Bad Clutch, need help...

[RSTPerformance]

In the last few races that I had my clutch kept getting soaked in oil from what I thought was a really bad rear main seal. I changed it several times (along with the clutch) to try and fix it. I have finally figured out it was actually the transmission that was leaking, not the engine. I can't find a place to get just a clutch plate but rather the entire package (throw out bearing, Pressure plate & clutch). It seams like such a waste to get the entire kit when everything is perfect except the fact that the clutch is soaked in oil.

Can the clutch be cleaned and re-used? or do I need to buy a new one?

If I need to get a new one does anyone know where I would be able to find either a stock clutch plate only or a racing clutch for a 1984 Audi Coupe???

Thanks for any help or guidence;

Raymond

[joeg]

You can clean it; lot's of degreaser and Coca Cola; numerous applications and drying time intervals. When you think you have it clean use some 120 grit sand paper and more brake-kleen.

The dealer can't get you a NOS OEM driven disk?

If you have the official factory part number, look on www.motorplace.com and search with the part number.

Good Luck.

[CaptJon]

Ray, I had the exact same thing with my Rabbit. We had cleaned it of using staring fluid before we installed the tranny with new seals. Even with that cleaning it took 5-6 laps before the clutch started grabbing like it should. Once it burned off the little bit of residual oils it worked fine. The Prod. cars I crew for routinely re-use clutch plates that have had oil on them.

Jon

[JimLill]

If I need to get a new one does anyone know where I would be able to find either a stock clutch plate only or a racing clutch for a 1984 Audi Coupe???[/b]

http://www.clutchnet.com/search.php?mode=search

[Spinnetti]

I figure that with the hassle of taking it all apart, why gamble on an oiled clutch? Seems, um... that your time ain't worth much!

There is a shop in Lansing Michigan: "Clutch Dynamics" (look in the yellow pages) that does my clutches. This is NOT a store or "tuner". This guy builds clutches exclusively (mostly heavy truck type stuff I think), and is not a retail type place but if you are patient, he can help you out at excellent prices (you have to send a check - no CC's). I get 4 puck ceramic discs with unsprung hubs, and they work great.

What caught my eye on this thread is that I have had the EXACT same situation.. replaced the clutch twice now, but it doesn't seem to be the tranny.. sending the disc back to get redone again.. I reuse the hub and disc, and he just puts new pucks on the disc. This time I yanked the motor to have a better look at the freaking rear main (hmm, maybe my oil pressure too high?).

[racer_tim]

I'm showing on the Sachs site, that it's 8.5" OD, 13/16" ID, and 24 Teeth.

P/N KF117-02

What is the original material? Some kind of metalic or ?

You might want to take it to a brake / clutch specialist, and have them put new "pucks" on it. That's what I've done with my VW clutch disk.

[RSTPerformance]

I'm showing on the Sachs site, that it's 8.5" OD, 13/16" ID, and 24 Teeth.

P/N KF117-02

What is the original material? Some kind of metalic or ?

You might want to take it to a brake / clutch specialist, and have them put new "pucks" on it. That's what I've done with my VW clutch disk.
[/b]


thanks for the reply's all... I now can find "Stock" clutches without getting the entire package, saves soooo much money!!! :happy204:

I currently use as stock clutch, but can I get a racing clutch? or should I stick with the stock one? I see that you have "pucks" put on but whom/where can I do this?

Raymond

[itmanta]

I would strongly recommend clutchnet. Get their sprung six puck disk. it will virtually never wear out and even if it gets oiul on it you will never know the difference.

[Spinnetti]

thanks for the reply's all... I now can find "Stock" clutches without getting the entire package, saves soooo much money!!! :happy204:

I currently use as stock clutch, but can I get a racing clutch? or should I stick with the stock one? I see that you have "pucks" put on but whom/where can I do this?

