KelleyHux
08-12-2007, 06:50 PM
I started this new thread, because I don't want the topic to get lost in the St Louis results.
Travis said:
and here's where you're not seeing the whole picture.
go look through the current mid-am standings for all classes. now take a look at how many times there are more than say.......5 cars in the same class actually RACING against each other. happened in SRF 3 of 11 races thus far, even SM has only had 5 or more cars in 4 of 11 events, ITA 5 of 11. no other classes EVER had more than 5 cars on the same track at the same time racing each other for championship points. seriously, what kind of 'championship' is it where cars don't even race each other on track?
furthering the problem is adding the Nashville event over the MAM weekend, no matter 'who called it first' during scheduling at the MiDiv convention. so now the very few handfull of people that might actually care about points are split in two, and we further the problem of not actually holding races, but rather parade laps for race cars. and btw, in regards to mid-am points, even if a MiDiv driver finishes 8th behind 7 SE drivers, he still gets 12pts because he is the first Mid-Am car to finish.
and yes, the hastings thing SUCKS for you guys way the heck over there, just like Memphis sucks for me, and i really don't expect to see many people from eastern midiv. as much as i don't like it, i'd be making the tow to STL/Memphis if we didn't have so many weekends on the calendar. but as we have it now, if i want to go racing/need points/whatever and this weekend's race is at Nashville/STL/MEM, i'm not going because all i have to do is wait a week or two and there will be another race much closer to home, saving me hundreds of dollars on fuel costs. i can get my 6 races in without hardly ever leaving my little area, same for you guys over there. it makes for a poor race on track, a poor social atmosphere in the paddock, and a poor financial situation for the regions.
cut about 5 weekends from our regional schedule and i'd bet you'd see more people from Kansas/Oklahoma/Omaha over in Illinois and Tennessee, and vice versa.
[/b]
then Lesley said:
The answer is to cut back on the number of weekends. No one in Midiv will deny that allowing the IT drivers an opportunity to drive on both days is good thing for both the regions and the drivers. However, if the collective racing groups continue to demand the same number of races year after year, nothing good is going to happen.
For example, St Louis currently holds 4 weekends, including a super-school / regional, two regional/nationals, and a double regional (but only one race for points). One of these weekends needs to go (I'll say it because you're not likely to hear it from anyone else).
The Topeka group is going to have to make some hard decisions; they had 4 weekends this year, including two single Nationals with no IT. Entries for the June event were way down from last year.
MAM had three, but one of them is a school/regional.
Hallett and Memphis are both down to 2, which seems okay, but neither group is doing a school (and probably don't need to, but it would be nice).
Ideally, we would find a way to do a super school with a double regional; entries would be up, and it would be more of an incentive to hold the school, plus more regional drivers would show up because of a two race weekend. I can't really justify driving from St Louis to MAM for a single IT race, and I'm sure there are a lot of others who feel the same way about driving to Hallett or Memphis for a single race.
[/b]
Then Scott said:
I'll second that! We've become oversaturated. It's great to have all of the new tracks available, but there's still only the same pot of drivers to pull from. Sure, more are added every year, but I'd guess that it's balanced out by the guys that get out (either permenantly or temporarily).
Nobody seems to want to give up their piece of the pie (races), even though the slices (driver entries) are getting smaller and smaller and the price (track fees) stays the same. A couple of bad race weekends and any region will be hurting BIGTIME.
It'll be interesting to see how many ITers show up for this bonus race weekend.
[/b]
Travis added:
i'm guessing the problem will get worse before it gets better.
from what i'm told, KVRG already has tentative plans to add back IT races to the national races next year. i believe we will also drop a weekend.
KVRG lost their ass on the school/regional, and i'm guessing the dbl regional as well. my guess is the dbl in july will be gone and moved back to a couple weeks after the STL super school to provide a fast track to a national license.
[/b]
Then Jarrod said:
I know a bunch of you know this already....but PLEASE let your RE and local race groups know about the conversation and feelings regarding too many events. The folks organizing and putting on the races need to understand that even the racers are getting spread too thin.
[/b]
Those of you who know me - know this is one of my "hot buttons" ... (I'll try not to stay on the soapbox too long.)
As a registrar/flagger/etc who worked over 120 days at the racetrack between 2001 and 2006. I'm tired. This year I finally managed to actually cut back. We've done one day at Hallett, one weekend at Heartland, and Will hasn't been to MAM yet this year due to business issues. So his total day count stands at three days, mine is at twelve days. And all the pre-race registrar prep isn't included in that count. (I went to Sebring for the other three days.)
I'm glad to hear the drivers are starting to get a little worn out too. Many of the workers are past worn out. Even though there are some folks who feel that a race can happen without the volunteers, that we could just pay people, etc., I feel very strongly that part of the enjoyment of a race weekend is knowing that the folks who are helping to put the event together are doing it because they want to.
As a division of 3500 people, how does it make any sense that we have 17 weekends of events on our calendar? And, we also have to consider that the RunOffs are in our division as well. Many of our workers want to support that event too. (And even some of the drivers - although I know this isn't the place to discuss drivers and RunOffs.)
PLEASE, PLEASE, talk to your RE and let them know if you feel there are too many races on the calendar. If you have a disagreement with your RE, talk to one of the other REs. (Chris Albin is the Southern Illinois RE - talk to Chris!)
Travis gave us the list of REs:
a link to a list of all MiDiv REs;
http://www.midiv.org/Code/RE_Editor.htm
[/b]Please express your opinions to your region leadership, so that when they participate in the upcoming scheduling conference call and the MiDiv Convention, they can speak for their members.
Okay - I'll go back to lurking now.
