Palmer Motorsports Park gains local approval

[dickita15]

The Palmer Ma Planning Board voted 5-0 last night to approve a Special Permit and Site Plan Review to build a 2.14 mile race track on a 500 acres parcel as proposed by NER Investments LLC.

This follows the previous approval by the Palmer Conservation Commission.

The final approval needed is a State MEPA (Mass Environmental Protection Act) Environmental Impact Report approval which is a detailed filing documenting the facilities compliance with environmental regulations. This is a three stage process of which the first stage has been approved.

NER Investments LLC was created by NER SCCA specifically for the purpose of building this facility. It was created to allow the opportunity for other clubs and enthusiasts an opportunity to invest is this new club racing facility. In the end NER SCCA will remain a minority owner.

[JLawton]

That's great news Dick, thanks for the update.

Hows the financial side coming? I suppose I still can't buy in with $500, uh?

[dickita15]

Thanks Jeff. I am certainly feeling relieved.

It looks like we have about two thirds of the investors penciled in but I am afraid the minimum investment is $250,000. There is a small chance that minimum could be lowered but I do not think your $500 will do it.

Of course on the up side the track makes money for the investors, gives some pretty good tax advantages and has some perks, besides what could be cooler than being an owner of the first new racetrack in New England in 45 years.

[gran racing]

Very, very, very cool! You guys/gals are starting to see all of the hard work you've put into this track effort come together. Just wait for the ground breaking day and then the first event. Wahooo!

[benspeed]

Way to go Dick and all the folks working on making Palmer a reality - and a big rousing razberry to the naysayers!

[StephF]

:biggrinsanta:
Big, BIG present to all of us!
Thank you everyone who busted your butts to make it happen!
:026:
Woo-Hoo!

[RacerBill]

Going to have to get the old tow-horse ready for a trip to New England for the first race on the new track!

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you guys. Would love to make it a two race weekend trip!

Dick, and everyone else who worked on this project ------GREAT WORK! Thanks.

[JohnRW]

We (not "we" IT.com folks, but "we", every Club member inside and outside of NER) need to appreciate the magnitude of hard work and and ground softening and gyrations that Dick, the LLC and NER have gone thru just to get this project to this point. When they pull it off and open the gates (even though there are still a bunch of "ifs" that will try to bite "when" in the ass), we're ALL going to owe these people a lot...thanks, support, beer, twinkies, support, thanks and thanks.

Bravo. Keep at it, Dick.

[Doc Bro]

Dick et al.,

Thanks for the hard effort to make racing in the Northeast better for all. We should vote unanimously to name the Palmer Motorsports Park main grandstands in your honor. :D ;)

R

[Jeremy Billiel]

Dick et al.,

Thanks for the hard effort to make racing in the Northeast better for all. We should vote unanimously to name the Palmer Motorsports Park main grandstands in your honor. :D ;)

R
[/b]

There will be no grandstands, but I am sure we can come up with something like "Patullo's Pass" or something for a corner or straight-away.

With this permit we can breathe a little easier, but we are still have quite a bit of work ahead of us! If anyone knows of anyone who may be interested in investing in Palmer Motorsports Park, please let Dick or I know.

[gsbaker]

If anyone knows of anyone who may be interested in investing in Palmer Motorsports Park, please let Dick or I know.[/b]
Contact these folks: Genoa (http://www.genoamotorsports.com/). They are going through the same process and their investors may have an interest.

Ask for Kevin. Tell him I sent you.

[Doc Bro]

There will be no grandstands, [/b]


And there in lied the humor.....

R

[lateapex911]

You are a cruel man Dr Bro....
oh..that's right... a drill, an open mouth..another fun day for you!

;)

[Magical Trevor]

There will be no grandstands...[/b]

Now come on Jeremy, I think every proper sporting facility should have some sort of fixed seating arrangement...
Let's stick a solitary folding chair to one of those cliffsides that'll be excavated. :035:

[Doc Bro]

You are a cruel man Dr Bro....
oh..that's right... a drill, an open mouth..another fun day for you!

;)
[/b]


That's not the cruelist of my humor. That's normally reserved for only the closest of friends. :D

The grandstand joke goes back to that old saying " a pat on the back is only a foot away from a shoe in the a$$"

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

That's not the cruelist of my humor. That's normally reserved for only the closest of friends. :D

[/b]

+1.... :)

[RacerBill]

That's not the cruelist of my humor. That's normally reserved for only the closest of friends. :D

The grandstand joke goes back to that old saying " a pat on the back is only a foot away from a shoe in the a$$"

R
[/b]

Does he shows 'Marathon Man' at parties???????? :lol: :lol:

[Doc Bro]

Does he shows 'Marathon Man' at parties???????? :lol: :lol:
[/b]


I'm so pathetic, I've never seen Marathon Man. I've heard about it many times, but never saw it...not even "the scene".

