NARRC Town Hall meeting at LRP

[Andy Bettencourt]

Will someone be posting an agenda so we can be prepared with ideas / questions / answers / proposals?

[RSTPerformance]

Andy-

We will be at Mid Ohio and wont be able to make any meetings. Their is also no formal way of "letting" those whom care (who is that on the NARRC committee?) know how we feel so... If you could please express mine and my brothers complete disatisfaction with how the NARRC was designed this season. Keep polotics out of the series and keep it how it was, not how it is now. I will respectfully keep all the other comments I have away from the computer as it will only get me in trouble!!!

Raymond "NARRC _______ ________ this season" Blethen

[dtanthon]

On the NARRC website is all the contact information for the NARRC committee. Email works or even picking up the phone and calling someone.

http://www.scca-nnjr.org/NNJR_Race/NARRC.shtml


NARRC - Town Hall meeting at Lime Rock Park

August 10, 2007

Friday night at 7PM in the Victory podium area

This will be a simple Town Hall meeting to discuss how the NARRC committee can make the NARRC series better in 2008.

All are welcome to attend and provide comment.

Feel free to email me your suggestions for 2008 (Darrell at NeedMoreRacing.com)

[RSTPerformance]

On the NARRC website is all the contact information for the NARRC committee. Email works or even picking up the phone and calling someone.

http://www.scca-nnjr.org/NNJR_Race/NARRC.shtml
NARRC - Town Hall meeting at Lime Rock Park

August 10, 2007

Friday night at 7PM in the Victory podium area

This will be a simple Town Hall meeting to discuss how the NARRC committee can make the NARRC series better in 2008.

All are welcome to attend and provide comment.

Feel free to email me your suggestions for 2008 (Darrell at NeedMoreRacing.com)
[/b]


Darrell-

I appreciate you making this post, it means that some things have changed and that you have an interest in making this series something that people want to compete in. The "people" in my region whom I spoke to didn't seem to care to much, and it was fustratig at best. I am glad to see that is not the case with you, and I do think that the Town Hall meeting is a huge step in the right direction, I wish I was able to go. If I get time, once Mid Ohio is done I will try to send you an e-mail with my "thought out" thoughts instead of some "web forum bashing before I think" type that I tend to get when anyone mentions NARRC and/or Lime Rock.

Raymond

[Andy Bettencourt]

Anyone wishing to put their thoughts down can also send them to me:

andy AT flatout-motorsports.com

I will make sure they not only get delivered in hardcopy but also voiced at the meeting.

************************************************** ****

Having said that, lets all keep in mind a few things:

LRP is expensive. IF we want to run there (and that is a big if), we will have to pay increased fees. If we 'vote with our wallets' to try and 'teach LRP a lesson', it won't work. LRP doesn't seem to need us. While that stinks, it is a fact of life. So how do we continue events at LRP without sinking regions who host undersubscibed events? Those regions then give up their dates because they can't take two big hits - or else they are bankrupt.

So do you drive people to those events via a points incentive? Pocono does it, LRP did it, people don't like it.

Or do you have LESS events (thereby making the smaller number of events almost manditory to attend to win something - which is the exact same NET effect except you have less choices for racing).

I guess you have to examine what kind of participant you are before you can evaluate the factors that will create and influence a good series. Title contender? There just for fun? Shooting for top 5 in points? Everyone is different and it will affect how you 'design' your optimal series. Think it over and write it down and run it through your head in order to come prepared. I know I will.

[robits325is]

A
LRP is expensive. IF we want to run there (and that is a big if), we will have to pay increased fees. If we 'vote with our wallets' to try and 'teach LRP a lesson', it won't work. LRP doesn't seem to need us. While that stinks, it is a fact of life. So how do we continue events at LRP without sinking regions who host undersubscibed events? Those regions then give up their dates because they can't take two big hits - or else they are bankrupt.

So do you drive people to those events via a points incentive? Pocono does it, LRP did it, people don't like it.

Or do you have LESS events (thereby making the smaller number of events almost manditory to attend to win something - which is the exact same NET effect except you have less choices for racing).

[/b]

Right now any driver running for points can pick and choose there 'best' or ' better' tracks Only using 8 races out of a possible 14 really allows drivers to skip all but one event at any specific track and still potentially win a championship. I would vote to reduce the number of dropped races. Maybe increase the number or points races from 8 to 10 plus make the runoffs mandatory.

