: Except, the people who run Mid Ohio treat you like crap. My last two visits there convinced I would never go back. No paddock camping, no pets, and I heard of security guards going through racers belongings when they were gone. One driver wishing to repair his Honda and wanted to work late was arrested when he refused to leave, all he wanted to do was make it to morning hardship.

Have things changed since he was last there?

DBurke
12-29-2007, 10:03 PM
ITE
Only thing that could de-rail is work.

TAC
12-29-2007, 10:18 PM
For those of you who were there last year, I wanted to get your reaction to a comment that came back from one of our MARRS racers who had attended events at Mid-Ohio in the past. This was in response to Gregg's informal survey of some of the MARRS drivers: Except, the people who run Mid Ohio treat you like crap. My last two visits there convinced I would never go back. No paddock camping, no pets, and I heard of security guards going through racers belongings when they were gone. One driver wishing to repair his Honda and wanted to work late was arrested when he refused to leave, all he wanted to do was make it to morning hardship.

Have things changed since he was last there?
[/b]

Hmm... I wonder how long ago these events happened? No pets is true. Private and Mark clubs rent the track for daytime purposes only which means you have to leave at 6:30 pm daily. Keeping the track open at night is extra but is covered under all SCCA and NASA contracts. So that could be where all the rotten experiences with security came from. Security is pretty laid back at SCCA and NASA weekends. Well..except when Matt Downing throws a party and gets "Barney fife" excited. I still think you guys should have just duct taped him to the catch fence :)

Todd C.
Cincinnati SCCA

tom91ita
12-29-2007, 11:20 PM
For those of you who were there last year, I wanted to get your reaction to a comment that came back from one of our MARRS racers who had attended events at Mid-Ohio in the past. This was in response to Gregg's informal survey of some of the MARRS drivers: Except, the people who run Mid Ohio treat you like crap. My last two visits there convinced I would never go back. No paddock camping, no pets, and I heard of security guards going through racers belongings when they were gone. One driver wishing to repair his Honda and wanted to work late was arrested when he refused to leave, all he wanted to do was make it to morning hardship.

Have things changed since he was last there?
[/b]

i have always stayed in the paddock in either my enclosed trailer or my tent. the grassy knolls that is. not sure about the paved pit areas. i do think that spectators must stay in the camping area west of the keyhole but i have always seen racers stay in the grassy upper paddock areas (up in the general area of where the showers are).

i have no pets so i don't care about this and frankly i do not care for the "surprises" that many pet owners have left at other venues. as far as i am concerned, this is a plus.

i have seen folks work well into the night but i think there is an exception to running to race engines after some time. and since i sleep in the paddock, that is fine with me as well. and i don't mind generators for emergency lighting but simulated dyno runs at 2:00 a.m. piss me off.. i have heard others comment that there power is not available as other tracks where they race.

the only times i have heard of folks being asked to leave was due to bad behavior and typically alcohol was a factor.

one night i got up and helped the guy in the paddock next to me change his clutch at 2:00 a.m. when he said thanks the next day, i was embarassed that i did not do it to be nice but to get back to sleep.

i have never heard about the guards going through stuff. i have heard about them giving bike riders a bad time but it was in the supps that no bicycles were allowed. i am no longer as casual as i used to be in the paddock and lock up when not there since there are many more posers hanging around.

i have no idea when an incident as described above might have happened. it just has not been my experiences and it is still one of my favorite tracks.

and as far as i was concerned, the IT Festival was hands down a better racing event than the NASA Nationals. less money, good format, bigger fields (ITB vs. H5) and depth of competition.

thus, no Honda Challenge for me in 2008 and it will be IT only.

i would strongly urge your friend to come back.

we'll put some :birra: on ice for them but will not leave a light on, the campers in the paddock don't like it.

philstireservice
12-30-2007, 03:51 AM
Maybe I'll bring my SPU, ITE, EP Acura GSR and play when I'm not mounting tires........

Dave Burchfield
12-30-2007, 09:37 AM
I have been racing and working at Mid Ohio since 1990 and have never experienced an incident like was indicated. People camp in ALL areas of the paddock, paved and grass as well without problem. I have camped in the paved area, the grassy paddock, and the workers area, been up late at night, had security and track officials visit, and never had a problem.

Sometimes, the Deputy Sherrif gets tense when people blow up the porta potties, do wheelies for hundreds of yards through the paddock, and drive recklessly through the paddock as I have seen, but there has generally been little aggressive activity otherwise.

My understanding about the pet issue is that someone allowed their pet to get loose and ended up on the track dicing with the racers. Not a good situation. The easiest fix was to disallow pets rather than try to contain them and deal with angry participants when their pets and/or cars are involved in a head on crash.

Of course, my experiences over the last 17 years may not be the norm, they are just my experiences.

dickita15
12-30-2007, 09:44 AM
I found the staff pretty easygoing last year and have never had any problems when the runoffs were there. I did hear about someone getting hassled for driving from the paddock to registration with some people in the back of a pickup. Security claimed that public road rules apply on track property. Seemed odd.

downingracing
12-30-2007, 11:42 AM
Mid-Ohio had new "everyone" last year, so there was some small issues with people doing what they have always done... The track management is GREAT and the facility is top notch. I'm sure the little issues of 07 will not be a problem in 08. :)

xr4racer
12-30-2007, 02:23 PM
The security staff that got the reputation as being th "Nazis" are long gone. The track has been very pleasant for at least 5 years. A couple of years ago Joey Hand tried to see how far a Rolex series BMW would fly and we had a race the following weekend. We were setting out to walk the track and see how they fixed the rut that launched him when a security SUV came up to us. We told him what we wanted to do and he said we could not be walking the track after dark and it was almost dark. He said jump in and I will take you on the tour around the track and show us how they had fixed the track in that area. This was right after the paving that added the oval using the keyhole. He even took all 5 of us back to our paddock spot, this would not have been the case 5 years ago.

matt

dominojd
12-31-2007, 09:44 AM
I'm in too!! I just thought it was assumed. ;)
Of course, that all depends on Crazy Joe not taking me out in the PDX. :blink:
[/b]

That's OK this year you will not even be near me so don't worry about it. :P




I thought it was the other way around? LOL :P
[/b]


Me too? ;)

JLawton
12-31-2007, 11:36 AM
Me too?
[/b]


Maybe you can post the video then?? Let unbiased third parties decide where the blame was. :P

Or should I go into great detail with MY side of the story??

dominojd
12-31-2007, 12:05 PM
Maybe you can post the video then?? Let unbiased third parties decide where the blame was. :P

Or should I go into great detail with MY side of the story??
[/b]

Please lets here the story. ;)

TAC
01-02-2008, 11:49 PM
Here is some interesting numbers compiled from last years NARRC, MARRS, SARRC, Mid-Am, Great Lakes Champ Series and Central division region points championship.