That movie did for Dentistry what Jaws did for the shark....

R

[jinxcrx]

Great news Dick!

I promise to be at opening day!

Jinx

[Greg Amy]

That movie did for Dentistry what Jaws did for the shark....[/b]
Huh. I thought that was "Little Shop of Horrors" Part Deaux... "C'mon, son, be a de-entist! You have a talent for causing things PAIN! ..."

Uh, um, sorry. I get carried away some times....

[RSTPerformance]

Thanks for the update Dick, its great to see hard work pay off!!!

When should we start sending over our used tires to your house for tire walls that I hope never to visit ;) !!!

Raymond :)

[Doc Bro]

Huh. I thought that was "Little Shop of Horrors" Part Deaux... "[/b]

Can't say I saw that one either....I know, I know..

R

[Tkczecheredflag]

Here's a thought. I don't have the "250 large" to be a major investor but, like Jeff L, I would like to "help" make Palmer happen. I suspect that NER Investment, LLC might be interested in taking "contributions", with no ownership attached, to further it's efforts - Am I wrong about this Dick?

It would be a really great "grassroots" effort if we, (guys and girls like me), could contribute to the "Palmer Campaign". What do people think about making contributions for the facility without ownership? If this was a possibility, it might be worthwhile setting up a "link" to make a contribution via credit card on line. I would be willing to give back all of that NARRC money that's coming, to the Palmer Campaign. Someone once told me, "when you are building a racecar be mindful of your nuts and bolts - that's where all the weight comes from." What I am suggesting is, if we have a lot of "nuts and bolts" (the little pieces) we might end up with a fund that has too much weight - wouldn't that be great!

Maybe a credit card is too messy right now - how about a "pledge"? - We could pledge our support and send the money when all approvals are finalized - this might be easier for the treasurer.

Just a thought - what do you think?

[Jeremy Billiel]

Here's a thought. I don't have the "250 large" to be a major investor but, like Jeff L, I would like to "help" make Palmer happen. I suspect that NER Investment, LLC might be interested in taking "contributions", with no ownership attached, to further it's efforts - Am I wrong about this Dick?

It would be a really great "grassroots" effort if we, (guys and girls like me), could contribute to the "Palmer Campaign". What do people think about making contributions for the facility without ownership? If this was a possibility, it might be worthwhile setting up a "link" to make a contribution via credit card on line. I would be willing to give back all of that NARRC money that's coming, to the Palmer Campaign. Someone once told me, "when you are building a racecar be mindful of your nuts and bolts - that's where all the weight comes from." What I am suggesting is, if we have a lot of "nuts and bolts" (the little pieces) we might end up with a fund that has too much weight - wouldn't that be great!

Maybe a credit card is too messy right now - how about a "pledge"? - We could pledge our support and send the money when all approvals are finalized - this might be easier for the treasurer.

Just a thought - what do you think?
[/b]

Tim - That is a fantastic idea if people are willing to help the cause. As the one doing the books on this venture, I can setup a PayPal account and accept donations. I will talk with the accountants regarding accepting donations. I am unaware of any issues, but I will find out.

[JLawton]

As the one doing the books on this venture, I can setup a PayPal account and accept donations. [/b]


Do you now want to re-think your donation Tim?? :P

I hope he's better with numbers than he is with figuring out whose wife is whose!!! ;)

[lateapex911]

Jeff, touche'

Of course, he will respond with something like, "Hey, all I really NEED to know is who MY wife is...."

[Tkczecheredflag]

Jeff - We gotta let Jeremy off the hook - I beleive he was "courting" Carol for his own,
sponsor I mean :018: .

[JaxonMotorsports44]

I will support the "Palmer Campaign"... Let me know when it is set up.. Can we all get a bag of dirt from the ground breaking? :023:

[lateapex911]

So, Dick, i was talking with a fellow member yesterday about the track, and he hadn't seen any plans . Maybe you could post a scan of it for us, or a link? It's exciting to think that this is gaining momentum.

[dickita15]

[attachmentid=1238]This plan is a bit old, but it is the only small file I have right now. There are connector link so it can be cut into two small courses for schools. 2.14 miles, run in either direction, 185 feet of elevation change.

[lateapex911]

Cool, thanks! Question: What does the purple signify? areas to be excavated for the course? And I assume the lines on the course are elevation markers. What does each one represent, a foot?

[dickita15]

Purple is cut or fill. Basically grading in order to get back to natural grade although that has been reduced some with some retaining walls and other tweaking. Numbers on track are every 100 feet. Red lines are 10’ blue lines are 2 ‘.

[JS154]

Has it been determined if it will be a CW or CCW track?

What is the appx elevation change per lap?

