Track configuration 2008

[dominojd]

OK time to vote. Give us non CRX's a shot in ITA. :D

[Greg Amy]

What's "Pro" and "Club"? Is "Club" the one we ran in '07?

[Racerlinn]

What's "Pro" and "Club"? Is "Club" the one we ran in '07?
[/b]

Yes, Club has the chicane going into the keyhole.
Pro has no chicane - what they used for NASA Nationals.

How about we just run the oval NASCAR style up in the keyhole area?
Heaviest car wins..... :eclipsee_steering:

[JoshS]

I won't be there, but I have raced in both configurations (with the same car), and I think the Pro course is much better racing, just because it adds one passing zone. It makes turn 1 way more important (and I like turn 1!)

[R2 Racing]

Don't we already have one championship caliber event at a track that rewards power over handleing? Or can we add the chicane to the backstraight at Road Atlanta?

+1 for keeping the chicane, as the racing Gods intended.

[lateapex911]

Disagree strongly. We are there to race, and racing means racecraft. Setting people up for passes. Gotta have places to pass...

On many occasions I got a great run out of 1 and was 1/3 beside a guy and gaining going into the chicane. And had to back out. And I'd get the same run through the keyhole, but the following straightt was longer, so, in the end, no pass.

Then I'd be stuck on the bumper for the rest of the lap, not getting quite far enough alongside to make a move.

So, to me, we are there to race, and rewarding a great corner exit from a bit of a hang on and hope corner is important.

Adding that passing zone is important for cars that can't pass slower cars due to power deficiencies.

Pro course, please!!!!

[Joe Moser]

I don't care either way!

If you actually know that track well, on the Pro Course you just hang to the RH side all the way until Turn 2 (I should know, I suck at Turn 1!!). Even if you get a run on me, you'll be on the far LH side of the track, I'll go deep in braking and stay to the RH side and absolutely kill your run onto the back straight, while I use the banking on the inside of Keyhole to blast out of the corner and beat you to Turn 5!

I personally think running the Club Course is more fun because it adds another dimension to the track, but either way! We run Pro Course for NASA and some people seem to really like it better, some don't...


[EDIT] It really helps to open a Passing Zone for when you are going through lapped traffic, not so much for racing against equal competition, IMO

[dominojd]

Disagree strongly. We are there to race, and racing means racecraft. Setting people up for passes. Gotta have places to pass...

On many occasions I got a great run out of 1 and was 1/3 beside a guy and gaining going into the chicane. And had to back out. And I'd get the same run through the keyhole, but the following straightt was longer, so, in the end, no pass.

Then I'd be stuck on the bumper for the rest of the lap, not getting quite far enough alongside to make a move.

So, to me, we are there to race, and rewarding a great corner exit from a bit of a hang on and hope corner is important.

Adding that passing zone is important for cars that can't pass slower cars due to power deficiencies.

Pro course, please!!!!
[/b]

I agree with Jake. Yeah really. :D Yes that config does help my car being that at the NASA nats I was only 1 sec off of the front running H4 cars and at IT fest i was more like 3 sec off. Could have been my driving could have been weather could have been car setup, what ever. I honestly think it would be much better racing having a ten car pack running at the front instead of having a few cars break away. IMO

[Joe Moser]

I agree with Jake. Yeah really. :D Yes that config does help my car being that at the NASA nats I was only 1 sec off of the front running H4 cars and at IT fest i was more like 3 sec off. Could have been my driving could have been weather could have been car setup, what ever. I honestly think it would be much better racing having a ten car pack running at the front instead of having a few cars break away. IMO
[/b]

I would love to have a 10 car train! We had 5 at the NASA Nationals and probably had the closest, best racing I've ever seen :)

Just remember though Joe, we were on Toyo's! :eclipsee_steering: I hate those g damn tires! That being said, I'm sure it does help you to some degree, being that the Nissan doesn't turn as well as the Hondas and going straight just takes motor, which the Nissans definitely are not short on! Either way, that race was a lot of fun, and I'm real excited for the ARRC - even if we lose every advantage we had at Mid-O :)

[dominojd]

I would love to have a 10 car train! We had 5 at the NASA Nationals and probably had the closest, best racing I've ever seen :)

Just remember though Joe, we were on Toyo's! :eclipsee_steering: I hate those g damn tires! That being said, I'm sure it does help you to some degree, being that the Nissan doesn't turn as well as the Hondas and going straight just takes motor, which the Nissans definitely are not short on! Either way, that race was a lot of fun, and I'm real excited for the ARRC - even if we lose every advantage we had at Mid-O :)
[/b]

How much faster do you think you could go on Hoosiers? You do have to add weight to the car for IT right? It may even out quite nicely.