Just my opinion.

[RSTPerformance]

Right now any driver running for points can pick and choose there 'best' or ' better' tracks Only using 8 races out of a possible 14 really allows drivers to skip all but one event at any specific track and still potentially win a championship. I would vote to reduce the number of dropped races. Maybe increase the number or points races from 8 to 10 plus make the runoffs mandatory.

Just my opinion.
[/b]

Rob-

Thats how it used to be...

Deleted the rest of the post sorry!!! Will e-mail as stated above after Mid Ohio!!!

Raymond "crap I am getting sucked in" Blethen

[cchandler]

Right now any driver running for points can pick and choose there 'best' or ' better' tracks Only using 8 races out of a possible 14 really allows drivers to skip all but one event at any specific track and still potentially win a championship. I would vote to reduce the number of dropped races. Maybe increase the number or points races from 8 to 10 plus make the runoffs mandatory.

Just my opinion.
[/b]


I agree with including more, or all, races for final points. Perhaps drop 2 races of the 14 race season (best result :unsure: , and worst result!!) Also, eliminate the bonus points.

[Doc Bro]

I couldn't agree with Rob and Christian more. A champion should be a champion. Consistency and results. Best 8 out of 14 is a joke. Skip almost half the season and still be "champ". 13 out of 14 makes a champ.

R

[kevin22]

I disagree. Not everyone could commit to a 14 race season. By making it a 13 out of 14 season you will just be giving the championship to those that have the time. In some cases it may be the fastest and most consistant drivers, but in other cases it will just be the guy with the least family or work obligations.

I don't agree with giving 12 bonus points for going to Pocono, If you want to give a 3 track bonus it should be any 3 tracks.

Having a mother can be a real disadvantage , Double weekend and bonus points. You will be playing catch up all season.

I do think their should be incentive to run other tracks, But no track should get more of a bonus then any other.

I sometimes question doubling the points of the runoffs,

[Tkczecheredflag]

Hopefully this can be discussed on Friday. I will say that I lean more towards Robert's thinking than Kevin.

To win a championship you should committ the resources of time, money and talent to the series. If you look back at past champions I suspect you would see that they made the committment and the sacrifices necessary to achieve their championship goal. It's mostly about showing up for all the races and trying to finish on the podium every race weekend. It's nice to be able to choose your best 8 races, I have benefited from this rule in the past - but I feel it is extremely generous to all drivers, including the champion - but those are the current rules.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I think I am somewhere inbetween. You ask people to go to 14 events with no drops it becomes an attendance award. This would benefit me and a few others but I just don't see how requiring 'regular' guys to give up complete family life is a good thing for the SCCA or the NARRC. We do do this for fun afterall. If it was a Pro Series yes...but it's so far from that it's silly.

If I was to design the perfect situation (IMHO), it would look like this:

- Assuming 14 races in 2007 (6 races at NHIS, 5 at LRP, 2 at Pocono and 1 at WGI)

- 12 races in 2008 (less races = potential more attendance at each race - supply/demand)

- Best 10 count

- More diverse tracks (add another Pocono, drop an NHIS and an LRP - another Glen?)

- Consider WGI for two races (but understand that the Glen Region is NOT part of the NARRC)

- No bonus points for track attendance (understanding attendance at Pocono on Mothers Day will take a HUGE hit)

- Create new points structure - I like how the NYR does it for giving points for your finishing position + 1 point for everyone you beat. This rewards the guy who comes in 10th, but who beats 10 other guys, with some points - where as right now he/she woudn't score anything. The more people who score 'points', the better IMHO. Points for P1 qualifier? Top 3 qualifiers?

- Add a creative event...what - I don't know. Reverse grid with a change in points? Starting position + positions 'gained'...+ a qualifying bonus...could be fun.

What idea sucks? What else? What do we want to ASK the NARRC committee for?

How about a racer from each region on the committee instead of just the BoD Chair and the Comp Board Chair?

[Magical Trevor]

Way off topic, but-
Andy, you're forgetting NJMP/Thunderbolt. I'd rather see at least two there (hey, it should have some sort of paved surface by mid summer '08 :D ), and one or both gone from Pocono (Pennsylvania doesn't border the Atlantic... New York does :P ) .
Sorry for the derailment, it's still in the middle of '07... carry on discussion :P

[dtanthon]

Round 11 NARRC points are posted.

