Question about NASA at Barber in October

[BlueStreak]

I've never run a NASA event, but was considering the Barber event in October. My question is, how much track time could I expect over the weekend?

[Cobrar05]

Racing or HPDE? Racing is 3 sessions on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.

[BlueStreak]

Racing or HPDE? Racing is 3 sessions on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.
[/b]


Thanks for the reply, but I'm trying to gage track time. Is a session 5 laps or 15 laps or timed? I've just never even attended any type of NASA event so I am totally clueless as to how like or unlike a NASA event is to a SCCA event.

I hear my SCCA club racing license is accepted by NASA, does this mean I can use my SCCA license at a NASA event or I can use my SCCA license to purchase a NASA license?

Thanks
Eddie

[mbuskuhl]

Thanks for the reply, but I'm trying to gage track time. Is a session 5 laps or 15 laps or timed? I've just never even attended any type of NASA event so I am totally clueless as to how like or unlike a NASA event is to a SCCA event.

I hear my SCCA club racing license is accepted by NASA, does this mean I can use my SCCA license at a NASA event or I can use my SCCA license to purchase a NASA license?

Thanks
Eddie
[/b]


This you will find varies from NASA region to region. While the NASA rules say a SCCA license automatically qualifies you for a NASA license it's really up to each region. When I initially tried to do it, I was sent back a provisional and NASA told me it was up to each region. My region, TX said run a weekend with us so we can see you aren't a danger and we'll sign off on it. They were cool about it and I didn't even have to put on rookie or provisional X's.

I have found NASA TX to be much more track time than SCCA SOWDIV. Generally we get a 15 min practice, 15 min qual, 20 min race# 1, 20 min race# 2 on Sat - (4) sessions. Sunday is 15 min qual, and then either (2) 20 min races #3 and #4 for 3 sessions or just (1) 40 min race #3 and the qualifier.

Obviously things are different for each region, personally, here in TX I get a lot more enjoyment and bang for my buck at NASA. I'll probably only run 1-2 SCCA weekends but all the NASA races in 2008 for various reasons. The attitudes are different, remember, one you are a customer and the other a club member. We don't have but very few IT drivers if any that show up for SCCA, then again SOWDIV SCCA is very National rather than Regional based. Demographics are also different - SCCA here seems to be about an average 10 + years older...more like 40-60yrs and NASA 30-50yrs as an average.

Go do a weekend with NASA and see what you think.

[Zneed4speed]

Hey Eddie,

Usually the sessions are timed. 20-30 minutes.
Look on the NASA SE website and contact the officials, but I think they let you run your first race without buying a license.

[Cobrar05]

NASA race sessions are 10:00 practice, 15:00 qualifying, 20:00 race on Saturday. 10:00 qualifying and 35:00 race on Sunday.

My experience is that track issues always cut the Sunday race back to 18:00 to 20:00 including the pace lap.

[CaptainWho]

I've never run with NASA, but some of their folks have recruited my brother and I pretty heavily at various times, both as drivers and corner workers. This isn't the right place to have the discussion I'd like to have, but I'd like to ask the assembled if they can give me pointers on where would be appropriate to have a more in-depth discussion about NASA and running with them that's not going to be overly colored by the "fanboyz" and such. My brother has spectated at one of their events and we've had long discussions with various reps and we've viewed their promotional materials. But I'm looking for more of an "insider's view" from someone who's done both NASA and SCCA and hopefully other sanctioning bodies, too.

[JeffYoung]

Doug, I've run two NASA events. They were fine; I considered them to be sort of "fun runs" more than anything else.

The positives were the laid back attitude, the amount of track time, the real feeling that NASA treated you with respect and wanted you there.

The downsides were, at least in an IT car, no real intesity to the racing, no real structure to my "run group," and just a lack of "competiveness" of the overall experience.

I will also post something there that I probably should not -- NASA let me run with a "dead" kill switch, they knew about it and let me go out anyway. I shouldn't have done it, but the point is that SCCA would have made me fix it and frankly, that is the correct thing to do.

Despite the occasional frustration with SCCA, right now, I far prefer the competitiveness of a hard fought SEDiv ITS race to going out and turning some laps with a turbo Porsche, a Lotus 7, a couple Miatas and a bitchin' Camaro (I kid you not, that was my "Lightning" run group at Roebling).

[pgipson]

I've never run with the nasa org in the SE, but I have run at least once with every nasa organizer in AZ for the past 10 yrs. That is 6 different people/groups. The nasa franchise seems to change hands about every 18 months to 2 yrs or so.

My experience is that racers are always 2nd class citizens. First in line is any outside group that offers to sublease the track. It could be BMWCCA, PCA, a vintage group or a local car club that wants to offer some track time.

2nd in line is the hpde program. they will get their track time, at the expense of everyone one except the 1st in line.
Then comes this thing called "track attack"

Locally, drifters seem to be next in line

And finally racers get what's left. 2 run groups advertised? consolidate to one and let the racers complain. I ran a whole race once in a mixed run group (open wheel and closed) with an 80's vintage Williams F1 car in the group. I could hear him but not see him. He passed me 5 times in the race and I never got a blue flag from anyone. if I am going to be on track with cars that have a closing rate of 50 mph or more I want to see some good flaggers. I quit running with nasa when they had a 14 yr old kid working the starter's stand by himself in a race.

[chuck baader]

I have run several NASA and SCCA events. My observations is the level of professionalism at the SCCA events far exceeds NASA....but they are new and learning quickly to be user friendly. One of my other concerns is the organization of the race groups.....I really don't like running with spec racers when you can't see their car from yours. Lastly, safety requirements in some of the groups is lacking by SCCA standards. Chuck

[Zneed4speed]

I run SCCA, PCA and NASA in the Southeast.
I have not experienced race time being taken in favor of DE time. I have seen the reverse.
Ask Steve Eckerich about race time being shortened in SCCA :-).
I run one of the core groups, 944 CUP/Supercup so competition is very good and at least a dozen in the class both last year and this. At my last NASA event the tech inspector was the same as my last SCCA event(SIC).
Different strokes for different folks.

[JeffYoung]

RL, I think the higher suscribed NASA series look like a lot of fun -- 944Cup, Spec E30 and Honda Challenge, and that's basically it though.

The problem (one of them anyway) I see with NASA is that even with the successful spec series, car classification is a moving target. Spec Focus? Spec Neon? Spec SE-R? Etc. etc.....it's like NASA throws darts until it hits on something that takes off.

Let me ask you this -- with the recent changes to the weights of ITS cars, do you think more 944 racers will be enticed back to SCCA? Your car, while it is an "S," certainly seems very competitive with the "best" ITS cars in the SEDiv.

[Cobrar05]

I run SCCA, PCA and NASA in the Southeast.
I have not experienced race time being taken in favor of DE time. I have seen the reverse.
Ask Steve Eckerich about race time being shortened in SCCA :-).
I run one of the core groups, 944 CUP/Supercup so competition is very good and at least a dozen in the class both last year and this. At my last NASA event the tech inspector was the same as my last SCCA event(SIC).
Different strokes for different folks.
[/b]

RL, I enjoy the competition in NASA and the people. I intend to continue racing with them for the long term. That said, its important to also be honest about the situation. First of all each NASA region schedules their days differently and my comments may not hold true with regions outside of what I have experienced.

The basic schedule that I have experienced has 3 sessions on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. Depending on turnout they will have 2 or 3 run groups. In the event of 3 groups, practice and qualifying sessions can be scheduled for 10-15 minutes and run as short as 8 minutes. I've had a qualifying session and a race in the last 90 days that lasted just one green flag lap.

I am not sure race time is being taken in favor of DE time, but when DE's are schedule for 5 sessions per day and race groups 5 sessions per weekend it can look that way. It also means that there is very little room for error with the race groups. when you have only two sessions scheduled in a day, it only takes one little thing to cut that track time in half.

Its hard to get an a qualifying session that is 8 minutes from pit lane to checker and then get one green lap in the race then red, then black, the load it up.....While DE has two more sessions still on the schedule.

See my point?