Combined

ITA ........ 285
ITB .........170
ITC..........80
ITS...........220
IT7...........74
ITR...........32
ITE...........62
SSM.........127
SM...........547

The numbers may be a bit off since I'm not sure how much crossover there is between MARRS and NARRC

Number of race series running the same weekend as the I.T.SPEC*tacular last year (5).
Number this year (1) way down in Daytona

:blink:

Todd

x1/9racer
01-03-2008, 09:40 AM
May run a shorter schedule this year than in past years, but I definately plan on doing my part to shed parts and/or fluids around the track at this event!

planet6racing
01-04-2008, 11:26 AM
Well, since Steve Linn is planning to run as a backmarker in ITA and, therefore, I will have someone to race with...

I'm planning to be there. It will be great to see everyone again! Hopefully, this time, I won't need the vice grips!!! :D

gsbaker
01-04-2008, 03:11 PM
It will be great to see everyone again! Hopefully, this time, I won't need the vice grips!!! :D
[/b]
:lol: :023:

Racerlinn
01-04-2008, 03:52 PM
Well, since Steve Linn is planning to run as a backmarker in ITA and, therefore, I will have someone to race with...

I'm planning to be there. It will be great to see everyone again! Hopefully, this time, I won't need the vice grips!!! :D
[/b]

I like racing with lunch boxes. Ya can't see the dents! :P

JLawton
01-04-2008, 04:16 PM
I like racing with lunch boxes. Ya can't see the dents! :P
[/b]


How did the "lunch box" name come about?? In my day, lunch boxes were metal. :blink:

Oh crap, I think that means I'm old!!

lateapex911
01-04-2008, 04:35 PM
In my day, lunch boxes were paper, and brown, and had to be returned home for another use, because "Paper bags don't grow on trees, you know.." ;)

tom91ita
01-04-2008, 04:42 PM
our lunch sacks were 5# sugar sacks. they would last a year.

the rich kids had the peanut butter pails for lunch buckets.

and they could afford the 1/2 pint of milk for $.02 too!

gran racing
01-04-2008, 04:48 PM
Todd, can you throw in a wheel chair race for these guys sometime during the weekend? :unsure:


I know, I'm not much younger myself. :(

gsbaker
01-04-2008, 04:49 PM
and they could afford the 1/2 pint of milk for $.02 too!
[/b]
Chocolate was $.03, but I could never afford it.

Andy Bettencourt
01-04-2008, 05:52 PM
http://www.skooldays.com/images/lb1296.jpg

gsbaker
01-04-2008, 06:03 PM
Yeah, rub it in Andy. And me with a paper bag...

gran racing
01-04-2008, 06:23 PM
Lucky guy Andy, your wife packed you two lunches today?!

TAC
01-04-2008, 06:30 PM
Todd, can you throw in a wheel chair race for these guys sometime during the weekend? :unsure:
I know, I'm not much younger myself. :(
[/b]


I think they call that a handicap race. :lol:

Andy Bettencourt
01-04-2008, 06:31 PM
Lucky guy Andy, your wife packed you two lunches today?! [/b]

Hungry boy, Andy is. :)

lateapex911
01-04-2008, 07:20 PM
those are very very *cute*, Andy. They match your cute race car....

Ok, A beer the next time I see you to the first person who can ID the yellow or red car, and it's engine. Double if you can name the designer and year introduced.

TAC
01-05-2008, 01:14 AM
Here's the latest update on classes and race groups.

First of all there will be a PDX on Friday August 8th that will have test groups included.

Second The weekend format will stay the same. Three races , Overall championship, individual medals for the afternoon races.

After a long and lively discussion Thursday night the committee has decided to keep 6 race groups. Each race group will receive 2 hrs. of track time over the weekend. This is a reduction of 15 minutes per day for each group. The race groups are as follows.

ITA, IT7, ITC
ITS, ITB
ITE, ITR, TCC
SM, SSM
SRF
CFF,FF, CFC, FC

I will be happy to answer any questions in regards to the committee meeting and decisions by PM. For now the big question I have for all of you is how you prefer that I break up your track time.

Saturday
Qualifying...30 minutes,.............or 25 minutes,.............or 20 minutes.............or. 15 minutes
Race..........30 minutes/17 laps or 35 minutes/ 20 laps or 40 minutes/22 laps or 45 minutes/ 25 laps.

Sunday
Qualifying race 30 minutes/ 17 laps...... or 25 minutes/ 14 laps.....or 20 minutes 12 laps
Race ...............30 minutes. 17 laps...... or 35 minutes/ 20 laps.... .or 40 minutes 22 laps



Best Regards,

Todd Cholmondeley
Cincinnati Race Chairman

R2 Racing
01-05-2008, 03:39 AM
My vote is for the 20 minute & 40 minute combination, each day.


So Todd, what are the chances we can get the open wheelers inbetween the "ITA/7/C" & "ITS/B" run groups? I think each would appreciate getting to watch the others run group. I know I would!

TAC
01-05-2008, 09:20 AM
I thought I'd float this onto the next page.

Here's the latest update on classes and race groups.

First of all there will be a PDX on Friday August 8th that will have test groups included.

Second The weekend format will stay the same. Three races , Overall championship, individual medals for the afternoon races.

After a long and lively discussion Thursday night the committee has decided to keep 6 race groups. Each race group will receive 2 hrs. of track time over the weekend. This is a reduction of 15 minutes per day for each group. The race groups are as follows.

ITA, IT7, ITC
ITS, ITB
ITE, ITR, TCC
SM, SSM
SRF
CFF,FF, CFC, FC

I will be happy to answer any questions in regards to the committee meeting and decisions by PM. For now the big question I have for all of you is how you prefer that I break up your track time.

Saturday
Qualifying...30 minutes,.............or 25 minutes,.............or 20 minutes.............or. 15 minutes
Race..........30 minutes/17 laps or 35 minutes/ 20 laps or 40 minutes/22 laps or 45 minutes/ 25 laps.

Sunday
Qualifying race 30 minutes/ 17 laps...... or 25 minutes/ 14 laps.....or 20 minutes 12 laps
Race ...............30 minutes. 17 laps...... or 35 minutes/ 20 laps.... .or 40 minutes 22 laps



Best Regards,

Todd Cholmondeley
Cincinnati Race Chairman

tom91ita
01-05-2008, 09:20 AM
alex, i'll take minimum qualifying and maximum racing for two hours please.

