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tlyttle43
11-29-2007, 03:51 PM
In one of the topics there are a couple allusions to revisions to the layout at CMP. I'd heard rumors to that effect earlier this year, but hadn't heard anything more recently. There isn't any mention I can find on the track website. So... What's happening(ed)? What changes, when comlete, etc?

I've always thought that a cutoff from past the kink to the first right in the "Kart" section would make the place a lot more fun. I've gotten to like the place a lot more over the years, but eliminating one or two of the sloooow turns would be even better.

Tom Lyttle

Butch Kummer
11-29-2007, 04:17 PM
Tom,

This got hidden at the end of another thread about CMP, but I called Joe Hooker the other day to find out what the story is:

= = = = = = =

I'm sure they will have press releases before long, but the CMP Board of Directors has approved a Five Year Plan for facility upgrades. This from Joe Hooker (who's amazed at all he's heard on what HE plans to do) about what to expect by February 2008:

. No changes to the Kink (Turn 10) or the Hairpin (Turn 11). Bypassing the Kink would have the ground-pounders running 180+ when arriving at a 45 mph right-hander - and you think CMP is hard on brakes now!

. 12, 13, & 14 are the trio of right-handers that make up what some people call "Disney World". What they plan to do is extend the track outside (left) of the existing pavement on the exit of 12, make an increasing radius sweeper that comes back inside the existing 13 and joins up with the short chute up to 14. They also will add pavement to the inside radius of 14 to make it less abrupt and increase the speed carried through there. The changes are designed to allow you to run both configurations as you choose. Apparently many of the Pro teams use CMP to test for street circuits and don't WANT the changes to 12-14.

. They are also paving additional parts of the paddock roads (I think he said 1500 linear feet) plus building "day garages" and clubhouse structures, but none of that affects the actual track layout. They're eventually going to build a second pit road between the current T-1 & T-3 to allow two independent tracks, plus the long-range plans call for extending parts of the East course to make the entire track in the neighborhood of three miles in length.

Cobrar05
11-29-2007, 04:17 PM
My understanding of the change to CMP is that after the 180 degree left turn at 11, the track sweeps back to the right sweeping and rounding off the more acute angles of 13 and 14 an taking you back to the pit straight.

Its acts more like the final two turns before the front straight at Roebling. You are on the gas some, but not back on the brakes and not really gaining speed either. It eliminates the Gas! BRAKES!!! GAS! BRAKES!!!!
of the 12, 13, 14 complex.

I would think that would allow for time to cool those brakes off. That is critical to making CMP a viable race course capable of attracting enough entries.

OR....pretty much what Butch said.

tlyttle43
11-30-2007, 11:43 AM
Thanks for the info guys. What you all describe sounds like a pretty good fix what you describe as gas-brake-gas-brake.

By the way, Butch, I never thought I'd hear you say something negative about going 180+! I wasn't suggesting a straight shot from 10 to 12 for just the reason you mention (people missing turn 13 might end up on the highway!). What I was suggesting was keeping the kink a fast right then add a left directly to turn 12 about 100 yards later, so turn 12 would be about 45 degrees instead of the current 90+. Speeds would be higher at 12 and into 13 - maybe 130 in the 13 braking area, but not unmanageable. The main drawback of my idea was that it would eliminate the best out-braking spot on the course - turn 11 . So what they're actually doing is probably better overall.

Tom Lyttle

seckerich
11-30-2007, 03:52 PM
Now all you need to do is come to the Feb. race and try out the new track.

Parrish57
11-30-2007, 06:28 PM
I'll see if I can do a fly by and get an aerial photo!

Cobrar05
11-30-2007, 06:54 PM
Now all you need to do is come to the Feb. race and try out the new track.
[/b]

Talked to Ron last night about approval for CCPS. He seems convinced although he said he would like for more mustang drivers to join my request. I told him its hard to sell participation without approval for the class and a for sure schedule. but i am trying.

February would be good.

jmark
12-03-2007, 01:43 PM
I'll see if I can do a fly by and get an aerial photo!
[/b]Steve your avator kills me! :lol:

Parrish57
12-03-2007, 08:53 PM
Steve your avator kills me! :lol:
[/b]

That's exactly how I felt when I found it! The only thing that would have been better would be if I could get a pic of Otto Pilot smoking a cigarette after his emergency inflation!

DavidM
12-12-2007, 07:13 PM
I like 12-14. It requires a different sort of driving. I typically make up ground on people in that section. Probably has something to do with the good low end torque my car has compared to the other cars in ITA. Sounds like now it's just going to be similar to the other end of the course.