Raymond
[/b]



I kinda pre-answered your questions.. just look up a couple posts :)

[RSTPerformance]

Ah yes you did... thank you!!!

Raymond

[racer_tim]

Raymond, all you need to do is convert 8" into mm and you got it made.

http://www.kennedyeng.com/jap_car.htm

We make 4 pad metallic discs in 180mm, 190mm, 200mm, 210mm, 212mm, 214/215mm, 220mm, 224/225mm, 228mm, 236mm, 240mm. $72

6 pad disc sizes can be 200mm, 210mm, 212mm, 214/215mm, 220mm, 224/225mm, 228mm, 236mm, 240mm, 250mm. $95

Spline sizes: 13/16 x 24 teeth, that's your size

KEP Designation is shown at the below link. It's for a VW but the disk is just like the one I run.

http://www.kennedyeng.com/vwpo_dis.htm

So, it looks like 8" is 200mm, which just happens to be one of the VW sizes. Have you tried one of those?

The nice thing about a "puck" design, you can get all kinds of oil and grease on these things, and they will still work. Not that I would recommend dumping oil in there and testing it, but ..................

[RSTPerformance]

ok... Trying to determine between getting the stock Sachs clutch disc or a racing disc from KEP Import or one from Clutch Net. but I have a couple questions...

Sprung hub or Solid hub?

3 button, 4 button, 5 button, 6 button, etc... What is the difference, and what do I want for an ITB car with a quaife?

Will this put more stress on the axles/CV joints?

can any disk be used with a stock pressure plate? Clutch Net has some comment on some products to be sure to purchase out pressure plate as well, is that just to get me to spend another $300+?

Do these "Racing" clutches need replacement often? I have never had to replace the clutch in the racecar until this oil...

Do you have a specific recomendation or any experience with these aftermarket clutch companies?

I am going to call Clutchnet today to get the "sellers" opinions, but I was hoping to get some expert thoughts first;

Raymond "You guys have been a great source, thank you very much" Blethen

PS: I would have something made as suggested by some above (such as usig Clutch Dynamics) but time is starting to get short, I want to run a test day next thursday with the car to be sure that the clutch works without issue instead of waiting till I am 12 hrs away in Ohio...

[RSTPerformance]

Here are some of the products that I am looking at from Clutch Net... I have no idea what to get and/or why...

"CUSH LOCK" MARCEL SOLID HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...52&cat=0&page=3 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=52&cat=0&page=3)

SMOOTH LOCK" MARCEL SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...15&cat=0&page=3 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=3115&cat=0&page=3)

SPORT, "KEVLAR" ® SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC KEVLAR®
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...30&cat=0&page=3 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=11130&cat=0&page=3)

STREET/STRIP "KEVLAR"® SOLID HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...88&cat=0&page=3 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=2088&cat=0&page=3)

SPORT, "FIBER-CARBON" SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...82&cat=0&page=2 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=4082&cat=0&page=2)

SPORT, "FIBER-CARBON" SOLID HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...70&cat=0&page=2 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=1070&cat=0&page=2)

RACING 6 BUTTON “E-Z LOCK” ™ SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...33&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=17233&cat=0&page=1)

RACING 6 BUTTON “QUICK LOCK” ™ SOLID HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...70&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=14170&cat=0&page=1)

RACING 4 BUTTON “E-Z LOCK” ™ SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...12&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=16212&cat=0&page=1)

RACING 4 BUTTON “QUICK LOCK” ™ SOLID HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...49&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=13149&cat=0&page=1)

RACING 3 BUTTON “E-Z LOCK” ™ SPRUNG HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...91&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=15191&cat=0&page=1)

RACING 3 BUTTON “QUICK LOCK” ™ SOLID HUB CLUTCH DISC
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...28&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=12128&cat=0&page=1)

Yellow PERFORMANCE PRESSURE PLATES
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...28&cat=0&page=4 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=19228&cat=0&page=4)

Red PERFORMANCE PRESSURE PLATES
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?produ...80&cat=0&page=3 (http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=20180&cat=0&page=3)

[shwah]

I run a solid center Kennedy 4 puck. We oiled it down just past halfway on Sunday. It continued to grip fine to complete the race.

