2nd gen brakes

[rsx858]

Well im not particularly happy with the brakes on my ITS rx7, hopefully you guys have some suggestions that could help me out. I run hawk blues and that blue racing brake fluid. My complaint isent with the pad but with the "feel" / "modulation" of the pedal. Seems real mush to me and you would think stainless lines would provide a nice firm feel. Iv heard that the second gen is not particulaly known for having good feel so i didnt think anything is wrong with my setup. The system is frequently bled properly, should i be looking into my master cylinder at all?

Also whats the story on brake bias adjusters. I frequently smoke my tires under hard braking (no lockup) what could this be a symptom of?

Thanks

Matt

[seckerich]

We have some of the most brutal tracks around for brakes and never have a problem with the second gen system. I assume you have the 4 piston fronts and the good rears? The Hawk pads have changed some over the years and have gotten a little more prone to locking. Is it the front or back that is grabbing? Run a bias valve in the rear brake line and try Blue fronts and Black rears if you still have problems. If the pedal is soft you might want to check both bleed screws on the rear calipers (yes there are 2) as they will trap air and make the whole system go soft. I use a pressure bleeder and the pedal is rock solid. Good Luck.

[benspeed]

Hi Matt - 2nd gen pedal should be good. I thought the brakes on my ITS car were outstanding for an essentially stock setup besides pads and lines. When bled right it was rock solid.

If anybody ever depressed the brake pedal without the calipers mounted-rotors on-you could have toasted the caliper seals. I did that once by accident sitting in the car while on stands. Just put my foot on the pedal without thinking - brakes were mush until I replaced the calipers.

Good luck to another Jersey racer!!!

[C. Ludwig]

There are two bleed screws on the rear calipers. Both need bled. I didn't realize this for the first two or three seasons I ran my old car. Thought there was only one bleeder on each caliper. Always had a poor pedal until someone pointed out the other bleeders to me. After that the pedal was consistently good.

[paulydee]

Just for a point of reference, when I first put the car together 5 years ago, I bought new Mazda rear calipers, rebuilt the fronts, new Mazda master cylinder, Hawk blue fronts, Black rears, Earl's lines and no bias adjuster. There was some adjustment needed on the pedal travel, but my brakes are rock hard and have never had issues since. The only time I lock up a tire is when I am on cold tires or drive like and idiot.

[tdw6974]

There are two bleed screws on the rear calipers. Both need bled. I didn't realize this for the first two or three seasons I ran my old car. Thought there was only one bleeder on each caliper. Always had a poor pedal until someone pointed out the other bleeders to me. After that the pedal was consistently good.
[/b]
Is there a sequence to bleed the rear calipers??? Just not having fun this year.

[Redshift]

I don't have my FSM at hand (but I can check it) but going from memory, the recommended order is right rear lower bleeder, right rear upper, left rear lower, then left rear upper (followed up right front and doing left front last.)

[ddewhurst]

From my humble experiences after the rear is bleed it becomes very difficult to TOTALLY bleed ALL the air out of the front because you can not get full brake pedal extension because the rear brake line is airless & the brake pedal will only travel approx half way to the floor. When bleeding the front either have a second person open the rear bleeder simo with the front or install a speed bleeder with flex tube in the rear line near the master cylinder, put the flex tube in the open master cylinder ^& crack the speed bleeder. Now bleed the front & you will get full pedal extension to the floor thereby getting ALL the air out of the front brakes.

[tdw6974]

From my humble experiences after the rear is bleed it becomes very difficult to TOTALLY bleed ALL the air out of the front because you can not get full brake pedal extension because the rear brake line is airless & the brake pedal will only travel approx half way to the floor. When bleeding the front either have a second person open the rear bleeder simo with the front or install a speed bleeder with flex tube in the rear line near the master cylinder, put the flex tube in the open master cylinder ^& crack the speed bleeder. Now bleed the front & you will get full pedal extension to the floor thereby getting ALL the air out of the front brakes.
Wow old posting but still relevant I hope> Dave or anyone else this still a valid procedure?? T Weaver

[C. Ludwig]

Get one of these and ditch the speed bleeders.

http://www.nexternal.com/motive/images/Universal_Bleeder_2.jpg

http://store.motiveproducts.com/round-universal-bleeder--0101-p60.aspx

[tdw6974]

Get one of these and ditch the speed bleeders.

http://www.nexternal.com/motive/images/Universal_Bleeder_2.jpg

http://store.motiveproducts.com/round-universal-bleeder--0101-p60.aspx
Chris, have one. Just got a RX-7 cap modified to use. Have to understand when I buy something that says "universal" I have the 1 out of 10,000 applications that they don't fit:rolleyes:. I told the driver just think you're in a Miata don't use the brakes:p. (That ought to get some one fired up) !:eclipsee_steering:

[tdw6974]

Well the Speed Bleeders arrived and are installed now it takes the same size wrench/socket for all adjusters :) Has to make things cleaner. Proceeded to bleed following the suggestions about only variation was we just let the fluid from rear bleeder end up in recyle instead of returning it to the master master clyinder. Bled the front ones and sure enough the pedal now went to the floor and got rid of several loads of air especially on the right front. Will get to test next weekend at the Glen. Might want to check for our studded sno tires never know about the weather on the Hill:D. Will be in Garage 2B doing pit assignments for Saturday's enduro. :eclipsee_steering:

[tdw6974]

Yea the brakes worked the power worked!! but the scales did not came in 7 lbs under weight.:o No cool suit and ran real low on fuel. Big change in results and we end up 3rd in class when 2 other ITS cars ahead of were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay under. I was amazed at the number of cars that had no clue what they weigh. 2 or 3 years ago it was proposed that the weight be applied to car I rushed out and spent $4.00 to get a set of decals done. I should have used a magic marker and X 2670 :D. Anyhow we got power and brakes. Headed to NJ next weekend for final race of season. TW:eclipsee_steering: