Area 12 report from Philip Creighton

[pballance]

Not all of you may have seen this. This type of communication is healthy for us and for the club. I have copied it in its entirety. Interesting reading and it appears that Philip is interested in keeping club racing alive.



"Area 12 Directors Report – Philip Creighton


After being elected in November, I hardly had time to think before I was in Topeka at the Club Office for my first meeting of the SCCA Inc. Board of Directors. All the new Directors go through an orientation process at the Club Office, seeing what the various people in each department do every day. There we were briefed by each of the department heads for Club Racing, Rally, Solo, Pro Racing and Risk Management so that we could get up to speed on their activities. Then it was into the December ‘face to face’ BOD meeting with a fairly full agenda that was completed with a lot of hard work by all concerned – BOD members and the SCCA staff. The minutes and details will be published in Fastrack shortly.



The first order of business was a presentation of the Insurance Report from Pete Lyons. The bad news is that there will be a significant increase in premiums next year due to losses in Rally or Solo events. After years of no significant claims we had a couple of serious accidents at solo events with out of control cars, particularly in the finish areas. Safety Stewards will need all the participants help in ensuring safe events and compliance with the SCCA’s safety requirements, particularly in the finish line areas and with spectator control.



A report on the Street Survival program was given by Larry Dent and it was very positive. The Street Survival prototype events run this year (8 in all) proved that the events are practical and positive, with favorable impact on both regions and the community at large. The national program will be kicked off at the convention and I urge you all to attend if possible. Larry has been directly involved in two of these events, is Chairman of the SCCA Foundation and will be writing “Street Survival For Dummies” sort of paper in the coming weeks. It’s an exciting program and I urge every region to try to run one next year.



Next came the budget report and it came as a pleasant surprise – the Club (SCCA Inc.) will probably end up with a surplus in excess of $200,000 for 2007. Pro Racing will

probably end the year about even and Enterprises will be solidly in the black and repay more of their loan than planned. From the bleak picture a couple of years ago it appears that financial picture is reasonably good at the moment. We are down a bit on membership since the demise of the Subaru ‘free’ memberships and the Pro Rally department. There were some fee increases to cover increased costs, most notably the Appeal Fee went up to $175 from $125 and $100 retained by SCCA. This was to cover the extra costs of appeals expenses, especially duplicating video evidence to a usable format. We also didn’t make as much money off the Runoffs as the entry was down. – from less entry fees and from HPT’s payment to the Club.



We spent a fair bit of time discussing and approving the $10 compliance fee for Spec Miata. I think that there were concerns that the fees would go into the general fund with little competitor benefit as it did in some of the SRF years. However the Technical Staff is gearing up to produce compliance kits of checking tools and a part of the budget will be spent on training Tech Inspectors at the Club Office and in the field in addition to field trips. We really need the competitors to feel comfortable that cars are compliant at both Regional and National level and the only way to achieve it is with the local Tech Inspectors being better able to do their job.



There was some fairly heavy discussion on the current MazdaSpeed controversy at the end of the day. We know how important Mazda’s support is at Club level, so we had a meeting between all the parties at the PRI show and resolved the issues. We all decided to move on and nor rehash the detail of who said what. Mazda seemed pretty happy with the result and the procedural changes so that should prevent something like the MXR Classification issue happening again. Mazda and SCCA Pro announced that Playboy will sponsor the MX5 Cup so that a positive step.



The Runoffs was the main topic of discussion on Saturday. The Staff gave us the results of various surveys that were undertaken to find out why the event had lost both competitors and workers this year. Although all the surveys were not yet tabulated it certainly seems to come down to the fact that Topeka and Kansas is not seen as the best place to hold our Championship Event and even though the track has been improved since last year, it is not Runoffs quality. It’s a pity because we have a great track owner in Ray Irwin that has really tried to accommodate the Runoffs by improving the facilities and has spent a lot of time and money on it. We are committed to 2008, by contract, to Heartland Park but 2009 and beyond was discussed at great length. Most of the operational problems this year can be fixed for next year and hopefully the safety aspects of the place upgraded – I had to repair two heavy hits on our own FC from contact with unprotected concrete walls, I’m not sure why they don’t like tire walls there.

