Crazy Joe ?????

[Tkczecheredflag]

Anyone hear how Crazy Joe did/is doing at Mid-Ohio???

[Andy Bettencourt]

The most I can make of MYLAPS is that he qualified 1st in PTE and then DNF'd (or limped around) in the qualifying race. He is Group J.

[Andy Bettencourt]

http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=658072

3rd in PTE...nice job!!!

[JLawton]

Joe was first on Saturday but got bounced to last the result of some contact.

Started 6th on Sunday, was making a run but was held up by a car in another class that wanted to race him. Finished 3rd.........He's NOT happy.........

[Tkczecheredflag]

Joe .... got bounced to last the result of some contact.
[/b]

JOE?????

[Andy Bettencourt]

Other accounts say it was qustionable...hope to see the video so we can Monday-morning-quarterback it!!! :)

[Tkczecheredflag]

I feel bad for him - I know his eyes were set on the big prize.

Joe - we await your enlightenment on the matter.

[Andy Bettencourt]

http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=658072

The winner of PTE looks to have been REAL fast. About 1.3 seconds faster than anyone elses fast lap. Tough run group...Legends, where the bottom half of the class was running the same times as Joe...then PTD leader running PTE times...and then Spec E30 all running similar times. Doesn't seem like a great grouping for a National Championship...but this is what you have to do when you try and fit this sort of event into such a short time. It's got to be tough.

[dominojd]

http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=658072

The winner of PTE looks to have been REAL fast. About 1.3 seconds faster than anyone elses fast lap. Tough run group...Legends, where the bottom half of the class was running the same times as Joe...then PTD leader running PTE times...and then Spec E30 all running similar times. Doesn't seem like a great grouping for a National Championship...but this is what you have to do when you try and fit this sort of event into such a short time. It's got to be tough.
[/b]

Yes the winner of PTE was FAST!!!!!!!!!!! It was a Honda R&D 2006 Civic SI. Legality Questionable. I left with the car being under protest from the 2nd place Scion driver (factory backed I may add) for possible ecu modifications.

So bascally my shit box took 3rd place behind a Factory Honda Car and a Factory Toyota car. Not bad huh? I really believe I would have had 2nd if it weren't for the PTD BMW that was racing me for the whole race. It was a 318i with a super charger on it. I finally managed to get by him in the last few laps and there wasn't enough time to catch back up to the Scion.

Anyhow here's the video. Me and Todd Reid in his evil sounding probe had a few good battles.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=76...908026777&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7669354970908026777&hl=en)

[Doc Bro]

the PTD BMW that was racing me for the whole race. It was a 318i with a super charger on it. I finally managed to get by him in the last few laps
[/b]


Great so you're telling me I need a supercharger to keep up to you......

R

[Greg Amy]

Great so you're telling me I need a supercharger to keep up to you......[/b]
...or, maybe you "shut up and drive" unlike some "motorists" equipped with supercharged 318i vehicles...

;)

[jlucas]

Yes the winner of PTE was FAST!!!!!!!!!!! It was a Honda R&D 2006 Civic SI. Legality Questionable. I left with the car being under protest from the 2nd place Scion driver (factory backed I may add) for possible ecu modifications.
[/b]

Joe, What exactly led you to question the legality of it?

BTW, you do know Brian was a podium driver at the Runoffs when they were at MidOhio, right?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Great so you're telling me I need a supercharger to keep up to you......

R [/b]

If you want to see how fast it is in a straight line, FF to about 15:50 of Joe's vid (and again at 22:50). Joe gets a run and then it rips him a new one on the back side. Handles great on the straights but slows in the corners.

Some nice words at 18:38...:)

A phenominal pass at 28:00, words again at 28:15...:)

Cleared him at 28:50 - A Fiero at 28:55!!!!

[Jeremy Billiel]

Joe needed a GTF out of my way sticker on his car. Man that is frustrating just to watch. I can't imagine how I would feel if it were me in the race.

[dominojd]

Joe, What exactly led you to question the legality of it?

BTW, you do know Brian was a podium driver at the Runoffs when they were at MidOhio, right?
[/b]

There was no doubt he is a good driver. What was making us all question the legality was this. The car starts in PTE with no points. As i was told the only power adder he had was a cat back exhaust. The handling of the car was so so.

