A Serious Conflict of Interest in SCCA

[tnord]

my letter to Heartland Park, the CRB, BOD, Jim Julow, and many others.

if you feel the same, please share with your RE, BOD rep, or whomever will listen.


Heartland Park Staff -

Please forward this message along to Ray Irwin and Ed Ozment, as I could not find their email addresses on the website. Although I'm sure Terry will share this with her husband.


All -

Even though we are a not for profit organization run mainly by volunteers, I personally expect the club to be run to a certain standard. Over the past couple of years, there has been a serious problem developing. It comes as no surprise to anyone receiving this message that the move to Heartland Park for the Runoffs was a controversial one from the beginning. In my view, we have only made a bad situation worse.

I don't remember exactly the timing of events, but I believe somewhere after the announcement was made, and the start of the 2006 season was when Chris Bovis left Heartland Park as Track Manager, and Ed Ozment stepped in. There are probably very few people that are aware the track manager of Heartland Park is married to the current VP of Club Racing, Terry Ozment (who was Director of Club Racing at the time Ed took the job).

When I first saw pictures of the changes to T1/2, and T8/9, my initial reaction was they made changes to the wrong section of the track, and the design looked like it was drawn up by someone who has never driven a race car. While attending the last national race at Heartland Park, I walked the new sections of track on Friday and was terribly disappointed in the way the changes were executed. Such obvious oversights of serious safety hazards (a light pole at T2) cemented my belief that someone with neither racing or course design experience was involved. Much in the way the initial 'Alpha' design seemed it was just thrown together (as evidenced by the 15ft of extra pavement, curbing, and grading that took place later, and yes I was there and drove it the first weekend), T1/2 and T8/9 create a feeling of deja-vu. No curbing in place, seriously bumpy pavement (especially considering it's brand new), light poles, no sand or gravel traps, and other than a waist-high concrete wall spectators stand unprotected less than 20ft from cars traveling 100+mph. I can't see how a reasonable person would find this acceptable for any track, much less a "Runoffs caliber course."

Later that weekend I learned that Ed Ozment was actually the one who layed out the new course. I can't say for 100% certain, but I don't believe Ed has any actual race driving experience. All those I talked with that weekend including people who have been in the club and local to the area for 25+ years couldn't ever remember him racing either. I'm sure there are designers out there that haven't ever driven a race car, but given the situation, this doesn't sit well with me.

Whether you are aware of it or not, there is significant amounts of dissent forming towards the SCCA; much of which revolves around holding the Runoffs at Heartland Park. I realize there is nothing we can do for the 07 or 08 Runoffs, but I fear the major conflict of interest created by having Terry Ozment as VP of Club Racing, and Ed Ozment as Track Manager for Heartland Park may influence the decision. This is one of the many reasons I feel it necessary for SCCA to remove Terry Ozment from her involvement with SCCA, and/or Ed Ozment be removed as Track Manager at Heartland Park.

As a resident of Kansas City, I am largely benefited by having SCCA's biggest event so close to home. However, I feel that it is creating much dissatisfaction amongst our National Drivers, thus sending many to NASA and their National Championship. We are already struggling with losing members to this competing organization, and I believe this trend will continue if the venue does not change for 2009.

The VERY least we need to do as a club and track owners/managers, is ensure a safe environment for our competitors, spectators, and workers at the 2007 Runoffs. The current design of Heartland Park is a long way off, and I beg you, for the good of the SCCA and Heartland Park, to remedy this situation.

If any of my understandings of the timeline of events, people, places, or positions involved are erroneous, I sincerely apologize. Please understand I only write this in hope of keeping SCCA as the best motorsports sanctioning body in the United States.

Thank you,

Travis Nordwald
Kansas City Region
Member #338522

[RSTPerformance]

While the Terry/Ed conflict comes as suprise to me, I am not going to get into this one to deep...

I do however need to give some support to Terry Ozment as she has been wonderfull to me when dealing with SCCA questions/stuff. She is certainly an asset to all of us in my opinion.

Raymond "Thanks for the info" Blethen

[seckerich]

It is no surprise that many classes are talking about "alternate" races in place of the runoffs. We will see a consistent decline in participation if the club does not make some major changes.

[wbp]

Wouldn't this topic feel more at home over on the Prodcar forum?

[planet6racing]

Wouldn't this topic feel more at home over on the Prodcar forum?
[/b]

And started by the real conspiracy theorist here? (You know who I am talking about. Rhymes with Pittsburgh...)

[spnkzss]

Wouldn't this topic feel more at home over on the Prodcar forum?
[/b]

Most of this is SCCA related, not Prod car related.

[tnord]

just because IT cars are not allowed at the runoffs does not mean this doesn't affect IT drivers.

[cmaclean]

I personally vote with my feet. I have absolutely zero interest in running a National class which is one of the main reasons I moved from SM to ITA. Making the class national changes everything. So if the SCCA want to give the national guys and absolutely crap place to race, go right ahead. National Racing = Politics. It'll just mean more folks stick with regionals or go Pro Racing. I really couldn't care less. We all make the decision whether to try for the Runoffs or not, the SCCA is not forcing that on us. If the track sucks, do the ARRC instead! It's where the real fun's at anyway :)

Moving the track to Heartland Park already severely dented the prestige of the Runoffs, making the track different isn't going to change anything. The only way to change things is to hurt the bottom line which means quit going :)

[tnord]

I personally vote with my feet. I have absolutely zero interest in running a National class which is one of the main reasons I moved from SM to ITA. Making the class national changes everything. So if the SCCA want to give the national guys and absolutely crap place to race, go right ahead. National Racing = Politics. It'll just mean more folks stick with regionals or go Pro Racing. I really couldn't care less. We all make the decision whether to try for the Runoffs or not, the SCCA is not forcing that on us.
[/b]

true, but here's the problem. National racing is our advertisement to the world being on TV and all. If we can't host a successful and legitimate national championship, it won't be long until everyone moves to NASA instead.

trust me, the Runoffs and national racing do affect regional guys.

edited because i was wrong

[JohnRW]

National racing is undoubtedly where the money is made. [/b]


???