I can't wait for the ARRC myself. We are going to finally dyno my car after 2 seasons on the engine. :D Maybe more ponies.

If you drive at the ARRC like you did at IT FEST I wouldn't worry to much about losing advantages you'll find others. :D

[Joe Moser]

How much faster do you think you could go on Hoosiers? You do have to add weight to the car for IT right? It may even out quite nicely.
[/b]

Actually, you're probably right... We have to add 100 lbs. to run ITA, forgot about that! I think we probably could have gained maybe 0.5 seconds on Hoosiers with the extra weight, our cars just won't turn on the Toyo's... Whatever the case, you were definitely going faster at Nationals, probably just the result of more track time there! I have a feeling that you and Greg are going to be hard to beat this year at the ARRC, and I expect a lot more out of the Miatas this year too, and the Integras really come to life there, so it's really anyone's game at this point...

Sorry to hijack this thread! I'm done now...

I vote for either config at Mid-O for the IT Fest!

[lateapex911]

I have a feeling that you and Greg are going to be hard to beat this year at the ARRC, and I expect a lot more out of the Miatas this year too, and the Integras really come to life there, so it's really anyone's game at this point...

Sorry to hijack this thread! I'm done now...

I vote for either config at Mid-O for the IT Fest! [/b]

Boy, I love the sound of a class where the track is as important as the car in determining the outcome. That tells me the class is about as well balanced, in the big picture, as you're going to get in a club racing class with dozens of models listed.

[Dave Burchfield]

Some things to think about........... for the last 5 years, I have worked as a Course Marshall for every Pro race and Runoffs at Mid Ohio. I was either on a wrecker or on a rope tow.

Now, that being said, think of the number of sessions this past year that were either black flagged or run under a double yellow with safety car because of a car in the trap in the keyhole. Were there any? I don't know.

Now, consider the number of times I can remember being under a black flag or double yellow during a Pro race where the Pro course is being used. Safety considers a car in the trap in the Keyhole a FAR greater risk on the Pro course because of the closing speeds without the chicane and automatically goes double yellow or black when a car is in that trap. From experience, it takes 3 to 4 laps to dispatch a vehicle, pull the race car, clear the track of debris from the pulled race car, and then get everyone safe.

Just something to consider.......who wants their race to turn into a parade?

Me, I really don't care, I'm just happy to be there.

[JLawton]

I haven't decided.

I really liked the chicane. It was very challenging and fast = fun :023:

However, I do see the positives of opening up another passing zone, even if it is just for lapped traffic (I struggled with that) like Joe said. Plus, I have one of those cars that doesn't turn well, but brakes really, really well!!


How about one configuration one day and the other the next?? Hmmmm, that would be tough having to go out for a race on a configuration that you haven't practiced or qualified on......... :unsure:

[iagreen]

Cut out the best corner?!?! You know there is still that tight corner there even on the pro course.

[Rabbit07]

I really love the chicane! However, being that I drive a car that can't turn to save it's life, I voted for pro course!. Joe Moser, My car works equally well with all four in the grass so I'll just go down the inside of you on the inside. :P From what I've seen Crazy Joe's car works well in the grass as well! :D

[gran racing]

I really liked driving Mid Ohio, but wish there were more good passing areas. Using the Pro course would create one more area for passing.


How about one configuration one day and the other the next?? Hmmmm, that would be tough having to go out for a race on a configuration that you haven't practiced or qualified on.........[/b]

Yeah, that would be tough especially for people who have never driven the course at all prior to attending the event.

[Eagle7]

I really love the chicane! However, being that I drive a car that can't turn to save it's life, I voted for pro course!. Joe Moser, My car works equally well with all four in the grass so I'll just go down the inside of you on the inside. :P From what I've seen Crazy Joe's car works well in the grass as well! :D [/b]

And when you leave the grass you've got 8 tires to get you turned. :023:

[TAC]

I was going to wait till after the ARRC to start looking for input for next years race but you've beat me to it. :D

How did the guys at the NASA nationals handle the "pro course"?

Was there a lot of local and full course yellows because of incidents in the keyhole?

If we do go with the "pro course" I would say it would be used for the entire weekend including the test groups on Friday.


Todd

[RSTPerformance]

I think it would be fun to somehow incourperate both courses...

Raymond

[TimM ITB]

I have to agree with Jake's original statements. I could get a great run out of #1, and get close to overtaking by the chicane, and have to back out of the pass in order to save everyone's life and limb into the chicane.