Kelley Huxtable
DMVR
"PLAY SAFE"
Travis said:
and here's where you're not seeing the whole picture.
go look through the current mid-am standings for all classes. now take a look at how many times there are more than say.......5 cars in the same class actually RACING against each other. happened in SRF 3 of 11 races thus far, even SM has only had 5 or more cars in 4 of 11 events, ITA 5 of 11. no other classes EVER had more than 5 cars on the same track at the same time racing each other for championship points. seriously, what kind of 'championship' is it where cars don't even race each other on track?
furthering the problem is adding the Nashville event over the MAM weekend, no matter 'who called it first' during scheduling at the MiDiv convention. so now the very few handfull of people that might actually care about points are split in two, and we further the problem of not actually holding races, but rather parade laps for race cars. and btw, in regards to mid-am points, even if a MiDiv driver finishes 8th behind 7 SE drivers, he still gets 12pts because he is the first Mid-Am car to finish.
and yes, the hastings thing SUCKS for you guys way the heck over there, just like Memphis sucks for me, and i really don't expect to see many people from eastern midiv. as much as i don't like it, i'd be making the tow to STL/Memphis if we didn't have so many weekends on the calendar. but as we have it now, if i want to go racing/need points/whatever and this weekend's race is at Nashville/STL/MEM, i'm not going because all i have to do is wait a week or two and there will be another race much closer to home, saving me hundreds of dollars on fuel costs. i can get my 6 races in without hardly ever leaving my little area, same for you guys over there. it makes for a poor race on track, a poor social atmosphere in the paddock, and a poor financial situation for the regions.
cut about 5 weekends from our regional schedule and i'd bet you'd see more people from Kansas/Oklahoma/Omaha over in Illinois and Tennessee, and vice versa.
[/b]
then Lesley said:
The answer is to cut back on the number of weekends. No one in Midiv will deny that allowing the IT drivers an opportunity to drive on both days is good thing for both the regions and the drivers. However, if the collective racing groups continue to demand the same number of races year after year, nothing good is going to happen.
For example, St Louis currently holds 4 weekends, including a super-school / regional, two regional/nationals, and a double regional (but only one race for points). One of these weekends needs to go (I'll say it because you're not likely to hear it from anyone else).
The Topeka group is going to have to make some hard decisions; they had 4 weekends this year, including two single Nationals with no IT. Entries for the June event were way down from last year.
MAM had three, but one of them is a school/regional.
Hallett and Memphis are both down to 2, which seems okay, but neither group is doing a school (and probably don't need to, but it would be nice).
Ideally, we would find a way to do a super school with a double regional; entries would be up, and it would be more of an incentive to hold the school, plus more regional drivers would show up because of a two race weekend. I can't really justify driving from St Louis to MAM for a single IT race, and I'm sure there are a lot of others who feel the same way about driving to Hallett or Memphis for a single race.
[/b]
Then Scott said:
I'll second that! We've become oversaturated. It's great to have all of the new tracks available, but there's still only the same pot of drivers to pull from. Sure, more are added every year, but I'd guess that it's balanced out by the guys that get out (either permenantly or temporarily).
Nobody seems to want to give up their piece of the pie (races), even though the slices (driver entries) are getting smaller and smaller and the price (track fees) stays the same. A couple of bad race weekends and any region will be hurting BIGTIME.
It'll be interesting to see how many ITers show up for this bonus race weekend.
[/b]
Travis added:
i'm guessing the problem will get worse before it gets better.
from what i'm told, KVRG already has tentative plans to add back IT races to the national races next year. i believe we will also drop a weekend.
KVRG lost their ass on the school/regional, and i'm guessing the dbl regional as well. my guess is the dbl in july will be gone and moved back to a couple weeks after the STL super school to provide a fast track to a national license.
[/b]
Then Jarrod said:
I know a bunch of you know this already....but PLEASE let your RE and local race groups know about the conversation and feelings regarding too many events. The folks organizing and putting on the races need to understand that even the racers are getting spread too thin.
[/b]
Those of you who know me - know this is one of my "hot buttons" ... (I'll try not to stay on the soapbox too long.)
As a registrar/flagger/etc who worked over 120 days at the racetrack between 2001 and 2006. I'm tired. This year I finally managed to actually cut back. We've done one day at Hallett, one weekend at Heartland, and Will hasn't been to MAM yet this year due to business issues. So his total day count stands at three days, mine is at twelve days. And all the pre-race registrar prep isn't included in that count. (I went to Sebring for the other three days.)
I'm glad to hear the drivers are starting to get a little worn out too. Many of the workers are past worn out. Even though there are some folks who feel that a race can happen without the volunteers, that we could just pay people, etc., I feel very strongly that part of the enjoyment of a race weekend is knowing that the folks who are helping to put the event together are doing it because they want to.
As a division of 3500 people, how does it make any sense that we have 17 weekends of events on our calendar? And, we also have to consider that the RunOffs are in our division as well. Many of our workers want to support that event too. (And even some of the drivers - although I know this isn't the place to discuss drivers and RunOffs.)
PLEASE, PLEASE, talk to your RE and let them know if you feel there are too many races on the calendar. If you have a disagreement with your RE, talk to one of the other REs. (Chris Albin is the Southern Illinois RE - talk to Chris!)
Travis gave us the list of REs:
a link to a list of all MiDiv REs;
http://www.midiv.org/Code/RE_Editor.htm
[/b]Please express your opinions to your region leadership, so that when they participate in the upcoming scheduling conference call and the MiDiv Convention, they can speak for their members.
Okay - I'll go back to lurking now.
Kelley Huxtable
DMVR
"PLAY SAFE"