You need to explain that statement.

[tnord]

count the number of annual National entries compared to annual Regional entries.

[JeffYoung]

Travis, I may be wrong, but I think it is the other way around. I think Regional entries exceed National entries by a wide margin.

Anyone have actual numbers?

[Greg Amy]

Travis, have you actually attended a National lately? Working Tech at a National is about as boring as watching an autocross...

Which is exactly why I continue to be baffled that sponsors who market to racers (e.g., safety equipment, racing tires) ignore Regional racing. If it weren't for the Runoffs TV package, no one would pay attention to National racing at all...

[tnord]

yes. i've been to about a half dozen this year, probably 10 last year. how many have you been to greg?

focus people, don't get all up tight and feel slighted.

if either national or regional club racing is hurt, it affects the other as well.

edited for accuracy

[JohnRW]

yes. i've been to about a half dozen this year, probably 10 last year. how many have you been to greg?[/b]

I'll sit here amused, waiting for a response. Will it be diplomatic, or will it be appropriate ?




all i'm saying is that the total number of entries across the country for nationals surpass the total number of entries across the country for regionals over the course of the season.[/b]

Absolutely 100% irreconcilably wrong. Not even close.


even if this statement isn't true, it doesn't matter. focus people, don't get all up tight and feel slighted.[/b]

Not a real good way to make a point - "craft a statement that is critical to your position, have it challenged, dismiss original statement as irrelevant". Wow.



if either national or regional club racing is hurt, it affects the other as well.[/b]

In what way ? Enlighten us.

[tnord]

good lord john. you couldn't be any farther from the original point of this thread. :rolleyes:

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/2007...for_website.pdf (http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/2007_National_Class_Participation_MASTER_for_websi te.pdf)

[lateapex911]

Another interesting conflict of interest is the "Safety Commitee"...

Which was, last I checked, made up of:

Ed Ozmet (see above)
Joe Marko (HMS Motorsports owner, HMS is a dealer of many safety products, including the HANS)
and
Arnie Kuhns. (President of SFI, the foundation that writes safety standards, including the Head and neck restraint standard, )

Thankfully, the Head and Neck Restraint issue that came before the BoD last summer has been dropped, because with a Commitee so clearly HANS biased, it would have been ugly to mandate the HANS.....

Regarding the track/staff connections, it is unfortunate. But I'd be interested in reading the discloures of the dealings before I'd throw anyone under the bus. The whole Hearland Park thing is very unfortunate...all reports are that the track sucks, but the facility is nice.

And thats too bad, because SCCA's main marketing chance is the TV coverage of the Runoffs, and crappy tracks and crappy racing are doing us no favors in that department...

[JoshS]

The turnout for national races is posted online:
http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/2007...for_website.pdf (http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/2007_National_Class_Participation_MASTER_for_websi te.pdf)

The 2007 National season is now over, so these are the final numbers.

Total entries: 10,010
Average turnout: 142
Division with largest average turnout: CenDiv (216)
Division with smallest average turnout: RMDiv (101)

Meanwhile, San Francisco Region is hosting a double regional this weekend at Infineon, with an entry list showing 397 (!) entries.
http://www.sfrscca.org/images/2007/Calendar/07sep1entry.pdf

Now, I know that's big, but it would not surprise me at all to hear that regional entries generally surpass national entries. It's a big commitment to run a national schedule, due to all of the travel.

BTW: only 2 classes had what I would consider "full fields" with an average turnout of 10+. Only 7 classes had an average turnout of 5+. Of those 7 classes, only 2 are based on street cars (SM and EP).

In my opinion, that's a CLEAR indication that we have the wrong classes.

[tnord]

i'd agree jake. that is another significant problem. One guy designs the track, approves it, and his wife influences the decision to hold SCCA's biggest event at his track. nope, there's no problem with that at all.

PS - national racing season isn't over. add another 600 or so for the runoffs.

[x-ring]

>Meanwhile, San Francisco Region is hosting a double regional this weekend at Infineon, with an entry list showing 397 (!) entries.

OK, but that's division specific. Some divisions have big national turnouts, some have big regional turnouts.

By the numbers you quote, average turnout at a RMDiv national is 101. We have a regional scheduled this weekend too -- 41 cars entered. :(

[JohnRW]

i'd agree jake. that is another significant problem. One guy designs the track, approves it, and his wife decides to hold SCCA's biggest event at his track. nope, there's no problem with that at all.[/b]

Travis - once again, your grasp of the facts is non-existant. I suggest that you fully educate yourself as to the facts, timeline and SCCA history before you begin your crusade. Statements like the one above will simply relegate you to the "screwball" bin.

[ddewhurst]

Travis IIRC (I attempted a search without success) 70% of the total number of SCCA road racing entries come from Regional road racing per a reliable source on the Production site a couple months ago. It did open some eyes :blink: on that site.

[Butch Kummer]

i'd agree jake. that is another significant problem. One guy designs the track, approves it, and his wife decides to hold SCCA's biggest event at his track. nope, there's no problem with that at all.
[/b]

Terry Ozment had little or nothing to do with the selection of HPT as the site for the 2006-2008 Runoffs. Tracks submit bids, the BOD (of which Terry is not a member) evaluates the bids and votes. Mid-Ohio and HPT were the only two tracks to submit bids in the last go-round, and HPT won the bid by (IIRC) an 8-5 vote. I was not involved in any of the discussions, but I have no problem believing it was an attempt to appease the West Coast regions after 30 years of towing two-thirds of the way across the country to compete at the Runoffs.

