Endurance Championship Series 2008

[Hahn63]

Ok all, I'm starting to put togther next years series. This is your chance to give me your idea's. Please be realistic in your requests. Remember this is an endurance championship not sprint racing. If you are looking for a bunch of 2 and 3 hour events to be included...it won't happen. :dead_horse:

Fire and flame away! :mad1:


Roland

[JohnRW]

Points multiplier for age of drivers.

Bonus points for still having a working stereo/cassette/CD in the car.

"Prettyness points" for teams with least amount of body damage at the end of each race.

Give me a few weeks, I'll come up with more.....

[Knestis]

I don't know what I'd suggest changing, relative to what was sketched out this year. There will probably be ideas about tweaking the points but we don't have enough experience yet to to know for sure what/if anything should be done with them.

Frankly, I'd say leave it alone and let it perk for a couple of years.

K

[Bob Roth]

We would appreciate that tracks with land line corners ie nelson have a radio repeater so teams can scan what's happening. We scanned the frequency recommended but heard little. It really helps to hear about yellows, etc in real time.

next year, we'll be back
bob

[Hahn63]

Bob,

Interesting comment. I will check into it but I believe per the GCR that the system has to be closed looped. Now what I don't know is can it be broadcasted. I'll see what they say. Stay tuned.

Look forward to racing with you guys again. Bring back out your car?

Roland

[Cobrar05]

It would be easier for me to afford races that are 6 hours and under. 12 hours and up and I am having to sell seats in my entry in order afford tires and such.

I hear that the Homestead 12 hour is being replaced by a double 4 hour closer to new year's. Any truth to that?

[Knestis]

>> ...It would be easier for me to afford races that are 6 hours and under.

Interesting. It's easier for me to afford to do the long ones because I CAN provide enough value that people want to share the seat with me.

Of course, the Golf is pretty immune to race length - it just doesn't care. We didn't change brake pads at Nelson in 24 hours, but I'd guess that a Mustang wouldn't have that luxury. :)

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Homestead 12 change format, given the relatively low turn-out they've had. We'd LOVE to add that one to our calendar but the biggest problem is getting the crew necessary to run an enduro, who can take the time/income/vacation hit necessary to travel from the NC area.

K

EDIT - note that this doesn't mean that I'd be fundamentally against the idea of shorter enduros being added to the mix. The points system does a good job of recognizing length as a factor, so it would be interesting to see what options exist.

One other thought - maybe it would be possible to phase in class championships, like if a class gets 5 entries over the duration of the year (just making up a number), then it gets a trophy. 6 warrants 1st and 2nd, etc.

[racechair]

We would appreciate that tracks with land line corners ie nelson have a radio repeater so teams can scan what's happening. We scanned the frequency recommended but heard little. It really helps to hear about yellows, etc in real time.

next year, we'll be back
bob
[/b]

I'm not sure which channel you were listening to. I know the stewards and the safety team are on radio's that can be picked up on a scanner. The corners are another story. They are on a land line and that has to be a closed line. So unless the stewards talk about an incident on the radio, you would know what happened and where. There was some talk at the Neohio board meeting about requiring scanners for next year. Don't quote me on that, I was busy at the time, but we'll see what happens.

[Hahn63]

There was some talk at the Neohio board meeting about requiring scanners for next year. [/b]


I would be very against requiring them. I think what was done this year fine. We don't need another requirment that isn't necessary. :bash_1_:

Roland

[Knestis]

...like $175 worth of number panels for the VIR 13 hours??

Lovely.

K

[JohnRW]

...like $175 worth of number panels for the VIR 13 hours??
[/b]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that that is "a solution looking for a problem".

[Hahn63]

It would be easier for me to afford races that are 6 hours and under.
[/b]


You won't be seeing any races for sure under 6 hours. Keep in mind this is an endurance series. It does cost money and it is very difficult to plan and run. If it wasn't then we would have lots of them. This is a series for the true die hard endurance racers, you gotta want to do it bad! :D


Roland





...like $175 worth of number panels for the VIR 13 hours??

[/b]


Well, since everyone will already have them...I'll put them in as a requirement for the series..... :mad1: I think NOT!!!!!

[Cobrar05]

Well, you asked for input. That was my input.

On a different subject I have been told that the 12 Hr Homestead event has been taken off the schedule and replaced by a double 4 hr thing at Moroso around the holidays.

That was another reason why I suggested shorter events. The longer events are few and becoming fewer.

I will do Summit and VIR.

[Hahn63]

Well, you asked for input. That was my input.

On a different subject I have been told that the 12 Hr Homestead event has been taken off the schedule and replaced by a double 4 hr thing at Moroso around the holidays.

That was another reason why I suggested shorter events. The longer events are few and becoming fewer.

I will do Summit and VIR.
[/b]

I do appreciate your input and your not alone in your request. I have to keep the series more on the endurance side to keep it in the market niche that sponsors are willing to participate. Keep in mind that USERA had made a run at a shorter series format and it didn't go very well( surprised me). I will keep shorter events in mind and see if we can include a few of the best shorter ones but they will not be the core of the format.

I have not heard anything about the Homestead Event. As was said in another post , would not be suprised that a change was in the works as the attendance was not very good at the last event and the location and the time of year didn't help matters.

I will be contacting regions soon to see what they are thinking but it is still way to early to know any details about next year.

I am hoping Kumho will return and other tire companies will join us. I will be trying to get the auto makers to put up some contingency as well. The series is less than a year old and we are still on are feet and slowly growing. Things will change with time , as they must, to meet market and particapation demand. So hang in there and come play when you can , and maybe it will eventally be something you can do on a regular basis.


Roland

[Cobrar05]

We are doing the 3 hour ARRC Enduro as a first step to running Summit Point and VIR next season. We will have a two car Mustang Cobra team with a retired famous name in the driver lineup and an open seat or two.

[Willisbe]

We are doing the 3 hour ARRC Enduro as a first step to running Summit Point and VIR next season. [/b]


Just dive right in. You will learn a great deal more than you would by doing a 3hr. Probably still time to jump on board for VIR.

Jeremy Cesene
#13 ITB
Hillbilly Motorsports
Finisher of the Longest Day 2007

[JohnRW]

Actually, a shorter enduro is a good 'shake-out' if you're planning to do longer enduros. Why ? You start to learn what breaks on the car (and it will break), without sinking major entry and preparation fees.

Not to be a smartazz (who, me ?) but if we have a choice, we always choose to pit next to a V8-powered team at long enduros. Why ? Cuz after about 3-4 hours, we have all sorts of extra space, vacated by the kersploded V8 team. Really. V8 cars are challenging to run in long enduros. If you look at the start/finish ratios of V8 cars for Summit Point/Nelson Ledges/VIR enduros, you'll see what I mean. Reality says your preparation needs to be top-notch, and you have to have reliable equipment and drivers who are soft on that equipment.

[eprodrx7]

couple of things off the top of my head...

Series rules instead of the region's rules for spec classes. We got bumped up to ITS from SM for running Kumhos at SP. But at Nelson SM could run any tire they wanted. We need to be consistent here. There maybe other instances of this type of thing but this directly effected us so it got my attention.

Start the 24 hr earlier. I know that the later start was in consideration of the spectators but until the spectators out number the the participants that need to get to work on Monday am, I say we start at 10am. Better yet lets start at 9 pm on Friday night. Time for many beer on Sat night and plenty of time to get home on Sun. Lets face it Sat morning was a waste of time this year.

Please include provisions in the entry process for multi car teams. SP was a nightmare for us this year. Speaking of SP can we give priority on entries to teams that ran last year and will run instead of teams that are hoping to run?

[Hahn63]

John, the points you brought up are very valid. The big problem with most of them is it is under region control . I will try and work with then on rules but the political road blocks get throwen out very quick when I apporoch any of these subjects. I am working on these areas and will continue to do so. It will take time but I am confident that some of them can be addressed. Thanks for your input!!

Roland

[Bob Roth]

Actually, for those of us that came from 600 miles, this year's schedule worked pretty good, No really early saturday start, Sunday we had trophy's, tear down and head to a hotel by 6:00 on sunday night. I wouldn't change it.