Todd,

Thanks for the update. 2 hours is still good. but if we are giving up some time, i would rather give up qualifying time.

What Kevin said is fine but rather than pick one, i'll just go with the concept that please go to mimimum qualifying and maximum race time for me.

and please, please, please, what Kev said with regards to the run groups (i think what you have is just the list of groups and was not necessarily meant to be the run order?), please space them so that we can watch the other groups.

the ability to watch the ITA race means more to me than which split i get between the qualifying/racing times. it will be that good.

and i would like to think that the ITS/ITB show will be good as well.

thanks again for all your efforts and that of the others in your region!

tom

TAC
01-05-2008, 09:29 AM
My vote is for the 20 minute & 40 minute combination, each day.
So Todd, what are the chances we can get the open wheelers inbetween the "ITA/7/C" & "ITS/B" run groups? I think each would appreciate getting to watch the others run group. I know I would!
[/b]

Shouldn't be a problem.



Tom,

Your welcome and thanks for the support.

In a nutshell it came down to " How do we preserve the ITR, ITE, TCC race group as it stands"? The best solution was to add the 6th race group and give ITR and ITE a chance to expand. Lets hope big Dan Jones can persuade some ITR's this year and we can get the word out to the ITE's! Plus the region will be working hard to accomplish the task also.




Todd

924Guy
01-05-2008, 10:42 AM
those are very very *cute*, Andy. They match your cute race car....

Ok, A beer the next time I see you to the first person who can ID the yellow or red car, and it's engine. Double if you can name the designer and year introduced.
[/b]

Mine.

Meyers Manx dune buggy, VW aircooled power, Bruce Manx, from '64. :D

OK, back on topic - ++1 on putting a group between the ITA, IT7, ITC and ITS, ITB groups!!! Definitely wanna see the ITA battle!!

As for track time split... no, we probably don't need a full 30 minute session to qual, but 15 minutes at Mid-O sounds pretty darn short! I'd prefer one of the middle two options, 20-25 minutes. For Sunday, definitely bias towards the latter two options; while it really helped me last year, the qualifying race shouldn't be as long as the main event, now, should it?

R2 Racing
01-05-2008, 12:12 PM
As for track time split... no, we probably don't need a full 30 minute session to qual, but 15 minutes at Mid-O sounds pretty darn short! I'd prefer one of the middle two options, 20-25 minutes. For Sunday, definitely bias towards the latter two options; while it really helped me last year, the qualifying race shouldn't be as long as the main event, now, should it?
[/b]
I guess I'd be ok if we went with a 25/35 minute split on Saturday and a 20/40 minute split on Sunday. That would give a little more time to the "out of towners" on Saturday morning to get a good lap. You shouldn't need that long though - 3 laps, done. :P Then that would also make Sunday afternoon's race the longest and most ballertastic.

Last year I was lucky enough ( :( ) to get to watch the Sunday afternoon races from the grandstand and afterwards, I would've been mad if I was in either of those run groups and had to miss watching the other. They were both great races to watch, in every class.

lateapex911
01-05-2008, 12:20 PM
Mine.

Meyers Manx dune buggy, VW aircooled power, Bruce Manx, from '64. :D

[/b]

Correctomundo, sorta!

That is the car, or at least it's an artists impression of the car. The Manx was pretty brilliant actually, and had a lot of copiers. However, you flubbed on the designer. Bruce Meyers designed and built it, but was unable to patent it. The "Manx" was the model name. interestingly, he has introduced a 4 seat version recently called the "Manxster", i think.

So I owe you a beer. However, I will add a beer to the pot to the person that can tell me what it's most famous competition finish was. (And I'll give you a hint, it wasn't anything from the "Scooby Doo" series.)

A third beer to anyone who can identify the true identity of the voice behind Andy's lunchbox.

Gregg
01-05-2008, 01:50 PM
A third beer to anyone who can identify the true identity of the voice behind Andy's lunchbox.
[/b]
Gonna go out on a limb and say Mel Blanc.

But back on topic, I currently have five MARRS ITA drivers interested, two of which (me, ajn) have posted here already.

lateapex911
01-05-2008, 02:27 PM
Mel Blanc it was. i am out two beers, LOL.

Expecting you all to come to Ohio for payment!

jlucas
01-05-2008, 02:48 PM
and we can get the word out to the ITE's!
[/b]

Todd,
Speaking of ITE, what is the ITE ruleset for our region? I know every region is different.

Thanks,
Jeremy

TAC
01-05-2008, 04:36 PM
Jeremy,

You are correct. The 2007 rules for ITE in Great Lakes Division are:

A. Cars prepared for any past or current recognized showroom stock based amateur or professional racing series, not eligible for any current SCCA regional class.

B. Drivers must have the rule book and be able to prove compliance to the series rules the cars is prepared to.

C. All cars must run DOT approved tires

D. Cars must meet minimum safety requirements defined in the GCR and ITCS for Improved Touring.

All cars must have an SCCA logbook and Drivers must have an SCCA or other competition license listed in the GCR. the unwritten rule.

Now I know that BP ( World Challenge GT based) and DP ( World Challenge Touring Car based) are "National Classes" but I think it really comes down to the Chief stewards decision if things are in question.

Series cars that are eligible are:

NASA
BMWCCA
IMSA Firehawk
PCA
renault Cup
VW Rabbbit/Golf Gold Cup
Ferrari Challenge
Corvette Challenge
Viper Racing League

ones I gotta check on:

American V-8 Supercar Series
PBOC
MAZDA MX-5 challenge

And I'm sure there are a bazillion more I don't know about.

Todd

jlucas
01-05-2008, 04:45 PM
Ok then, I should be able to bring something ITE if the ITA car is no longer around by then.

Edit: Looks like it should be ITA! :)

gran racing
01-05-2008, 07:02 PM
most famous competition finish was.[/b]

Well then Jake, you're results are skewed and biased - Scooby Doo was by FAR the most popular finish. You even thought of it by mentioning it in your post.

TimM ITB
01-05-2008, 10:04 PM
Todd;

my votes, FWIW!!

20 minutes on the qualifying side - 40 minutes on the racing side both on Saturday and Sunday. PLUS, a short amount of time on Sunday morning for a hardship checkout.

Please..........ABSOLUTELY put serious effort into scheduling the run groups so that the IT contingent can get to watch and support each other - it really is important to us as this crazy IT community DOES support one another..............as well as being the first to trash each other!!