SCCA DOES have problems, but this one is not even in the top twenty.

Butch Kummer, Former Candidate for Area 12 Director

[JeffYoung]

Butch, what do you think the chances are of a "rotating" Runoffs venue? It seems to me that moving the runoffs on a yearly basis between say Watkins Glen, VIR, Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca is such a "fair" means of doing this as to be a no brainer. Each region of the country gets to have a "homer" runoffes once every four years, we take the runoffs to high profile tracks around the country instead of Topeka, and we perhaps ultimately make it easier for every national driver to make at least one one runoffs in his/her career.

[tnord]

Travis - once again, your grasp of the facts is non-existant. I suggest that you fully educate yourself as to the facts, timeline and SCCA history before you begin your crusade. Statements like the one above will simply relegate you to the "screwball" bin.
[/b]

Is Terry Ozment VP of Club Racing?
Is Ed Ozment the track manager at Heartland Park?
Was Ed Ozment offered the job after the site move announcement was made?
Was Ed Ozment the one that designed the new course layout?
Is Ed Ozment on the Safety Committee?
Is there a light pole on the inside of T2 apex?
Are there spectators standing ~20ft from cars traveling 100+mph with no catch fence?
Are there a significant number of pissed off people defecting to NASA?
Is the success of regional and national racing at all related?
Should we expect a higher or lower turnout than last year come the 2nd weekend in October?

[gran racing]

This is one of the many reasons I feel it necessary for SCCA to remove Terry Ozment from her involvement with SCCA, and/or Ed Ozment be removed as Track Manager at Heartland Park.[/b]

After reading this, I couldn’t help but think that you better darn know for sure and without a doubt the entire situation and surrounding circumstances before making this statement especially in such public forums. This is some pretty strong stuff.

Should Harland Park been automatically disqualified from being considered as a location for the Runoffs? No. The decision should have included several other key members of the National office to proceed, which it sounds like it did.

Do I think the track is boring to watch racing at even though I’m a huge race fan, member of the SCCA, etcetera? <yawn> You better believe it. Maybe the location of the track should rotate among a few different locations in the central US every few years.

[Chris Wire]

all reports are that the track sucks, but the facility is nice.[/b]

After watching the video of the &#39;improvements&#39; at HPT from their website, I&#39;d have to concur. Although I&#39;ve never raced the track, I&#39;d find it hard to get myself excited to go run that track even for a National Championship. And while Mid-Ohio may be a great driver&#39;s track, I found watching the Runoffs tedious because the only passing zone on the track ended up being the end of the backstraight. Then follow-the-leader around for the rest of the lap until you hit the backstretch again......yawn.


Butch, what do you think the chances are of a "rotating" Runoffs venue? It seems to me that moving the runoffs on a yearly basis between say Watkins Glen, VIR, Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca is such a "fair" means of doing this as to be a no brainer.[/b]

Unless Road Atlanta and Road America are included, the list is second-rate. Those are argueably the two best racing tracks in the country (see M-O comments above). VIR looks awesome as well.

Just my opinion, of course!

[tnord]

After reading this, I couldn’t help but think that you better darn know for sure and without a doubt the entire situation and surrounding circumstances before making this statement especially in such public forums. This is some pretty strong stuff.
[/b]

no, i don&#39;t know with 100% accuracy and certainty the entire situation and circumstances. nobody other than maybe the people in topeka do. I know enough to justify asking questions, and more than has been revealed here.

[planet6racing]

Is it winter already? Funny, I don&#39;t see any snow up here and there are at least 2 more events this year!

But, seriously, does anyone have a good recipe for grilled sea bass? (I&#39;m not being a troll, just really tired of these sorts of things)

[Butch Kummer]

Prior to the fiasco that is the Runoffs at HPT, I would have said the chances of a rotating Runoffs is "zero". If the response on the Runoffs participants&#39; survey doesn&#39;t improve dramatically after the changes for 2007, I would guess the BOD would be MUCH more ameniable to trying something new.

The problem with a rotating Runoffs is there are very few tracks in the country that can handle the number of entrants that traditionally have been attending. It&#39;s also a major undertaking on the part of the track and they want (at least) a three year deal to justify the commitment they need to make.

My first choice would be to have three "Runoffs" each year, two weeks apart and each with eight different classes. If you&#39;re running in SSQ, for instance, this year your championship race is at VIR, next year it&#39;s at Mid-Ohio (or Road America), the third year at Laguna Seca. The GT-7 championships are also rotating, but the SSQ cars and GT-7 cars are never at the same track in any given year. There are a LOT more tracks that can host 300 car events (Road Atlanta being among them), "your" Runoffs would be relatively local every three years, plus with eight classes you could do the whole thing in a three-day weekend!

Since I never have any intention of running for Director again, I doubt such a plan will ever see the light of day. The PTB are too hung up on the "Big Event" (the "Olympics of Racing") and don&#39;t want "their" championship event(s) spread across the country. If the purpose of the Runoffs is to determine the National Champion in each class my plan gains traction, but that&#39;s not the real reason for the Runoffs.

Given the (current) BOD&#39;s penchant/desire for a "Big Event", my second choice would be to convince Tony George to rent us the road course at Indianapolis for two weeks each fall.

This should be a separate thread.

Back to tnord&#39;s misguided rant against the Ozment Conspiracy...

