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Rabbit07
09-13-2007, 07:54 AM
I am in the market for a new tow vehicle. I can't afford the deisel anything, so I am shopping for gas powered trucks. I can get a very good price on a 2500 Chevy right now. Does anyone have any comments on these? How is the fuel economy? Does it really have enough power to pull 8000-9000 lbs? Brakes? Issues?

Thanks!

Greg Amy
09-13-2007, 08:31 AM
Chris, I am not familiar with the Chevies, but I'm real sweet on the Ford 6.8L V-10.

It's a real nice engine, silky smooth and lots of torque and horsepower. My '99 E-350 - which is three head generations back - still pulls the 7000# 8-foot-box, 24-foot-long trailer nicely, at an average of 7mpg. It pulled Jeff Lawton's open trailer with my NX on it - and the back of the van FILLED with tools and equipment - literally like it wasn't there, at an average of 11 mpg. With only family in the back of the 15-passenger van, I average 14 mpg.

The latest generations of V-10 have much better heads: much freer flowing, plus more valves. Whereas the diesel grunts down low, the gasser loves to rev. Plus, when you're cruising in the paddock or backing it in at home in the middle of the night it's vewy, vwey qwuiet...

Obviously, with gas prices the way they are today, you can pick up (har-de-har) an F-350 with the 6.8L at bargain-basement prices. I'd recommend 2000 or later for the freer-flowing heads, or even 2005 or later for the increased number of intake valves.

For fuel/purchase cost reference, I've spent about $7000 on fuel for the truck over the last 3 years/30,000 miles. At best, I figure I've spent $1700 more in fuel than if I'd bought a diesel. But, I only paid $9,000 for the van, whereas a comparable diesel was averaging $15,000.

Knowing what I know now, that I'd be pulling a 24-foot enclosed, I'd likely give diesel a greater consideration. However, I think the later-gen V-10s are easily as capable as the diesel, at a significantly lower price. - GA

lateapex911
09-13-2007, 08:55 AM
Greg, for reference, what are the hp and tq stats on that engine?

(My 5.3 2001 Chevy (GMC) is hard pressed with a narrow enclosed. It's rated at just under 300 hp and I can't remember the tq. I'll look it up. I loves to rev while towing.)

Wreckerboy
09-13-2007, 09:08 AM
According to the Ford web site, the newest ('07) vans equipped with the V10 are rated at 305 HP @ 3250 RPM, and 420 lb./ft at the same speed, which is what (AFAIR) my '04 E350 makes. For comparison, the oil burner makes 235 @ 3300 and 440 @2000. The pick ups are rated at somewhat more (362/457), and conventional wisdom has either it that they have far less restrictive exhausts than the vans, or that the vans are downrated because of exhaust temp issues and cabin comfort. Take your pick.

I echo everything GA said - it all comes down to ROI, and for the light user (less than say 50-75K per year), it's just not there for the diesel when you factor in the increased purchase and maintenance price. And V10's are stoopid cheap - I bought my '04 E350 XLT (full interior) in mid '05 with 16K on it for about $19K. My MPG with an open trailer is around 12, and I can see 15 on the highway if I can ever keep my foot out of it.

NutDriverRighty
09-13-2007, 09:42 AM
I have a 1995 F350 XLT diesel dually 5 sp for sale right now. It has the 7.3L turbo diesel in it. I bought it from John Finger and he had it for his daughter, Amy, to drag her gooseneck horse trailer around. It isn't pretty, but it'll just about tow the house. Extra cab, longbed, gooseneck hitch (if you need it), but also has a topper on it (since I have an open tag trailer). Has about 120K miles on it, dual tanks, etc. Scaling back my racing a bit and don't need a truck payment sitting in the driveway 300+ days per year. I don't know HP and lb/ft numbers, but it sounds like others do. Just put a K&N filter in it and I average 15 or so without a load. Will get about 13 with one. If you (or anyone else) has any interest, let me know.

Scott Franklin
ITA/7 and SPU Baby Grand "clown cars" (one with FJ, the other with Hayabusa)
www.NutDriver.org

Rabbit07
09-13-2007, 09:43 AM
Thanks fo rthe info guys!

I have towed with the Ford V10's and they are nice.

I have a G30 Chevy van right now with a 350 TBI, and have been using it for about the last 5 years. I like vans and have had them for about 12 yrs now. It gets 12 mpg empty on the highway and 6.2 towning the beast!