I've had zero brake issues at CMP. Everybody kept saying it was going to eat my brakes, but hasn't happened. Don't know why other than I guess my car has really good brake cooling. I'm not at the front, but I ain't bringing up the rear either.

David

JeffYoung
12-12-2007, 07:36 PM
Same here, on the auto-x section. I like it (my brakes don't though). It favors torque cars.

But, CMP requires me to put entirely new brakes on the car -- pads, roters, calipers up front -- and then change them all again when the weekend is over. No time to cool them, on my car anyway.

Cobrar05
12-12-2007, 08:00 PM
I think the other part of that is that the heavier and faster the cars the more they are beaten up by that circuit. Corvettes seem to nearly vaporize their brakes. So, no big cars, no GT1 cars. No stock cars. No Porsche club, no corvette club, mustangs clubs kill their brakes there.

I am not sure a race track can compete when the high dollar cars and car clubs have less and less interest in the track because its just so unfriendly to their stuff.

Ron Earp
12-13-2007, 06:47 PM
Feb race still on for the Carolina Cup?

I think I'll try the Cup this year. Might be a good way for me to increase track time beyond the SARRC stuff I'm going to try in 08. Of course, assuming a running car and all, but 08 looks good and I might actually have a running car all year - that would be a definitely improvement !!!!!

CHennecy85
12-27-2007, 05:43 PM
Wow, I am so glad they are getting rid of the autocross section. I drive faster through the Wal-Mart parking lot in my mom's Buick than around those turns. It hurts my eyes to watch a Corvette or Viper run around there so slow.

JeffYoung
12-29-2007, 11:35 AM
Chris, good to see you posting again.

You have those gremlins worked out? Hope to see you back out in the SARRC this year.

Happy New Year.

tom_sprecher
01-03-2008, 04:56 PM
Check it out.

Ron Earp
01-03-2008, 05:05 PM
WOW!! Nice change, looking forward to giving that a go!

Ron

JeffYoung
01-03-2008, 05:16 PM
Lots more pictures here:

http://www.carolinamotorsportspark.com/newsconstruction.html

Gary Gentry
01-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Yeeee-Hawww :happy204:

Ron Earp
01-03-2008, 07:06 PM
Dang I hope they didn't tear down my favorite bathroom. Not so sure now....

JeffYoung
01-03-2008, 09:40 PM
Naw, it's still there. Go to the CMP webpage.

Nice day garages though. might have to rent one of those puppies to stay out of the sand and fire ants.

Not sure about this whole track rework. In fact, part of me says, what's the point?

We trade one braking zone - 13 -- for WAY more speed into 14. I'll reserve judgment till I drive it, but right now......hmmmmmmmmmm.....

Ron Earp
01-03-2008, 10:20 PM
I think from a "Save the brakes" point of view you are 100% correct. You still might have a brake fire and disappear into the lake at turn #1.

However I think it might give the track a better flow. I like CMP the way it was, but this might improve the flow a bit and improve the what the "haters" think about it. Those garages might be the ticket. I've been bitten and chewed on by the indigenous wildlife at CMP more than my share.

seckerich
01-04-2008, 08:56 AM
Those garages might be the ticket. I've been bitten and chewed on by the indigenous wildlife at CMP more than my share.
[/b]
I don't think that will help with what you guys get bitten by at night down there. ;)

Cobrar05
01-04-2008, 10:39 AM
I am disappointed in this. I was told that 14 was to be rounded off to take the braking pressure out of that segment as well. From looking at this not nearly enough braking has been taken out and not nearly enough brake cooling has been added.

tom_sprecher
01-04-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't think that will help with what you guys get bitten by at night down there. ;)
[/b]


Would that be shot sucking, titty flapping road whores by chance?

JeffYoung
01-04-2008, 10:45 AM
Steve, we need to get you out of that trailer more.

Gary Gentry
01-04-2008, 02:55 PM
I really like CMP the way it was (although not because of the last turn) and will probably like it more now. Anything to make that turn a more gradual transition to the front straight will be welcomed. I do hope that they do away with the big elephant turds on drivers left coming out of the turn.....not that I have, um, ever gotten out there onto, um, those.... or any such thing.....

seckerich
01-04-2008, 03:52 PM
:023:

Would that be shot sucking, titty flapping road whores by chance?
[/b]

Ron Earp
01-04-2008, 04:17 PM
Would that be shot sucking, titty flapping road whores by chance?
[/b]

We've never seen any of those in Camden. Now we have seen some young folks out that liked drinking shots, showing their bosums, and seem to enjoy the company of others, but it had nothing to do with roads.