[JohnRW]

"One guy designs the track, approves it, and his wife decides to hold SCCA&#39;s biggest event at his track. nope, there&#39;s no problem with that at all."


Advice: If you don&#39;t know the facts, don&#39;t "just make it up".




Is Terry Ozment VP of Club Racing?

...was not involved in the final decision to move RunOffs to HPT, and I suspect that she wasn&#39;t even VP Club Racing when this decision was made. Unlike you, I won&#39;t make up stuff to justify my argument. I don&#39;t recall the chronology of the whole thing.


Is Ed Ozment the track manager at Heartland Park?

Point ?



Was Ed Ozment offered the job after the site move announcement was made?

Well, if he was, you&#39;ve just contradicted your previous statement re: Ozment being part of the insidious cabal that hoodwinked the club into moving the RunOffs to HPT.


Was Ed Ozment the one that designed the new course layout?

Don&#39;t know, and I certainly wouldn&#39;t rely on information that YOU are providing to determine that.


Is Ed Ozment on the Safety Committee?

Easily researchable fact. Possibly the only thing you&#39;ve gotten right in this whole thread.


Is there a light pole on the inside of T2 apex?

Apparently, you race there all the time...so is there ? If it&#39;s a concern, why do you race there ?


Are there spectators standing ~20ft from cars traveling 100+mph with no catch fence?

I don&#39;t know...are there ? Are they there right now ? You better go warn them.


Are there a significant number of pissed off people defecting to NASA?

Define "significant". Hopefully, this is a list longer than "Travis, and the cranks on the Prod board".


Is the success of regional and national racing at all related?

I&#39;ve challenged you to explain why this is true. You have not even attempted to respond.


Should we expect a higher or lower turnout than last year come the 2nd weekend in October?


It will definitely be lower. So what ? That&#39;s an issue that is unrelated to your post, or any of the fallacious facts you&#39;ve "posted" in this thread.

More advice: Stick to your day job, and give up your hopes of leading a grand revolution, at least until you can master the task of crafting an argument with real facts and then adequately defending that argument. You&#39;re not up to the task now.

[Chris Wire]

Given the (current) BOD&#39;s penchant/desire for a "Big Event", my second choice would be to convince Tony George to rent us the road course at Indianapolis for two weeks each fall.
[/b]

Now this I could get on board with. :023:

Hmmmm....build an SM or run my RX7 in EP? Decisions, decisions....

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[dickita15]

Things I think I know to be true:

Plans to move the runoffs to other tracks would need tracks to bid to have it. I think there were 3 bids last time and one was withdrawn.

Tony George was asked about the runoffs but at the time a fall date was a problem because Bernie had the authority to move dates. (Maybe not a problem now)

This BB has little interest in these types of discussions.

While in one thread I read we are all leaving for NASA in another thread I read where NASA drove away all the Honda challenge people.

Travis is firmly convinced there is a problem and the lack of hard data (admittedly hard to document) would not prevent getting traction on the prod board.

John is mean to demand people have all the facts.

David is right, regional entries are like 75% of racing entries.

Some national classes have an elevated opinion of their importance.

[JohnRW]

John is mean to demand people have all the facts.
[/b]

Actually, I&#39;m just mean to people who invent their own "facts", and I&#39;ve been pretty restrained. Some of the posting on this thread deserve a lot more acidic response that has been delivered so far.

Old quote, disputed attribution (Moynihan ? Some other politico ?): "You can have your own opinions, but you can&#39;t have your own facts."

[Andy Bettencourt]

I am SO glad Patullo is from NER! :birra:

My vote:

Beg TG for a fall date at IRP. Ask him for a Championship level configuration that NOBODY can run for the whole year until the first test day of the Runoffs. Central location, no home field advantage and a world-class facility.

Tony George!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/TonyGeorgeMay2007.jpg/800px-TonyGeorgeMay2007.jpg

[tnord]

1) Terry was Director of Club Racing at the time the announcement was made. Go back and read the email i sent.

2) I&#39;m not concerned about the decisions that were made way back when. I&#39;m concerned about what is happening right now, and what decisions will be made in the future. Today, Terry Ozment is VP of Club Racing, and Ed is track Manager at Heartland Park.

3) you are excellent at telling me i&#39;m wrong, but terrible at proving it.

4) i don&#39;t see how any reasonable person can say the success of both regional and national racing are at least somewhat related to each other. i&#39;m not even going to waste my time on this one.

5) you&#39;ll notice that in the message i did not specify any of the mentioned mistakes as a direct result of the Ozmnt/HPT/SCCA relationship. I never claimed to be privy to any information that would support that. But that doesn&#39;t matter to me. I believe the current situation creates a conflict of interest, which regardless of actual influence, should not be allowed to exist.

6) look, i saw a situation i didn&#39;t like, and i spoke up about it. if you go back and read the last paragraph of the email i make concessions about my potential misunderstanding about what has happened, and the underlying motivation for the message. if you can&#39;t at least respect that, well....

7) I tried to keep the email and thread as polite and professional as possible. congratulations, you ruined it. so i politely say to you "fuck off john. seriously."

[dickita15]

Beg TG for a fall date at IRP. Ask him for a Championship level configuration that NOBODY can run for the whole year until the first test day of the Runoffs. Central location, no home field advantage and a world-class facility.
[/b]
agreed though I hope you mean IMS.
indy is a great convetion town. hotels, resturants, blues clubs

John, I probably owe you a smiley.

Travis Lighten Up. read John&#39;s posts and think about what he is saying and remember this is the IT board and this type of conversation never works well here.

[Andy Bettencourt]

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiJsKNdGuSgAMFOjzbkF/SIG=121g6g1gc/EXP=1188592108/**http://letterman.iscool.com/february/mona.jpgDuh, IMS. :024:

STUPID!