Beyond 2009, I don’t know. We asked Jim Julow and his staff to look at all the possible sites for the Runoffs with perhaps a change in the business model to make it more attractive. We have the option of staying at Heartland Park on a similar deal as today – but it’s in Kansas and our members are voting with their feet and not going. One theme that came through loud and clear is that we intend to make the Runoffs the Premier Road Racing event in this country.



Other than that, our Chairman, Bob Introne, has decided to step down and we elected our 2008 officers under the new Chairman RJ Gordy. Even though he’s from the wrong coast he seems knowledgeable and fair, he competed in Spec Racer for many years and as an ex-police officer will hopefully keep us all in line! I will be on the Budget and Finance committee as well as the Compensation Committee as part of the new appointments – after 10 years of CRB work I avoided the rules making liaison duties.



We finally finished up with a Conference Call on the 10th of December to tidy up some issues and deal with the GT3 Runoffs situation – they will now be allowed to compete at the Runoffs in 08 as the 25th class. GP will largely be assimilated into FP and HP as they did not even make the participation numbers. We have a contradiction in that the Runoffs schedules are having an adverse effect on the class structure – we may have too many classes but its not a problem at the National events, only when we have to fit 24-25 classes into 3 days at the Runoffs.



On a more serious note, I am going to try keep you all informed and justify your votes in the recent election. I want to put a buzz back into National Club Racing as that seems to be where our membership feels we have problems.



If you need to contact me the best way is by E-mail at [email protected] "

[tom_sprecher]

Not that is was previously low but I now have a different level of respect for Phil Creighton. This report and the level of transparency within are refreshing. It has also changed my opinion of the direction the Club is headed. With no intention of implying any past ineffectuality or disrespect to the other Area Directors past and present it appears if we could have a BoD comprised of people like this the SCCA could be on the road to a brighter future.

Where did the report come from?

[lateapex911]

Yup, that was refreshing.

Not a fan of the GT3 call though... they always seem to crumble, don't they?

[pballance]

Mr. Creighton emailed his report to the webmaster of www.teamtac.org which is a combined website for the Tennessee Valley Region, SCCA (Huntsville, Al) and the Twickenham Auto CLub which is an autox/rally club that began life in 1954 in Huntsville.

The website and forum is probably the most active in the southeast. Mr. Creighton emailed several of us asking for election support and passed on this report for publication. I thought I would share it over here.

Paul

[Cobrar05]

Can we start the campaign now to move the runoffs back to Road Atlanta where they belong?

VIR would be maybe the best option, but RA is where the heritage is and where the weather is great for October racing.

[SWSpiers]

Thanks for posting this. With Phil's permission, I posted it on the GT-racecar site as well. This is more info that we got from the former director during his entire reign.

As for the 25 class rule, hate the rule, not GT3. As a racer in GT3, we didn't realize we were close to the bubble until mid-July. Up until then, the West Coast numbers had us up in the 18th spot. Since West Coast ends National racing early, the numbers dropped faster than we could react. Classes like SSC and T3 were able to recruit people much more easily since the prep turn around time is much less than GT. In the case of SSC we saw guys with 10 year old Neons show up, borrowing brake pads (!) and tires to make the numbers. We heard some odd tricks with T3 as well, but they got the numbers. GT3 didn't have a central motivator, since we thought we were ok.

That said, if we don't make the top 24 in 2008, then we should risk being bumped for 2009. But, to lose out on the 2008 runoffs without adequate notice was a bit inequitable. SCCA added several classes without much member input, and against some.

If there is a GT3 class in National racing, then we should go to the runoffs. Solve the number of classes issue, but don't just obsolete expensive cars on short notice by pulling the invite. Besides, with the Runoffs participation numbers, you'd think they would do everything they can to keep participation up.

I'd love to see the runoffs at Road Atlanta or VIR, but the board seems to think it's too far east. Too bad. I guess we'll make the best of the VIR double National in April.

Steve

[Ron Earp]

it certainly seems to come down to the fact that Topeka and Kansas is not seen as the best place to hold our Championship Event

..... We have the option of staying at Heartland Park on a similar deal as today – but it’s in Kansas and our members are voting with their feet and not going. One theme that came through loud and clear is that we intend to make the Runoffs the Premier Road Racing event in this country.
[/b]

Very nice to see a refreshing dose of realism. Maybe we're not in Kansas anymore....