Is it August yet?? Yikes!

thanks for listening

Tim M

TAC
01-06-2008, 09:57 AM
But back on topic, I currently have five MARRS ITA drivers interested, two of which (me, ajn) have posted here already.
[/b]

Gregg,

Thanks for all the support.


Tim,

ITB, ITS....(give them the 8 am wakeup call this year) :)

SRF

ITA, IT7,ITC

SM, SSM

ITE, ITR, TCC (AS is a maybe)

CFF, FF, CFC, FC



Todd

Andy Bettencourt
01-06-2008, 10:35 AM
ITB, ITS....(give them the 8 am wakeup call this year) :)

SRF

ITA, IT7,ITC

SM, SSM

ITE, ITR, TCC (AS is a maybe)

CFF, FF, CFC, FC



Todd [/b]

How about you swap the open wheelers and the Miata group? That way all the production-based cars can see each other...

Jeremy Billiel
01-06-2008, 10:35 AM
Ok then, I should be able to bring something ITE if the ITA car is no longer around by then.
[/b]

We can have a battle of the Jeremy's!

Greg will run my car in ITS and I will run ITE

dominojd
01-06-2008, 10:38 AM
Gregg,

Thanks for all the support.
Tim,

ITB, ITS....(give them the 8 am wakeup call this year) :)

SRF

ITA, IT7,ITC

SM, SSM

ITE, ITR, TCC (AS is a maybe)

CFF, FF, CFC, FC
Todd
[/b]

All these activities will be taking place on the pro course right? :D

924Guy
01-06-2008, 10:54 AM
However, you flubbed on the designer. Bruce Meyers designed and built it...
[/b]

so true... 'swhat I get for banging away on the keyboard too early in the AM, without enough coffee... :bash_1_:

See you at the Fest! :birra:

dominojd
01-06-2008, 10:57 AM
We can have a battle of the Jeremy's!

I will run ITE
[/b]

We know which Jeremy will win that one. :P
You make it to easy.

R2 Racing
01-06-2008, 11:28 AM
How about you swap the open wheelers and the Miata group? That way all the production-based cars can see each other...
[/b]
I'll second that request. I won't be mad though if it goes as Todd posted.

jlucas
01-06-2008, 11:33 AM
Hmmm, ITE goodness....
http://sromagazine.com/prima/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSC00140.JPG

lateapex911
01-06-2008, 11:50 AM
Jeeezzz..ITE BIGness!

I hope that's running Hondas never seen V8!

Andy Bettencourt
01-06-2008, 12:34 PM
This event is going to be huge. HUGE.

TAC
01-06-2008, 02:38 PM
Any news from the world of ITR? I can't believe Dan Jones is the only car out there.

Also any good forums for NASA out there where we could start some ITE conversations? I know Jeremy would love the competition.

924Guy
01-06-2008, 04:05 PM
nasaforums.com.

TAC
01-06-2008, 06:42 PM
nasaforums.com.
[/b]

Thanks. I should have thought of that. :023:

Racerlinn
01-06-2008, 08:48 PM
ITB, ITS....(give them the 8 am wakeup call this year) :)
SRF
ITA, IT7,ITC
SM, SSM
ITE, ITR, TCC (AS is a maybe)
CFF, FF, CFC, FC
Todd
[/b]

Yippee! Make TheGregAmy get up early while the rest of the ITA'ers sober up from the Downing Party!

gran racing
01-07-2008, 08:50 AM
Honda-tech in the road racing section is probably a better one. I'm not so sure about posting an SCCA announcement right on NASA's forums.

tom91ita
01-07-2008, 09:00 AM
as a NASA member, I have access to nasaforums.com.

i see nothing wrong with posting up an opportunity for major track time at mid-ohio, the site of the NASA Nationals.

gran racing
01-07-2008, 09:10 AM
Sounds like Tom is nominated for posting an announcment on nasaforums and myself on hondatech. :) Todd, do you have a pre-written release you'd like us to use or just want us to create something?


Todd, is there a chance of not using the chicane during any of these races to create additional passing opportunites?

What has the feeling been towards split starts by your region?

For the PDX, can we waive the tech inspection for anyone with a valid competition log book?

tom91ita
01-07-2008, 10:12 AM
i'd be happy to oblige!

a short paragraph with a link would be great.

lateapex911
01-07-2008, 12:32 PM
OK, sing with me now, to the tune of "Mary has a little lamb": "Tom's gonna get banned from Nasa forums, Nasa forums, Nasa forums....."

;)
Just kiddding....but,

(I've seen them be a tad more aggressive about things they don't like over there. Like the H&NRs thread got locked pretty darn quick. Don't be posting anything critical of the man, you know))

R2 Racing
01-07-2008, 02:16 PM
OK, sing with me now, to the tune of "Mary has a little lamb": "Tom's gonna get banned from Nasa forums, Nasa forums, Nasa forums....."[/b]
I thought the same thing. Careful Tom, you don't want to be added to the ever growing list of those who have been banned from NASA forums for saying anything not in line with the establishment. :018:

tom91ita
01-07-2008, 06:55 PM
I thought the same thing. Careful Tom, you don't want to be added to the ever growing list of those who have been banned from NASA forums for saying anything not in line with the establishment. :018:
[/b]

someone has to be the sacrificial lamb.....

TAC
01-07-2008, 09:33 PM
Sounds like Tom is nominated for posting an announcment on nasaforums and myself on hondatech. :) Todd, do you have a pre-written release you'd like us to use or just want us to create something?
Todd, is there a chance of not using the chicane during any of these races to create additional passing opportunites?

What has the feeling been towards split starts by your region?

For the PDX, can we waive the tech inspection for anyone with a valid competition log book?
[/b]


1. Hmm.. would it be better to test the waters at www.roadrace-autox.com first? Scott shouldn't mind too much since its already part of the sandbox cup. I hate to see anyone banned from a forum.

2. I'll talk about it with the Race Committee. I was going to save the pro straight for the I.T. 25th anniversary event next year. It will be 25 years next year right?

3. My feelings towards split starts is fine :) Its the Chief Steward who makes the call. There was a really bad accident at Mid-Ohio about 7 years ago during a split start. Litigation and other ugly things came out of that mess. So SCCA stewards tend to shy away from split starts. ( My opinion here:) If the entire race group wants a split start then it may be approved. But if there is a hold out in the group it won't happen.

4. PDX will be more organized. I can't say you won't need to bring your car down for Tech, but it will be much simpler than last year.

Todd

dj10
01-09-2008, 04:42 PM
Any news from the world of ITR? I can't believe Dan Jones is the only car out there.