Quick version power to weight ratio

my car 2500# roughly 150 WHP = 16.6
Scion 2900# roughly 170-180 WHP = 16.57
Civic 197 hp rated at the crank added cat back 2 hp ? so to the wheels it should be somewhere in the same neighbor hood as the scion 170-180 whp at about the same weight so it ends up around the same # 16.5.

Now all cars are pretty damn close so they should be pretty equal right? Wrong. I followed him in a practice session for quite a few laps. When he got by me into the keyhole I was like fine go I'll folow you. Well anyhow i had a run out of the keyhole to where i almost hit him in the rear on exit. As we got straight (mind you I got close and never lifted) he just plain ole motored away.

Now the scion was fast but no where near the honda. And they should have the same HP roughly.

I guess I will never know but when I left the track the scion driver was protesting the hondas ECU.

[jlucas]

Joe, I talked to Brian today. He doesn't have an account but here what he had to say and asked me to relay it.

The car was dyno'd after the protest. Nasa discussed the results with the protester, the protest was then dropped.

The car is about 15.5 lbs/hp, so yeah it should pull the Nissan on the straights but the Nissan weighs less so it should be faster in the corners. I picked the car based on the rules and did not try to class a car that was already built. The penalties for weight removal are just too high so it pays to not get bumped up a class.

Hope that helps. Don't blame him for how NASA chose to class the car.

[dominojd]

Joe, I talked to Brian today. He doesn't have an account but here what he had to say and asked me to relay it.

The car was dyno'd after the protest. Nasa discussed the results with the protester, the protest was then dropped.

The car is about 15.5 lbs/hp, so yeah it should pull the Nissan on the straights but the Nissan weighs less so it should be faster in the corners. I picked the car based on the rules and did not try to class a car that was already built. The penalties for weight removal are just too high so it pays to not get bumped up a class.

Hope that helps. Don't blame him for how NASA chose to class the car.
[/b]

I am more or less upset on how NASA handled the whole weekend. It was totally different from last year. I don't know maybe it's just me. No doubt Brian drove the shit out of that heavy ass car, i can attest to that following him in a pratice session.

[Andy Bettencourt]

PT is a tough egg. It is GREAT for enrty level, run-whatcha-brung or build-it-how-YOU-want-it drivers. The problem with it is that there are SO many combinations and no real path to follow for competitiveness. Joe's ITA car fits fairly well in PTE. He takes all the points and it makes it in. But you could run the following cars against him - wih springs, shocks, bars and 225mm R-compounds, provided they weigh no less than 150lbs below their curb weights:

BMW 330i: 255hp

BMW E30 M3: 189hp

BMW Z4: 215hp

Neon SRT4 ACR: 230hp (most cars dyno at 220+ whp)

Civic Si: 198hp

Miata MX-5 Turbo: 178hp

RX-7 Turbo II S5: 200hp

You could 'build' a really FAST PTE car - ain't no ITA car stands a chance. I would run the 1991 S5 Turbo II RX-7. Big power, big torque, great handling with 19 points worth of suspension mods and 225mm Hoosiers.

(Edit - this is just a small sampling of what you could run, just some I cherry picked)

[Rabbit07]

PT is a tough egg. It is GREAT for enrty level, run-whatcha-brung or build-it-how-YOU-want-it drivers. The problem with it is that there are SO many combinations and no real path to follow for competitiveness. Joe's ITA car fits fairly well in PTE. He takes all the points and it makes it in. But you could run the following cars against him - wih springs, shocks, bars and 225mm R-compounds, provided they weigh no less than 150lbs below their curb weights:

BMW 330i: 255hp

BMW E30 M3: 189hp

BMW Z4: 215hp

Neon SRT4 ACR: 230hp (most cars dyno at 220+ whp)

Civic Si: 198hp

Miata MX-5 Turbo: 178hp

RX-7 Turbo II S5: 200hp

You could 'build' a really FAST PTE car - ain't no ITA car stands a chance. I would run the 1991 S5 Turbo II RX-7. Big power, big torque, great handling with 19 points worth of suspension mods and 225mm Hoosiers.

(Edit - this is just a small sampling of what you could run, just some I cherry picked)
[/b]

Try 300 WHP! I know I have built many of them for T2. I really don't like Nasa much at all. They seem way to disorganized and flighty for me. Let's just stick with the SCCA and show them how its done! :P

Congrates Joe on being first in class!!!!!