Looks like fun! Thx for the hard work.

[lateapex911]

Looks like it can be run in either direction (I hope SCCA choses the direction that results in more braking at the end of a straight off a tricky corner so it races well) and it appears it's almost 200 feet up, and down. per lap.

For reference, what's Lime Rock, 40 or so? And Road Atlanta is about, (I'd guess, 80?)

So, very hilly in such a short run.


[attachmentid=1238]This plan is a bit old, but it is the only small file I have right now. There are connector link so it can be cut into two small courses for schools. 2.14 miles, run in either direction, 185 feet of elevation change. [/b]

[Jeremy Billiel]

Has it been determined if it will be a CW or CCW track?

What is the appx elevation change per lap?

Looks like fun! Thx for the hard work.
[/b]

The track is intended to go clockwise. The elevation will be very fun... That's all I will say! :P

[dickita15]

The track is intended to go clockwise. The elevation will be very fun... That's all I will say! :P
[/b]
Jake is right, the grades have been kept to a level that it should be able to run in both directions.

[lateapex911]

Just for reference, I checked, and Road Atlanta is 2.45 miles, (About a mile longer than Lime Rock), and has elevation changes of about 80 -90 feet, according to the topographical map I found.

So, this track, which is a bit shorter then RA will have twice teh elevation changes. Hilly indeed.

When do the bulldozers roll?! I want to be there for the opening "Dozer day!"

[gran racing]

I did comment how I really hoped it had hills. Awesome!!!

[Jeremy Billiel]

I did comment how I really hoped it had hills. Awesome!!!
[/b]

When you walk the property you really get an idea of the flow of the track and I must say that it will be fun. Lots of elevation changes with fast and slower sections.

[gran racing]

Haven't heard any updates in quite a while now. How are things progressing (hopefully it still is)? What's left before ground breaking can begin? Any idea when it will be up and running? I really hope this track is still moving forward.

[dtanthon]

Been quiet, any news?:shrug:

[mossaidis]

As of Oct 2008, 'We are working with a major investor and builder and final approval is imminent. No construction yet. ' I don't know much more than that.

Also, check out: http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23056&page=2

[Greg Amy]

There was a big game-changing announcement at the annual meeting yesterday. I'll let Dick Patullo get home this afternoon to offer the details (they had a Board meeting today and are all on their way home now), but as I understand it the track's been sold to a single investor. NER retains rights to a specific number of muffled and unmuffled days. This, of course, is all rumor and innuendo, because I wasn't there to hear it first hand.

Like I said, let's wait for Dick for the gory details. But, it's well and truly moving along...

[Ed Funk]

Announced last night at the meeting---all good news!:happy204: Dick and multiple other folks did many years of hard work, and it paid off! Major investor, recognizable name, better track than originally envisioned! WOO-HOO!

On a slightly related note, at the Comp Board meeting today, Cathy Barnes suggested that Mr. Patullo be given a lavender T-shirt at the April Drivers School, labeled "Dick Instructor":D For such a serious lady, she can be a grin!

THANKS Dick and all others who have worked so hard!

[dickita15]

Like I said, let's wait for Dick for the gory details. But, it's well and truly moving along...
The 16 people in the region (the region’s board and NER investments LLC’s board) who know the details of the contracts are bound by the terms of the contracts not to discuss the details at this time other than an exception to report to the membership which I did yesterday with reasonable detail and that report will be printed in Pit Talk as well.
However nothing prevents any member who heard the report from discussing it.
I will say people seemed pretty happy. I couldn’t but a drink all night.:smilie_pokal:

[ulfelder]

The name of this track ought to be Patullo Motorsports Park. You are the man, Dick, and I hope you know we all realize it! :happy204:

Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

[Andy Bettencourt]

OK, so let's name something after him.

Big Bend could be 'Dick Bend'
Any hairpin could be the 'Dick-hair-pin'
Any LONG straight could be 'Dick Straight'
Cork Screws could be 'Dick Screw'

Oh yes, this track is gonna be fun.

[Greg Amy]

OK, so let's name something after him.
One of my favorite corners of all time (and a very difficult one to get right) is "The Bitch" at Hallett Motor Speedway. So, let's name the most difficult corner at Palmer after Mr Patullo appropriately... ;)

Well done, my friend. I think you can plan on leaving your own beer at home each time we're at Palmer.

GA

[dickita15]

Bruce Allen had the best line so far, he said it should not be a corner at all, it should be a long, seemingly endless and sometimes bumpy uphill straight.

However NER’s deal does not include naming rights. :shrug:

[dickita15]

I think you can plan on leaving your own beer at home each time we're at Palmer.

