Speedsource Sway Bar

[mbuskuhl]

I have a spending/buying problem, not a good match for the racing hobby as it doesn't stop. I'm looking for feedback on the Speedsource front sway bar. I have come across an opportunity to purchase a used but complete one with the billet mounts for $300. No one is at Speedsource this week so I don't even know if that's a decent deal, I'm told this setup is $600 new.

Currently my setup is...
550# front springs, stock sway bar
300# rear springs, no sway bar
single adjustable Koni's all around
Racing beat front strut bar
all the other right parts (bushings, camber/caster adj, etc)

Car handles pretty decent, but it can always be better right?

Last week I bought and they are in the mail....
double adjustable Koni fronts and custom double adjustable Koni rears (from the same guy who has the sway bar - there's also an Accusmp in the mail from him)

Question: Front Speedsource Sway Bar....

a. get it now
b. good to have
c. buy something else
d. keep the stock bar

...now back to work so I can pay for this stuff. Thanks.

[seckerich]

Great setup and adjustable. I don't think Sylvain has any more in stock so you better get it while you can.

[Black91n/aRX-7]

AWR sells a setup for $465, ISC sells one for $275, so depending on which one it is it might be a good deal. It's good to be able to adjust the balance for different tracks, and this will allow you to do that.

[Chris Wire]

I believe the ISC and Speedsource bars and arms are the same, the only difference is in the mounts themselves. I think Speedsource topped ISC on those, but I don't think it justifies a $300 diff in price when new. If the used bar is in good shape and includes the mounts, I'd go w/ the used Speedsource bar and the good mounts vs. the ISC stuff new.

[ddewhurst]

Some what side tracked. Chris or anyone else do you have a contact (site or ?) for for a guy by the last name of Sayner from Florida who has a shop/? that sells sway bars ?

Thanks

[mbuskuhl]

I appreciate the input, thanks. I just realized there may be a fitment issue, or am I mistaken? I'm running the Mazdacomp/AWR/Ron Davis radiator - http://www.awrracing.com/store/product_inf...6&products_id=3 (http://www.awrracing.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=12_1_6&products_id=3)
I can only move it up about 1" more and it looks like it would need to go up at least 3" if this bar mounts how and where I think it does (I have not seen one in person). With the pics below and knowing the radiator can only move up 1"or so (that's all that's left between hood and cap), will a speedway type bar fit? Looks like I may need one with a bend instead. What you see now is a stock bar. Thanks.

Driver side view looks clear
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/5691/pict0150zt8.jpg

Passenger side view - return neck in the way?
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5628/pict0151me8.jpg

Close up of return neck area
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6684/pict0152js9.jpg

Top view - notice return neck
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4643/pict0154df4.jpg

[JeffYoung]

Your car is way to clean man.

[ddewhurst]

First I need to state that I don't know $hit about the mounting area for the sway bar for a 2nd gen.

Questions:

First, what diameter is the OEM bar now in the car ?

Second, if your OEM bar was straight with no bend between bushings would if fit straight through ?

Third, if the answer is yes to the second question, what diameter straight Speedway bar would you be using & would it fit straight through ?

Fourth, you could help yourself with the any roll bar rule by fabricating different bushing brackets IF required.

Fifth, you could disconnect one end of your sway bar & with a pull scale at a 8 inch length on the disconnected end pull the bar arm 5*, read the pounds of the pull scale at 5* & you will have a number that you may cross reference within the Speedway Engineering reference charts. (it will not be dead ass perfect but it will be good enough to get in the ball park) With you OEM bar length, your arm load at your 8 inch pull to 5* you will find which Speedway bar would be equal to your OEM bar. Next pick out a bar per the load you require. Check if that new diameter Speedway bar will fit straight through.

[sirchadd]

I run a speedsource car, looked at mine and our radiators are very simular. On mine the swaybar of course is adjustable. the one I have is a speedsoure sway bar, I compared it to a friends, he got his from ISC they are almost a mirror image. I would get the ISC kit from Mike, just show him the picture you have online.

[sirchadd]

Still the new setup sounds great.

[bldn10]

Mark, somewhere in the archives is a post of mine where I commented on the Mazda comp radiator - SpeedSource/Speedway sway bar problem. That damn neck is in the way. I mounted my radiator as high as it would go (notched out the hood a bit) and installed some spacers or pillow blocks between the sway bar brackets and frame rails. Billet aluminum would be better, of course, but I think I recall using 1" square tubing. FWIW I did not notice any better cooling w/ that radiator, although it may have been improved since then.

[Weaver7]

Does the majority agree to remove the rear sway bar???

Bill Weaver
ITS RX-7 #63

[Chris Wire]

I don't know if this setup is within the letter of the rules, and I don't have time to look right now. That said, this Mazdatrix setup is the sweetest setup going, and I'd seriously consider it once you get past the legality issue. It would definitely solve your problem:

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faqpics/roadrace/ep12292as.jpg
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faqpics/roadrace/ep12292bs.jpg
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faqpics/roadrace/ep01063cs.jpg
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faqpics/roadrace/ep01063ab.jpg

[mbuskuhl]

I believe that setup is one of a kind for their EP car and was unable to find on the Mazdatrix site.