[Cobrar05]

I would argue with the too far east. HP is not too far east and is a failure. In part because its not close enough to any major population center and therefore a long haul for everybody. In part because the race track is not loved enough for teams/entries to haul a long distance to race there. In part because October in Kansas is not friendly.

Road Atlanta is all of that.

A compromize might be to find a companion date out west and rotate the runoffs and the arrc between the east and west venues.

I will offer one other suggestion that might attract people from the east and west coast to make a long haul.

Make a pitch to Tony George for Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the Runoffs. If the idea is to make, "the Premier Road Racing event in this country", that has IMS written all over it. It can't hurt to ask.

In the end, I still say Road Atlanta.

[jmark]

Great to see this info out in the open. It needs to be posted here as well.

http://prodracing.com/prodcar/index.php

and here

http://sccaforums.com/Default.aspx

[Chris Wire]

Make a pitch to Tony George for Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the Runoffs. If the idea is to make, "the Premier Road Racing event in this country", that has IMS written all over it. It can't hurt to ask.
[/b]

This is the ultimate scenario and has been discussed before.

No advantage to anyone since there would be no races there during the season. Indy is well capable of handling the influx of competitors from what I here. Another source of easy income for Tony now that Bernie has thumbed his nose at the US.

And I would argue more centrally located by population of SCCA members, if not geographically.

[Cobrar05]

October in a central location is tough to make work. The weather can really be touch and go. The best central locations are even further north. Mid Ohio and Road America. Same could be said of Watkins Glen.

I raced at VIR in late October this season and it was pretty miserable.

I also realize that there are few tracks that are in the runoffs class. Topeka is not and part of the reason it doesn't work.

The event was at its strongest at Road Atlanta. I think for this kind of event to be as strong as it can be the track either needs to be a national championship track, Indianapolis Motor Speedway or Daytona International Speedway or it needs to be the next best thing someplace where people will participate.

Indy or Daytona. If they are not available, then Road Atlanta.

[JeffYoung]

I think it ought to be at CMP. World class nightlife in Camden.

And you guys think I am kidding. You need to experience, the Southern Farscape.

[tom_sprecher]

I think it ought to be at CMP. World class nightlife in Camden.

And you guys think I am kidding. You need to experience, the Southern Farscape.
[/b]

We've never been to Southern Farscape but that little dive bar in Kershaw got half of my team so wasted that while leaving they turned left and drove all the way to NC before realizing it. And the patrons, holy crap! This one ugly road whore took one of the shots I was buying the guys from right in front of me while I was paying and downed it. I've never hit a women before but that one came close to being the first.

[Matt Rowe]

Indy? Are you kidding. They can not handle the paddock space required and the course is not suited to most of the classes in SCCA. You guys in the northeast already complain about Pocono and you think the longest flatout stretch for F1 cars is going to be fun?

Finally, while the runoffs are smaller if the hotels in the area apply only half of their markup for a other race weekends that still means $40 rooms going for $100 a night. No thanks.

[Ron Earp]

VIR is typically quite nice in October and November. In the years of going up there more often than not I'm in short sleeves on the weekend. With the exception of the 2006 13 Hour in November it is been good weather.

As for the October race, well, Friday was wet but he rest of the weekend was gorgeous. What problems did you have with the Goblin's Go in October?

CMP is right on, good place.

[JeffYoung]

Tom, we use Southern Farscape to refer to the entire area. It cracks me up that place. Kershaw has what, 5,000 people, Camden 30,000 and Lugoff another 5,000.

Despite that, we've noticed the following:

1. You never have any trouble getting a cab in Camden. As easy as Manhattan. Well, not that easy, but damn close.

2. The cab drivers know where all the bars are, including teh "after hours" clubs that serve liquor until 4 a.m. on Saturday/Sunday morning, and are full of the Camden upper crust. I kid you not. One of them, I can't remember the name of the damn place, is in an abandoned strip mall north of town and actually has one of those "speakeasy" doors.

3. Only place that one of our racing group was greeted at the bar by a middle age woman who remarked, "Son, I've got underwear older than you."