Keep the comments coming, what do YOU want in 2008? The main meeting for 2008 will be at the Mini-Convention in Rocky Hill in November. Get involved with your region and YOUR series.


Thunderbolt and Lightning at New Jersey Motorsports Park in South Jersey will be open in June 2008. Include these new tracks in NARRC?

Pocono - We only get one weekend and that will be Mother's Day again. We don't get to pick, Pocono tells us. We ask each year for an additional weekend and a date change and each year it is the same answer.

LRP - I heard SCCA gets 4 weekends next year. They tell us what dates we get as well.

WGI - Ask the committee to ask the Glen or Finger Lakes regions to host another NARRC. There should be 3 regional events there in 2008 AFAIK.


What about an overall NARRC champion?


Thanks,
Darrell Anthony
NNJR-RE

[Andy Bettencourt]

Way off topic, but-
Andy, you're forgetting NJMP/Thunderbolt. I'd rather see at least two there (hey, it should have some sort of paved surface by mid summer '08 :D ), and one or both gone from Pocono (Pennsylvania doesn't border the Atlantic... New York does :P ) .
Sorry for the derailment, it's still in the middle of '07... carry on discussion :P [/b]

Not really forgetting it - for a couple reasons. 1. It's not done yet so it isn't even open and 2. It's in Southern Jersey, which makes it not technically part of the NARRC Series. It could abviously be added but it does make sense to keep things sort of close to the core group of members. Having said that, the Glen is just as far away...but where does it end?

[Magical Trevor]

The arctic! :biggrinsanta: :snow_cool:
Sorry again... :bash_1_:

[RSTPerformance]

Andy-

I don't like your idea on getting points for each person you beat... While I think it works for the NYR people it will only kill attendance even more at Pocono and other low entry races IMO... I don't like the idea that if 5 people make the commitment they hardly get any points for being on the podium.

I do like the idea for bonus points such as:

- 5 points per track, no super 12 point bonus for the third track. (WGI and other tracks/regions should become part of the NARRC simply because NARRC should represent the North Atlantic, not just New England)

- Qualifying first through third (3 points for first, 2 for second, and 1 for third?)

- Bonus points for beating cars if the class has 10 or more starters.

Raymond

[Andy Bettencourt]

So let me ask this, at the Mother's Day Double at Poconon this year we we had:

ITS: 15
ITA: 17
ITB: 4
ITC: 1
ITR: 2

If we don't 'incent' people to go, or effectively force them via the points system, then entries would go way down. I know I wouldn't go. Tough weekend family-wise and certainly a haul. So if an event can't stand on its own merits in terms of draw and participation, why have it?

Is it just a fact of life that we need to 'push' people to round out events if they expect to compete for a class championship? Discuss.

Keep the ideas coming. What would YOU do? (A collective you)

[Doc Bro]

Andy,

It always amazes me that Pocono is so disliked. I'm not a fan either. I can't understand why the potential of Pocono is not used better. Perhaps a "Pocono Mini-series" using the alternate course configurations would be more enticing. It would certainly make it more interesting. I'm not advocating a second stop there just a restructuring of our one event. The trend in NASCAR is to repave their tracks so they are silky smooth so they can eliminate the suspension. Maybe if they repave Pocono it would be more appealing.

The Pocono weekend is also interesting socially. It always feels apathetic. The weather is fickle, the competitors are there because they have to be. The support staff seems to feel it as well. I race there because winter is long, so I try to race as much as possible. We ALWAYS debate Pocono.

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy,

It always amazes me that Pocono is so disliked. I'm not a fan either. I can't understand why the potential of Pocono is not used better. Perhaps a "Pocono Mini-series" using the alternate course configurations would be more enticing. It would certainly make it more interesting. I'm not advocating a second stop there just a restructuring of our one event. The trend in NASCAR is to repave their tracks so they are silky smooth so they can eliminate the suspension. Maybe if they repave Pocono it would be more appealing.

The Pocono weekend is also interesting socially. It always feels apathetic. The weather is fickle, the competitors are there because they have to be. The support staff seems to feel it as well. I race there because winter is long, so I try to race as much as possible. We ALWAYS debate Pocono.

R [/b]

I am with you. I think the track is what limits peoples enjoyment...not the surface but the fact it's a 5-turn autox connected by two ginormous straights. I would rather add an event at WGI...