The real issue right now is I can get a New 2500HD 2wd for just a little over $20,000 right now. I may need to act quickly to make it happen. The price along with it being a new truck in the same color as my trailer has me tempted. I would buy this thing and drive it for 10+ yrs. I am looking to make sure I am making the right choice for my $. My 350 has been a been sluggish all along towing my 24' trailer. The trip to Lime Rock last year nearly killed it! I want to be sure that it has enough grunt to get the job done. I plan on doing more traveling next year, Atlanta, Sebring, ect, so I want something that will not give me any crap about towing up and down grades ect.

tnord
09-13-2007, 09:43 AM
yeah, i think you can do an 8-9k lb enclosed with the 6.0. i know a guy who hauls his AS with one and loves it. says he gets 9mpg hauling though. 14 around town.

iirc the 6.0 is like 330hp and 370ft/lbs. our 5.3 has 315ft/lbs, the new ones have 330. i've been shopping trucks a little lately, and i think my ideal setup is a 1500 6.0 hauling a 20 or 22' aluminum V nose.

i don't think i like the V10. i pulled a 24' unloaded enclosed with a F350 from Des Moines to KC once and i wasn't impressed. Another friend has been through at least 1, but i think 2 motors under warranty in his F250. I think there's a certain run of PSD's that are good, but if you're going gas, i think the GM stuff is where it's at.

Greg Amy
09-13-2007, 10:20 AM
Greg, for reference, what are the hp and tq stats on that engine?[/b]
Jake, my '99 in the van is 265/410 hp/tq, but as Rob pointed out *all* vans have de-rated engines versus the trucks. The 1999 F-350 pickup was 275/410, the '03 310/425, and the '07 362/457.

I spend a lot of time on the V10 forum on Ford-trucks.com, and Travis' friend's experience is way beyond abnormal. I've never heard of service problems like that before. The #1 biggest service complaint is the same as all Ford modulars: lack of sufficient spark plugs threads on earlier engines. When plugs are changed incorrectly (e.g., incorrect torque is used) they can pull the threads and spit out plugs. This was resolved post-2003(?). - GA

Rabbit07
09-13-2007, 10:28 AM
Jake, my '99 in the van is 265/410 hp/tq, but as Rob pointed out *all* vans have de-rated engines versus the trucks. The 1999 F-350 pickup was 275/410, the '03 310/425, and the '07 362/457.

I spend a lot of time on the V10 forum on Ford-trucks.com, and Travis' friend's experience is way beyond abnormal. I've never heard of service problems like that before. The #1 biggest service complaint is the same as all Ford modulars: lack of sufficient spark plugs threads on earlier engines. When plugs are changed incorrectly (e.g., incorrect torque is used) they can pull the threads and spit out plugs. This was resolved post-2003(?). - GA
[/b]


Greg,

I too know of some V10 Ford engine failures. Ford has done a good job of keeping a lid on it. They have oiling issues just like the 4.6/5.4 that can cause bearing failures ect. Along with the constantly failing coil packs.

Greg Amy
09-13-2007, 10:36 AM
I too know of some V10 Ford engine failures. Ford has done a good job of keeping a lid on it.[/b]
No insult intended, but I laughed when I read that. Like you can keep a lid on ANYTHING with the Internet!!!

Not saying it can't happen, but it has to be pretty damn rare.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

Jake
09-13-2007, 10:38 AM
Click Here (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/past-road-test/full-sized-pickups-9-07/full-sized-pickup-videos/0709_car_video.htm) to see the videos of the Trucks we tested last month. IMHO, Diesel's are the only way to get an HD.

Also note that the 150/1500 trucks for the most part can do up to 10,000lbs - and they are a LOT better to live with for the 90% of the time you aren't towing.

tnord
09-13-2007, 10:50 AM
Also note that the 150/1500 trucks for the most part can do up to 10,000lbs - and they are a LOT better to live with for the 90% of the time you aren't towing.
[/b]

eh....i dunno about that 10,000 lb thing. i'm guessing i'm hauling about 5k on the hitch and 800lbs in the bed and i wouldn't want to do anything more.

just cause the manual says you CAN do it, doesn't mean it makes for a relaxing (or swift) journey. i might hook up 10k to it if i'm just pulling it 10miles or something, but no way am i hauling 10k to a race track.

