Nascar Bar

[StangIT]

Can the Nascar bar protrude into the door inner skin? I have been reading some of the topics and I was just wondering if the bar or bars can go into the inner door skin?

[lateapex911]

You'll need to read the GCR closely on this, and it's in the midst of a wording change, so it might be cloudy. My info, after talking with members of the CRB, is that their intent with the rule, is to allow IT cars the ability to gut the driver and the pass door IF "NASCAR" bars are installed.

Now, SCCAs definition of a NASCAR door bar setup is not what many people picture. It merely means that the door bar setup must intrude into the door cavity. In other words, your door bars must requre your door to be cut if it is to shut. Now, the rule doesn't say how MUCH the intrustion must be, nor the number of bars, if any, required over the minimum. So, in my case, I decided it made sense to gut my passenger door, and to install the NASCAR setup. But the definition is minimal, so it's legal, in my opinion, to configure an X bar setup that intrudes into the door cavity. My feeling was that, for the right side of the car, that was smarter, and safer.

YMMV.

[chuck baader]

For maximum rigidity, use both. Since any number of bars can be used between mounting points, build the normal "X" bar and add NASCAR bars intruding into the door. That is the way my car is done. Chuck

[lateapex911]

On the passenger side though Chuck, it could be argued that having LESS structure, and having it in from the door, (yest still in the door cavity) would result in lower g loadings in the event of a hit, such as that suffered by the RX-7 driver at Atlanta a year or so ago. Allowing clearance between the doors stock intrusion beam, and the cage structure gives useful crush space, and offers energy asorbtion over time, both advantages, I would think.

[ddewhurst]

***Can the Nascar bar protrude into the door inner skin? I have been reading some of the topics and I was just wondering if the bar or bars can go into the inner door skin?***

Kevin, I have been staying clear of the two topics you have started for good reason. I will surmise that your fairly new to SCCA IT racing/fabing a car. Nothing negative in my two ^ statements. :D

First a NASCAR tube/bar/setup is NOT what the normal person who thinks they understand may think a NASCAR tube/bar/setup is. Look up the definition of a NASCAR-Style Door Bar in the GCR glossary. If installed, it SHALL consist of ONE or MORE sidebars that intrude into the door cavity (through the inner door skin plane) and connect the main hoop to the front hoop. A NASCAR bar per the glossary may be ONE bar at a diagonal/horizontal or any other angle as long as the bar intrudes into the door cavity & connects the main hoop to the front hoop. BUT if I remember correctly through a Fastrack two bars are currently required to connect the main hoop to the front hoop either NASCAR bars or non-NASCAR bars (not intruding into the door cavity or a combination of the two styles (intrude or non-intrude).

[StangIT]

I am new to this thats why I ask so many questions and I do have a copy of the Rules but have you tried to interpret some of that stuff, anyway I ask because I bought a car instead of building one on the advice of some of the Forumer's in here. It was good advice but the problem is that the mustang I bought is a sweet ride but I have clearance issues, I HAVE CLEARANCE ISSUES so by asking questions I can benefit from some other peoples experience. My car was bought Race ready, but not this Driver ready, I need to extend to get as much room inside the car and BE SAFE without having to gutt the cage and start over. I have built race cars before but I always left the cage to the expert and in the world I am from Nascar Bars are three bars running parallel to the door connecting the front and back hoop interconnected with Plating on the skin side. So I was just looking for some clarification that I couldn't find. I also was looking at what would give me the most room and Nascar Bars are looking like the trick.

[ddewhurst]

Kevin, ask away with ANY & ALL questions you have. If you provide more detail of where/why you need more room people from the forum may come with some options. If you posted a picture or two everyone could view better what your issues are & what may be implemented or at least present different ideas within the rules as WE know the rules.

The reason for my first post was that NASCAR bars mean different things to different people & the SCCA glossary definition is clearly different than what many people consider NASCAR bars. :D

Most of all Have Fun ;)

[StangIT]

Sorry It's just that something this Fun can be so Frustrating sometimes, I learned along time ago that you listen more than you talk and you learn alot more. I would send pics but I cut the bars out already, anyway the bars in the door before I started to modify em ran along the inside of the door skin as a matter of fact i really think you could have put the door cover back on and I use an 18 inch Kirkey well I don't even think I can snap the cover but if i can take the bars in the door skin I could pick up and easy 4 inches and now we are getting somewhere the Car had a bar running along the top of the door where the window come up at and a diagonal running from it down to the front hoop. So it was a straight shot from the rear pillar to the dash

[dickita15]

Kevin this is what i did

[StangIT]

Thats kind of what i have in mind only bringing straight out from the back hoop more then angling it in

[dickita15]

that's fine, just remember they have to pierce the plane of the door panel in order to be able to gut the door. on my Rx that was worth 18 pounds per door.

[ddewhurst]

Kevin, I like what Dick did with your inclusion of bringing the bar out from the main hoop straighter. That with the driver is sitting back farther provides a lot more elbow room. Cut out the inner panel so that you cut/weld once & have the maximum room & crush distance.

I rented a Spec Miata & at 6' x 220# sitting way back, the car had almost straight side bars & there was NO elbow room. Of course it a guy don't get the car out of control a guy don't need to be needing all the elbow room. ;)

[mbuskuhl]

Mine looks similar to what dickita15 posted, however there are 3 vertical supports rather than two and that top bar connecting the hoops runs at an angle downwards from rear to front. This will allow more room to get your legs in the car. This is a really old picture, the cage had just been finished in time to get the car and I through school.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4594/abcpict0050rb1.jpg

[ddewhurst]

Mark, the devil makes me do things like this. Is that chain that looks like it attaches the window net left side ballast ? :rolleyes: ;) :D

[mbuskuhl]

Mark, the devil makes me do things like this. Is that chain that looks like it attaches the window net left side ballast ? :rolleyes: ;) :D
[/b]

You see correctly David. That chain was installed to a bottom steel rod. Head of tech installed it, he also oversaw the cage build as he's shop foreman where it was done.

My setup is different now, the lower steel rod is attached to the bar with a thick cable instead. Do you see an issue with this? Maybe I'm missing something. This same picture now and you might not think it was the same car. I'd take a new pic but the car is on the trailer and not starting until the ECU returns from a trip to magic land.

[ddewhurst]

Marc, as I said inthe other post "Mark, the devil makes me do things like this." No issue except normally we are ALL trying to get rid of weight from the left front. I like the light weight (strong) cable :023: or any other light metal. :D

[spawpoet]

Just for clarification am I interpreting the rule correctly in that only one of the horizontal bars needs to intrude past the door surface to gut the door?

[dickita15]

Just for clarification am I interpreting the rule correctly in that only one of the horizontal bars needs to intrude past the door surface to gut the door?
[/b]
IMHO yes