[Eagle7]

The solid puck is much like an on/off switch. Makes it more difficult in paddock and especially when trailering. I stall it more than I'd like to admit. Reports are that the sprung hub is much more forgiving.

[RSTPerformance]

Can you use a "stock" pressure plate with the 4 puck solid clutch or do I need to buy one of those "high performance" ones?

Raymond

[shwah]

I use a stock PP.

[Spinnetti]

I've run a number of them..
Sounds like you are not torque limited, so maybe just a stock disk is ok - cheap and easy.

If you run the ceramic puck clutches, the stock pressure plate is just fine. Remember that the clamping load is spring pressure over the in^2 of disc, and the ceramic pucks have about 1/3 less area, thus upping the clamping load a lot. Some shops will try to sell you a load of hooey, but its really not that complicated.

In my 170hp street MR2 with a light flywheel, I ran a 3 puck ceramic (big pucks) on a sprung hub. Drove just like stock, and is still going best I know (sold it some years ago). This would easily hold under a full rpm dump, which is pretty good on a mid-engine car.

In my Current IT Corolla, I run a full race disk - no springs, no marcels, nothing - solid disk. It also drives just like stock with easy engagement. Neither of these with the ceramic "buttons" (pucks) work when you oil them down, but they grip way beyond what the motor can produce when dry, and will probably last the life of the car.

In my 350+hp Audi 1.8T, I'm putting in the same stuff, only with 6 pucks and a sprung hub (will go in the car in a couple weeks)

I suppose in some cars, especially low torque like the Mazda it could be challenging, but for my few cars with them they drove totally normally - YMMV I guess.

Basically, don't sweat it too much. Any of these solutions would work fine. My clutch guy says avoid kevlar like the plague, but otherwise you should be fine. I like the unsprung hub since its the lightest of the whole lot, but I tend to count grams when I build my cars.

[RSTPerformance]

I have decided to go with the solid center Kennedy 6 puck disk.

I wanted to thank all of you for the information. I have learned a lot more than I knew 1 week ago. I just wanted to give some initial feedback to help others. I will give more performance feedback after I have run the car with the new "Racing" clutch.

Clutchnet was not responsive at all. I left phone messages on an answering machine that doesn't even give a greeting that includes the company name, so I have to wonder how big the company is considering it has over 30,000 products listed on the website... I also sent an e-mail and have not got a reply.

Kennedy Engineered Products (KEP) was excellent. I called them and they answered the phone, then listened to me, and gave advice on what product to get. He offered to make anything I wanted but made his suggestions. He also is going to make the clutch with a 1/2 day lead time and ship it to me so that I have it in time to make it to a test day next thursday. :happy204:

Raymond "Stephen will now have a dam excuse why I kick his but in Ohio :smilie_pokal: lol" Blethen

[Eric Parham]

I drove a '93 S4 (20V Turbo) the other day. If you can find and use that stock PP, it seemed MUCH stiffer than the 10V version in my old Audi 90. I bet the 20V NA is somewhere in between.

[RSTPerformance]

My head/neck is killing me, but I am still happy with the results from our test day today!!! The clutch made by Kennedy Engineering Poducts was great!!! The cars shifting is completely different. My shifting patterns work perfectly withthe clutch as it seems as though I am now speedshifting with ease, the car never seems to not be in gear and pulls the entire time while shifting!!! I am hoping it will produce great gains on uphill shifts especially!!!

Also props to them for meeting my high demands and making, then getting me a clutch within 2 business days (and it was shipped from Cali to NH in that time frame) at a very reasonable price (Cheaper than one might think).

Raymond "no down time" Blethen