[JohnRW]

1) Terry was Director of Club Racing at the time the announcement was made. Go back and read the email i sent.

2) I&#39;m not concerned about the decisions that were made way back when. I&#39;m concerned about what is happening right now, and what decisions will be made in the future. Today, Terry Ozment is VP of Club Racing, and Ed is track Manager at Heartland Park.

3) you are excellent at telling me i&#39;m wrong, but terrible at proving it.

4) i don&#39;t see how any reasonable person can say the success of both regional and national racing are at least somewhat related to each other. i&#39;m not even going to waste my time on this one.

5) you&#39;ll notice that in the message i did not specify any of the mentioned mistakes as a direct result of the Ozmnt/HPT/SCCA relationship. I never claimed to be privy to any information that would support that. But that doesn&#39;t matter to me. I believe the current situation creates a conflict of interest, which regardless of actual influence, should not be allowed to exist.

6) look, i saw a situation i didn&#39;t like, and i spoke up about it. if you go back and read the last paragraph of the email i make concessions about my potential misunderstanding about what has happened, and the underlying motivation for the message. if you can&#39;t at least respect that, well....

7) I tried to keep the email and thread as polite and professional as possible. congratulations, you ruined it. so i politely say to you "fuck off john. seriously."
[/b]


To address your points:

1. It is common knowledge that the SCCA Board of Directors made the decision to move the RunOffs to HPT. The decision wasn&#39;t up to anyone named Ozment, and I believe that Mr. Ozment didn&#39;t even work at HPT at the time the decision was made. You have repeatedly inferred that there was some Ozment cabal that shanghai&#39;ed the RunOffs to HPT. You are good at tossing shit-bombs until you are challenged, and then you dismiss it as "not important now"

2. See response #1 above, especially the last sentence.

3. You claimed that Nat&#39;l racing provided more entries/income than Reg&#39;l racing. You didn&#39;t provide any substantiation to that claim, which any semi-conscious person knows is wrong. Why do I have to prove that you&#39;re just "making stuff up" ? Why can&#39;t you back up your statements ?

4. "Reasonable people" ? Ha. You can&#39;t explain your claim here, either. Explain me this: What has SM Nat&#39;l racing done to SM Regional fields ? How does a strong Nat&#39;l program affect a Region that only hosts Regional races ?

5. Weasel words, again. You&#39;ve used false facts and innuendo to sling crap, and now you&#39;re trying to deconstruct the tower of cards that you&#39;ve tried to assemble ? You ARE a prize.

6. You&#39;ve done more than speak up about it...you&#39;ve demanded a course of action...that would be the "Terry must go or Ed must go" part of your email. Since Ed doesn&#39;t seem to work for SCCA, one of those choices seems to be a little problematic, and based on my limited knowledge of contract and employment law, if it was attempted, would likely be "actionable" on Ed&#39;s part. Great...everybody gets sued. Other than point out the fact that Terry works for SCCA and Ed works for HPT, what "conflict" have you identified ? None. He doesn&#39;t own HPT...he just works there.

7. I started off by simply asking for an explanation of a factual claim (that would be the $$$ of Nat&#39;l vs. Reg&#39;l thing), which you had ass-backwards. You then implied that there was some sleezy &#39;Ozment plot&#39; to move the RunOffs to HPT, which you could not factually justify. Once we got to that point, you just became &#39;target practice&#39;. BooHoo. Sorry I made you cry. But, IMO, you are a silly ass who will defame people you&#39;ve likely never met with false assertions about their positions, actions and motives. You, sir, are a fool.

Edit: (Dick...I knew there was an implied smiley there...)

[gran racing]

no, i don&#39;t know with 100% accuracy and certainty the entire situation and circumstances. nobody other than maybe the people in topeka do. I know enough to justify asking questions, and more than has been revealed here. [/b]

In light of this you don&#39;t see an issue with asking either the SCCA to fire Terry or the track to fire her husband? I am really surprised with that. In one of the other forums, you posted the response that was sent back to you from an SCCA BOD member. Gee, I wonder why some of the tone was a bit defensive? :rolleyes: You also indicate here how your questions were never answered. If you truly want a change, this was a very poor way of attempting to make it happen and much of what you wanted to accomplish was lost. I am hoping this was just a reaction and simply not thought through.

[tnord]

4. "Reasonable people" ? Ha. You can&#39;t explain your claim here, either. Explain me this: What has SM Nat&#39;l racing done to SM Regional fields ? How does a strong Nat&#39;l program affect a Region that only hosts Regional races ?
[/b]

seriously? you really don&#39;t get this do you? are national classes not eligible to run regional races? has no one ever attended a national race, or watched the runoffs on tv, thought it looked fun, but ended up building an IT car? are there no &#39;national&#39; drivers who enter regionals just for the fun of it? has no IT driver ever wanted to go to the runoffs so he converts/buys a prod car? has SM not fed into ITA? has SM/SRF not brought in loads of new drivers that wouldn&#39;t be racing otherwise? both regional and national guys pay their membership dues right?

there&#39;s no reason to even waste my time with someone that can&#39;t understand this and see the big picture.


Dave -

the only purpose of bringing this up is to make people aware of the situation. i&#39;m not trying to lead a crusade or anything, everyone can make up their own mind.