Greg Amy
09-13-2007, 10:50 AM
...they are a LOT better to live with for the 90% of the time you aren't towing.[/b]
I agree, Jake.

This past June Jeremy and I used his new F-350 Super Duty (diesel) to tow my trailer to HyperFest (Summit Point, ~6-7 hours). That thing towed like a DREAM! Yes, you "noticed" the trailer was back there, but when you dipped in the throttle the truck made up the speed loss up the hill a lot faster. Nice pulling truck.

But, it rode like a truck. Jeremy said he's used to it now, but that 1-ton truck rode HARD. Even with the tag trailer loaded we'd hit a bump and we really felt it; coming back through Jersey across I-78 was like driving on railroad ties.

But DAMN that thing pulled nice.

I did have one other problem with it: we were able to tow so fast (75-80 versus a typical 65-70 in my van) and so long (kept a' goin' no matter what) that I blew a trailer tire somewhere in PA. Plus side, with that truck I almost didn't notice it; had to look in the rear-views in order to see the parts flappin' around...)

Nice work truck, but I think I'd get tired of driving that every day. Jeremy loves it, though. - GA

tnord
09-13-2007, 10:53 AM
But, it rode like a truck. Jeremy said he's used to it now, but that 1-ton truck rode HARD. Even with the tag trailer loaded we'd hit a bump and we really felt it; coming back through Jersey across I-78 was like driving on railroad ties.

[/b]

FWIW...that F350 V10 longbed i pulled with was absolutely the worst riding truck i've ever been in, even worse than the 2500 Cummins i rode in a couple weeks ago.

Wreckerboy
09-13-2007, 11:04 AM
FWIW, my E350 (12 passenger, not the longer 15 pass like GA's) is not the most cushy thing in the world to ride around in empty either. It helps to lower the rear tire pressures from 80 for towing down to 60, but not much. Then again, it basically goes to the track or to The Big Orange Parts Store or it sits so the tire pressures are usually just left up there at "granite."

I may have to take it to North Carolina in two weeks (empty) to bring back some parts and I am not looking forward to it. My dentist and nephrologist see it differently and are planing lavish vacations accordingly....

Rabbit07
09-13-2007, 11:06 AM
It's funny to me to hear people complain when a truck rides like a truck :D

Keep in mind it is a truck. Every 1 ton or 3/4 ton I have ever owned rides very harshly. Doesn't concern me a bit. I live in Michigan with the worst roads in the country.

lateapex911
09-13-2007, 11:31 AM
jeremy's situation leads to an interesting aspect as well. He's selling his race car, getting his MBA, and has....a truck that rides like it has concrete blocks for springs...

so....be sure of your long term plans, or, be ok with the used value you will get back selling it if you have to.

Also, high mileage versions of the HD trucks rattle and shake and give europeans more fodder for their "American cars are peices of crap" claims, LOL. (They destroy themselves, essentially)

tnord
09-13-2007, 11:47 AM
jeremy's situation leads to an interesting aspect as well. He's selling his race car, getting his MBA, and has....a truck that rides like it has concrete blocks for springs...

so....be sure of your long term plans, or, be ok with the used value you will get back selling it if you have to.

Also, high mileage versions of the HD trucks rattle and shake and give europeans more fodder for their "American cars are peices of crap" claims, LOL. (They destroy themselves, essentially)
[/b]

part of the reason i think a 1500 with the 6.0 is the best compromise. a 2500 over a 1500 with the same trim will cost a couple extra grand right? so why not save that couple g's on the truck and spend it on an alum trailer instead? you'd have a far better DD, and a NICE trailer that even stays cool in the blazing sun.

Jeremy Billiel
09-13-2007, 11:48 AM
jeremy's situation leads to an interesting aspect as well. He's selling his race car, getting his MBA, and has....a truck that rides like it has concrete blocks for springs...

so....be sure of your long term plans, or, be ok with the used value you will get back selling it if you have to.

Also, high mileage versions of the HD trucks rattle and shake and give europeans more fodder for their "American cars are peices of crap" claims, LOL. (They destroy themselves, essentially)
[/b]

Jake one of the other advantages of the diesel that has not been talked about is resale value. Their are so few diesel truck for sale, that I could go out and sell mine after one year and make money on it. (V10's? No so...)If you go diesel, the dodge cummins is by far the best engine, but the truck itself IMO sucks.