Also any good forums for NASA out there where we could start some ITE conversations? I know Jeremy would love the competition.

[/b]

I know of a few ITR cars near Pgh & DC area. Last year the Beaver Run regional & Marrs conflicted with your dates.

TAC
01-09-2008, 05:54 PM
I know of a few ITR cars near Pgh & DC area. Last year the Beaver Run regional & Marrs conflicted with your dates.
[/b]


Dan,

Beaver Run will be running a Dbl. Reg. on the same date but NARRC, MARRS, CENDIV and the MIDDiv. I.T. tour are clear of the date. So tell them where the party is. :OLA:

Todd

dj10
01-09-2008, 06:55 PM
Dan,

Beaver Run will be running a Dbl. Reg. on the same date but NARRC, MARRS, CENDIV and the MIDDiv. I.T. tour are clear of the date. So tell them where the party is. :OLA:

Todd [/b]



I just saw this ad @scca.com. Now were talkin. ;)

UmbrellaGirls USA (http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/iclk?sa=l&ai=B08yRllCFR8biL6LyatrCtbgF1JL3MJTho7sBwI23AbDMCx ABGAEgnJmZAigFOABQyY_LzgVgycasjNCk9A-qAQowNTIxNTY0NDc3sgEMd3d3LnNjY2Eub3JnugEKMTYweDYwM F9hc8gBAdoBImh0dHA6Ly93d3cuc2NjYS5vcmcvaHViLmFzcHg _aHViPTGoAwHIAwfoA7QB6AO9AQ&num=1&adurl=http://www.umbrellagirlsusa.com&client=ca-pub-2458004793987541&nm=15) Full Service Modeling Agency Providing Elite Promotional Models

TAC
01-09-2008, 09:46 PM
I just saw this ad @scca.com. Now were talkin. ;)

UmbrellaGirls USA (http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/iclk?sa=l&ai=B08yRllCFR8biL6LyatrCtbgF1JL3MJTho7sBwI23AbDMCx ABGAEgnJmZAigFOABQyY_LzgVgycasjNCk9A-qAQowNTIxNTY0NDc3sgEMd3d3LnNjY2Eub3JnugEKMTYweDYwM F9hc8gBAdoBImh0dHA6Ly93d3cuc2NjYS5vcmcvaHViLmFzcHg _aHViPTGoAwHIAwfoA7QB6AO9AQ&num=1&adurl=http://www.umbrellagirlsusa.com&client=ca-pub-2458004793987541&nm=15) Full Service Modeling Agency Providing Elite Promotional Models
[/b]

I prefer the NOPI TV chicks myself :)

lateapex911
01-10-2008, 12:58 AM
Listen Todd, you get EITHER, and entries will rise................

TAC
01-10-2008, 07:44 AM
.............And so will the rate of Divorce. :P

JLawton
01-10-2008, 07:54 AM
and entries will rise................
[/b]

Amoung other things................

Rabbit07
01-10-2008, 08:26 AM
Amoung other things................
[/b]

And we digress.............

RacerBill
01-10-2008, 08:38 AM
And we digress.............
[/b]

"Never was a man with soul so dead
Who had never turned his head and said,
Not bad, not bad at all........"

dj10
01-10-2008, 10:39 AM
I prefer the NOPI TV chicks myself :) [/b]



Hell, I'm not particular, bring them all. :023:

RSTPerformance
01-10-2008, 10:55 AM
3. My feelings towards split starts is fine :) Its the Chief Steward who makes the call. There was a really bad accident at Mid-Ohio about 7 years ago during a split start. Litigation and other ugly things came out of that mess. So SCCA stewards tend to shy away from split starts. ( My opinion here:) If the entire race group wants a split start then it may be approved. But if there is a hold out in the group it won't happen.

Todd
[/b]


I don't want to bash stewards but... the chief last year wasn't on his game. The chief steward last year didn't even understanding what split starts and/or split grids were and was completely against listening to us (the drivers) to help make the racing safer and more fun. I begged and pleaded for him to work with us and to try split starts in at least one of the races sunday... It was a fustrating experience that really made me question the investment/fun ratio for a return.

If you want split starts my gut feeling is that you will need to have it in the supps. Todd, if you want split starts then why not have it in the supps???

Good luck!

Raymond

downingracing
01-10-2008, 11:47 AM
I don't want to bash stewards but... the chief last year wasn't on his game. The chief steward last year didn't even understanding what split starts and/or split grids were and was completely against listening to us (the drivers) to help make the racing safer and more fun. I begged and pleaded for him to work with us and to try split starts in at least one of the races sunday... It was a fustrating experience that really made me question the investment/fun ratio for a return.

If you want split starts my gut feeling is that you will need to have it in the supps. Todd, if you want split starts then why not have it in the supps???

Good luck!

Raymond
[/b]

And Split Starts aren't always Safer and More Fun.... It can make Turn 1 safer and more fun, but you then have WAY faster cars that now need to negotiate the slower cars (in the faster class) for the first few laps. Usually you are coming up on these 'slower' cars towards the end of the race. With a split start, they are dicing w/ the other cars in their class (start of the race!) and that can make getting past them a harder thing to do. (more frustrating and definately not safer...) Just my .02

RSTPerformance
01-10-2008, 12:02 PM
Matt-

Agreed... and reviewed.

The problem at Mid Ohio with the ITB/ITS cars is that the grid is split based on times, meaning that ALL of the ITS cars turn faster laps and the ITB cars wont catch the ITS cars. Sounds great we get a split grid (Not the same as a split start), however the less performing cars and drivers are slower in the first few laps with traffic and ITB cars can easily stay infront of some backmarker ITS cars. Then mix in the slower back sections with the fast front sections and you get one holding up another for at least 5-10 laps before things are sorted out. The ITB leaders are forced to make risky moves to stay infront of the ITS cars at the end of streights so that they can keep thier advantage over the next car. It reallty caused problems for us at this particular track.

I also understand that ITB cars would be lapped much faster... That to me doesn't seem as an issue because the cars that would be lapping us are not cars with similar speeds and they will easily pass down the streights.

Raymond - My .02 after experiencing it first hand

dj10
01-10-2008, 02:32 PM
Matt-

Agreed... and reviewed.