One thing we would ask is that Nelson get a radio repeater for its land line, I sure missed getting reports on yellow's etc from my crew. Several times I came across emergency vehicles that had there been radio loop, my chief would have told me about.

[jjjanos]

Series rules instead of the region's rules for spec classes. We got bumped up to ITS from SM for running Kumhos at SP. But at Nelson SM could run any tire they wanted. We need to be consistent here. There maybe other instances of this type of thing but this directly effected us so it got my attention.[/b]

That's something that has to be addressed directly by the Region hosting the event.


Please include provisions in the entry process for multi car teams. SP was a nightmare for us this year. Speaking of SP can we give priority on entries to teams that ran last year and will run instead of teams that are hoping to run?
[/b]

1. Explain the problem you had as a multi-car team.
2. Priority for past entrants - that is something individual Regions decide. Nor has there been a need for it - I cannot recall a single year in which 55 cars started the event.

[Bob Roth]

Bob,

Interesting comment. I will check into it but I believe per the GCR that the system has to be closed looped. Now what I don't know is can it be broadcasted. I'll see what they say. Stay tuned.

Look forward to racing with you guys again. Bring back out your car?

Roland
[/b]

Roland, we were there in Steve Colletti's Integra. Had so much fun, Dave Volante and I bought a Integra to to dedicate to Endurance racing for Summit and Nelson (at least) next season. The cell is being put in right now !

Say another rule request is (don't make it a rule, make it a suggestion) is that pit generators be 50 feet from the rail and exhaust muffled and facing away from pits. It seems every time, the adjacent team end up with a 1970's 10 hp brigs and stratton generator that makes more noise than power and that they conveniently install it with the rusted out muffler facing the neighbors. Some encouragement in the sups might help their consideration. This is what we saw from our pits!!!! Thanks for putting the race on, we'll be there.


[attachmentid=1142]

[Knestis]

That's the generator I "accidentally" shut off during the driver's meeting. :)

K

[mkahley]

wow we have people crying about the way gennerators are angled. well we wouldent have had that problem if they didnt change the rule about not having trailers in the pits like have been aloud for years. And also if you had a problem you should of said something.

[Hahn63]

wow we have people crying about the way gennerators are angled. well we wouldent have had that problem if they didnt change the rule about not having trailers in the pits like have been aloud for years. And also if you had a problem you should of said something.
[/b]


First off, I don't see how the trailers in pits would change the way people use the generators. You would still have some putting them right in the pit area " so we can keep an eye on them". Second, the trailers are a safety problem, we can't have fifty trailers lined up in a row creating a big wall. Just because it was done before doesn't make it right. Nelson WAS the only place you could do it ( it won't be permitted in the future). I have never seen any other track that allowed it. Repairs that take longer than a couple of minutes should be performed in the paddock. The pit lanes are too small to have a car sitting for repairs , it's not safe!

This stuff is why our rule books and supps get so big. You have to always look at the big picture , not this isn't good for me approach. Everyone has the same rules to live by and these rules you accepted when you signed your name to the entry form. If you don't like the rules either don't run or get invovled with the planning and see how and why some of this comes up..it is an eye opener!!


Roland

[mkahley]

Sorry didnt mean to seam like i was complaning. What i wanted to get out was that people are complaning about which way the gennerators are pointed. I mean come on at that point in the day we have more things to worry about(like the race that is going on insteed of taking pic's and complaning about it later) then if our neighbor is getting fumes/noise from it I mean we are at a race track where it is loud the whole time and it does stink like gas fumes.

And I also think that if they were 50 ft frome the rail it would be in the middle of the road. If you look in the pic they are about 5-10 ft away from the road . I wouldent want my gennerator any closer so some one that hasent slept in 20 hrs hit it.

[eprodrx7]

While it is true that they have never started a full field the fact remains that we could have. I tried to get into the 12hr in 06 and couldn't because of the silly lottery entry system that was used. This year we just barely made it and were lucky at that. The problem was that a single user/email address could not have more then one entry. I run a two and some times three car team. This made for a lot of confusion and it just seemed to me that the scenario of multi car teams had never even been considered.