I went with the Ford for 3 simple reasons.
1. Resale
2. Quality (I know this is funny, but they are the best of the Big 3)
3. Style

When I went to the dealers and researched the market extensively, it was a no brainer to go diesel when towing.

Have you looked at the 8100 in the HD? I would not even consider the 6.0L

tnord
09-13-2007, 11:50 AM
Have you looked at the 8100 in the HD? I would not even consider the 6.1L
[/b]

the 8100 is one bad mutha. too bad it's thirstier than a biker in a harley bar on dollar-draw night.

Jake
09-13-2007, 12:54 PM
FWIW I've personally towed 7500lbs with the Tundra 5.7 and it was excellent. I'd have no problem pulling that load across the country. Furthermore, it easily out accelerated any of the Diesel HD's with that same load in tow. Our crew cab model had a 10,200lb towing capacity.

Not to mention it costs much less than the HDs, brakes much better, and gets far better fuel economy of even the Diesels.

Jake

pballance
09-13-2007, 01:22 PM
A couple of data points for you. A buddy bought an '03 8.1 Crew Cab 2500 2wd this year and I bought an '03 Duramax Crew Cab 2500 4wd. Same bed length on both (6.5')

He tows an enclosed 24' tag with a DSR in the back. I tow an 18' open with tire rack/boxes/ and a Z car.

He has some troubles on some of the hills and with aero at interstate speeds. I have no problems with either thanks to the diesel and open trailer. He gets about 8 mpg towing and 12-13 in town. I have seen has high as 18 towing but it is normally around 16 and I get 19-20 in town.

I looked for an 8.1 gas burner but they are few and far between. He paid about 17k for his and I paid 23k for mine. Both had about 80k miles. So about a 6k difference in price.

I think the really good thing with the HD series is the Allison tranny. It is absolutely great. For me it was the deciding factor. If I could have found a gas burner I would have bought it but like was said before they are hard to come by right now.

FWIW, I have 3 F350 duallies that we use at work. All are 2008 and my '03 Chevy will run circles around them. The Ford is good but I still like the chevy tranny. If we could get an Allison tranny with a 7.3 Ford Diesel it would be sweet.

YMMV

JoshS
09-13-2007, 01:38 PM
the 8100 is one bad mutha. too bad it's thirstier than a biker in a harley bar on dollar-draw night.
[/b]
No doubt. I have a 3/4-ton Suburban with the 8.1L and 4.10 rear end, which is good for towing 12K lbs as a tag. Most trucks support that much weight only as a gooseneck/5th wheel.

I am averaging, long-term, 11.6 mpg without the trailer, in mixed driving, and 7.8 mpg with the trailer, which is a TPD enclosed triple-axle 24', weighs probably 7500lbs, and has extra height. But yeah, the towing performance is amazing. Prior to this trailer I was towing a 40' aluminum gooseneck with 2 cars, towing with a Chevy Duramax diesel, and let me say that I think that this 8.1L tows every bit as well as that diesel did. Of course, the fuel mileage isn't as good.

Unfortunately to get the 8.1L now, you have to buy used.

944-spec#94
09-13-2007, 02:06 PM
Back in 2002 I was looking for a tow vehicle. I wanted diesel, but the cost was too high even used.

I fould a 99 Dodge 2500 with 8.0L V10. I got that for 2/3 the price of a diesel. I love it for towing.

That motor makes 300 hp and 450ft-lbs of torque. Same torque as the diesels of the day and more hp. The motor is very smooth and very quiet. I can find gas anywhere and it is cheaper than diesel. It has the same chassis as a diesel, but with less overall weight. It pulls very well.

The only downside is that it uses gas. 9-10 mpg towing an open trailer with lost of stuff under the contractor shell at 65-75 mph and about 12-13 mpg empty.

jlucas
09-13-2007, 09:14 PM
Chris, I've also been looking into 2500HDs (older ones though). The 6 speed automatics on the new trucks will help the fuel economy over the number people have been getting with the prior transmissions.