[dickita15]

Actually on the concept of which brings more revenue (ie more important) to the club, nationals or regionals, the national office gains more revenue from nationals, well the runoffs. National and the regions often have cross purposes. Regions run races and derive revenue from these races every weekend. Topeka collects small sanction fees from these but thier one big cash cow in club racing is the runoffs. This is the only event where national takes in the entry fees and pays the expenses and keeps the profit.
A similar situation has just occurred with the temp membership. Under the old plan they were good for 90 days and the regions could sell them or give them away. National received no money. The regions had an easy way to allow people to participate. Under the new plan they are only good for the weekend and Topeka get the money.
Better for National because less people avoid buying membership. Worse for the regions because it is now harder to recruit works and crew.

[seckerich]

And the best way to have change is to let the market decide what they want. Let HPT crash and burn as a runoffs location and the BOD might just look for some new ideas. If not, it is what members want if it supported. Vote with the moola!!

[JWiley]

Last I heard, the Runoffs races get broadcast on SPEED sometime after Christmas at around 2:00 in the morning,; if this is the best marketing tool SCCA has to present itself to the outside world. there is a serious problem. Have they considered buying space on milk cartons: "Have you seen this racing organization?"

James Wiley
HP Midget #72

[gran racing]

Not to veer too far off topic, but right now I think the Speed World Challenge races has a great opportunity. The problem from my perception is that it is not used as a marketing tool to grow membership within the SCCA. Part of that might be because we are looking for it to survive financially and at the hard dollars of that section of the SCCA.

Btw, I really like the milk carton idea!! Not only is it funny, it is something that might grap people&#39;s attention. Now we just need to figure out how to get that on a beer bottle vs. a milk carton. LOL

[planet6racing]

IIRC, weren&#39;t the Ozments still living and working in the Chicago area (and Chicago Region) when the HPT announcement came out? When they moved, I&#39;m sure Ed had to find a new job. Plus, if there was some conspiracy at the time, why wouldn&#39;t they have moved it to Road America? If I believe what I&#39;ve been told (and I do), Chicago region would have a big interest in that...

Could someone answer the following question? Why do I keep reading this? :026: :bash_1_: :eclipsee_steering:

[lateapex911]

Yeah, good points on the TV stuff. The Runoffs doesn&#39;t exactly pull in the ratings on Speed. I haven&#39;t seen recent numbers, but I talked with Roger W about it back when he was there, (ex big man at the network) and he said they did it as part of the Speed World Challenge package....it became a "gift" of sorts That was then, in the networks infancy, and now...sheesh...I have to think that the negotiations to get the Runoffs aired is a lot harder for Mike Dickerson of the SCCA, or whoever has to do it. Broadcasting races is really expensive, especially races that last a week!

If Speed doesn&#39;t like the World Challenge ratings numbers, and can&#39;t sell ad space, we&#39;ll end up footing the whole bill to get anything on the air. If I were Pro, I&#39;d be considering format changes to make the races as interesting and exciting as possible. There have been some great ones, but some dogs as well.

The World Challenge broadcasts are pretty well done, and while I know a lot of people have less than kind words for Greg Creamer, I like how he slips in pro SCCA commentary whenever he can. And flaggers and other workers have to love his on air praise as well. I do think it would be great to have background sidebars on some of the drivers and their beginings,( like Curran, etc), but again, air time is $$, as is outside production.

[tnord]

IIRC, weren&#39;t the Ozments still living and working in the Chicago area (and Chicago Region) when the HPT announcement came out? When they moved, I&#39;m sure Ed had to find a new job. Plus, if there was some conspiracy at the time, why wouldn&#39;t they have moved it to Road America? If I believe what I&#39;ve been told (and I do), Chicago region would have a big interest in that...

Could someone answer the following question? Why do I keep reading this? :026: :bash_1_: :eclipsee_steering:
[/b]

as i&#39;ve said countless number of times. i make no accusations or assumptions on the circumstances or decision making process that got the runoffs to topeka. i just want to ensure that the right decision is made for 2009.

imagine if they kept the RO at HPT for 09, then how bad would this arrangement look?

whatever. read the letter, not the BS that follows, and decide for yourself. that&#39;s all.

[AntonioGG]

A similar situation has just occurred with the temp membership. Under the old plan they were good for 90 days and the regions could sell them or give them away. National received no money. The regions had an easy way to allow people to participate. Under the new plan they are only good for the weekend and Topeka get the money.
[/b]

I have to correct you on this. The old temp memberships were bought by the region from national and used as needed...the region could sell or give them away. Then national stuck us (regions) with the memberships we had purchased (sizable number) when they went to the free 90 day temp membership plan. Some of the craftier region(s) sent those old temp memberships in as payment when money was owed to national :happy204: Now we&#39;re back to non-free temp memberships.

[mustanghammer]

as i&#39;ve said countless number of times. i make no accusations or assumptions on the circumstances or decision making process that got the runoffs to topeka. i just want to ensure that the right decision is made for 2009.

imagine if they kept the RO at HPT for 09, then how bad would this arrangement look?

whatever. read the letter, not the BS that follows, and decide for yourself. that&#39;s all.
[/b]

The real "conspiracy" that should concern all of us is NOT how the Run Offs got to Topeka. That deal involved Steve Johnson, Ray Irwin, The City of Topeka and the State of KS. The BOD approved the bid and the deal was done - like it or not.

The real concern that many of us in this area have is that Big Ed is both an employee of HPT and is contracted to the SCCA (where his wife works) for race track safety inspections. That is the conflict of interest that should make all of us take notice.

What happens if a serious accident or death occurs as a result of an Ed Ozment desinged and approved track modification? Does this sound like a 60 Minutes feature story or what?

I haven&#39;t driven the new T1/T2 complex but I have seen the in car footage and talked to several drivers I respect that have driven it. I believe it is dangerous and someone will hit it. The fact that the track was allowed to be configured in this way only throws fuel on the conspiracy fire.