[steve-d]

I'm starting to feel pretty good about finishing 5th in my 117 RWHP spec miata. 19.7 lb/hp? Not very competitive in PTE. :(

But I accomplished my goal of getting a lot of track time in my first outing at MidOh.

Had some great battles with Todd Reid in his Probe. I'm 80% of the weight and 65% of the power, we got around the track two completely different ways but we had some dang close battles.

Hope to have some PTE video on YouTube soon. Look up SteveDsm88.

Steve D.

[dominojd]

Other accounts say it was qustionable...hope to see the video so we can Monday-morning-quarterback it!!! :)
[/b]

Well here is video from the car starting behind me. I was penalized 9 postions for this. It all happens in the first 15 seconds of the video. If you want continue watching for a sweet slide through the right hander afetr the left into Madness. Questionable maybe? Penalized 9 postions worth it?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2308567688148506465

[dickita15]

Just proves you are a big bully Joe. :P

Still not as bad as Greg at the Glen. :D

[JLawton]

That car needs some weight added to it!! :blink:



I'm glad it wasn't me he hit this time!

[Greg Amy]

Still not as bad as Greg at the Glen. :D[/b]
Crap, if he'd pulled some Greg-Glen-a-tation at that event, they'd probably have asked him to leave the state!!!


I&#39;m <strike>glad</strike> surprised it wasn&#39;t me he hit this time![/b]
Corrected.

[dominojd]

Nobody answered the question though. Was that worth a penalty of 9 postions?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Tough to say Joe. You shoved that Miata out of the way for no good reason. Could have been a stop and go and you would have watched the whole field go by. Fair or not, you will think twice about ANY contact next time - and I bet that was the goal.

[dominojd]

Here it is from my perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkR3O1kIS4U

[gran racing]

Still not as bad as Greg at the Glen. [/b]

In all fairness to Greg, he was trying out for the NASCAR of Tomorrow gig. That was the video where I started to question whether I&#39;m aggresive enough.

I don&#39;t know Joe. The video from the other car makes it seem a lot worst than our video. From yours, I&#39;m not sure that I wouldn&#39;t have done the same thing. Nine positions does seem like quite a stiff penalty, but can see Andy&#39;s point.

[jlucas]

Nobody answered the question though. Was that worth a penalty of 9 postions?
[/b]
It was worth something because that "hole" was not big enough.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3855/joeja5.jpg

That being said if that was the SCCA Showroom Stock Runoffs race, no penalty would have been accessed. That doesn&#39;t make it right, but penalties at the Runoffs are quite rare.

[Rabbit07]

Man, that Nissan has some go!

[dickita15]

Nobody answered the question though. Was that worth a penalty of 9 postions?
[/b]
I guess my answer would have to depend on the culture of the sanctioning body. If nasa is serious about discouraging avoidable contact that does not seem unfair at all. As AB said you could have been black flagged.

[dominojd]

I guess my answer would have to depend on the culture of the sanctioning body. If nasa is serious about discouraging avoidable contact that does not seem unfair at all. As AB said you could have been black flagged.
[/b]

Honestly I would have glady taken a black flag. I still would have finished better than 9th.

[Jeremy Billiel]

I guess my answer would have to depend on the culture of the sanctioning body. If nasa is serious about discouraging avoidable contact that does not seem unfair at all. As AB said you could have been black flagged.
[/b]

I think this is simply about the NASA vs SCCA. In SCCA the ITA guys are comfortable with each other and have accepted racing with each other (for the good!). However, in NASA stuff like this is frowned upon, which is why I think you got the penalty. Is it cheesy? Yup! Is it fair? Probably not, but this is NASA.

And no I am not trying to start the NASA vs. SCCA banter. Rather I am simply stating my opinion based on seeing how NASA operates.