The problem at Mid Ohio with the ITB/ITS cars is that the grid is split based on times, meaning that ALL of the ITS cars turn faster laps and the ITB cars wont catch the ITS cars. Sounds great we get a split grid (Not the same as a split start), however the less performing cars and drivers are slower in the first few laps with traffic and ITB cars can easily stay infront of some backmarker ITS cars. Then mix in the slower back sections with the fast front sections and you get one holding up another for at least 5-10 laps before things are sorted out. The ITB leaders are forced to make risky moves to stay infront of the ITS cars at the end of streights so that they can keep thier advantage over the next car. It reallty caused problems for us at this particular track.

I also understand that ITB cars would be lapped much faster... That to me doesn't seem as an issue because the cars that would be lapping us are not cars with similar speeds and they will easily pass down the streights.

Raymond - My .02 after experiencing it first hand
[/b]

Raymond if the front running ITB cars are catching the backmarkers ITS cars it seems to me that you will have to make some moves on these people sometime and somewhere during the race. If you catch them latter on in the race they may screw you up just as bad. Just be carefull what you wish for. :D

gran racing
01-10-2008, 02:42 PM
It wasn't the back markers I (and Ray) had challenges with - it was the mid-pack ITS cars. I'm not sure which is best.

Andy Bettencourt
01-10-2008, 02:47 PM
Isn't the main benefit to a SS at MO the fact that not everyone in the session can see the green flag as it's thrown?

That should be manditory.

gran racing
01-10-2008, 03:51 PM
Ah, good point.

What about starting it on the back straight as done in some other events?

lateapex911
01-10-2008, 08:00 PM
Yea, THAT is a great point. On one start, i just freakin guessed. I could kinda see the flag stand...out my left window, ....I remember thinking, "THIS is sorta screwy!"

Why can't we use the back straight line?

(If we can, I promise not to ask for standing starts!)

TAC
01-10-2008, 09:08 PM
Lets see,

Split starts: That one is a decision only the Chief Steward can make. I can suggest that its really wanted but to put it into the supps. will never fly. Now if the front row of the slower class were to slow way down and make a gap..........

Back Straight starts: 1st lap = 1/2 lap.

Pro Straight: As far as I know Topeka only recognizes and lists track records established on the club course for regional events.

dickita15
01-11-2008, 06:56 AM
Split starts: That one is a decision only the Chief Steward can make. I can suggest that its really wanted but to put it into the supps. will never fly. [/b]

I believe it is normal for the chief steward to review supps before they are published. Split starts are a great idea as long as they are executed well and there is time to plan for them. To do it well it helps to have two pace cars. There needs to be a large gap between the two groups, 40-60 seconds. The big advantage to having it in the supps is that everyone has the same expectations.



Now if the front row of the slower class were to slow way down and make a gap..........
[/b]
Recipe for disaster



Pro Straight: As far as I know Topeka only recognizes and lists track records established on the club course for regional events.
[/b]
Each different course configuration is recorded by timing and scoring as a separate track record. I do not believe Topeka has anything to do with track records.

downingracing
01-11-2008, 08:51 AM
And if we move the start to the back straight (which I would actually like!), I won't get the benefits of the radios telling me "GREEN, GREEN, GO!, GO! :)

Seeing the flag at Mid-Ohio (front straight) is hard for anyone outside the top few rows...

gran racing
01-11-2008, 08:59 AM
I was on pole for ITB in one race last year and couldn't see the green (it was just out of sight). Like Jake, I saw other cars look like they were going and just went with it.

The more I think about it the more I'm a fan of doing the start on the back straight. Using the Pro course would also open up another passing opportunity and maybe help eliminate some of the need for a split start.

TAC
01-11-2008, 10:42 PM
Tom91ita,

Empty your inbox. I can't PM you back.

P.S. I have a response from the Chief steward about split starts. I wait till after the forum maintenance to post.

Todd

tom91ita
01-11-2008, 11:01 PM
todd,

done.

i would be in favor of a split start but not for the back straight.

too many late-braking heroics get attempted on the back straight.

tom

Grumpa
01-12-2008, 09:44 AM
too many late-braking heroics get attempted on the back straight.


Amen to that, Tom. If you ever made the Runoffs at MO and observed a backstretch run down to Madness you wouldn't want a part of that insanity either. Cold tires, high speed, adreneline/testosterone rush and a slow right is why they call it Madness. :wacko:

77ITA
01-14-2008, 12:59 PM
I'd really like to go this year, but it's not likely that I will have the ITR S2000 done by then. I'll be lucky if I can make the ARRC with as busy as I've been!

TAC
01-14-2008, 07:25 PM
Here is the reply from the chief steward ( Pat McCammon) on the subject of split starts.

" If the majority of a race group wants a split start I will grant it. Track me down at the track and let me know well before the group is to go out for Saturday Afternoon's race."

He is leaving it up to the drivers. So I guess coordinate it and pick a representative from each of the classes in the group. Pat will be at the track Friday evening Aug.8th

P.S. I guess I'd better change my profile since I have become TAC = Tefkatt

Todd

TAC
01-18-2008, 07:57 AM
Hmmm...no one has responded to my last post on Split starts. Does that mean your all happy with the answer? :p


Todd

dickita15
01-18-2008, 09:42 AM
I do not think it is a matter of being happy or not, you have said what it is. Personally I believe it should be decided in time to have it in the supps. It is about setting expectations for the competitors and then meeting them. With the chief not willing to make a decision at this time somebody will be disappointed at the event. But again I think we have been told that is the way it is.

gran racing
01-18-2008, 10:49 AM
What Dick said. I'm not a fan of having to walk around the paddock collecting signatures in order to obtain a split start. Either it'll be done or it won't - let's make this determination before the event.

tom91ita
01-18-2008, 01:01 PM
i suggest separate threads and polls for each race group and let the majority rule and put in supps accordingly. would that be an acceptable means?

split start is my preference for ITB if it is to be tracked per this thread.

shwah
01-18-2008, 01:45 PM
I don't much care. Honestly - dealing with other classes is an integral part of road racing. I have been hurt by, and helped by it in different events. It is a pain to deal with an S or A car slow enough in turns to be in our way, but that car will be in our way at some point, split start or no, that's road racing. The best solution is to out qualify said cars:p

Rabbit07
01-18-2008, 02:17 PM
The best solution is to out qualify said cars:p

Amen to that!

RacerBill
01-18-2008, 04:06 PM
"You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time. But you can never please all of the people all of the time" Abraham Lincoln

While I don't care at this time, I know that there are those who are very passionate about split starts, both for and against. Hard decision, hope it gets worked out, preferably long before the event.

Andy Bettencourt
01-18-2008, 04:20 PM
Let's take the ITS and ITB example. The main benefit (to me) is that cars from different classes that run the SAME lap times will NEVER see each other. During a standard start, they are gridded toghether and they run together all race - with the 'faster' class often having an affect on the front of the 'slower' class. In a Championship event such as this, you want to have the individual classes race against each other for as long as possible.