GA

just when we are at Palmer?:D

[Greg Amy]

just when we are at Palmer?:D
I love ya, Dick, but my gargantuan gratitude can only go so far... ;)

Are you still "involved" in planning and such going forward, or are you pulling the ripcord on your participation in the project?

[dickita15]

Understood Greg, I have always known you had limitations. :)
I am still representing NER’s interests in the project until the closing but the core investor is in the lead during the approvals of some small modifications to the approvals. Might be wrapped up by July.

[BruceG]

OK, so let's name something after him.

Big Bend could be 'Dick Bend'
Any hairpin could be the 'Dick-hair-pin'
Any LONG straight could be 'Dick Straight'
Cork Screws could be 'Dick Screw'

Oh yes, this track is gonna be fun.

We could call the straight "Dick Flatout"...ar,ar:dead_horse:

[StephF]

So what's up with Palmer?
No news is good news?
Any idea when a potential ground breaking will happen?

[BruceG]

Only first gen RX7's need apply..right Dick...LOL

[dickita15]

Actually things have been slow since February. Others cash flow caused the engineering to slow way down, however last month the taps were turned back on and 4 different companies are working again doing Civil engineering, environmental engineering, test bores and some exploratory excavation.
Current hopes are closing by 12/31 and racing by mid 2011.

[ner88]

Why worry about a new track? Without workers and racers what would we do with it?
Sorry, I just had to say it!

[Andy Bettencourt]

Why worry about a new track? Without workers and racers what would we do with it?
Sorry, I just had to say it!

If you only had one or two weekends at every track, then you would have workers AND racers!

Sorry, I just had to say it! :)

2 at NHMS
2 at LRP
2 at Palmer

Then add the 'other tracks'

2 at NJMP (1 at TB and 1 at Lightning)
1 at WGI
1 at Pocono

10 weekends, more tracks.

[ner88]

Andy, in your circle, drivers are willing and can afford to travel.
There are at leaset an equal amount that for many reasons stay local.
Are you saying race weekends/events or NARRC races?
If you are asking each region to only run two events, I don't see it happening.

[StephF]

Why worry about a new track? Without workers and racers what would we do with it?
Sorry, I just had to say it!

LRP: On the verge of no longer being affordable. May go away.
NHMS: Not as user friendly to us since it was sold, could also go away as far as SCCA is concerned.

Where we are in western MA, about 30 minutes from Palmer, it's like this:
LRP 1.5 hour tow
NHMS: 1.75 hour tow
NJMP: 8 hour tow
Pocono: 6 hour tow
Watkins Glen: 7 hour tow

Lots of people can't or don't want to travel such long distances to race or work.
THAT'S why we need to worry about a new track now before we lose them. And I can see a time when LRP is no longer an option.
We lose the two tracks, we no longer have a 'home track' here in New England. No matter how many events there may be, losing your area's track will not be a good thing for the region.

[ner88]

NHMS likes SCCA, with a new road course possibly in the future we could have lots of dates available. I understand we have been going thru some construction issues this year but they are certainly more user friendly than most tracks I'm aware of and priced very reasonably. What other track offers a full test and tune day for $150.?
LRP will always be there and if NER dosen't run an event someother region will for sure as long as racers go. NER's best attanded event so far this year was LRP.
If, sorry, when Palmer is up and running what then? If you read this forum all I hear is there are too many races now!

[gran racing]

You choose to host events at the tracks that racers and workers like the most, and ones that do decent for the region.

[Andy Bettencourt]

You have fewer races at more tracks Jerry. Maybe that would be what racers want.

But your guys keep doing what you are doing. Keep risking the fiscal health of your Region just to 'keep dates'. Ignore a smaller series like Pro IT that only has 8 races at a ton of tracks and its' popularity. All the Regions keep putting on their events and barely get by. No problem.

Just don't expect any new suggestions when we wonder why the RAL weekend has 62 cars registered only 2 weeks away. It's ok, really.

Slim down NERRC, strategically place NARRC races (slimmed down as well), slim down everything and work together to decrease supply and increase value.

It has to be a team effort.

[BruceG]

It seems like alot of us are closest to LRP, NHMS and Palmer when it happens. For me in southern VT, LRP and NHMS are about the same drive and Palmer would be the closest by 1 hr.

WJ is at least an hour plus more for me than the above tracks....and NJMP and Pocono are beyond my budget and desire to drive at...just sayin' in MHO.

[ner88]

I'm all for fewer date but if we cut back there is no guarantee that other regions/tracks will do the same.
Cut back NARRC to one event at each track is fine with me too.
I like the PRO IT but financially it's a looser for any region, it's a great supplement to a National but not worth giving up track time at a regional

[Doc Bro]

Dump Pocono. We only keep it for regional politics anyway.

R

[dickita15]

You have fewer races at more tracks Jerry. Maybe that would be what racers want.