[GregM]

"Prettyness points" for teams with least amount of body damage at the end of each race.

Give me a few weeks, I'll come up with more.....
[/b]

Hey now Its was pretty till the tow truck got a hold of us :rolleyes:

We just have to let Edwin know the car needs 4 wheels at all times :eclipsee_steering:

[terrya]

Say another rule request is (don't make it a rule, make it a suggestion) is that pit generators be 50 feet from the rail and exhaust muffled and facing away from pits. It seems every time, the adjacent team end up with a 1970's 10 hp brigs and stratton generator that makes more noise than power and that they conveniently install it with the rusted out muffler facing the neighbors. Some encouragement in the sups might help their consideration. This is what we saw from our pits!!!! Thanks for putting the race on, we'll be there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I havent been on this site for a while but I'll check more often, I was your neighbor So if the generator was a problem maybe you should have talked to someone about. And if you look close there was THREE of them there the big Noisey one was used ONLY for pit stops to run our lights. So for you to say it was a problem i dont get. The other 2 small Honda's were used for other things and yes they ran the whole night! just like other's and they were about 45 feet from the rail.



The Start Time needs to be moved up.
we will be back for 08 :D

[ontheapex]

I haven't seen or heard anything official, but the Homestead 12 hour is not on the 2008 schedule, there is, however, an enduro on the 29th of December, 2007 at Moroso.

[Hahn63]

I haven't seen or heard anything official, but the Homestead 12 hour is not on the 2008 schedule, there is, however, an enduro on the 29th of December, 2007 at Moroso.
[/b]


I have seen that. I have heard a bunch of rumors from a 24 to a 12 to double 8's and 4's .

Guess I need to call them and see what they are thinking.

The next question would be IF it fits the series should it be included as the start of the '08 series or should it be skipped and picked-up at the end of the year( meaning dec. '08)?


Roland

[Knestis]

If you're asking for personal opinions, I'm going to have a hard time pulling together an effort for a December race at this point in time. There are several contributing factors that argue for pushing into the "real" 08 series, presuming it runs again:

** It's a new event

** It's in Florida and we've had a hard time recruiting drivers from that far South.

** Anything before the new year starts still falls into the 2007 season for most drivers, and if they haven't budgeted for it, they've spent all of this year's dough.

K

[ontheapex]

I spoke to the Florida Region RE, there will be NO 12 hour race at Homestead. Although the venue is great (Homestead is a fun track), it is just to far south for many folks to make the trip, track time there is EXPENSIVE, and there were problems getting schedules nailed down with track management as well. No word yet on what the format is for the enduro(s??) on 12/29, but if past history (the longest night) is any indicator, it should be fun. I don't think anyone at Florida Region expects the year end event to be included in any series this year, but if it works out well, 2008 could probably be included if everyone wanted it to happen.

[Knestis]

If it's a "real enduro," it should be on the series schedule. Whether any of us really want it on there is less important than building a series that represents the geography that you want to cover. Some folks might think it's OK to leave FL out because it's a long way to travel but them's the breaks sometimes.

This also might bring up the question of dropping events, or similar ideas to mitigate travel. I think it's a shame to do that kind of thing. If the ECS is viewed as an "east coast championship," then any race that fits the parameters of the vision should be included. If it wants to be a "mid-Atlantic" championship, that's a different thing. Or an "amateur national championship series" - again, that's something else.

Define the vision and stick to it.

K

[Hahn63]

My thought was to wait and add it (if it qualifies) at the end of '08. This championship will encompass as much of the United States as possible, but it will expand slowly from the east to the west. I will not water down a series because of location. As the name says Endurance Championship Series, doesn't say any boundries or for that matter organizations.

Roland

[Bob Roth]

This may have already discussed but if not, is there a way for series regular to get preferred entry? We are building a new car for the series but I am concerned about the odds of getting an entry for Summit, which would be our first likely race.

thanks
bob

[Hahn63]

This may have already discussed but if not, is there a way for series regular to get preferred entry? We are building a new car for the series but I am concerned about the odds of getting an entry for Summit, which would be our first likely race.

thanks
bob
[/b]


Bob, That is going to be the biggest sticking point of all. I will see what I can do but the regions have the final say in this area. Once we have a strong series , say 30 plus cars we could have some pull at that point.