[dominojd]

Man, that Nissan has some go!
[/b]
That is what happens when they start faster cars behind a slower group. I qualified at a 1:42.5 and started behind cars that qualified at 1:48-1:50. What did they think was going to happen.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I think this is simply about the NASA vs SCCA. In SCCA the ITA guys are comfortable with each other and have accepted racing with each other (for the good!). However, in NASA stuff like this is frowned upon, which is why I think you got the penalty. Is it cheesy? Yup! Is it fair? Probably not, but this is NASA.
[/b]

I don&#39;t know Jeremey. I am comfortable with Joe yes, but if he did that to me, I wouldn&#39;t have shed a tear if he got black flagged. There just wasn&#39;t enough room. It&#39;s the penalty you pay for having great power and exceptional starting abilities. Joe gets runs on me like that all the time but has never run into me.

[dominojd]

I think this is simply about the NASA vs SCCA. In SCCA the ITA guys are comfortable with each other and have accepted racing with each other (for the good!). However, in NASA stuff like this is frowned upon, which is why I think you got the penalty. Is it cheesy? Yup! Is it fair? Probably not, but this is NASA.

And no I am not trying to start the NASA vs. SCCA banter. Rather I am simply stating my opinion based on seeing how NASA operates.
[/b]
My whole beef with the situation was that I didn&#39;t even have a chance to defend myself. I got a call from the race director at 8:30 pm while at a resturant having dinner. I was told of *HIS* decsion, not a comittee or board *HIS* decsion. I asked if I could appeal the decsion He told me I had a half an hour to do so. And added it wouldn&#39;t really do any good because he had already made *HIS* decsion. So basically I had to take it up the ass with out being able to do anything about it. Really shitty feeling.

The other part that was screwed up is the whole weekend was filled with inconsistencies. There was no set penalty or ruling for anything, it was all up to the descretion of the race director. So if you got stuck with a not so favorable race director you got screwed.

I also found out that the race director who made this decsion knew the miata driver already. Think that may have influenced the decsion?

The pass questionable, i would say yes. My take if you were on the pole with the slowest car in a straight line and the only way to win was to stay ahead of the 180 WHP scion and the 197 WHP Civic by using traffic to your advantage I think anyone would do it. This race I did win before being stripped of the postions. It would have put me on the pole for the big race on sunday where I was eligble for About $2500 in cash and prizes. I guess yeah I was overly aggressive , but I had a predetermined agenda. WIN THE CASH! That is what pro racing is all about isn&#39;t it. This was a NASA PRO event.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Was the contact aviodable? Yes, however based on the event I personally would not have protested.

[dominojd]

I don&#39;t know Jeremey. I am comfortable with Joe yes, but if he did that to me, I wouldn&#39;t have shed a tear if he got black flagged. There just wasn&#39;t enough room. It&#39;s the penalty you pay for having great power and exceptional starting abilities. Joe gets runs on me like that all the time but has never run into me.
[/b]

I think part of the problem with an event like this is you just don&#39;t know who you are racing with. Racing with you guys all the time you know to look in the mirrors that me or the other SR20 rocket will be coming through. That is the cars strength and we have to use it.

[Andy Bettencourt]

It&#39;s what happens in a dictatorship. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. That contact was VERY avoidable. You just drove into him, dog.

If SCCA was like that, most of us (including me) would have been whacked with a penalty once or twice by now - but I bet the racing would be a lot cleaner.

I am a committee man, not a dictator man so I feel your pain there but you do have to go down fighting.




Was the contact aviodable? Yes, however based on the event I personally would not have protested. [/b]

You might be singing a different tune if you were that Miata and YOU lost YOUR race and CASH because somebody whacked you unneccessarily and knocked right rear out of alignment hindering your ability to compete...it&#39;s all about perspective.

The net net is that if Joe could still have won even if getting black flagged, he didn&#39;t need to &#39;win it all&#39; at the start.

[Doc Bro]

Joe,
As much as I think you&#39;re a lousy bum and a no good cheat.... :D :P , I would say you had a HUGE opening that I for one would have taken in a heartbeat!!!Your rear tire was at his front tire or so it looked from those videos. I&#39;d say you had the pass and the spot was yours....was it the most tactful pass I&#39;ve seen ...No. Was it EGGGG-sactly what I&#39;d expect from the "crazy" one....you bettcha.

Keep up the good work!!


R

[RSTPerformance]

it could have been a lot worse... remmber this??? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=64...earch&plindex=8 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6479356048167170778&q=NHIS+Crash&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8)

In SCCA you might not have been penalized 9 positions but you probably would have recieved some sort of penalty... IF the miata protested you or a corner worker gave a good enough report to the steards to submit a CSA.

