Wheel bolt pattern adaptors

[JeffYoung]

My old BritShit IT car has 4X95mm wheel studs. Crazy. Panasport won't even make you a 15X7 UL with that pattern.

So, I've got two choices it appears after nearly a year of trying to upgrade the car to 15X7s. I can get very expensive Kodiak or Panasport C8 modulars made, or I can do something about the bolt pattern. There is an easy fix involving modification to the hub that is.....illegal.....but there is also this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Spi...tem250184381812 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Spitfire-GT6-TR7-TR8-Lotus-Alloy-Wheel-Adapters_W0QQitemZ250184381812QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item250184381812)

This is basically the same thing as a spacer plate, and in my view entirely legal. But question -- what about hub integrity? I don't know if this thing will hold up -- anybody use anything like this?

Thanks guys

[joeg]

They are certainly no worse than a thick hub spacer.

I do not think it is necessarily illegal to move the studs a bit, either.

How much were the Kodiaks, BTW?

[Doc Bro]

I do not think it is necessarily illegal to move the studs a bit, either.


[/b]

And where does that poetic freedom come from?

R

[seckerich]

My old BritShit IT car has 4X95mm wheel studs. Crazy. Panasport won't even make you a 15X7 UL with that pattern.

So, I've got two choices it appears after nearly a year of trying to upgrade the car to 15X7s. I can get very expensive Kodiak or Panasport C8 modulars made, or I can do something about the bolt pattern. There is an easy fix involving modification to the hub that is.....illegal.....but there is also this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Spi...tem250184381812 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Spitfire-GT6-TR7-TR8-Lotus-Alloy-Wheel-Adapters_W0QQitemZ250184381812QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item250184381812)

This is basically the same thing as a spacer plate, and in my view entirely legal. But question -- what about hub integrity? I don't know if this thing will hold up -- anybody use anything like this?

Thanks guys
[/b]
Biggest problem you will run into with these adaptors is they move the wheel out quite a bit. You now need to buy wheels with very little or no offset. If they are well made and have good studs they would work but are not my first choice. See if someone like Dynamic will sell you undrilled wheels and have them machined later. Much cheaper than a custom set. The Miata wheels are close enough that they could leave out the holes and the casting would be perfect.

[JeffYoung]

That, moving the studs, is the easy fix. Actually, to go from 4X95 to 4X100 just requires you to drill outthe stud holes a bit and use bigger studs. A technical illegality but getting close to weenie protest.....

Still, I want to stay 100% legal and will go the hub adaptor route unless someone convinces me there are strength issues with it.

Joe, the Kodiaks in 15X7 were about $550 a piece shipped to me. And 13 lbs, so not extremely light like the $400 9 lb Volks I had on order that never showed up. I think Kosei K-1s are 13 lbs as well, and what, $150/wheel? Panasport ULs aren't really that light -- 16 lbs I think for 15X7.

[DavidM]

Did you try Team Dynamics? I looked on their web site and it looked like most of the wheels started at 98mm, but they may be able to do 95. I personally wouldn't worry about widening the holes and using bigger studs. I seriously doubt anybody would even notice and you're definitely in weenie protest land IMO.

Wheels bearings could be the only possible issue with the adapter I see. You may wear them out faster if the stresses are different.

David

[JeffYoung]

David, they said they wouldn't do a 95mm bolt pattern on their hub. Referred me to Compmotive for a TR7/TR8 15" wheel.

I am worried about the stress on teh bearing, which is weak as is. I change them every two weekends as is.

[Limey]

Jeff,

What about Revolutions?

http://www.scp-uk.com/html/revolution_wheels.html (looks like official website is being revamped)

They fit Triumphs, are competition proven, but not sure on weight.......

And I'm going to the UK in Feb.......

Cheers, Mark

[Limey]

Jeff, looks like the Revolutions might be a tad lardy:

http://www.tyresave.co.uk/revorlly.html

Mark

[AjG]

maybe a lead...

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=113325

[DaveITB1]

My old BritShit IT car has 4X95mm wheel studs. Crazy. Panasport won't even make you a 15X7 UL with that pattern.

So, I've got two choices it appears after nearly a year of trying to upgrade the car to 15X7s. I can get very expensive Kodiak or Panasport C8 modulars made, or I can do something about the bolt pattern. There is an easy fix involving modification to the hub that is.....illegal.....but there is also this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Spi...tem250184381812 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Spitfire-GT6-TR7-TR8-Lotus-Alloy-Wheel-Adapters_W0QQitemZ250184381812QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item250184381812)

This is basically the same thing as a spacer plate, and in my view entirely legal. But question -- what about hub integrity? I don't know if this thing will hold up -- anybody use anything like this?

Thanks guys
[/b]


Jeff,

The guy that makes these lives across town from me. Great Guy. Big British Car Nut. I've seen these spacers at his shop. Quality materials. I have no financial interest - just adding my 2 cents. He's got a TR6, MGB, and 2 Austin Healey's, a Jag, and a Lotus as his test mules for many of the parts he sells. I did similar spacers on my ITB 320i when I upgraded to 14' rims. As stated, make sure your rim offset will work with these spacers, both for caliper and fender clearance.

