ITC Rabbit to GP

[thedemoguy]

I'm not a good spectator so I would like to turn my ITC Rabbit in to a GP car so I can run the nationals.
I have a ITB that I'll be running at Mid-Ohio next week, because they added the IT classes to the national race, I wish they would make IT a permanent part of all SCCA national races.

So back to the question, What would I have to do to make my ITC {1.6 engine, 4 speed} a competitive GP car. ?

I can look in the GCR for all the specs but is it worth it or would I be wasting time and money to run in the back of the pack, I don't like the back of the pack

How much would it cost ?
Or should I just go to the kart track if there isn't a regional race in the area.

Bill super fast Johnson
#13 ITB VW Jetta from Nelson :eclipsee_steering:

[jlinfert]

If I were you I might want to wait and see wha happens to Gprod before I switched classes. Rumor has it that G is going away next year. You could build a limited prep Hprod car But you might want to wait there too. I've also heard rumors that SCCA is going to poll drivers about IT running nationally.

[mrjones2]

The 1.6 ITC car goes right into HP in limited prep form. I got one, and it actually won a national once!

Other than bumping the compression up to 11:1 & adding a big fat cam, theres not too much else engine stuff to do. I've got a fiberglass company that makes an 8 piece fibreglass bodykit (4 fenders, hood, hatch, 2 part airdam) which allows you to run 9.5" slicks if you want to.

Anyway, send me an email for details

kendall

[thedemoguy]

What would a kit like that cost me ?

Thanks
Bill

[racer_tim]

Kendalls full kit is about $1,500. But if you run the 20x8x13 slick on a 13x6 rim, you don't need the flares.

I did the same with my ITB GTI, and converted it to Limited Prep G Production. Little hotter cam, flat top pistons to get to the compression I wanted, relocated the battery to the passenger seat area, Lexan windshield, fuel cell, fire system, removed the heater core and the A/C crap, window straps and clips, removed the lights, all door glass, and that's about it.

I ran many regionals with the r430 Goodyear or r45 Hoosier 20x8x13 slicks and didn't have any problem with them not lasting. I purchased most of my tires as take-offs from the National guys, who usually only run them between 4-5 heat cycles. I'd then rum them another 8-10 sessions, depending upon the wear.

I only entered 1 national but didn't get past the first turn, so I'm not sure if those tires would've lasted the entire 30 minute race, but I suspected they would.

I agree, Limited Prep H is the perfect migration spot for your ITC Rabbit. If you wanted to go full prep G with your car, expect to spend at least $5k tp $10k more on motor, tranny, suspension, brakes, fiberglass, etc.

[shwah]

I would also recommend the LP route in HP. You can spend as much or little as you want in the motor. Just because you are limited in head prep, and cam lift does not mean that there are not places to spend on a competitive LP car. Lightening/balancing/cusom cam grinds can all add up if you are after the absolute top level. However if you just want to get going in Nationals, as mentioned - high compression pistons and a correctly sized off the shelf cam will get you rolling.

If the time were ever available to make extra parts there would be some pretty cool carbon body kits coming out of central Illinois, but as we all know extra time is just not very easy to find. Rob Shertz and Chuck Mathis made all of the bodywork for the orange #54 GP car, and have the bucks and molds at Chuck's shop. Maybe some day...

[jlinfert]

Of course if you don't want to BUILD an HP car, my boss has an HP Scirroco for sale:http://prodracing.com/prodcar/viewtopic.php?t=7451. VERY FAST and has been on the podium at almost every National entered. BTW the price has been dropped to $15K with the Motons $11K with new Bilsteins.

[thedemoguy]

What is the value of a very well prepared 82 ITC Rabbit ?
The car has been a race car most of it's life, only has about 70000 miles on the body, all new suspension by Checked Motor Sports and a lot of spar's.

How much could I sell it for ?

Bill

[Knestis]

Unfortunately, not much right at this point. More than a few race cars have been parted out recently, rather than sold ready-to-run. They're worth more as bits.

K

[rabbidmk1]

Yeah that is a sad but true reality.. I sold my ITB rabbit last year on Ebay for $2500 and then discounted the car $300 for the buyer to pick the car up at my home instead of halfway accross the country!


Good luck on what ever you decide.

Aaron

[jlinfert]

What is the value of a very well prepared 82 ITC Rabbit ?
The car has been a race car most of it's life, only has about 70000 miles on the body, all new suspension by Checked Motor Sports and a lot of spar's.