But your guys keep doing what you are doing. Keep risking the fiscal health of your Region just to 'keep dates'. Ignore a smaller series like Pro IT that only has 8 races at a ton of tracks and its' popularity. All the Regions keep putting on their events and barely get by. No problem.

Just don't expect any new suggestions when we wonder why the RAL weekend has 62 cars registered only 2 weeks away. It's ok, really.

Slim down NERRC, strategically place NARRC races (slimmed down as well), slim down everything and work together to decrease supply and increase value.

It has to be a team effort.

We have to remember to look at these from different people’s point of view. There are plenty of racers who just race at NHMS for instance and race most all of those races just as there are racers who just run Summit.
The Pro It has been very popular with its driver base but you must remember you are only talking about 40 drivers who follow the series compared with 700-900 that run a Narrc race in a given year.
We need to keep a lot of different agendas in mind when you craft a master plan.
IMO the RAL date would be much better attended if it was just 2 weeks earlier.

[lateapex911]

Dump Pocono. We only keep it for regional politics anyway.

R

The only time I've been there since 97 was last year when I decided to go after the NARRC championship. I hate the track, the food, (usually the weather too, LOL) and I'm no fan of the area. The people were nice. But I'll only go back if I decide to go for a NARRC Championship again. I'd LOVE it if it wasn't on the NARRC schedule if and when I get the Championship urge again. (Next car)

[Robert Zecca]

Guys,

I have been reading this thread and try to bite my tongue. I think many of you are finally getting it. We do need to make changes for 2010 and we need to get together at the upcoming Mini Con to make these changes. Too bad it has to be so far away for most of us.

The bottom line is so far in 2009 the begining of the year has been very weak for events and this turned mid year. We have seen great events at the Glen, Lime Rock, NJMP, Pocono and almost everywhere was a money maker....finally....even MOHUD made money at LRP due to thinking outside of the box on behalf of Jack Hanifan. We need to work as SCCA MEMBERS and not SCCA REGIONS. This is how I have committed myself this year to all regions and members and not just to my regions. I hate reading about things like region politics.... this is bs....I want to see everyone get together and work together. Freedom of speech works but we now need some type of leadership to ensure that the positive strides we have made in 2009 continue into 2010.

Regarding Palmer I really do not know what to say. If it does come to fruition it will be survival of the fittest and due to its location being so far north it will pull mostly from the NE. Palmer will need deep pockets to get thru the next three years. Just ask NJMP. LRP will survive as will NHMS and Pocono. If this track does happen then we need more workers to support all these tracks. ANY IDEAS? We are already at a shortage.

I hope that we can get together soon as members to work on these problems. It is just not about racing but a much bigger picture.

Hope to see most of you at NJMP this weekend. We have close to 190 cars for the regional and the reason is this track has a great location and is finally starting to pull from the south. Who wants to run at a track where we only get 100-130 entries. Yeah you may make money but THIS IS NOT COMPETITION. Years ago when I raced I would drive thru the night to get to Charlotte or Mid Ohio or even fly to Road America or Sebring. I raced at 13 tracks and spent a wade of cash but at least I got to drive against more than 3 cars in a class.

The same can be done locally and make racing great again in the NE if we work together. Stay positive guys and thanks for making this year very successful despite the economy.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

[gran racing]

I honestly don't think Palmer will face an issue anytime soon if it lives up to what I've heard (a racer's track, lots of elevation changes). There's a ton of excitement surrounding this track. Of course it will have an impact on other events and tracks.

[megmeyer]

From what I am seeing, the biggest impact of so many tracks/events, is trying to get workers - especially flaggers. They get burnt out with events just about every weekend. It is getting harder and harder to adequately staff each race. The racers will do what they do. Most will try a new track if it is within whatever towing distance they have set for themselves, or even go once just to check it out. If they really like it, they may return. But mostly, they go within a certain radius. Workers seem to wander farther afield, probably because they don't need to tow a race car! But, there is still a distinct limit to the number of weekends most people are willing to commit to.

My two cents. It's more about the workers right now than it is the drivers. And it may come down to regions needing to price everything so they can give even a small stipend to workers to help with the expenses. The alternative we have at NJMP is to pay the track for their workers (which we may have to do for the test day this weekend). That will drive the entry fees up even higher. SCCA has a long history of being one of the most affordable ways to go racing. That may need to change in order to be able to hold events.

Meg - who isn't even racing this year due to money issues

[lateapex911]

When Palmer comes online, I assume that NER (which, I think, 'owns' rights to the track both from an SCCA point of view and I bet, a business agreement/contractual angle) will need to reallocate it's dates. I can not see ADDing dates/weekends. That would be foolish. I wouldn't shed a tear if all but one NHMS dates goes to Palmer, if the track is as good as it seems to look on papaer.