The fast B cars will catch the slow S cars but they will be able to pass them.

PLEASE put it in the supps. It could 'cost' you 3-5 entires just from what we are reading here.

tom91ita
01-18-2008, 04:34 PM
.... The best solution is to out qualify said cars:p

it does not matter if an ITB car out qualifies the ITS car if they grid the ITS and ITB cars in separate groups. the slow ITS car effectively gets a free pass to be at the back of the ITS field and ahead of the ITB front runners.

i would prefer the split start with separate groups but do not care enough to not attend if it is not in the supps. i am there either way. this is too good an event to skip for this issue. :023:

dazzlesa
01-18-2008, 05:40 PM
It Is On The Calendar For Me And The B Car. Please Make It A Split Start. I Have No Power To Fight With S Cars. AND WHAT ANDY SAID>

shwah
01-18-2008, 06:00 PM
it does not matter if an ITB car out qualifies the ITS car if they grid the ITS and ITB cars in separate groups. the slow ITS car effectively gets a free pass to be at the back of the ITS field and ahead of the ITB front runners.

Yeah that comment was in regard to standard mixed grid. I'll be there no matter what - inverted split group single start in reverse, you name it.:p

TAC
01-18-2008, 06:02 PM
[quote=RacerBill;258005]"You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time. But you can never please all of the people all of the time" Abraham Lincoln

"He must of been a race chairman in his early days." :023: Todd ( split decision) Cholmondeley

lateapex911
01-18-2008, 08:46 PM
Andy's point is VERY valid. While the split start can't eliminate the issue, it can and will minimize it.

tom91ita
01-18-2008, 09:52 PM
and for any unfamiliar with why some of the split start discussion is taking place, fast forward this vid to 6:15 and watch the first lap.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4732411069569367766&q=mid-ohio+itb+video&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

RSTPerformance
01-19-2008, 01:42 AM
I appreciate all the attention this topic has recieved as I am very pasionite about it. Some people have made comments about the "slow" ITS cars and out qualifying them... last year the "slowest" ITS cars were as fast as the fastest ITB cars. The qualifying grid for sundays race was a split grid where ALL ITS cars out qualified the ITB cars. The problem came because the front ITB drivers and cars were faster in the begining of the race, especially at the start due to experience and the cars ability to handle side by side racing and different lines a bit better. If we had a split start the ITB cars would never see the ITS cars until the leaders started lapping the ITB field. My guess based on the cars I ran with it would not be an issue for them to just drive bye on the the streights.

Raymond - Thanks again for listening!!!- Blethen

TAC
01-19-2008, 01:49 AM
Sigh..........Let me work on it.

dickita15
01-19-2008, 08:00 AM
Sigh..........Let me work on it.
thank you...

TAC
01-19-2008, 09:40 AM
Your welcome.

TAC
01-20-2008, 04:29 PM
On the subject of split starts. I am working on this subject primarily for the ITB/ITS group only correct?


Todd

lateapex911
01-20-2008, 05:17 PM
I am sure that some ITA guys would like to rid themselves of the IT7 cars, but honestly, most ITA cars motor on the 7s down the straights, so my take is that it isn't an issue....

JLawton
01-21-2008, 07:26 AM
I am sure that some ITA guys would like to rid themselves of the IT7 cars, but honestly, most ITA cars motor on the 7s down the straights, so my take is that it isn't an issue....


I have no problems with the IT7s, as long as they don't catch on fire........








:p

Rabbit07
01-21-2008, 08:01 AM
I believe that we need a split start with the American ITA cars out front. :p

Greg Amy
01-21-2008, 08:58 AM
I believe that we need a split start with the American ITA cars out front. :p
Hell, dude, I think you and Jeff Lawton have a damn good chance of starting in front of the IT-7 cars even WITHOUT a split-start...

lateapex911
01-21-2008, 09:51 AM
I have no problems with the IT7s, as long as they don't catch on fire........








:p

Um, Jeffy, get your car with 30 HP more in FRONT of the old live axle jap in the box, and you won't have that issue!

backatcha

dominojd
01-21-2008, 05:44 PM
Um, Jeffy, get your car with 30 HP more in FRONT of the old live axle jap in the box, and you won't have that issue!

backatcha

I think what Jeff meant to say was, "I have no problem with IT7 cars as long as they are not on fire while I am lapping them." :p

gran racing
01-21-2008, 06:39 PM
The best solution is to out qualify said car

Chris, I normally would agree with you on what you've said in regards to spilt starts. At any other track I've raced at thus far, I've never seen a real need to incorporate split starts although certainly do see a benefit (I mean experienced what the negative consequences) at the ARRC. When running Mid Ohio with the chicane, I found there to be only a few places that are good passing zones especially when trying to take on a higher HP car. The front and back straights are all in favor of the higher ITS car. Now maybe if we don't use the chicance, it would give me a chance to out brake an ITS car.

The issue even if an ITB car out qualifies and ITS car is the at the start, the ITS car should have the advantage on that straight, then again on the long back straight. We (ITB cars) make a lot of our lap times on other areas of the track where its not possible to pass, or at least not possible without taking a big risk.

Knestis
01-21-2008, 09:22 PM
Multi-class racing means we have to deal with, uh... multiple classes.

I don't care and personally think split starts are kind of silly.

K

gran racing
01-21-2008, 09:59 PM
Keep in mind were talking a sprint race K. :) I really don't care much either way as we're all facing the same obstacles.

gsbaker
01-22-2008, 12:20 PM
Keep in mind were talking a sprint race K. :) I really don't care much either way as we're all facing the same obstacles.
...as long as you're facing the same direction...:D

Dave Burchfield
01-22-2008, 01:57 PM
So Gregg, you headed South in the next month? The first cold one is on me.

Isn't it great to be talking about all of the fun we are going to be having at this early date? I hope you are still planning to be there.

TAC
01-26-2008, 01:06 PM
In regards to the ITB, ITS split start. I have talked through the options with our Chief Steward and have come up with the following solution.

When you check in at Mid Ohio in August all ITB and ITS drivers will be handed a ballot to vote ( YES) or ( NO ) on a split start. A majority of the vote ( one way or the other) will decide how the race starts will be conducted. The chief steward will announce the results on Saturday morning before lunch.

I know that may not sit well with some but its the best compromise I can come up with. Besides I doubt many drivers are going to be against a split start anyhow. But the Chief Steward wants to make sure all the drivers involved get a voice in the decision.