I have seen allot of changes to HPT over the years and have driven all of them with the exception of the latest ones. Each time a change was made track management made safety "improvements" only as a reaction to problems that occured not before they occured. The worst example was the first race weekend held at HPT after the first iteration of Turn Alpha was put in place. We had a fatality. Was it caused by the new turn? Well all I can say is that the wall that the driver hit was removed by the next time we raced there. You make the call......

[tdw6974]

[quote]
agreed though I hope you mean IMS.
indy is a great convetion town. hotels, resturants, blues clubs

Remember don&#39;t let the Hotels know the dates then won&#39;t have to pay $300 per nite for a 49.95 room. Ooops Off thread :bash_1_:

[dickita15]

I have to correct you on this. The old temp memberships were bought by the region from national and used as needed...the region could sell or give them away. Then national stuck us (regions) with the memberships we had purchased (sizable number) when they went to the free 90 day temp membership plan. Some of the craftier region(s) sent those old temp memberships in as payment when money was owed to national :happy204: Now we&#39;re back to non-free temp memberships.
[/b]
Actually Antonio you describe three temp programs. I was describing the change from V2 to V3 which is the current change

Tom not saying it won’t happen but I remember showing up in Indy on Pole Day without a reservation and getting a cheap room just out of town on the beltway.

[JWiley]

Since this has become something of a catch-all bashing of SCCA management, I wonder how many others of you could care less about Speed World Challenge, Trans Am, Pro Racing, or any of the other concoctions our "club" has come up with to "market" the SCCA. If it doesn&#39;t directly affect my participation in, and my enjoyment of, a typical club race weekend, Regional or National, then I fail to see why any money or effort shoud be expended in these areas. If there is a quantifiable measure of how these extraneous activities do anything other than create or justify jobs at the National office, I would like to see it. I realize that there are a very few racers who see the SCCA as a stepping stone to bigger things, but the vast majority of us are in it for fun at a local level. Someone please enlighten me if I am just a rube in the big city on this one...

James Wiley
#72 HP Midget
Atlanta Region

[Chris Wire]

I absolutely LOVE World Challenge! The rest of the Pro Racing/Enterprises menu I could care less about. Enterprises is an entity that seems useless to me. Although I see some merit in SRF since the numbers actually give it a chance to operate in the black, I don&#39;t believe that the club should be in the manufacturing business at all. Formula SCCA and the cousin Sports Racer seem ill advised and self serving to say the least.

I&#39;ll draw the parallel with the current woes in the mortgage industry. Those speculators and lenders that got in over their heads are going to have to take it on the chin. Just as I feel that the gov&#39;t shouldn&#39;t be using taxpayer dollars (is there any other kind of gov&#39;t money?) to bail out failing private enterprises, I don&#39;t believe that the National office should be using club monies to subsidize failing pro racing ventures.

That said, I think I remember WC restructuring their fees to the racers so as to create enough revenue, when coupled with advertising fees and marketing partnerships, that the WC portion of Pro could support itself. I think SRF operates in the black as well. Kudos to both groups for that, but the rest of the Pro side seems useless and unnecessary to me.

[Stan]

Travis, I may be wrong, but I think it is the other way around. I think Regional entries exceed National entries by a wide margin. Anyone have actual numbers?[/b]
Jeff, last year there were about 10,700 National entries and about 29,400 Regional entries. Stan

[lateapex911]

Since this has become something of a catch-all bashing of SCCA management, I wonder how many others of you could care less about Speed World Challenge, Trans Am, Pro Racing, or any of the other concoctions our "club" has come up with to "market" the SCCA. If it doesn&#39;t directly affect my enjoyment of, a typical club race weekend, Regional or National, then I fail to see why any money or effort shoud be expended in these areas.

James Wiley
#72 HP Midget
Atlanta Region [/b]

Well, that&#39;s rather ...ummm..."centered", LOL.

[gran racing]

If there is a quantifiable measure of how these extraneous activities do anything[/b]

That&#39;s the tough thing about marketing is often times you simply can not put a hard dollar to various promotional activities. I can tell you that WC is what made me aware of the SCCA.

[Cobrar05]

First let me post that Butch has the clearest handle on things that I&#39;ve read here. The split runoffs would nail down track dates in three time zones to allow for rotation. That would be sweet.

Next Butch brings up TG and IMS. That road course is not exactly VIR, Road Atlanta or Laguna Seca, but it is at the Mecca of Motorsports. It is also fair. There would be no regional or national or NASA races there to get some laps and there would be no home track advantage there.

With the USGP done for the foreseeable future, maybe its doable.

Til then I have the SIC and the ARRC to keep me busy.

[Mattberg]

This conflict of interest has been around since before we even started running HPT. I think you could end the argument quickly with looking at some simple basic stuff.

First is, why we have a guy, who until his wife was hired, was running "Big Ed&#39;s Handymand Service", in charge or at leasst a significant player in track safety. Fix my broken gutter or or fix my vacuum cleaner, but lay out my race track or make decisions involving my safety on same?... I don&#39;t think so. :rolleyes: That&#39;s simply forgetting the possible conflict of interest and common sense to me. But then there&#39;s that...

There were always signs of trouble in this hiring in both questionable events before and after Terry&#39;s hiring. The first sign of the problem was almost day one of Ms. Ozments tenure. IIRC, one of the RMDIV tracks got shut down for safety reasons by the SCCA safety staff and as i remember it... an inspection by... yes, Ed Ozment. Well it turns out this wasn&#39;t the first time such had happened and and in another previous instance much like it, the resulting actions were a BIG problem. It turns out that the track in this case and at least reported in one other case was offered an exclusive solution to fix the problems to be implemented by... uh... Ed Ozment, who was all of the sudden in the track construction and safety business as an independent contractor.