Now, if NHMS rebuilds the roadcourse, well, we have an embarassment of riches.!

[wdether]

I agree with Megan, the pool of workers is limited and more tracks/events could make the current problem worse. F&C are not the only specialty that has trouble attracting volunteers, there were two national races in the NE last year where only two scrutineers worked the event (one was at LRP, ask me how I know). The days of travelling to 9 - 12 races a year are over, my selection of races will be more selective in the future. Given the choice of travelling up to a new track (like Palmer) or going to LRP I will choose the new track anytime. LRP lost its magic or interest for me when Skippy started to screw the regions.

Bob, how can you assume LRP and Pocono will survive? The only reason people go to Pocono for the regional is becuase it is on the NARRC schedule and part of the PRO-IT series. Being a double is the only reason anyone shows up for the national race at Pocono. LRP is by far the most expensive track can be financial suicide to have multiple regional races there (beyond the NARRC Runoffs and national race). Mohud did well becuase it was a national race and Jack did something different (good job by Mohud).

Palmer would be closer to Mohud than LRP, I could see Mohud transferring its races to Palmer. If NHMS builds the roadcourse, why would NER need to race at LRP?

[JLawton]

Dump the LRP races. I'm sure the prices are going to go up because there are other clubs who are willing to pay it.

[Robert Zecca]

Bill when I say that Pocono and LRP will survive I mean Pocono has their NASCAR events and if SCCA went away they would still be making money. The same for LRP....Skip in his heart wants SCCA and for the future more than ever. I speak to him weekly since due to my 25 year business relationship with him. If SCCA decides not to go there they will still survive. The bottom line is LRP has a long-time SCCA history and as a driver I would want to race at a place where there is history and where great drivers were part of. Look at Topeka, here and gone regarding SCCA. Everyone complains about LRP but all of us still come back regardless of price and the car counts are still strong there.

Read the replies about workers. All these tracks are great and all I am saying is they better have deep pockets to survive and the regions better start to think about workers and the growth of our membership to support all these great venues. To hold an event you need paying drivers and the support groups including workers, timing and scoring and stewards. Look at the problems all regions are having trying to get timing and scoring people now and we really want to tackle more tracks. Think about what we wish for???? Show me one timing and scoring chief under the age of 56. Do we have a plan for recruitment. Lately if Linda Louie can not do the job we have to hire someone from Finger Lakes or Ohio and these are great people and over 60 years old. Everbody depends on Linda, I have known her since college years ago and say something happens to her or she is sick or burnt out what do we do. We have similiar problems in this club and I strongly feel we need to lessen some events for 2010, come up with a 5 year plan and then move forward. You guys know I all for the drivers but since I am on a board I see both sides of the fence and the "GRASS IS NOT SO GREEN ON ONE SIDE". Go for it!

[Robert Zecca]

Look at NJMP this weekend. It is an incredible facility with very deep pockets ( funded by Merrill Lynch) in an area that embraces and supports racing. It is located in a great area surrounded by millions of people within 3 hours. We have 214 cars registered for the Summer Thunder race this weekend on one track and they have a sold out BMW club event on the other track. I have been there on some weekends where they have 300-400 bikes a day on one track.
Even though this is a great facility they opened during the worst economic time they are still doing very well and when things get better these guys will fly. I just hope owners of any prospective new track do their due diligence and marketing research and not work off of emotions to make sure a new track will support itself in an area. The only reason why NHMS can survive is because of NASCAR as in the case of Pocono. A new track better have some major plans and venues because it is hard to survive just off of amateur clubs.

[gran racing]

Everyone complains about LRP but all of us still come back regardless of price and the car counts are still strong there.

People have been coming back (although car counts have been down at LRP) but how often? There will be a point where more and more people say screw LRP due to pricing whether warrented by Skippy or not and do other things with their money be it attend other races or save it. I personally am a big LRP fan, but even still I'm choosing to spend my racing money at other tracks versus doing more LRP events this year.

Palmer is an absolutely fantastic thing and will generate several new opportunites for the club / regions that host events there. Lets not lose sight of that.

I am extremely excited about the track's potential from many perspectives. Even beyond our little racing world, having a track that people in the "LRP market" can potentially offer more affordable HPDE events is a huge plus. If we're talking about volunteer and driver recruitment, getting more people into HPDEs and tapping into that resource is a good thing. There are many benefits of Pamer coming together.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Geezus. LESS EVENTS SOLVES ALL THE ISSUES. Less worker burn out, less 'supply' that spreads out the pretty static 'demand'.