How much could I sell it for ?

Bill
[/b]
A decent race car never seems to go for what we like... That said $2500 to $3500 depending upon how many spares you have.

[Bill Miller]

I'll add one more vote for l-p HP, but I'd also listen to the person that said wait and see what happens to GP and HP for next year (they both may be done, Nationally speaking). If you want to go Prod racing in a VW, why not just buy my l-p HP Rabbit?

[sciroccohp]

[
So back to the question, What would I have to do to make my ITC {1.6 engine, 4 speed} a competitive GP car. ?

I can look in the GCR for all the specs but is it worth it or would I be wasting time and money to run in the back of the pack, I don't like the back of the pack

How much would it cost ?

as far as the LP HP or the GP if you have to ask it is too much. We have a LP HP scirocco and a GP and coverting an ITC to a Nationally competitive production car (read compete in the runoffs in the front) I would say at least 20K dollars (very conservative) your much better off buying one that has been competitive and give yourself 2-4 years to make it competitive. I am not sure how much Don and my father have spent but I think I am being very very conservative and we have one of the fastest H VW's and we just started to develop the G car.

[shwah]

OK here is what I know that works.

Chuck runs the 1.5 with CIS type injection. We feel that the weight advantage is worth the small displacement penalty.

Getting to weight however is NOT easy. Orange 54 runs very light carbon fiber hood, fenders, quarters, hatch, air dam, splitter. Also all lexan, significantly lightened doors, and lots of attention to detail finding the lightest components for each and every area of the car - no stone is unturned. As an aside, I talked to Rob over the weekend, and he would be willing to make more fender sets for those interested - price $2k.

Make sure that the gearing is optimum for the track you are at that weekend - get creative if you need to (which you must if sticking with a VW trans).

The small valves and small throttle bodies present a challenge with this motor. The way to make power on a small motor is to spin it fast, and we do, but you must have top notch head work to make this work. Jose at www.porttuning.com did all of the headwork for Chuck's car, and I beleive offers a 1.5/1.6 GP VW head now. It is not an off the shelf delivery - there is some waiting involved. Even with all the nice parts in the world, you have to make them work right. This car has probably spent as much or more time on a dyno as on the track.

Take advantage of the allowances in the rules to get the suspension to work for you in an effort to get the suspension working right and making tire wear a non-issue.

There are 4 solid years of dedicated development in that car (along with on winter of reconstrutive surgury to the RF) to get it where it sits now. I definitely think that someone else can do this, but just want to warn you that it can be a long, slow, frustrating process.

Even at that, many beleive that the car only won due to weather, and they might be right. Hopefully, we can find out with good Topeka weather in October, or get an idea running against Ken Bs fast 510 at the June Sprints this month.

On the cost front - IMO a fully developed LP car is very close to the cost of a fully developed full prep GP car. You still have lots of motor machine work to do, still have lots of bodywork to do, still have lots of dyno development time to invest, still have lots of suspension development time to invest. The numbers quoted above are only possible if you can do damn near everything yourself, and even then are tight. Still, I think Chuck has invested a fraction of what some think you have to spend for a competitive Prod car simply because of the skillset that he and the team as a whole already have - machining, composites, electronics, engineering, fabrication. But then again we don't count our time when we add things up....

As it sits now, I was considering a jump to FP in my Golf down the road, simply because the Golf is not fairly classed as an LP GP. If it moved to LP HP I may reconsider. Due to the current state of Production in general, I will keep running in IT for the moment and see where the chips fall.

[racer_tim]

Don't forget the rest of the bottom end of a 1.6 full prep motor in GP. Dry sump to keep the oil going where it's supposed to be, when you spin it to 9,000 rpm, balanced, polished, and lighten'd crank, Carillo or Pauter rods, Cosworth or Weisco pistons, and lightweight clutch, etc.

And the custom control arms, etc.

[shwah]

Sorry - I thought custom internals was understood for EITHER full prep or limited prep. Light/balanced crank, light/strong rods, light/strong pistons, shim under bucket lifters, Ti retainers, etc. all are required to get what you need to complete.

Yes custom control arms are part of getting a suspension that works right. You need to take advantage of all of the allowances to do this (edit - this being compete at the front nationally), because the other guys do the same (well not the Suzuki, but that is just because the stock car can get to weight real easy, so he can run steel body and glass).