Raymond

[JLawton]

It&#39;s what happens in a dictatorship. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. That contact was VERY avoidable. You just drove into him, dog.

If SCCA was like that, most of us (including me) would have been whacked with a penalty once or twice by now - [/b]

"Would have"??? You mean "did". :lol:



Your rear tire was at his front tire or so it looked from those videos. I&#39;d say you had the pass and the spot was yours.....[/b]

I can&#39;t tell if you were serious or not?? They were driving STRAIGHT. It wasn&#39;t a question of who owned a corner. There is no question (even from Joe) that he hit the Miata. He was at fault. The question is, "was the penalty appropriate". Rob, if you were serious about owning the spot, that makes me a "little" nervous. Now, if that happened to me in one of our regional races, with car speed being more equal, no cash on the line, I would be pissed. That&#39;s one thing I am very comfortable with when running at the pointy end inthe Northeast. That none of the other guys aren&#39;t going to make a hole. And I know Joe wouldn&#39;t do it in that situation. He may hammer you from behind, but he&#39;s not going to make a hole. :P

But hearing how the decision was made with no discussion or appeal ability and hearing how much cash was on the line, it doesn&#39;t make Joe any crazier!! ;)



it could have been a lot worse... remmber this??? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=64...earch&plindex=8 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6479356048167170778&q=NHIS+Crash&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8)

[/b]


Wow, cheap shot!!! :lol:

[Doc Bro]

Rob, if you were serious about owning the spot, that makes me a "little" nervous. Now, if that happened to me in one of our regional races, with car speed being more equal, no cash on the line, I would be pissed. That&#39;s one thing I am very comfortable with when running at the pointy end inthe Northeast. That none of the other guys aren&#39;t going to make a hole. And I know Joe wouldn&#39;t do it in that situation. He may hammer you from behind, but he&#39;s not going to make a hole. :P


[/b]

Jeff,

There&#39;s no doubt we all would be P.O.&#39;d. As far as you being nervous.....are you kidding ME now?? Saying that none of the NER guys will make a hole is a blatantly niave statement. Your Kakashi teammate (NOT, surprisingly, the Crazy one) created a "hole" at LRP last year that cost me about a grand to fix. He apologized...no biggie...but still. I agree Joe was less than tactful...and the reply was in good fun....His car&#39;s rediculously fast....patience should prevail, however you don&#39;t get monikers that hint at your mental status by being patient!! :D

And Jeff, please don&#39;t be nervous when your behind me....I&#39;ll be respectful!!! :birra: :eclipsee_steering: :D

R

[gran racing]

Well Rob, I too am bit surprised that you think there was a HUGE opening. There was an opening, but it would require the pass to be forced. I&#39;m not so sure you would have taken that chance (that&#39;s not a bad thing).

[Doc Bro]

Well Rob, I too am bit surprised that you think there was a HUGE opening. There was an opening, but it would require the pass to be forced. I&#39;m not so sure you would have taken that chance (that&#39;s not a bad thing).
[/b]


Dave,

For Joe that opening was huge. Pretty much undebatable. I&#39;m not Joe. My car&#39;s real expensive to fix. That&#39;s why I&#39;m not at the pointy end. Too much to lose.

R

[gran racing]

Comments were just based on what you wrote. Hopefully I&#39;ll see ya tomorrow.


I would say you had a HUGE opening that I for one would have taken in a heartbeat!!![/b]

[ScotMac]

In all fairness to Greg, he was trying out for the NASCAR of Tomorrow gig. That was the video where I started to question whether I&#39;m aggresive enough.

[/b]

LOL

My brother races INSSA and ICAR, which actually *IS* the equivalent of trying out for NASCAR. He has an ICAR race this weekend. A direct quote from him is that those guys are bunch of "idiots", and they are "really gonna bash up my car", and "it should be a lot of fun". I just hope that, other than Greg, SCCA racing never adopts the "bumping is racing" philosophy of stock car racing.

[benspeed]

Joe got shafted. He hardly leaned on the guy and I doubt there was more than a scratch.

Low percentage move, yes. Relevant to the big wreck at NHIS, yes. Will Joe be involved in another huge wreck on the start, let&#39;s hope not. But if the Miata sought to retaliate that could have been a major pile up.