mowog
09-13-2007, 10:32 PM
I have a 2005 Chevy Dually, my significant other has a 2003, both have the 8.1 gas motor and Allison transmission. Although 2 years apart, they are virtually identical . Both of us have 20' trailers we tend to overload, and we both carry lots of stuff in the truck bed (trucks have caps). Gas mileage is between 8 mpg (75+mph) and almost 10 mpg (50-55 mph). We both love them as tow monsters, but otherwise keep them parked as much as possible. They ride very well, and no complaints about brakes. I don't even mind when I have to drive the truck to work - but then it's a large parking lot, so docking it isn't a big deal. I do avoid driving to lunch though - it's that parking thing. This would be less of an issue with SRW and maybe a shorter bed or cab. The only problem I've had is the extending mirrors - they hang up, and alignment issues that have eaten my front tires. Another racer who owns a retail tire business recently advised me to put lots of weight in the back and get it realigned, seems to be a common problem when the vehicle is almost exclusively used for towing something with heavy tongue weight. My other half has had some air conditioner problems and electrical gremlins, all fixed under warranty. We probably average 7000 or more towing miles each year. When I'm ready to buy another tow truck, I'll be buying another Chevy.

tnord
09-14-2007, 08:31 AM
The 6 speed automatics on the new trucks will help the fuel economy over the number people have been getting with the prior transmissions.
[/b]

great point. i totally forgot the 6sp were coming out soon. hopefully i can get a couple more years out of mine and then step up to one of those

x-ring
09-14-2007, 08:34 AM
... but then it's a large parking lot, so docking it isn't a big deal... [/b]

I almost spit coffee on my screen when I read that. You need to put a warning up before you post something like that, Chris. :D

I know where you're coming from, though. I tow with an F350 long bed crew cab, and I too leave it at home as much as I can.

zchris
09-14-2007, 10:01 AM
I have a 2500HD 6.0 standard cab 2wd standard cab. 8mpg towing a 20' enclosed at 75 mph. The ride is horrible unloaded. They are less expensive than the 1500. I payed 17.6k for mine new in 03. I bought it for the big tranny that went bad in less than 10k miles. Has 65k miles now with no other problems. Tried the Bilstiens to help ride quality. Did not help do anything but lighten my wallet. If I did not need the trailer to double as a garage, I would go back to an open trailer and a 1/2 ton pickup. Much better mileage and a smoother ride. I may consider an garage addition soon.
Chris Howard

tnord
09-14-2007, 10:08 AM
I have a 2500HD 6.0 standard cab 2wd standard cab. 8mpg towing a 20' enclosed at 75 mph. The ride is horrible unloaded. They are less expensive than the 1500. I payed 17.6k for mine new in 03. I bought it for the big tranny that went bad in less than 10k miles. Has 65k miles now with no other problems. Tried the Bilstiens to help ride quality. Did not help do anything but lighten my wallet. If I did not need the trailer to double as a garage, I would go back to an open trailer and a 1/2 ton pickup. Much better mileage and a smoother ride. I may consider an garage addition soon.
Chris Howard
[/b]

chris -

would you think the 6.0 in a 1500 would be 'the best of both worlds' option?

spnkzss
09-14-2007, 10:31 AM
chris -

would you think the 6.0 in a 1500 would be 'the best of both worlds' option?
[/b]

That is my goal I think. I kicked aroound the idea of the 2500 for quite a while. WOuld love the diesel, but can't justify the extra $7000-$8000 more when I tow 6-8 times a year. I love my '02 Z71 with the 5.3. I actually tow a 20' enclosed that acts as a garage. I don't have too much trouble other then braking with it. I find just stick it in 3rd gear, hit the tow button and maintain 60-65mph and I'm good. 9.5mpg.

tnord
09-14-2007, 10:41 AM
i think any gasser towing an enclosed will get 9mpg.

i'm hauling an 18' open with a tire rack and a miata on the deck between 72-75mph on pretty flat land in 4th and get 11mpg. this is assuming there's not much wind though, which hardly ever happens in the Kansas/Nebraska/Iowa region i mostly tow in. 2200-2500rpm range in 4th at 72-75mph seems to be the sweet spot for revs vs wind resistance.