Roland

[Knestis]

This is a great point. If we have a bunch of cars registered and committed to the the series, we are more likely to be able to negotiate some consideration. It's not going to be easy but it's worth working on.

K

[Bob Roth]

Here is an idea. I think you have to create an incentive for the tracks to work with and also this series wil stay around a while longer if there is some money involved to pay for the necessities. While doing this, I think its important to avoid writing checks back to racers as I think then it starts looking like a business or lottery

The model that occurs to me is something like a Series points fund, where series cars would pay in say $500 to join series. Say $50 to $100 goes to series expense, $250 goes to the track fund, and the balance goes to tire fund.

For the expenses of the series, you would have some money to make this work, and also to fund trophy's worker ammenities, you name it.

For the Track fund, what I would suggest is to make a deal witht he tracks is that you will pay them equally out of the fund for race miles done if their race sells out and they have a SCCA capacity field. That way, if only Summit sells out, and then there was 10 series cars, they would get $2500 from you.

The tire fund would subsidize free tire serivices (Mount, Balance, Disposal, and maybe a 10% discount on tires) at the track.

I would limit it to 25 cars. What the drivers would get is guaranteed entry, funded series support, and assured tire support at the track.

[jjjanos]

Random comments on going over 12 Hour supps last night.

1. SRFs are in.
2. 1-minute minimum refueling stops are still in.
3. Entrant still must be a driver, however, teams that need to withdraw will be allowed to do so less a handling fee as long as another entrant takes the place of the withdrawn car.
4. Pit lane speeds will kept reasonable. This may be via actual measurement if a roadside radar panel can be rented or it will be subjective. To sum up - slow down.

For those concerned about getting an entry - it takes several days for the event to fill and the event has yet to start the full compliment of 55 cars. If you want to run, then plan on running even if the field fills.

[Knestis]

http://boostrot.net/gallery/d/8028-1/IMG_7254%20_Large_.JPG

Cross-posted from the Sandbox...

This is Ryan Jenkins' new, very best picture of Pablo ever. We're currently first in class and 21st OA, just over 4 hours in.

K

[Knestis]

...For those concerned about getting an entry - it takes several days for the event to fill and the event has yet to start the full compliment of 55 cars. If you want to run, then plan on running even if the field fills.
[/b]
I'm not sure how to interpret this. If the field fills, it fills. With paying renters, I can't show up being the 56th car, just assuming someone will drop out.

Ultimately, the regions need to ask if the series does anything for them. If the fields are NOT full, the answer is probably "yes," since it's another inducement for people to travel from farther away to enter. If the regions decide this is the case, then it seems like some kind of favorable entry deal should be possible. Maybe we have to register for the races at the beginning of the season, and make a real long-term commitment.

If the regions do NOT think series sanction has value, then the next question might be, "so what would it take to make it worth your time?" It might be money - like a series surcharge that guarantees the spot.

The most important thing is that nobody decide prematurely that it's not even worth talking about...

K

[RSTPerformance]

K-

Nice shot of Pablo!!!

Raymond

[jjjanos]

I'm not sure how to interpret this. If the field fills, it fills. With paying renters, I can't show up being the 56th car, just assuming someone will drop out.[/b]

Seemed clear to me...

"For those concerned about getting an entry - it takes several days for the event to fill and the event has yet to start the full compliment of 55 cars. If you want to run, then plan on running even if the field fills."

Teams don't show up or destroy their car during the test day every year. Based on history, simply being present will get you into the race - though, as in all things, there is some risk.

55 doesn't mean the field is filled. It means the Region stops accepting "entries" and begins accepting "wait listers." A full field would be 55 cars taking the green. Shoot, the Region even KNOWS ahead of time that some of these cars are not going to show - usually the weekend prior.

I fail to see how it would matter whether it is a rental car or a driver owned car. In the case of the rental, as long as those paying the freight are aware that they not an official entrant, may not actually compete in the event, and are not getting a full refund of their rental fee if they don't make the race, everyone has full information. If they sign, it's their tough luck if all 55 entrants appear. They knew the risks.