[mossaidis]

As a mohud member, I am absolutely excited about Palmer as well (if you can't tell). I know Bruce Allen 4 years now from my attendance at COM events and we all knew Palmer is exactly what the Northeast needs - a track owned and more or less controlled by SCCA region NER. I feel the loyalties towards LRP and NHMS, yet as Jeff mentioned there are other clubs (both club and HPDE/TT) willing to pay more money to attend there. Basically the HPDE/TT crowd would rather spend money on performance mods and/or more expensive track time rather than safety mods and the percieved "bumper grind" and "door smashing" of SCCA (I am not kidding).

[BruceG]

Look at NJMP this weekend. It is an incredible facility with very deep pockets ( funded by Merrill Lynch) in an area that embraces and supports racing. It is located in a great area surrounded by millions of people within 3 hours. We have 214 cars registered for the Summer Thunder race this weekend on one track and they have a sold out BMW club event on the other track. I have been there on some weekends where they have 300-400 bikes a day on one track.
Even though this is a great facility they opened during the worst economic time they are still doing very well and when things get better these guys will fly. I just hope owners of any prospective new track do their due diligence and marketing research and not work off of emotions to make sure a new track will support itself in an area. The only reason why NHMS can survive is because of NASCAR as in the case of Pocono. A new track better have some major plans and venues because it is hard to survive just off of amateur clubs.

Bob....with all due respect, have you tried driving from Southern Vermont to Southern NJ? In a lighter vein, how much of our TARP money was used by Merrill Lynch to build NJMP?.....LOL

[Doc Bro]

Geezus. LESS EVENTS SOLVES ALL THE ISSUES. Less worker burn out, less 'supply' that spreads out the pretty static 'demand'.


Yup, business 101.

Then again business 101 doesn't apply to a beaurocracy, right?

The good thing is by the time that this hulking, slow to change behemoth of a club figures these things out the economy will be righted and all will be better.....(where's that tongue-in-cheek emoticon?)

R

[BruceG]

Geezus. LESS EVENTS SOLVES ALL THE ISSUES. Less worker burn out, less 'supply' that spreads out the pretty static 'demand'.

Andy's right...less events. How about just one MEGA race per year at the new Palmer track. Limit classes to 100 cars( a few more cars on the track won't bother the spec pinata drivers any way). If we put the Formula VEE's in with the GT1's and SPO's that will stop their bitching about the danger of running with spec racer fords in some regions! Large salaries for all corner workers and deluxe accomodations at the Marriot in downtown Springfield.....LOL

But seriously...Andy is right and we need some consensus between organizers and participants on downsizing the number of events if we are to survive IMHO:024:

[lateapex911]

Bob....with all due respect, have you tried driving from Southern Vermont to Southern NJ? ?.....LOL

I think Bob drives from New Jersey to Lime Rock as a daily commute, so no whining to Bob about driving long distances. ;)

[BruceG]

I think Bob drives from New Jersey to Lime Rock as a daily commute, so no whining to Bob about driving long distances. ;)

His coroporate jet must be in the shop, Jake...LOL. After all Bruce MacInnes lands on the front straight at LRP!

[Robert Zecca]

Years ago I was called a "Racer". We did not have all these forums to whine about things. I raced at Bryar (NHMS), LRP, Mid OHio, Sebring, Road Atlanta, Road Ameica, Saint Louis, the Glen, Pocono and Summit all in one year so I am not afraid to drive to Vermont.

Racers travelled to different events because they meant something and not the same place over and over again. At the time we followed the Firehawk series for three years and I even was in an event with 108 cars at Sebring. We did not have time for all the bs I see going on we put our money where our mouth was and got on the track and raced all over the place. Crap or get off the pot.......meaning we as SCCA MEMBERS need to work together to grow the sport. Personally I do not care where we race but I can tell you one thing Palmer will not be cheap unless somebody will want to take a bath. In 1978-1982 we averaged $15,000 per year per driver to race and that was with a car, trailer, etc.... already paid for. Do not complain about money because you guys are very lucky to do what we love regardless of price. If money becomes an issue than become a worker or on the board like me. I can no longer afford to race....I have other priorities but I still enjoy the races and the people. Instead of complaining so much about this or that lets see everyone do something positive. I am trying the best that I can and I know and appreciate the efforts of others.

[BruceG]

GEEEZ..Bob. I just gave you that great compliment on this forum the other day about your service at the track........LOL

[Robert Zecca]

Bruce,

You forget I am now very old, Need Viagara and very forgetful. I am sorry. Did I mention I am having a bad hairday (lack of).

Sorry,
Bob

[BruceG]

Bruce,

You forget I am now very old, Need Viagara and very forgetful. I am sorry. Did I mention I am having a bad hairday (lack of).

Sorry,
Bob

Bob...no offense ever taken!! I think sometimes we all take ourselves way too seriously on these forums. we all want the same good racing,safety, friends to race with and sportmanship.

Everything else is just frosting on the cake.