Beran
09-14-2007, 09:56 PM
Gas is not good for towing anything more than 3,500lbs - just not going to get any gas mileage.
Diesel is the way to go. A diesel engine is 30% more efficient then the gas one of the same displacement due to the high compression ratio. I purchased an 05 crew cab silverado 2500HD 4x4 6.6 work truck... It has NO options except AC. The sticker was amazing cheap. It turned out that this work truck new was cheaper than most used trucks. Look at the chevy work truck.. they are hard to find but you can find them. (rubber floor etc.)
It tows awesome and I get great gas mileage. Without towing I can get over 19MPG. I have owned 7+ chevy trucks over the years and this motor and tranny combination is amazing. The alison has a "tow" setting and it down shifts to slow you down etc. Best tranny I have ever had.
It is a full size truck so it's bigger then the 1500 but when it comes to towing the full size pays off. Round town its probably bigger then you want. Gas mileage is going to always be 30% better with the diesel.
just my .02

tnord
09-15-2007, 09:13 AM
Gas is not good for towing anything more than 3,500lbs - just not going to get any gas mileage.
Diesel is the way to go. A diesel engine is 30% more efficient then the gas one of the same displacement due to the high compression ratio. I purchased an 05 crew cab silverado 2500HD 4x4 6.6 work truck... It has NO options except AC. The sticker was amazing cheap. It turned out that this work truck new was cheaper than most used trucks. Look at the chevy work truck.. they are hard to find but you can find them. (rubber floor etc.)
It tows awesome and I get great gas mileage. Without towing I can get over 19MPG. I have owned 7+ chevy trucks over the years and this motor and tranny combination is amazing. The alison has a "tow" setting and it down shifts to slow you down etc. Best tranny I have ever had.
It is a full size truck so it's bigger then the 1500 but when it comes to towing the full size pays off. Round town its probably bigger then you want. Gas mileage is going to always be 30% better with the diesel.
just my .02
[/b]

at least in my case, my truck does daily duty as well as towing. getting something as bare bones is that isn't too liveable on a daily basis. not to mention many of us can't plop down 20k for something we'll use about 8x/year.

Rabbit07
09-15-2007, 05:26 PM
Thanks agian for everyone's comments. I am going to go ahead and buy the truck. I can't see any cons in my case. The fuel economy and HP are better than I have now and the price is right. I did look into the work truck and a new work truck doesn't have the incentives the truck I am going to buy has. I am getting a truck that stickers at close to 30K for 2/3 the cost. If I need more power I'll just have to put a hair dryer on it!

Anyone want a 1996 G30 with 100 K on it? I'll even wash it first :D

jlucas
09-16-2007, 07:01 AM
I love my '02 Z71 with the 5.3. I actually tow a 20' enclosed that acts as a garage. I find just stick it in 3rd gear, hit the tow button and maintain 60-65mph and I'm good. 9.5mpg.
[/b]
Anybody with a 2500HD that can share what their fuel economy is towing an enclosed? (truck year, 2wd/4wd, trailer size, and tow speed are all important to know, thanks)

Getting real close to pulling the trigger on an 04 2500HD, 6.0L, 2wd, work trim grade that my brother in law has for sale. He hasn't used it much for towing at all and he's got an extended warranty.

zchris
09-16-2007, 03:40 PM
Jeremy, read post 29.
Chris

jlucas
09-17-2007, 08:26 AM
Jeremy, read post 29.
Chris
[/b]
Yup, caught that one. I was hoping for some more reports.

Rabbit07
09-17-2007, 08:37 AM
Yup, caught that one. I was hoping for some more reports.
[/b]
Jeremy,

Give me a couple weeks and I'll have some answers for you.

jlucas
09-17-2007, 09:17 PM
Yours will be too new. :)

Couple of reports I've gotten recently:
2004 2500HD extended cab, 6.0, 4wd - 75-80mph towing flatbed with 5000lb Econoline van on it = 10-11mpg
Also 28 ft enclosed same fuel economy, but economy drops to 9-10 if the speed drops to 70-75 (yes, I double checked, evidently above 75 is a sweet spot that keeps the tranny humming along in overdrive and doesn't require much downshifting) Only mod is K&N intake but that had a noticeable fuel economy benefit (almost 1mpg).

Met someone at Barber this weekend who tows a 2 car open trailer with a 2000-2003 generation 2500HD extended cab and said he liked it better than the v10 he had previously but did not track fuel economy.

BTW, I've heard good things over on the gm-truck forum about some ECU tuning that helps with fuel economy.

Rabbit07
09-18-2007, 06:45 AM
Yours will be too new. :)

Couple of reports I've gotten recently:
2004 2500HD extended cab, 6.0, 4wd - 75-80mph towing flatbed with 5000lb Econoline van on it = 10-11mpg
Also 28 ft enclosed same fuel economy, but economy drops to 9-10 if the speed drops to 70-75 (yes, I double checked, evidently above 75 is a sweet spot that keeps the tranny humming along in overdrive and doesn't require much downshifting) Only mod is K&N intake but that had a noticeable fuel economy benefit (almost 1mpg).