Forget about the award of the Runoffs to HPT. I doubt Terry had anything to do with it and she lacks the intellectual agility or business acumen to do "deals" anyway. That deal was one stumbled through by an almost as inept group of folks we refer to as the BoD. She&#39;s only a paper pusher with a big title who really doesn&#39;t do much of anything other than administration much like her previous job, which IIRC, was a low end supervisor at the phone company.

The bottom line is that there really is too much tied together here anyway you look at it and hashing out issues over what&#39;s already been done will be fruitless. Looking ahead and to avoid even the perception of conflict, Mr. Ozment really should not be involved in working, bidding, planning or being involved in any other way with SCCA business operation as long as Terry is in her position. The relationship is too slippery a slope to walk. Why do it? Hate to break up the SCCA family tradition but Ed needs to find work outside of projects involving the SCCA and/or Terry needs to remove herself as a decision maker in situations where Ed has anything to do with it. The latter I feel is impossible so Ed, go back to fixing pool filters, broken sinks and patio furniture and leave race track design to a professional who is not married to the VP of Club Racing.

[Drew Aldred]

She&#39;s only a paper pusher with a big title who really doesn&#39;t do much of anything other than administration much like her previous job, which IIRC, was a low end supervisor at the phone company.
[/b]

Now to be fair, she was there for 18 years Matt !!! Plus what other job could you get that pays you to take 2 weeks vacation to sunny FL in the winter to attend National races as part of your job ?? Oh and this year&#39;s June Sprints too. I&#39;m sure none of these events could run without her guiding hand........... :wacko:

[ddewhurst]

Matt, nice job of presenting in a civil manner. :023: A couple ruff edges BUT we can work with that. ;)

[tom_sprecher]

Since this has become something of a catch-all bashing of SCCA management, I wonder how many others of you could care less about Speed World Challenge, Trans Am, Pro Racing, or any of the other concoctions our "club" has come up with to "market" the SCCA. If it doesn&#39;t directly affect my participation in, and my enjoyment of, a typical club race weekend, Regional or National, then I fail to see why any money or effort shoud be expended in these areas. If there is a quantifiable measure of how these extraneous activities do anything other than create or justify jobs at the National office, I would like to see it. I realize that there are a very few racers who see the SCCA as a stepping stone to bigger things, but the vast majority of us are in it for fun at a local level. Someone please enlighten me if I am just a rube in the big city on this one...
[/b]


James, I like the way you think. We need to get together for a beer or two at the ARRC.




I absolutely LOVE World Challenge! The rest of the Pro Racing/Enterprises menu I could care less about. Enterprises is an entity that seems useless to me. Although I see some merit in SRF since the numbers actually give it a chance to operate in the black, I don&#39;t believe that the club should be in the manufacturing business at all. Formula SCCA and the cousin Sports Racer seem ill advised and self serving to say the least.

I&#39;ll draw the parallel with the current woes in the mortgage industry. Those speculators and lenders that got in over their heads are going to have to take it on the chin. Just as I feel that the gov&#39;t shouldn&#39;t be using taxpayer dollars (is there any other kind of gov&#39;t money?) to bail out failing private enterprises, I don&#39;t believe that the National office should be using club monies to subsidize failing pro racing ventures.

That said, I think I remember WC restructuring their fees to the racers so as to create enough revenue, when coupled with advertising fees and marketing partnerships, that the WC portion of Pro could support itself. I think SRF operates in the black as well. Kudos to both groups for that, but the rest of the Pro side seems useless and unnecessary to me.
[/b]

Chris, you&#39;re invited too!

[Mattberg]

Matt, nice job of presenting in a civil manner. :023: A couple ruff edges BUT we can work with that. ;)
[/b]

Thanks David. Not sure whether you&#39;re being facetious though... :D

Regardless, IIRC we hashed out this Ozment problem in relation to the RMDIV track some time ago and the conflict was, as I understand, dealt with by Topeka. To hear that Ed is involved again in something is a little shocking. I really don&#39;t think they&#39;re is any intention on the Ozment&#39;s part as I truly doubt they know any better. Conflict of interest to most employees in Topeka is defined as an argument over a remote control for the TV of whether to serve pigs in blankets or shrimp at the convention social. :P

It does however cast a very dim light on both the BoD and Topeka for allowing it to re-occur. If Mr. Julow has any spine at all he will put a quick end to this.

[wbp]

As a long time fan of IT racing and Improvedtouring.com, I have been pleased to see this forum relatively free of the trash we find on Prodcar and other sites. I suppose good things never last forever.

[pgipson]

Fortunately, the helicopter sightings are relatively rare over here.

[ddewhurst]

Matt, not facetious in any manner. Good job. If your at the Runoffs we&#39;ll share my :birra: & your :026: (shrimp)

[mengelke]

Since Ed Ozment became employeed by HPT he can no longer be a track inspector. I do not believe is involved with the RFP as Ray Irwin makes all decisions. Terry may help prepare the RFP but the only people to blame is the BOD. They usually have a 5 person committee to evaluate the RFP and the make a recommendation to the board. The last time the vote was 8-5. Complaining on this site or anyother site will get you knothing as the majority of the board does not waste their time on the internet. Write them an email or letter if you want to be heard. Like it or not.

Now, back to the shrimp boat.

Mike Engelke

[lateapex911]

Mike, come on man, lets not get carried away. I know about internet time wasting, but I also know very well what a powerful tool it can be, and it&#39;s been instrumental in some major changes...changes that have occurred right under your nose. I also know BoD guys who DO "waste their time" on the net.