4. There are a set number of bars. There are a set number of men and women. Draw the venn diagram. You see the same people at the same bars year after year. There's the town skank (a Dupont no less, or claims to be), Priscilla Queen of the Farscape, Machine Gunn Tommy...etc...etc....

5. The bar on the highway to Lugoff. Dark wood paneling. Huge rednecks. DJ with rap music. Women the size of humpback whales dancing on the bar at closing time, flashing their breast like appendages and demanding money for doing so. True story.

6. Readily available "company for the evening, for cheap!" or so we are told by the cab drivers who invariably drive us back to the hotels in Lugoff

For all of the reasons set forth above, and for others that can't be mentioned on a family forum, CMP would be the perfect place for the Runoffs. Bring it on SCCA! Camden is waiting!

[lateapex911]

Jeff, you have missed your calling with your career choice in the legal profession....with the writers stike continuing, perhaps now is the time to try the sit com market in Hollyweird?

[Parrish57]

I love the idea of moving the runoffs to Indy! The newest track configuration, still under construction, is being built for the Moto GP guys. It favors SCCA cars as well. No longer a concern about the long F1 front straight. Check it out![attachmentid=1274]

[Matt Rowe]

I love the idea of moving the runoffs to Indy! The newest track configuration, still under construction, is being built for the Moto GP guys. It favors SCCA cars as well. No longer a concern about the long F1 front straight. Check it out![attachmentid=1274]
[/b]
Very interesting. I hadn't seen the new layout but it still doesn't solve the paddock issue or the price gouging question.

[Gary L]

Very interesting. I hadn't seen the new layout but it still doesn't solve the paddock issue or the price gouging question. [/b] And oh, by the way... during the month of October, Indy is statistically even colder than Topeka. :snow_cool:

[lateapex911]

If they moved the Runoffs to Indy (No way in hell will THAT ever happen, sadly), I would get my ass in a National class faster than you can say "Indianapolis, world capitol of motor racing".

Man, just riding down that straight in a Ford E150 Econoline van gave me goosebumps.

And I bet I am not alone.

You'd see the largest Runoffs ever, and nobody would complain about anything. (well, except a couple old crumudgeons...)

[Chris Wire]

Very interesting. I hadn't seen the new layout but it still doesn't solve the paddock issue or the price gouging question.
[/b]

You'll never "solve" a price-gouging problem, since we don't live in Communist China. It's called capitalism. You solve it by where you spend your money. It's why I might drive farther to the track than I would like, and it's why my kids don't get $1200 from me for Hannah Montana concert tickets. :026:

And Indy has no monopoly on raising prices during high demand seasons. Every golf course in Florida does it during the winter, and have you seen the prices for hotel rooms during Speed Weeks?

[Matt Rowe]

Man, just riding down that straight in a Ford E150 Econoline van gave me goosebumps.

And I bet I am not alone.[/b]
You probably aren't alone, but I don't see it. Sure the "oval" has history and is something to experience but after 1.5 touring laps I was past the nostalgia. The old road course had a very brief history with F1 but we wouldn't even get that, we would have the new course and rarely do I see people start to get all misty talking about racing on the same track as, as, as??? Say who is a famous Moto GP rider? Seriously racing at the same location is not the same as racing on a historic track and unless you want to run an oval in a formula car Indy does nothing for me. I race SCCA because I like turning both ways and trying to sell Indy to us based on the idea of it's history will not ring true to the people who will complain. Which brings me to


You'd see the largest Runoffs ever, and nobody would complain about anything. (well, except a couple old crumudgeons...)
[/b]
Oh come on Jake, you know better than that. Only a couple of old curmudgeons. First you'll have some of the West coast complaing it's still not close. Than people will complain about the paddock space sizes, reservation process, distance to showers, etc. Than the complaints about fess, practice time, track time, their response crews. In the end a vocal group won't be happy and they won't be satisfied by the idea that "it uses part of the brickyard."



You'll never "solve" a price-gouging problem, since we don't live in Communist China. It's called capitalism. You solve it by where you spend your money. [/b]
I agree but there are areas that are worse than others and Indy is pretty high on the list. Therefore you don't spend money there. It's the decision we made after faithfully attending the first 4 years of F1 at Indy. When the 2 nights stay at a fleabag motel an hour from the track cost more than the tickets, gas and parking it was time to vote with my wallet.