Met someone at Barber this weekend who tows a 2 car open trailer with a 2000-2003 generation 2500HD extended cab and said he liked it better than the v10 he had previously but did not track fuel economy.

BTW, I've heard good things over on the gm-truck forum about some ECU tuning that helps with fuel economy.
[/b]

The one that I am getting is the Classic, so it shouldn't be that different? I too have seen some info on some Cals that seem to help these trucks out.

240zdave
09-19-2007, 11:24 AM
Thanks fo rthe info guys!

I have towed with the Ford V10's and they are nice.

I have a G30 Chevy van right now with a 350 TBI, and have been using it for about the last 5 years. I like vans and have had them for about 12 yrs now. It gets 12 mpg empty on the highway and 6.2 towning the beast!

The real issue right now is I can get a New 2500HD 2wd for just a little over $20,000 right now. I may need to act quickly to make it happen. The price along with it being a new truck in the same color as my trailer has me tempted. I would buy this thing and drive it for 10+ yrs. I am looking to make sure I am making the right choice for my $. My 350 has been a been sluggish all along towing my 24' trailer. The trip to Lime Rock last year nearly killed it! I want to be sure that it has enough grunt to get the job done. I plan on doing more traveling next year, Atlanta, Sebring, ect, so I want something that will not give me any crap about towing up and down grades ect.
[/b]
I have a 2002 GMC 2500HD 2wd crew cab that I have been towing a 20 foot Haulmark enclosed trailer with for about 4 years. Mine has the Allison automatic transmission with a towing setting, which basically raises the shift points another 500-1000 RPM's. The towing package included prewire for an electric brake controller, so I just had to buy one and hook it up. I use a load-leveling hitch with an anti-sway bar, and the truck tows like it's on rails, even when being passed by a semi. I added a Gibson catback, dual exhaust system, which frees up a little more horsepower. The truck is great to drive while towing, but it does not have the grunt of a diesel. This is only really noticable when going up grades, though. I get about 9.5 mph while towing, about 15-16 highway mph otherwise.

ITS51RX7
09-22-2007, 07:20 AM
FWIW I've personally towed 7500lbs with the Tundra 5.7 and it was excellent. I'd have no problem pulling that load across the country. Furthermore, it easily out accelerated any of the Diesel HD's with that same load in tow. Our crew cab model had a 10,200lb towing capacity.

Not to mention it costs much less than the HDs, brakes much better, and gets far better fuel economy of even the Diesels.

Jake
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Must be a Toyota salesman

Rabbit07
09-23-2007, 08:54 PM
I picked up the Truck Saturday. First tank of fuel with combo driving I got 12.7 MPG. I couldn't help myself but to hook up the old trailer and tow up and down a few miles of I-75. The 6.0 has plent-o-pull for a gas engine. Actually I thought it towed as well as the V10 Fords that I have used. The brakes were great for a trailer that is over 9000 lbs. Now to see what the MPG will be towing. So far I am a satisfied customer.

7racing
09-24-2007, 12:11 PM
I have an '04 Chevy 2500 HD crew cab 8' bed. The truck tows my 26' enclosed like a dream. Very little sway, good power, decent ride over backroads and highways. I am very satisfied with the truck for towing.

jlucas
09-25-2007, 06:53 AM
Got an 04 2500HD (ext cab, 2wd, w/t) on it's way to me, should be here in a week. :happy204:

JLawton
09-27-2007, 12:46 PM
What exactely is the difference between a 2500 and a 3500, or a 250 and a 350. Bigger brakes?? Different suspension?? Heavier frame?

Rabbit07
09-27-2007, 12:47 PM
What exactely is the difference between a 2500 and a 3500, or a 250 and a 350. Bigger brakes?? Different suspension?? Heavier frame?
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Usually a combination of the above.

jlucas
10-06-2007, 09:05 PM
Towing Goodness :)
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/5207/truckrhsgr3.jpg

mattbatson
10-07-2007, 01:45 PM
I can second the Toyota...
If you want the best quality and value for your hard earned buck, cant beat 'em

I've owned both american and japanese, and do not see myself buying american again anytime soon.

A Tundra will also hold it's value much better. You will own it for 10 years, then look under the hood or undercarriage and it will not be leaking oil from every orifice. Everything is better.