Todd

dj10
01-26-2008, 01:50 PM
In regards to the ITB, ITS split start. I have talked through the options with our Chief Steward and have come up with the following solution.

When you check in at Mid Ohio in August all ITB and ITS drivers will be handed a ballot to vote ( YES) or ( NO ) on a split start. A majority of the vote ( one way or the other) will decide how the race starts will be conducted. The chief steward will announce the results on Saturday morning before lunch.

I know that may not sit well with some but its the best compromise I can come up with. Besides I doubt many drivers are going to be against a split start anyhow. But the Chief Steward wants to make sure all the drivers involved get a voice in the decision.

Todd

Todd, if you feel that hardly any drivers will be against the split start they why add to the confusion of the weekend? IMO just do the spilt start that way everyone will know what is happening even before they get to the track. A split start should have no adverse effects what so ever with these 2 race groups.
"Just Do It"

Eagle7
01-26-2008, 02:37 PM
In regards to the ITB, ITS split start. I have talked through the options with our Chief Steward and have come up with the following solution.

When you check in at Mid Ohio in August all ITB and ITS drivers will be handed a ballot to vote ( YES) or ( NO ) on a split start. A majority of the vote ( one way or the other) will decide how the race starts will be conducted. The chief steward will announce the results on Saturday morning before lunch.

I know that may not sit well with some but its the best compromise I can come up with. Besides I doubt many drivers are going to be against a split start anyhow. But the Chief Steward wants to make sure all the drivers involved get a voice in the decision.

Todd
Could you add "Don't Care" to those choices?

lateapex911
01-26-2008, 02:57 PM
Well, I'm not affected, but, I can't see anyone complaining that the opinion of the majority will be considered. Sounds fair to me.

RSTPerformance
01-26-2008, 04:17 PM
Todd-

Thanks for the hard work, this seems like a fair option. I wont let this be a deciding factor anymore as I think you have done a great job at coming up with a solution. For us it will now simply depend on the checkbook status, we will probably register but I can't gurantee anything as unfortunatly we are growing up and starting to buy houses and and other stuff that seems to take away the extra $$$... :(

Raymond "Thanks again" Blethen

Catch22
01-27-2008, 01:28 AM
Multi-class racing means we have to deal with, uh... multiple classes.

I don't care and personally think split starts are kind of silly.

K

My thoughts, having done the ARRC with split starts and without:

- A championship style event should do whatever it can to get cars in the same class competing MOSTLY against cars in the same class. While there isn't nearly enough time to get each class its own run group, split starts do help.

- At the '05 ARRC we didn't get a split start in ITB/ITC, and there was a big shmozzle (sp?) between some front ITC cars and ITB cars on lap one. It was a matter of everyone getting bunched together and trying to use different class cars as picks against the cars in their own class. Split starts help eliminate that scenario.

- At the '04 ARRC we had an ITB/ITC split start with C starting about 30 seconds behind B. The start was completely clean for both classes, and by the time the fast C cars started mingling with the slow B cars and the fast B cars started mingling with the slow C cars everything had strung out a bit and passing was much easier with FAR less contact.

- A split start actually allows the top qualifiers of the slower class to do a real start. They get to take the green as a race group instead of being all spread out from the middle to back of a faster group of cars. When I was in ITC that was a BIG DEAL for us at the ARRC split starts because it was the only time we ever got to actually sit on a front row.
Again, a nice feature for an event that wants to niche itself as a big deal "championship" type of race.

You can go ahead and count my yes vote now.

Scott Giles
22 ITB

lateapex911
01-27-2008, 11:09 AM
My thoughts, having done the ARRC with split starts and without:



..., and by the time the fast C cars started mingling with the slow B cars and the fast B cars started mingling with the slow C cars everything had strung out a bit and passing was much easier with FAR less contact.

And one other thing that isn't obvious...

When a driver in a car in the faster class has a car from a slower class catch up...after starting 30 seconds back, it makes an impression in the faster class drivers mind...and he lets the slower car get by with less fighting. That's not the case when the cars start together...it's never pounded into the faster class guys head that he's actually slow. We drivers sometimes need it spelled out for us! Egos, and all that...

jinxcrx
01-27-2008, 11:21 AM
Scott....
Couldn't have explained it better......
Count my vote now also!
Jinx

924Guy
01-27-2008, 01:11 PM
+1 - Scott did an excellent job of summing it up! I'm in...

Catch22
02-01-2008, 05:04 PM
And one other thing that isn't obvious...

When a driver in a car in the faster class has a car from a slower class catch up...after starting 30 seconds back, it makes an impression in the faster class drivers mind...and he lets the slower car get by with less fighting. That's not the case when the cars start together...it's never pounded into the faster class guys head that he's actually slow. We drivers sometimes need it spelled out for us! Egos, and all that...

Extremely good point.

I was in the lead ITC "pack" at the 04 ARRC and when we caught B cars they were moving out of the way and not getting involved in our race.

At the 05 ARRC there wasn't an ITC lead pack until about 5 laps in because we had to work ourselves out of the B cars that were all scattered in the middle of us. If you are thinking that caused a good bit of extra contact, you are thinking correctly.

Again, if you want the event to be viewed as "special" and not just another weekend at Mid Ohio, this is one of the things you should consider doing. I'd easily skip another weekend to do one that I know will have split starts. NO hesitation on that one.

TAC
02-09-2008, 10:30 AM
Changing subjects. This is what the run groups and order are looking like for this year. The only change that still may happen is swapping the SRF and Formula group.

Group 1.....ITS, ITB

Group 2....SRF

Group3....ITA, IT7, ITC

Group4....ITE, ITR, TCC, AS

Group5....SM, SSM

Group6....CFF, FF, CFC, FC

All the 40 min/ 22 lap races will be after lunch this year.

Todd

Racerlinn
02-11-2008, 12:31 PM
Group3....ITA, IT7, ITC
Todd

What's the over/under on the time it takes for the ITA guys to get the Downing Bonfire closed down this year? :happy204:

TAC
03-07-2008, 04:23 PM
I'm putting together an "intending to run the I.T.SPEC*tacular" bio page together for the cincy website. If you are interested in being on the list let me know. I do have last years page if you just want me to copy the information for this year.

Todd

TAC
03-16-2008, 01:08 PM
There is new material posted on the web site. We have the 2007 overall champs listed with pictures. The web master is promising me he will have the first of the driver Bio's up today. I'll let you know when they are up. www.cincyscca.com

We also should have Phil's Tire Service info listed soon.


Todd