But getting back to Jake's statement that it will never happen I have to agree. I positively can not see Indy buying into anything close to the current business model for the runoffs and I think it will be impossible to change the model to acocunt for the costs of Indy without doubling (as if only) the fees paid by the racers.

It's a nice fantasy (for some) but it is just wishful thinking. The more productive thing to focus on is not deciding where we wish it was but to make sure the next RFP is written so that tracks want to host the event rather than having a choice between 2 or 3 tracks throughout the country.

[gran racing]

I'd complain that we're using a roval for the "US Road Racing Championships," and even though the banking is kinda interesting the track has no hills.

[RSTPerformance]

If they moved the Runoffs to Indy (No way in hell will THAT ever happen, sadly), I would get my ass in a National class faster than you can say "Indianapolis, world capitol of motor racing".

Man, just riding down that straight in a Ford E150 Econoline van gave me goosebumps.

And I bet I am not alone.

You'd see the largest Runoffs ever, and nobody would complain about anything. (well, except a couple old crumudgeons...)
[/b]

Add three more entries to the list :)

First Class facility and no other opportunity to race other than running the season and qualifying for the event, add three more entries to the list :)!!!

I have never been, but a track that big, I don't see how parking would be an issue... Ok maybe we need to take out a few greens ;) http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time...5&t=h&z=15&om=1 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Indianapolis+Motor+Speedway,+United+States&sll=31.203405,-91.582031&sspn=69.94812,71.367188&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=0,39.798445,-86.234710&ll=39.795249,-86.231475&spn=0.016322,0.028925&t=h&z=15&om=1)

[Matt Rowe]

Raymond, I've been there and parking would be an issue, especially when they already have a good portion of the paved areas filled with track vehicles and such. And the facilities are not what I would call first class, at least not beyond the F1 garage stalls and some of the indy/nascar space.

I think the turnout would be great the first year, and then the whining and moaning would start. And Tony isn't going to bend over backward for a bunch of amateur racers with no widely marketable product. So we end back where we are, at a course that people will say isn't really championship caliber (I hadn't even mentioned the flat as a table elevation) in the a place that has potentially miserable weather (they almost needed snow tires for the F1 guys one year). No thanks, I'm sick and tired of listening to the complaints about HPT and don't want to go through another 3 years with the next track. If/when we go somewhere else it shouldn't be to trade one venue for another and still end up bitching about the course and the venue for the same reasons plus some new ones.

[Cobrar05]

And so, we are back to Road Atlanta.

[Matt Rowe]

And so, we are back to Road Atlanta.
[/b]

Road Atlanta, Road America, they are both more centrally located to the driving population than HPT. And with the added benefit that you dont have to convince your coworkers or non racing friends that the Indy they see on TV is not the same track you raced but really it's still cool. :023:

[Cobrar05]

Road America would be great if the Runoffs were in July. Mid to late October might be more like a snowmobile race, eh?

[Anubis]

And so, we are back to Road Atlanta.
[/b]

Have you ever been there for the Mitty? If not I'd highly suggest you go and see just how packed things are with 400 or so cars and a upwards of a few thousand fans. It ain't pretty, there is no way in hell Road Atlanta is ready for the car levels would bring in much less amount of workers it will take to make it happen. Room for tech is not there, there are 2 showers on both sides which means workers showering throughout the night, getting cars to grid would be an absolute nightmare plus time of year is not great. Many of us take from 16-32 hours of work for Petit, don't know how many could swing that amount a couple of weeks prior. Personally as much as I would love to have the Runoffs at Road Atlanta unless some pretty big things are done its just not feasible at this time. Give them a year to figure it out and they are willing to spend $ we'll see. I think VIR would be the best choice at this time and yes the weather can get bad sometimes, sometimes it can be good, sometimes it can be great and sometimes you'll 3 different conditions in the same day. It is what it is, so be it. Hell, Mid-O had SNOW during the Runoffs.

[Ron Earp]

VIR is a great place for the runoffs. In the years I've been up there in October and November the weather has been quite good. Yes, the Friday that Cobrar05 was up at VIR for the Goblins Go it was wet, but the actual race weekend was beautiful. More often than not I'm in short sleeves at VIR in the late Fall. All the 13 Hour Enduros in November have been clear, although 06 was cold, 04,05, and 07 were extremely nice. Weather at VIR in October and November is typically good and Road Atlanta isn't going to improve on the weather situation.