And that toyota V-8 is silky, silky smooth.

If your towing light enough, an older tundra will work. You can get these for around 20 I think. Will last you forever.

JeffYoung
10-08-2007, 10:18 AM
A couple of thoughts here:

1. I went from 99 2500 Suburban with gas 454 to 07 5.9 Cummins Dodge 2500 Ram. Gas mileage with Burb: 9 mpg. With Dodge: 12 towing, 18 no tow.

2. Burb was a piece of crap. Never buy a Chevy again. Have heard the newer ones are better but GM lost me as a customer. By 150k I'd spent probably $6-8k replacing stuff that should not have failed, or failed that often (intake manifold, water pump, radiator, rear a/c, dash lights, brakes EVERY 15k, etc.).

3. Burb towed fine, not as good as the Dodge, but close.

4. Difference between a 2500 and 3500 Dodge is ONLY additional leaf springs and carrying capacity. Chevy's may be different.

Your mileage may vary.

Tigaman
10-09-2007, 07:59 AM
Jeff, sorry to hear of your difficulties! :unsure:

I used (and have for sale, check the classifieds) a 1992 K2500 Suburban (454, 4WD) for the last ten years with great results, so much so that I bought a '07 2500 6.0 Suburban (LT3, 4WD) three weeks ago to "upgrade."

Gas mileage was never a winner, but it still had the TH400, so I have driven it for 87K miles with NO problems.

New Burb is AWESOME! Sweet inside and out. 17.5-18 mpg @ 70 mph by itself going to the Speedway Club in Charlotte and back, no sweat. Towing? Well, that's another matter, more like 8-9 mpg. NO problems in the first 2200 miles. Tows great. LOVE the "Tow Mode."

BIG difference between the 1500 and 2500 "new" generation Burbs. Leaf spring and torsion bars instead of springs and ULA. Mine rides firm, but not jarring. Wish I could pimp it out with 20" wheels like on the 1500, but that's ok, rather spend the money on the race car.

As an aside, I know a few folks that have had bad experiences towing 24' and 26' boxes with the Tundra. Like up on a guardrail on the mountain and in the median. Everyone needs more tow vehicle than they think...

Rabbit07
10-09-2007, 08:07 AM
Everyone needs more tow vehicle than they think...
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AMEN!

jlucas
11-21-2007, 07:36 PM
Towing Goodness :)
[/b]
Fuel economy report: 04 2500HD 2WD 4.10 automatic, all stock - snug top shell
Columbus to Effingham (340miles) - empty, cruise set at 70mph - 15.8mpg
Effingham to Columbus - 20ft enclosed trailer (8.5 ft wide) 6000lbs, cruise at 70mph - 9.8 and 9.6mpg

reddog_es22
11-25-2007, 12:19 PM
A couple of thoughts here:

1. I went from 99 2500 Suburban with gas 454 to 07 5.9 Cummins Dodge 2500 Ram. Gas mileage with Burb: 9 mpg. With Dodge: 12 towing, 18 no tow.

2. Burb was a piece of crap. Never buy a Chevy again. Have heard the newer ones are better but GM lost me as a customer. By 150k I'd spent probably $6-8k replacing stuff that should not have failed, or failed that often (intake manifold, water pump, radiator, rear a/c, dash lights, brakes EVERY 15k, etc.).

3. Burb towed fine, not as good as the Dodge, but close.

Your mileage may vary.
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I think the new body style Suburban/ Yukon XL's have a much better build quality vs. the old ones. Also, the new brakes are truly impressive. I've got 81,000 miles on my 2000 Silverado 2500 6.0L and I've still got the original front pads. I had to replace the rears due to corrosion on the rear rotors that I didn't catch soon enough that chewed up the pads, but generally the factory pads last FOREVER. The only odd thing I've noticed is that when they get hot the pad material tends to deposit unevenly, which can lead to a braking vibration. I've only had it happen a few times and I tow a fair amount, just something to be aware of.

Someone earlier mentioned the K&N improving fuel mileage, I can can back up that statement. I was skeptical but when I got a FIPK for free I figured I'd give it a try. I normally get 11.5-12.5 mpg towing a heavy open trailer and with the bed loaded down, and I tend to run in the 75-80 mph range. Towed to KS in September and got 13.5 mpg for the first time ever, and I definitely wasn't driving any slower than normal.