Warm regards,

Bruce:D

[KelleyHux]

Look at Topeka, here and gone regarding SCCA.
I understand this is a NeDiv thread ... but despite all the griping from east of the Mississippi, Topeka is still here for the local SCCA racers.

It's still a good facility, and the track is enjoyable for the drivers (despite all the "improvements" to try and keep the Runoffs). And the worker amenities are better than MidOhio from a flagger's perspective. Oh yeah, and you should check with the Tech folks - I doubt you'll find a better "tech barn" at many of our local SCCA tracks.

Kelley Huxtable
Des Moines Valley Region
Proud Kansas taxpayer (and supporter of Heartland Park Topeka)

[ronin12]

I know that a am a relatively new member and not a driver so I can't speak from the drivers point of view, but i am a volunteer(corner worker) and started out when I was 5 in T&S at LRP. I have had a passion for the sport for the past 35 years and hope to one day be racing. I will travel up to 4 hours to flag for the most part. I enjoy being part of it and watching the action. The only downside sometimes is the low car counts and occasionally being taken granted for by some regions. Most regions are very good with the treatment of all workers, but an occasional race or 2 where things aren't so good and i've traveled 4 hours to be there leaves a sour taste in my mouth(it's why i chew gum) anyhow getting to my point one of the problems I see with the sport in general is lack of exposure. That affects both the fan base and worker recruitment. I am a manager at an indoor go kart track in CT and have approached regions about having a booth or posting info at our track and nothing ever gets done. Whenever someone looks at one of our LRP brochures(we're a ticket outlet) they've never heard of it. When I talk to them about road racing, most aren't that familiar with it. We get all types through our doors and a good majority have motorsports interest. I feel it is a good group to try to get involved in the sport to help grow and get some new blood into the regions, but like others I have tried to help and can only do so much by myself. i agree that if the club as a whole is going to survive then we have to start to work together to make it happen.

[gran racing]

A nice update: http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/08/palmer_motorsports_park_plan_b.html

[StephenB]

A really good resource for updates instantly is facebook... The citizens have created a page "FOR-IT"!!

https://www.facebook.com/#!/Palmercitizensforpalmermotorsports


Here is the newest picture that I have found of the progress.

[lateapex911]

Wow. So, that would make it:
NHMS near Concord NH, 1:45 from say Worchester, MA
Thompson, in CT, :30M from Worchester, MA
Palmer, In Ma, :40M from Worchester, MA
And Lime Rock in NW CT, 2:00H form Worchester, MA...

All fall under the NER coverage area.
As it is, we have a bunch of races that are possibly hitting the saturation point...not enough racers to go around.
Now add two more tracks VERY close to the mix. Interesting times...

Skip (LRP) will just rent the dates to the marque clubs, if SCCA doesn't take them, I guess, ....but he has no real professional dates for next year. And if the Thompson and Palmer rents are less than $75K (AND they are SAT/SUN), I can see LRP being a one race per year deal, with NYR doing the Runoffs in late September as the only SCCA event.

[Terry Hanushek]

Jake


I can see LRP being a one race per year deal, with NYR doing the Runoffs in late September as the only SCCA event.

This may be very close to reality in 2014. There were three SCCA dates at LRP this year but I can't see more than two dates next year, if that. With the diminishing SCCA presence and the loss of major pro races like Grand-Am and ALMS, Lime Rock seems to be devolving into a club track. It will be interesting to see if they can continue to command their elevated track rental prices without the glamor of pro racing and high level SCCA racing.

Terry

[Greg Amy]

What Terry said. And it doesn't break my heart one bit...


Wow. So, that would make it:
NHMS near Concord NH, 1:45 from say Worchester, MA
Thompson, in CT, :30M from Worchester, MA
Palmer, In Ma, :40M from Worchester, MA
And Lime Rock in NW CT, 2:00H form Worchester, MA...
Yeah, but then you'd have to live in Worcester MA...

[ner88]

But what a great NERRC series!
Two at NHMS
Two at Thompson
Two at Palmer
One at LRP
no need to travel far:D

[Dano77]

The even better part is One race a month for 7 months. Gives you time to go do "other" activities and stuff. 4 weekends between races is about enough time to rebuild a Dinosaur.

[gran racing]

I like it a LOT! When Jerry mentioned this the other day, I said...gasp...I might even have to make it up to NHMS if it happens.

[RSTPerformance]

Would love to see a schedule that looked like that.... Would miss the other tracks we run, but the travel expenses saved would easily buy me an extra weekend or two!

Raymond

[StephenB]

But what a great NERRC series!
Two at NHMS
Two at Thompson
Two at Palmer
One at LRP
no need to travel far:D

This is an awesome schedule! Have the narrc as that one event at lrp for the nerrc championship and it is my dream schedule for a series! :-)