passenger side NASCAR bars

[chewy8000]

I have a friend who owes me a favor cutting out my X bars on the drivers side of my rabbit GTI and welding in NASCAR bars. Should I have him to the same to the passenger side as well?

[Speed Raycer]

Why are you cutting out the X bars? Poorly installed? Too close to your arm?

If it's to loose weight, just make sure that you're not adding weight overall with the weight of the tubing. NASCAR style bars work well because of the amount of mass, not because of the great design advantage ;)

If you're just in it for the weight, I'd add one NASCAR bar down low (which meets the required tubing size) that enters into the door cavity. Then you'll have the best of both worlds.

Be aware that the cage rules are about to go through a revamp, so be sure of what you're doing as far as tubing size.

[dick elliott]

Explain to me one more time. Thanks from a real old fart.

"Be aware that the cage rules are about to go through a revamp, so be sure of what you're doing as far as tubing size."
[/quote]

[chewy8000]

I'm cutting them out because the Tech Inspector said to before I show up to the Oct. school. I thought that was weird since the GCR says X braced bars are legal? He told me to cut them out and install NASCAR bars on the drivers side. Didn't make sense to me when I looked around and saw atleast 8-10 cars in ITB running X bars? I'm new to this so I'm not sure? Here is what I have now:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/chewy8000/buginLRP034.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/chewy8000/buginLRP035.jpg

[ddewhurst]

***I'm cutting them out because the Tech Inspector said to before I show up to the Oct.***

Chewy, in your BEST David Dewhurst questioning process ask the Tech Inspector to show you exactly which rule specifies that the "X" side protection is not acecptable. ;)

[tom_sprecher]

I went with one NASCAR and one straight bar on the passenger side, gutted the door and the net result was a 16# weight reduction.

The door had a power window so your results may vary.

[Speed Raycer]

I'm cutting them out because the Tech Inspector said to before I show up to the Oct. school. I thought that was weird since the GCR says X braced bars are legal?[/b]

First... from the marginal picture, it looks like your cage is pretty nicely done. I question the bends in the X's but that's neither here nor there.

Do as Dave suggests... but before you get to the track. Find the Cheif of Tech and contact them about this. Sounds to me like the TI you talked to might not have been up on the CURRENT rules or this may have been said before the X bar clarification came down.

Don't ruffel their feathers, but be very insistant because the inspector was wrong If they're bull headed about it, have them show you where it's illegal. Again, do this before you get to the track ;)

[chewy8000]

Thanks guys,

I thought it was pretty obvious as stated:

G. Side Protection:
Two (2) side tubes connecting the front and rear hoops across both door openings are mandatory. Door side tubes may extend into the door. NASCAR-style side protection, or one bar bisecting another to form an “X” is permitted.

I will just be nice about it and ask them to show me where it says I need to change it.

[Greg Amy]

Tristan, as others have noted, your cage as described is legal.

HOWEVER, your goal is to finish your school, and every once in a long while you'll come across a tech inspector that can be a real a**hole and do their best to ruin your day (disclosure: I'm a Divisional Tech Inspector. I know the attitudes because it was due to the pigheaded - and COMPLETELY wrong - attitude of one of them that I volunteered.)

Here's what you want to do: find out who your regional or Divisional Chief of Tech is, and bring your car to them for an annual inspection IN ADVANCE OF THE EVENT. Once you've been issued a logbook and it's been signed off for annual, you will not have to present your car for the event itself.

I CANNOT stress enough that you want to get this taken care of in advance of the event. Theoretically, if you get any grief over the cage you can file a protest against the official(s), and eventually it will be found in your favor. However, you do *not* have the time or motivation to deal with this the day of the event. - GA

[chewy8000]

Thanks Greg,

The car already had it's annual in March of 07' as stated in the log book with sticker on cage. This is the part of racing that has really started to piss me off. I understand the point of safety, but this was rediculous. I was also told to cover the factory colored wires in the engine compartment so everything was black? Even friends at the track who have been racing for years warned me about TI like this. How does someone like this end up in this position? Obviously didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

[Greg Amy]

The guy sounds like an asshat. If you've already got your annual, show up at tech with your signed-off logbook and your stickered helmet and you're good to go. Fortunately, the VAST majority of SCCA tech inspectors are NOT like this.

Oh, and enjoy!