That being said, I love the way that we run the multi-race weekend events at NHIS, using both the South Chicane and the Nascar oval. Some cars / drivers have advantages in each configuration, so this method kind of "evens it out." Why couldn't we do something like:

Friday Practice / Test Day

- Before lunch = chicane configuration
- After lunch = Pro course configuration

Saturday events = chicane course

Sunday events = Pro course configuration

In this format, even if you have not gotten there for Friday's testing, on Saturday you'll get somewhat used to the course, at least. And if we have a short practice first thing on Sunday (one 15 minute session?), then you'd at least get a feel for the Pro course?

If it has to be one or the other - I vote for more passing zones - Pro Course.

later,

Tim M

[RacerBill]

My vote is for chicane on Saturday, pro course on Sunday.

[dominojd]

I was going to wait till after the ARRC to start looking for input for next years race but you've beat me to it. :D

How did the guys at the NASA nationals handle the "pro course"?

Was there a lot of local and full course yellows because of incidents in the keyhole?

If we do go with the "pro course" I would say it would be used for the entire weekend including the test groups on Friday.
Todd
[/b]

Todd,

The worst incedent there all weekend was when Colin Botha cut a brake line going in and rolled the car. As far as any other incedents nothing to crazy went on. I even watched the spec miata's and there were only a few spins.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I voted Club. I like the idea of running the configuration that the 'locals' run and trying to shoot for their track records at the event.

Having said that, I also like the fact a premier event can have it's own track records. It would be the only time IT officially ran that config all year - right? Interesting.........

If you do it both ways in one weekend, you lose the third (middle) race. Wouldn't the qualifying race have to be the same configuration as the race that it is qualifying for?

Either way, we are bringing 5 cars in 08.

[jlucas]

I don't care if I get beat by the CRXs. Club is way more challenging as a driver. Pro course just turns it into a drag race. I've done 3 Runoffs on Pro (SSC, SSC, & T2) and given a choice I'll take Club every time.

[downingracing]

...Having said that, I also like the fact a premier event can have it's own track records. It would be the only time IT officially ran that config all year - right? Interesting............[/b]

No - OVR Runs the Club Course one day and the Pro Course the next at the Double Regional. :D

[tom91ita]

i voted club because it is more fun.

but i will be there either way. the combo would be good too. it is all good at mid-ohio.

and with regards to passing zones, it helps me as much as it hurts me. the bmw's i am trying to catch can be caught some in the chicane and keep me closer for the back straight.

the bmw's that are trying to catch me will have a better run on me and try to overtake me there.

so if it is better for me or worse depends on if i am chasing or being chased. and both of those make for fun racing.

[Cobrar05]

pro course please. one of the selling points to this event is a national level event to prepare for NASA nationals. I know that region wants those NASA cars for this event.

Since that is the case, pro course is required.

[tom91ita]

could we vote with our entry fees next year?

i think that those attending should have more say or maybe those than attended this past year?

just a thought.

i will be there either way and i would understand if the nasa thing caused the pro to be picked. but how many were actually there for the IT Festival and NASA Nationals, half a dozen?

tom

[TAC]

I voted Club. I like the idea of running the configuration that the 'locals' run and trying to shoot for their track records at the event.

Having said that, I also like the fact a premier event can have it's own track records. It would be the only time IT officially ran that config all year - right? Interesting.........

If you do it both ways in one weekend, you lose the third (middle) race. Wouldn't the qualifying race have to be the same configuration as the race that it is qualifying for?

Either way, we are bringing 5 cars in 08.
[/b]

Andy

The locals do run more Club than Pro course.

I think SCCA only keeps "non-runoff" records at Mid Ohio from the Club configuration. And we had two new IT track records recorded at the event! :OLA:

I would agree that the Sunday morning qualifying race would have to be the same configuration.

I'm glad to hear your coming! :happy204:

Todd

[philstireservice]

pro course..

[JLawton]

pro course..
[/b]


Why?? Do you think it will be harder on tires?? ;)

[jay05]

Could we add "both" on the poll? Thats what I would vote for.

[dj10]

Do them both like I suggested last year.

[RacerBill]

Sorry :(

[Catch22]

"Both" is an excellent idea.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Remember, BOTH means you can't run the triple race format like last year.

[philstireservice]

Why?? Do you think it will be harder on tires?? ;)
[/b]


No.....

Because when I am out there I want nothing in the way of you seeing my tailights...... :024:


Just kidding my dear boy.....( sorry, I'm never sarcastic on here.....it felt good....:)