Regarding the Speedsource bar, I'm going to play around with my radiator and see if I can get it low enough and have the bar run over the return neck rather than try for below it by dropping the mounts from the original Speedsource design and cutting the hood. If I can drop the radiator enough I'm going to get the bar, of course I've got to make sure the car will still cool right.

Here's what the GCR says...

1. Any anti-roll bar(s), traction bar(s), panhard rod or watts linkage may be added or substituted, provided its/their installation serves no other purpose. The mounts for these devices may be welded or bolted to the structure of the vehicle. No suspension control mount or component shall be located in the trunk or driver/passenger compartment unless installed by the manufacturer as original equipment. Traction bars used to control axle rotation shall be one piece solid bar or tube. Heim rod ends may be fitted.

2. On those cars where an anti-roll bar also acts as a suspension locating device, the diameter of the bar may be changed. Bar attachment and pivot points on the chassis and control arms shall remain as stock, except as provided for in these Rules, Sections D.5.d.1., and 3.

[sirchadd]

If I had a rear sway bar I would sell it on ebay. I feel the car doesn't handle very well with it. My opinion, bye bye rear sway bar.

[Chris Wire]

... Bar attachment and pivot points on the chassis and control arms shall remain as stock...
[/b]

Aw shucks, foiled again!

[wrankin]

Aw shucks, foiled again!
[/b]

I wonder. If I read that correctly, it's only on cars where the sway bar acts as a suspension locating device that you have to keep the mount and pivot points the same (similar to not being able to relocate any of the other suspension pickup points). The RX-7 doesn't use it in this fashion.

Or am I reading that incorrectly?

-bill

[JeffYoung]

THat's the way I read it. My car uses the front sway bar to locate the control fore and aft. That means under the rule I can't change the attachment points for the bar -- otherwise, I would essentially be allowed to move a suspension pick up point and, for example, deal with bump steer when I normally couldn't.

You guys don't use the bar to locate a suspension piece, so I think that means they are 100% free.

[Chris Wire]

THat's the way I read it. My car uses the front sway bar to locate the control fore and aft. That means under the rule I can't change the attachment points for the bar -- otherwise, I would essentially be allowed to move a suspension pick up point and, for example, deal with bump steer when I normally couldn't.

You guys don't use the bar to locate a suspension piece, so I think that means they are 100% free.
[/b]

Ah, hope springs eternal (or some BS like that!).

That's a great perspective, I guess I should read the rules more critically. I don't currently have any issues with radiator/bar clearance, but it would help to get the arms more horizontal and maybe (or maybe not) make the sway bar more effective and tuneable.

[seckerich]

Might want to look again. Find where it says you can go through the bodywork to mount it. Cool setup best left to production.

[Scooter]

Hey, I have to ask since my car was setup about six years ago. You say that you are running 550 # springs in front and 330 in the rear? Mine is only 375 in front and 275 rear.

Right now I'm running single-adjustable Konis, but I'm thinking of switching to the Advanced Design shocks pretty soon. Should I order new springs as well?

Right now I'm running a bigger ST bar up front, and I'm assuming that's where some of the extra spring is coming from. Is it better to run those heavier springs and less bar? (I have no rear bar.)

Any input from anyone is appreciated!

[Chris Wire]

Might want to look again. Find where it says you can go through the bodywork to mount it. Cool setup best left to production.
[/b]

1. Any anti-roll bar(s), traction bar(s), panhard rod or watts linkage may be added or substituted, provided its/their installation serves no other purpose. The mounts for these devices may be welded or bolted to the structure of the vehicle. No suspension control mount or component shall be located in the trunk or driver/passenger compartment unless installed by the manufacturer as original equipment. Traction bars used to control axle rotation shall be one piece solid bar or tube. Heim rod ends may be fitted.

To quote Geo, "If it says you can, then you bloody well can!"

And in the text above, I see no limitations other than the stipulation "serves no other purpose". And as has been stated before, once the allowance to add or substitute has been given, you are then only limited by additional language in the rule.

"Any" - means there is no limitation except:
"serves no other purpose",
"no...located in trunk or d/p compartment unless installed by OEM"

Not that I intend to, since I have no issues with my current setup. But as Bill and Jeff pointed out, I believe it's entirely within the rules to do so.

[wlfpkrcn]

ISC sells an 1 1/4" hollow front bar. Speedway sells a 1" solid and the larger hollow bars. My brother in law picked up suspension from a guy that was going to build an EP car. He got a 1"solid bar with the shocks and control arms. It looks like the solid runs 30-60lbs less than a .095 Hollow bar, pending bar and arm lengths. Should we buy a 1 1/4" inch bar or use the 1" and compensate with spring rate? Opinions? Anyone running the 1" solid Speedway bar? This is for a second gen RX7