[JLawton]

Thanks Greg,

. This is the part of racing that has really started to piss me off. [/b]



Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole thing for you. Although it happens, it's not the norm. This forum is the place to get correct answers. It's not like other forums that have a bunch of wankers who think they know everything. The guys here actually do know everything, just ask 'em!! :D

[tom91ita]

aside from the rules and what may be stronger structurally, i have the following observation/comments.

at the IT fest, i was hit what seemed to be quite hard at the top of thunder valley at the fast left hander and was sent into the sand-trap.

it was enough of a hit that i thought my weekend was done. when i got out and looked, i could find essentially no damage except for a tire rub. closer examination showed that i was hit in the driver door but right at the height of the top nascar bar. a 1" by 1.5" piece of the plastic door panel on my crx is now gone.

this last weekend, another honda was hit on the passenger door by a neon. this honda has door bars that could have been installed without gutting the door. the door is completely gutted (NASA Honda Challenge legal) but where it was hit, the door is completely caved and essentially a write-off.

i agree with everything that was said above, especially getting the annual done ahead if you can. good luck and keep us informed.

[x-ring]

Here's what you want to do: find out who your regional or Divisional Chief of Tech is, and bring your car to them for an annual inspection IN ADVANCE OF THE EVENT.

[/b]

Chewy -

Your divisional chief is Bill Etherington. PM me and I'll give you his email and phone number.

[benspeed]

Bill is absolutely tops and frequents this site on occasion. You can count on a very pleasant experience working with him and he is very knowledgeable.

Cheers,

[seckerich]

And if you have the name of the official that told you to remove the bars file an official complaint with the regions chief of tech. That is how the bad apples get weeded out.

[x-ring]

Actually, Steve, the regional chief has no such authority. The divisional chief (divisional administrator) OTOH, does have the power to downgrade or refuse to renew a licensee.

EDIT: It could be that in a division larger than ours the 'chain of command' should flow up through the regional admin. I only have a handful of license holders to keep track of; maybe it’s different in populated areas. I didn't think of that until after I hit 'submit post' though.

[chewy8000]

I'm really not trying to screw someone over by getting their TI license revoked. I don't want to make any enemies in this sport, it's suppose to be fun. ;)

[greendot]

it's suppose to be fun. ;)
[/b]

How much fun do you suppose it is for the guys this TI give bad information to? (Giving him the benefit of the doubt.) He needs to at least get his information up to date and who is going to do that?

[RSTPerformance]

I'm really not trying to screw someone over by getting their TI license revoked. I don't want to make any enemies in this sport, it's suppose to be fun. ;)
[/b]

:023: Great attitude!!! Keep it :) :035:



How much fun do you suppose it is for the guys this TI give bad information to? (Giving him the benefit of the doubt.) He needs to at least get his information up to date and who is going to do that?
[/b]

I probably wouldn't put anything in writting but I would not be afraid to drop the name a few times infront of the right people to make it known that the right people need to have a one on one conversation with the TI.

Also Chewy don't forget that is a top 3 car in the Northeast, don't change anything!!! Just strap in and have fun!!! :smilie_pokal:

Raymond

[chewy8000]

I don't want to mess with anything. I know it's a good car and I think messing with the bars could throw off the weight. I would rather leave it alone if I can.

[seckerich]

I'm really not trying to screw someone over by getting their TI license revoked. I don't want to make any enemies in this sport, it's suppose to be fun. ;)
[/b]
Great attitude and it is about fun. It is not fun when an official gives bad information that causes a racer to spend lots of money on BS. It is the responsibility of the official to give accurate info or find someone who can. This was more than a bad answer to a question--that could be excused for lack of updated information. We can not all know everything about every class. We either read the book and see what is current or get another tech that knows to help. He went out of his way to have a vehicle that had a valid annual change a legal cage. Sorry--this should be dealt with and this tech needs to be informed he was wrong or he will do it again. Not about taking a license, just about getting it right next time. Do not be afraid to question any official in a polite manner if you think they are wrong. They put their pants on just like you. :D

[dickita15]

Great attitude and it is about fun. It is not fun when an official gives bad information that causes a racer to spend lots of money on BS. It is the responsibility of the official to give accurate info or find someone who can. This was more than a bad answer to a question--that could be excused for lack of updated information. We can not all know everything about every class. We either read the book and see what is current or get another tech that knows to help. He went out of his way to have a vehicle that had a valid annual change a legal cage. Sorry--this should be dealt with and this tech needs to be informed he was wrong or he will do it again. Not about taking a license, just about getting it right next time. Do not be afraid to question any official in a polite manner if you think they are wrong. They put their pants on just like you. :D
[/b]
Amen brother. I have found way too many racer and tech folk (and I am both) who do not check the book. If someone says something that is unreasonable, check the book. If done politely it should not cause problems. In the end we are responsible to understand our own rules.