- dave

[JeffYoung]

Aaron, thans on that. I e-mailed him. I'm most interested in where he got them. Spruell in Atlanta says Panasport won't do 4X95mm (I guess it is really 4X3.75in) in 15X7 but it sure looks like he's got them. I've already bought the adaptors (thanks for the "inside" vote of confidence Dave), but I'd like to not run them if possible.

Geez, what a ton of work just to go up to 15X7......

[pfcs49]

There should be tons of cheap wheels 4xWhatever that you can redrill between the lugholes to your pattern if you're willing to use tube nuts (like original Minilites). phil

[Joe Craven]

Jeff, IMO, this design is adequate and well made examples of these types of adapter/spacers will work reasonably well. They won't change the load on your wheel bearings one bit if you order wheels with extra backspace to compensate for the extra thickness of the adapter then the wheels will end up exactly where you want them. If you increase your track over stock as many racers do, then the loads on your bearings will be different than stock. Of course, this isn't any different than ordering custom 95mm wheels with offset to increase your track.

I'd try them, then you could order common and less expensive wheels and come out ahead.

I actually run a similar type of adaptors on one of my street cars and they seem to work well enough. It's a Lamborghini Jalpa and I'm probably the only person willing do to so rather then buying custom wheels with the preferred offset. !

Joe Craven

[JeffYoung]

Thanks Joe. THey have arrived, seem to be very high quality. I will run them - easily reversible.

A Jalpa! Too cool, I always liked those. I even know how to say it -- Yal-pa!

Do you ahve any pictures?

[Joe Craven]

Yes, here is a picture, the rear wheels have been moved out to fill the fenders with a similar wheel spacer.

BTW, love Brit cars, have 3 myself. I just finished restoring a Jensen Healey, used to own 3 of those but didn't have the guts to race one like Ron and am down to 1.

They still haven't freed up any diskspace on this site for pictures.

-Joe

[Parrish57]

Jeff.... You might try Spinwerkes Wheels. Custom offset. Custom Bolt Pattern. 15X7 at 12 pounds per. Retail at $230 each but you can talk them down to about 200. (I did).


You can check them out here: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/spinwerks.htm

I ordered them Factory direct: http://www.spinwerkes.com/index.html

Good luck!

[GKR_17]

Is the stock hub/wheel interface hubcentric? I notice the spacers are not.

[ScotMac]

Jeff, IMO, this design is adequate and well made examples of these types of adapter/spacers will work reasonably well. They won't change the load on your wheel bearings one bit if you order wheels with extra backspace to compensate for the extra thickness of the adapter then the wheels will end up exactly where you want them. If you increase your track over stock as many racers do, then the loads on your bearings will be different than stock. Of course, this isn't any different than ordering custom 95mm wheels with offset to increase your track.

[/b]

Interesting point, Joe, but i would have to disagree. It is true that getting wheels w/ greater offset will compensate for the spacers, and allow the track and scrub radius to remain unchanged. However, the weight will definitely be further "out" from the hub, due to the fact that the wheel "center" is further out. Also, the length of the wheel-to-hub "torque arm" (or leverage) is increased. Kinda like using a longer bar to torque on something. It is true that the center of weight for the outer (non-center) portions of the wheel is unchanged, because the scrub/track hasn't changed, but that does not take into account all the forces on the bearings, IMO.

Is it enough to cause a problem...no idea.

[shwah]

Actually if he uses wheels with the appropriate offset to compensate for the spacer thickness the bearing will have exactly the same lever arm as without. The 'torque' arm consists of a straight line between the force points - center of contact patch to wheel bearing - regardless of what the actual member is shaped like.

Wheel weight itself has very little - uh - bearing on bearing loading. It is the vehicle weight and cornering loads that generate the vast majority of the bearing loads (unless you jump things - then landing wins out on worst loading condition...)

[GKR_17]

Actually if he uses wheels with the appropriate offset to compensate for the spacer thickness the bearing will have exactly the same lever arm as without. The 'torque' arm consists of a straight line between the force points - center of contact patch to wheel bearing - regardless of what the actual member is shaped like.

Wheel weight itself has very little - uh - bearing on bearing loading. It is the vehicle weight and cornering loads that generate the vast majority of the bearing loads (unless you jump things - then landing wins out on worst loading condition...)
[/b]

Correct, except that liftoff might be worse than landing...

[JeffYoung]

whew, true that.

Grafton, thanks for the note on the hubcentric issue. I frankly didn't know what hubcentric was until you said something, and I went and read about it.

Neither the original hubs, nor the adaptors are hub centric. I guess that is not ideal, there is no "lip" that helps support the wheel beyond the lugs. But it is what it is.

[JeffYoung]

Just wanted to ressurrect this one briefly to say I have the adapters, I have 9 lb Vok 4X100 wheels with a huge +43 offest and I have new 225/45/15 Hoosiers......and...fingers crossed....we bolted everything today...and it worked! Nice pieces these adapters and everything appears to be in good shape clearance wise.

Thanks for the helpful discussion on this, much appreciated guys.