Mid-Ohio is/was a good place for the runoffs too but VIR should do slightly better than Ohio on the weather in the October/November time frame.

Bottom line is damn near anywhere is better for the runoffs than Topeka KS.

[Cobrar05]

VIR is arguably the finest road course in the country. It is the closest track to where I live. I would support VIR. :)

[Chris Wire]

Since I don't have a dog in this hunt I can say this and let you guys decide how crazy I sound.

After watching most of the telecasts of this year's Runoffs, I have to say that the racing at HPT is a better show and more entertaining to watch than what I saw coming from MO. While MO may be a great facility, it ends up being a fairly boring race to watch with essentially one good passing zone and two marginal ones. The rest is just follow the leader. I'd say that the layout at HPT easily doubles that number and it shows on TV. Now whatever other beefs there are about racing there; safety-related, the surrounding area, etc., it seems those issues could be worked out to some degree. But don't ruin the racing in favor of better facilities or more hotel rooms. Hell, you go to the Runoffs to race, don't you?

It seems that the natural inclination here seems to be moving it east. I think the club extends to both coasts right? I can't in my right mind see more people attending from the west coast if it were held at RA, VIR, Barber, Daytona, etc. Those places all add an additional thousand miles or more to anyone towing from west of the Rockies. Don't see it happening.

[JoshS]

But don't ruin the racing in favor of better facilities or more hotel rooms. Hell, you go to the Runoffs to race, don't you?
[/b]

Topeka has MUCH better hotels, and many more rooms, than the area around Mid-Ohio. Of all of the issues with Heartland Park, two of them should NOT be hotels or restaurants.



It seems that the natural inclination here seems to be moving it east. I think the club extends to both coasts right? I can't in my right mind see more people attending from the west coast if it were held at RA, VIR, Barber, Daytona, etc. Those places all add an additional thousand miles or more to anyone towing from west of the Rockies. Don't see it happening.
[/b]

Thanks for the thought! All of you who live around the corner from some coastal track, thinking about how great it would be -- would YOU go if we chose Laguna Seca?

But this conversation happens over and over again, and the last time it happened on this forum, Stan Clayton (pretty sure it was Stan) posted a map that showed the track locations on a US Census population density map, and it was pretty clear that the right thing was something east of Topeka (but not all the way to a coast). Actually, it seemed like there couldn't be a better location to serve more people with shorter tows than Mid-Ohio.

[JeffYoung]

Is there some structural reason that the Runoffs can't rotate around the country?

[gran racing]

I'd love to see it rotate among at least a couple of tracks.

[Cobrar05]

Is there some structural reason that the Runoffs can't rotate around the country?
[/b]

Yea, there is a reason. Race dates are very tight. A track of runoffs quality has no available dates particularly in prime weather. They remain with the same racing groups for years and years. This year's calender at Road Atlanta looks just like last year's and next.

So, its not practical to have a good date at a good track for just a one year thing.

I suggested rotating the ARRC and the Runoffs between two tracks so that the SCCA could get and control two good dates and just rotate the event that way. But that is the only way.

[lateapex911]

The Runoffs are a difficlut event for a track.

1- Huge paddock needs. 600 cars, and larger than average (national or regional) transporters.
2- More workers, and the attendant motorhomes and camping needs
3- Television support. SPEED needs to be on board and hae a plae for the equipemnt trucks and cameras, etc.
4- Local hotels and support
5- Time. it's a long freakin event, so the track will need a week of open time.

Every time the "Bids" go out from SCCA, only 2 or 3 tracks even respond.

And those that do insist on multi year contracts to make it worth the efort.

I'd agree that the racing at HPT is much better this year. And thats an important issue. We need raceable tracks, where passes can be made in sevaral spots. It makes for much better TV, and that makes for better marketing of the club. It's our only time on TV, we need to put on a great show.

While Indy might have issues, it is still such an icon that many things could be overlooked, and the story line on TV would be great. But Tony George will have zero interest. It would be too much hassle for too little profit for him. He cares about money.