[Zephyr]

I think the track is what limits peoples enjoyment...not the surface but the fact it's a 5-turn autox connected by two ginormous straights.[/b]

Just out of curiousity why is it that SCCA only runs that one configuration? Other clubs run with a double infield which is a very fun configuration, well at least in a slow car it's fun. Other clubs also run the single infield the opposite direction too. Doing the long course is ungodly boring in an ITB/H5 car.

Zephyr

[benspeed]

I know first hand from being Treasurer for the NNJR that if Pocono was somehow disincented from the NARRC, the NNJR region would run the risk of becoming financially challenged to provide services to the membership. Pocono is the one event that actually did a little better than break even and covers some of the losses the region incurred from other events. If that event lost 20-30 registrations it would run at a financial loss.

I like the idea of adding more Watkins Glen points events (3) and I think we should consider Thunderbolt when the track is ready. This adds to the prestige of winning a NARRC championship by including 5 tracks.
Some folks may not like heading down to south Jersey - but some folks feel the same way about heading up to NH - and that's were the majority of the points races have traditionally been held. The series has made huge progress over the last 2 seasons to even up the disparity.

So I'd summarize with:

13 races and drop 3
Even up the events across the tracks - 3 Glen, 2 Pocono, 4 NHIS, 4 LRP
Same position points as currently accrued - but add points for each person you beat similar to NYSRRC
Make Thunderbolt as a consideration
No double points for the NAARC Offs - that's a spoiler
Give Pocono a special incentive or we might lose that event

[RKramden]

I do like the idea for bonus points such as:

- 5 points per track, no super 12 point bonus for the third track. (WGI and other tracks/regions should become part of the NARRC simply because NARRC should represent the North Atlantic, not just New England)

- Qualifying first through third (3 points for first, 2 for second, and 1 for third?)

- Bonus points for beating cars if the class has 10 or more starters.
[/b]

Ray,

I would take bets that if the NARRC committee did something like this that they would also be looking for yet another pointskeeper.

It's a real nightmare from the perspective of figuring out how many starters there were and adjusting all the points based on crossing the magical threshold. (Some results are loaded with errors including people listed at starters who were never even there.)

Simple is better.

[RSTPerformance]

Ray,

I would take bets that if the NARRC committee did something like this that they would also be looking for yet another pointskeeper.

It's a real nightmare from the perspective of figuring out how many starters there were and adjusting all the points based on crossing the magical threshold. (Some results are loaded with errors including people listed at starters who were never even there.)

Simple is better.
[/b]


Easy fix... with bonus :OLA:

Have a class represenative (by class I mean IT, Production, Open Wheel, Etc.) whom keeps points and represents the group(s) that they represent at ALL NARRC meetings and decisions.

Raymond

[dickita15]

Hmm. Get drivers to help with administrative duties. Yea that sounds easy. :bash_1_:

[lateapex911]

Hmm. Get drivers to help with anything. Yea that sounds easy. :bash_1_: [/b]

fixed that for you....


(OK, that's not entirely fair, as I know lots of drivers who really work hard at various specialties, either regionally or nationally, but I also know the other side...........)

[dickita15]

(OK, that's not entirely fair, as I know lots of drivers who really work hard at various specialties, either regionally or nationally, but I also know the other side...........)
[/b]

it is a very very small percentage. :(

[Andy Bettencourt]

OK, enough of that. If some new ideas come up that require some more work, I am sure people will step up as needed.

[BlueStreak]

Committee for people named Trevor, Eddie, John, and Matt to sign their posts.
[/b]

How many people are on this committee :lol: ? Why wasn't I invited to be on it?

[dickita15]

OK, enough of that. If some new ideas come up that require some more work, I am sure people will step up as needed.
[/b]

:lol:

[Magical Trevor]

Speaking of extra work and all this other unpleasant stuff-how did yesterday's thing in Palmer go, Dick?

(Though I'm hoping and assume it was, actually, pleasant... )

[dickita15]

Speaking of extra work and all this other unpleasant stuff-how did yesterday's thing in Palmer go, Dick?

(Though I'm hoping and assume it was, actually, pleasant... )
[/b]
Postponed for two weeks due to lack of quorum. No big deal all feedback still positive.

[Magical Trevor]

No big deal all feedback still positive.
[/b]

As I thought. :) Still, these delays suck :P

[raffaelli]

Where can I find the entry list?