[ScotMac]

LOL

My brother races INSSA and ICAR, which actually *IS* the equivalent of trying out for NASCAR. He has an ICAR race this weekend. A direct quote from him is that those guys are bunch of "idiots", and they are "really gonna bash up my car", and "it should be a lot of fun". I just hope that, other than Greg, SCCA racing never adopts the "bumping is racing" philosophy of stock car racing.
[/b]

BTW, here is my brothers first win of the season (no "bumping/rubbing" in this one)...notice his first name:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJmjiqp4ohQ

[lateapex911]

Dave,

For Joe that opening was huge. Pretty much undebatable. I&#39;m not Joe. My car&#39;s real expensive to fix. That&#39;s why I&#39;m not at the pointy end. Too much to lose.

R [/b]

That&#39;s not my methodology.....I really think MY car is the last of the priorities when making a decision like that.

My priorities, in order, are:

1-The other guys safety (all)
2- The other guys car
3- my stuff.

If I were there, and I knew there was less than the required space my car needed, then no, no way. It&#39;s not my call to decide if that guy "minds" me breaking off his tire valve, or creasing his fender, or whatever.

If I made the call my car would fit, then yes. Of course, I could be wrong, the decisions need to be made fast, but I&#39;d never try that thinking it was a no fit.

It&#39;s not fair to anyone.

[Eagle7]

That&#39;s not my methodology.....I really think MY car is the last of the priorities when making a decision like that.

My priorities, in order, are:

1-The other guys safety (all)
2- The other guys car
3- my stuff.

If I were there, and I knew there was less than the required space my car needed, then no, no way. It&#39;s not my call to decide if that guy "minds" me breaking off his tire valve, or creasing his fender, or whatever.

If I made the call my car would fit, then yes. Of course, I could be wrong, the decisions need to be made fast, but I&#39;d never try that thinking it was a no fit.

It&#39;s not fair to anyone.
[/b]

:023: :023: :023:

[Tkczecheredflag]

I&#39;ve been trying to keep my mouth shut. I must say I am feeling very safe out here in Ohio as I read this thread.

For me the question is, "Was it a a racing incident - or - was it racing "muscle"?

I think it&#39;s safe to say that we have all crossed the "muscle" line at one time or another. Maybe we were new and inexperienced, maybe we were pissed, maybe we were stupid. Only Joe can answer whether he had a racing incident or he used muscle at eh NASA Nationals. Joe&#39;s question is - was the penality fair or not? - Again only Joe can answer that question. He is asking us to comment (very brave) on the fairness of the penality. What is blatant to me is that there are differing opinions on both ends of the question. On that note, how can you argue the fairness issue - what&#39;s fair ro me might not be fair to you.

I rubbed paint with lots of racers over the years- some of it was avoidable, some of it was not. Some of it I used good judgement and some of it was stupid. Okay, now I&#39;ll say it -"That&#39;s racin&#39; folks".

IMHO - I would be nice if we didn&#39;t loose our "club" mentality and perspective. There are days when I am faster and days that I am slower. In a recnt race at NHIS I was slower that Jeff L. We were battleing for P-3. I could have blocked him the whole race, or I could have opened up and let him go. We raced hard, he was faster than me in T-1,2,3 - I opened up in T-3 and he took P-3. He son Jake was in the Paddock - Do you how much fun it was to see Jake&#39;s face light up when his Dad came Impound? - That&#39;s what this great club is about for me. Yes I like to win or do well - we all do, but there will hopefully be more good days at the track - that day did not belong to me at any cost. Right - I didn&#39;t get the $15.00 trophy - But I got a hell of a lot more - A memory of a kid and his Dad celebrating - You can&#39;t replace that, ever. Let&#39;s keep our focus. Let&#39;s use good judgement, let&#39;s be patient.

Joe and I have history and stories - On this thread I will keep them between us.

Good Luck to all at LRP - "Be safe out there" (Name that show and win - hint: HSB)

[Ed Funk]

:026: Hill Street Blues :happy204: Where&#39;s my F-*&%ing ashtray!?!?

[ajn]

Joe needs a sticker on his front windshield that reads backwards...

"If you can read this...you&#39;re fvcked!"

[lateapex911]

Too funny AJ, ....Jeff Lawtons kid, Jake, calls Joe the "F-bomb man" or something similar...;)