Seriously guys, Camden is a place with class. All you folks that won't set foot out of Lugoff need to come on down to the Jeff and Ron Late Night Camden tour. Bring lots of asprin, some money, and be aware in case of a row you are obliged to lend a helping hand.

Rob, how much does your car weigh? Do you have caliper ducts, rotor hats, and ducts to the inside of the rotor?

mazda49
01-05-2008, 03:30 PM
It is nice seeing CMP go from a British Club course designed for small bore touring cars by Alan Wilson. To a course that will reflect "Big Thunder" of American V-8's and the Zoom-Zoom of the Rotaries, Americans like to hustle a car around and carry some speed into the corners. They just need to add a little more radius and run out to the last corner coming on to the front straight.....reduce the rumble stoppers on the inside radius. The ASA Southern Asphalt series GT cars on steriods will be staging a spectator race (heavens forbid/insurance and everyother reasosn the club holds a deterent to people wanting to watch) this year. CMP could move from a secret play for us club types to actually getting some recognition. Maybe CMP will be more than Area 51 for race cars.

cmaclean
01-05-2008, 09:12 PM
I like what I see so far. I never liked CMP before, the front section of the track was great fun but the back section was just absolutely horrible. No flow, just a hopeless series of 2nd gear autoX corners. Now it looks like the track will flow a lot better and we may be down to only two 2nd gear corners. Turn 14 should now be a decent overtaking proposition as opposed to the bonzai one it was before.

I'll certainly give CMP another shot!

Parrish57
01-07-2008, 10:58 AM
So what do you think these revisions are worth in lap time? Half a second? One second? I'm getting excited about it! However I do share some of the concerns about brake torture. I also think that opening up turn 14 exacerbates the issue of the placement of the Start/Finish line. If I'm side-by-side for the win I guess you'll have to deliver my trophy to the sand trap (or the pond).

I've been waffling on the CCPS race in Feb. but this may be enough to get me out!

jmark
01-07-2008, 11:45 AM
Steve & Ron get those Z cars ready for CMP. I may come shot pics if the weather isn't too bad...... :snow_cool:

JeffYoung
01-07-2008, 01:32 PM
Steve, someone at the Sandbox claims to have done some data analysis, and suggested that a 2:00 lap would be 1:56 on the new config. That means you are looking at 1:30 buddy!

I agree with you about the S/F line. They need to move it BACK. It will be well past the "new" braking zone for Turn 1.

Parrish57
01-07-2008, 06:25 PM
Jeff... If that's the case then Steve Eckerich could probably lap himself!

I hope you bring the Lucas fired British Racing Green Z eater out for the CCPS... Let's play!

Mark... I hope to have a new paint job for you to photograph. I'll be watching the weather...

JeffYoung
01-07-2008, 06:49 PM
Me and Ron are planning on it, to get a jump on the new config for the March double SARRC. Plus, it's a Saturday only which is nice.

Hope to see you there. Car is having the rear end rebuilt, but should be done on time.

seckerich
01-07-2008, 07:03 PM
Jeff... If that's the case then Steve Eckerich could probably lap himself!


[/b]
Unless you are offering a co-drive I doubt that will happen. My car is heading South to it's new owner. I will be running the new EP RX7 in the National but am always open to drive. Anyone need a closer??? :eclipsee_steering:

JeffYoung
01-07-2008, 08:21 PM
Steve P., I don't know, what do you think? I think Steve E. just couldn't handle a no-braked, live rear axle, torque monster? It ain't no girly RX7.......lol......

wink wink

Parrish57
01-08-2008, 10:21 AM
Yeah, Jeff. I get a chuckle thinking about Steve E. getting into one of our cars as a closer after we melted all of the goodie off of the brakes in the first half of a race at CMP. He'd get to the end of the back staight on his out lap to find out that the middle pedal on our cars really doesn't do anything! The short cut from turn 11 to turn 14 would make for some interesting video! :D

seckerich
01-08-2008, 10:41 AM
You guys use brakes there??? Now I see your problem. :P

JeffYoung
01-08-2008, 02:37 PM
Dude! You got Motec! You don't need no stinking brakes, the computer does all the driving for you!

seckerich
01-08-2008, 02:55 PM
How else do you think we keep that earth shattering torque under control. Traction control in an RX is easy. Plant the right foot and wait. Nothing will happen.

JeffYoung
01-08-2008, 04:47 PM
Nothing, apparently, except championships........

Congrats again on the SARRC championship. Long and well deserved.