I suppose the Region could be anal and not let someone run, but I doubt it. A phone call the week prior to the event would solve that.

[Knestis]

Sorry - the point was simpler than I gave it credit for being, I guess.

I just don't do things that way - "it's their tough luck..."

K

[Bill Miller]

Seemed clear to me...

"For those concerned about getting an entry - it takes several days for the event to fill and the event has yet to start the full compliment of 55 cars. If you want to run, then plan on running even if the field fills."

Teams don't show up or destroy their car during the test day every year. Based on history, simply being present will get you into the race - though, as in all things, there is some risk.

55 doesn't mean the field is filled. It means the Region stops accepting "entries" and begins accepting "wait listers." A full field would be 55 cars taking the green. Shoot, the Region even KNOWS ahead of time that some of these cars are not going to show - usually the weekend prior.

I fail to see how it would matter whether it is a rental car or a driver owned car. In the case of the rental, as long as those paying the freight are aware that they not an official entrant, may not actually compete in the event, and are not getting a full refund of their rental fee if they don't make the race, everyone has full information. If they sign, it's their tough luck if all 55 entrants appear. They knew the risks.

I suppose the Region could be anal and not let someone run, but I doubt it. A phone call the week prior to the event would solve that.
[/b]

Yeah, have fun with that. Yet another stellar example of the customer-centric nature of the SCCA!

[jjjanos]

Yeah, have fun with that. Yet another stellar example of the customer-centric nature of the SCCA!
[/b]

NOBODY gets turned away who has an entry. The Region is limited to 50 cars on the track at one time, and as part of its customer-centric nature, applies for a 5-car-addition waiver. People who show up without an entry, knowing the event is full, should do so knowing there is a risk they will not start. It is no different for SCCA or any organization selling space for a space-constrained event. If you show up for a sold-out concert and do not have a ticket, do you consider the arena as less then customer-centric?

I'm not certain what lead you to make such an idiotic and foolish statement unless it is somehow inherent in your nature. At first I thought it was a joke, but the absence of a emoticon suggests otherwise. Clearly, someone in SCCA did not treat you with the care you expect, though probably with the care you deserve.


I just don't do things that way - "it's their tough luck..."[/b]
If your car was totalled in the first stint, do you refund the rental fee for the rest of your drivers? If not, "it's their tough luck..." Does anyone not in the car at the time of that accident or catastrohic, race-ending engine failure need to chip in for repairs? If so, "it's their tough luck..." Heck, at least paying for the cost of getting the crew/car there is something all of the drivers caused.

[JIgou]

Back to the point that I presonally was taking away from this....

Let's just say you've got a team from...oh, I don't know...the midwest (as in Wisconsin/Iowa/Missour "Midwest", not Ohio "Midwest"). Let's say they want to participate in the overall championship series.

Then let's say they miss out on the lottery for a slot in a given event - let's call it "SP".

What I'm taking away from this is that they should go ahead and tow halfway across the country on the hopes that a car/team has to withdraw, but knowing the whole time that there's a chance that no one crashes out or no one withdraws?

I know that "Past History" shows that the event at SP has never started its full contingent of 55 cars. My question is how extensive is that "Past History?" Are we talking 50 years, or are we talking 5 years? 10 years?

Jarrod

[jjjanos]

I know that "Past History" shows that the event at SP has never started its full contingent of 55 cars. My question is how extensive is that "Past History?" Are we talking 50 years, or are we talking 5 years? 10 years?
[/b]

9 years in the books. 10th event will be the 2008 event.

It took several days to fill the 55 slots. I believe entries start to be accepted mid-March and 55 are filled by late March. It's a June event. Teams planning on making long tows and running the series would be advised to get their entry submitted during that window or face the possibility that they need to roll the dice.

The 55 slots have been filled nearly every year. We just don't see all 55 cars. The number of shadow entrants dropped considerably once the Region decide the entry had to be paid upfront with no refund if the slot you occupy goes unfilled.