[Matt Rowe]

But this conversation happens over and over again, and the last time it happened on this forum, Stan Clayton (pretty sure it was Stan) posted a map that showed the track locations on a US Census population density map, and it was pretty clear that the right thing was something east of Topeka (but not all the way to a coast). Actually, it seemed like there couldn't be a better location to serve more people with shorter tows than Mid-Ohio.[/b]
It was Stan and I remember the map. I did a more in depth study last month and basically plotted the location of EVERY licensed driver and calculated the distance from the official residence to several tracks. That's why I reference above certain tracks as being the shorest average distance, I'm not guessing, I know what's closest.

For reference here is the google map that came out of this.

http://www.pahillclimb.org/images/distribution_sm.jpg

[Ron Earp]

Here is the same map with a couple of other tracks added in. CMP and Summit can't support a runoff type event, but VIR certainly can. And, VIR is well located according to the population centers.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/map.jpg

This thing should be able to rotate around. But I suppose it doesn't matter to any of us, we're all just a bunch of second class regional racers huh?

[JoshS]

It was Stan and I remember the map. I did a more in depth study last month and basically plotted the location of EVERY licensed driver and calculated the distance from the official residence to several tracks. That's why I reference above certain tracks as being the shorest average distance, I'm not guessing, I know what's closest.
[/b]

Cool. I'd love to see it colored like the map that Stan used, because it's hard to tell density with a bunch of individual dots.

So since you've done it -- where is the geographical "center" of the licensed racer population?

[Ron Earp]

So since you've done it -- where is the geographical "center" of the licensed racer population?
[/b]

Good question - national or regional? Active?

I bet it'd fall a long way from Topeka KS though!!!!!

[JeffYoung]

CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP!

[Ron Earp]

CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP! CMP!
[/b]

If they go there on a national race can we open a "Farscape Tour Guide" booth for newbies? We could make some cash to cover the Brew n Cue, Mexican Death, Fox n' Hound, Brown Trailer, and Skank bills.

[JeffYoung]

I'll be more than happy to give anyone a tour if they pick up the bar tab.

[Ron Earp]

I'll be more than happy to give anyone a tour if they pick up the bar tab.
[/b]

They need to cover some extras.

I was scairt when that chick got hot that Neil and I didn't pay to see her ta tas, although they were completely unsolicited from our side. I was also worried when I figured out the the bar chick owned underwear that was at least 37 years old. Mine don't last that long. Voodoo. It worries me.

[Matt Rowe]

The map shows both national and regional licenses and actually includes novice permits and vintage licenses but no matter who you include the distribution really doesn't change. The only real difference is the vintage crowd is closer to Laguna Seca. Oh, and the list was every active license holder as of 11/22/07.

I didn't calculate the center of the population each track/driver combination is calculated independantly and then the average straightline distance is calculated. What it shows is in shortest to longest for current National and Regional drivers in miles:

Indy - 869
Mid Ohio - 892
Road Atlanta - 921
VIR - 947
Road America - 951
HPT - 968
Watkins Glen - 1024
Laguna Seca - 1755

[JoshS]

How hard would it be to get and average all of the latitudes and longitudes?

[gran racing]

I'm beginning to wonder if HTP is really that bad for the Runoffs. I didn't like it at first, but am slowly warming up to it (then again, I won't be racing there). It is in a central location - hopefully we won't lose sight of how far away an East Coast track is for the large CA regions. In watching a couple of the races, I actually found it to be more interesting to watch than Mid Ohio. As many have already stated, Mid Ohio is a nice track but there are so few passing opportunites. Based on everything else I've heard, HTP has also been accomodating to SCCA.

[DavidM]

Jeff, you ain't right. Nobody should know that much about the Camden, Kershaw, Lancaster tri-city metro-plex. :D Going to Wal-mart in Lancaster tells me all I need to know.

I think the Indy "road course" is horrible. I sure hope SCCA doesn't go there. Not that it matters to me since IT isn't a national class. :rolleyes:

David

[JeffYoung]

Dude, you know me well enough to know i ain't right! I race a Triumph in IT for god's sake!

It's the Camden-Lugoff metroplex by the way. Kershaw/Lancaster is a whole different breed.

Yeah, a lot of this discussion is academic. Our runoffs is at Road Atlanta and our baby Runoffs is at MidOhio. I like that.