NCR and WDC host event specific websites where unlucky teams can ask if anyone occupying a slot won't be using it. The event registration person will know too. Basicaaly, there is no reason why a team with a prepared car that did not get one of the 55 slots shouldn't be able to take the green.

[Hahn63]

Ok , calm down everyone. I'm not sure how I will do it but , I WILL make sure that for all events in the series , if you are pre-entered at the beginning of the year you'll be in the race. You may have to prepay or something like that but everyone that is in the series will have the opportunity to get in.


Roland

[Cobrar05]

My 2008 schedule is starting to fill with commitments. Any idea when the ECS '08 schedule can be seen? At least a tentative schedule.

[Hahn63]

Waiting for all the SCCA regions to give me the results of the scheduling meetings . Expect a tentative schedule in Dec.
I would expect 12 at summit , 13 at VIR and the 24 at nelson will stay the same dates. 12 at Homestead looks like it's dead.

Other races may be add, still waiting for some information.

Roland

[Gregg]

The Twelve Hours at the Point is tentatively scheduled for June 13/14 (approx. 2wks later than last year).

[jjjanos]

I would expect 12 at summit , 13 at VIR and the 24 at nelson will stay the same dates. 12 at Homestead looks like it's dead.
[/b]

Tentative dates 10th Annual Kumho Tires 12 Hours at the Point - June 13th, June 14th 2008.

Qualifying tentatively a single 40-minute session.

Race start unchanged.

[Krysd]

The KUMHO Homestead 12 hour is NOT going to happen, it may come back at some point in the future, but not this season and, probably not at Homestead, it is just to far for many competitors to tow and it is EXPENSIVE for the Region which translates to expensive to the competitors.

Although the GCR limits the cars on track to 25 per mile, 3.4.2.c gives the Divisional Executive Steward the latitude to increase that number (it also allows the E. S. to reduce the number if necessary to provide a safe racing environment), but there is no limit for that overage in the GCR, that is entirely up to the descretion of the Executive Steward, so it could be five or even seven or more if the E. S. feels it is safe, and he/she is going to rely on the Chief Steward for the event to help make that decision.

The GCR 4.7.3 mandates that entry fees be refunded if the entry is formally withdrawn (in writing or by wire) prior to the entry deadline date (usually about 2 weeks), after the deadline date, return of entry fees is at the discretion of the Region.

Not yelling at anyone, just thought it was information that might be pertinent.

Krys

[jjjanos]

The GCR 4.7.3 mandates that entry fees be refunded if the entry is formally withdrawn (in writing or by wire) prior to the entry deadline date (usually about 2 weeks), after the deadline date, return of entry fees is at the discretion of the Region.
[/b]

The supps can override jsut about anything in the GCR. If SCCA approves them, they become the rules. For example, SCCA can throw out the fuel rules and require people to use a specified fuel that they sell. It would make for an interesting protest/appeals process if a Region, say, allowed certain cars to run 7 inch rims in ITB or unilaterally moved, say a certain Toyota, from ITA to ITB.

In the case of the Point, for 2007, entries were accepted on March 15. If you withdrew prior to April 29, you got fee less $250 back. If you withdrew after that, you got NADA. (Which really did nothing to encourage a team to give up its slot to a team that actually could run.)

There's going to be some changes made in the withdrawal rules. For example, your entrant doesn't have to drive with permission of the chief steward - what do you do if your entrant breaks his arm prior to the getting in the car? Teams will get a refund less fee, I believe, if the slot is taken by someone else, but waitlist teams get first crack.

[Krysd]

The key, of course, is IF SCCA approves the supps.

Krys

[jjjanos]

The key, of course, is IF SCCA approves the supps.

Krys
[/b]

Frankly, I think SCCA would approve supps that said...

1. We hold race.

#### end of supps ### :P

[racechair]

Frankly, I think SCCA would approve supps that said...

1. We hold race.

#### end of supps ###


I beg to differ. :018: I have been a racechair for a long time. Until you put tegether a race, you have no idea what is involved. Roland found out the hard way. I have had to jump through many hoops to get supps approved. I think after dealing with me over the years, they all know me. :eclipsee_steering: