Just starting over

[RX MAD]

I am just now getting into the sport, I am looking at a list of cars to start with I would rather build my own, yes I have the ability and know how. just never drove this class of car but always wanted to, anyway I need to know hands down the three top economical, parts excessible, roller type carts i can lay my hands, it will propably come out of a salvage yard, i am not cutting up a $5000.00 car. so any advice would be greatly appreciated. I 44 years old and I need so advice thank you.

[Off Camber]

There are hundreds of answers and opinions to your question.
I think you need to narrow down the field a bit first.

Choose front wheel or rear wheel drive ??

Which class woould you prefer?? ITD thru ITR??

How Competative do you want to be??

What is your budget??

etc

Cheers SteveP

[RX MAD]

Rear Wheel Drive

IDT

Just starting out just drive time for now, without getting ran over

5,000.00 ballpark

[924Guy]

Hmmm... not that many RWD cars can be built so cheap, though I'd think that there's a few good options in ITB - don't know that ITC has much in that category... ITB, you've got anything from your basic Rustang right up through the fancy German exotics (BMW/Porsche)... I personally think the latter have more chance to grow with you and ultimately be podium-capable, but at the cost of much higher entry cost/complexity/parts cost.

Realistically, a good cage will cost you $2k. How much can you really do with the remaining $3k? At very least you'd best plan to refresh the engine, fresh shocks, brakes, and coilover springs, suspension bushings (considering you're starting from scratch with likely a 20-yr-old car). Might need to add some cooling capacity (not sure where you are), be it larger rad or oil cooler and plumbing.

I think initial build cost for my car was something like $6-8k... and current investment is approaching $15k... for an ITB car!

Gee, it's a good thing I have a racecar, or I'd just blow all my money on crack and hookers... (as has been previously noted by others on this forum) ;)

[dickita15]

If it is about racing, buy the first one build the second one
What part of the country are you in.
1st gen rx7s are cheap if you are in an area where they are competitive.

[its66]

I know you prefer to build, but building one on $5000 might be tough. You could however find an IT7/ITA RX7 for that price or less which would be basically ready to race. It would problaby also come with some spare wheels and assorted other goodies that the owner has likely gathered over time. They may not be the fastest car in ITA, but still a good car to get your feet wet with.

[Chris Wire]

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...topic=11305&hl= (http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11305&hl=)

CRXs are great cars for the class and very economical to race. Even if you go over your budget slightly on the build, the reliability and low cost of maintenance would help in the long run.

Welcome to IT!

[mattbatson]

Hmmmm,
5K to spend?
There was a 240 ITA car for sale on here at a steal for 5K, that was supposedly a podium car...

There was also a first gen MR2 ITA car for sale for about half of what you willing to spend....not a podium car...but did I mention nearly HALF of what your looking to spend?

Anyways,
As someone who has built their own car...and then seen these great deals in the classifieds...and then looked at the receipts for my own car and lost count at about 8K....

I....hope you...get my point :D

[RX MAD]

I am in Oklahoma. Hallett MotorSpeedway

[mbuskuhl]

Buy your first car. Take this from someone who just built rather than bought his first car. I wanted and thought I would spend only $5k after buying a project someone else started for $3k. I stopped adding up receipts after $20k and that was only a month into things. Doing some stuff 2-3 times and wanting perfection has probably set me back $35k + on an ITS 2nd Gen RX7 car in the last 6 months. Damn, I sure wish I would have spent only half that and bought one done <_<

[tom_sprecher]

Whatever you do, don&#39;t do anything stupid like buy your first car, promptly total it and build the second one out of the ashes. You do get the opportunity to do it both ways but Christ what a PITA. :blink:

For $5k go with the ITA RX7. Ready to race (according to the owners) units are $5k and less. An example. (http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11289&hl=) Maybe not ready to race but well within your price range.

Also, take it from me, whores and blow are cheaper but impossible to get spousal approval on unless she&#39;s into that kinda thing. ;) :o

[lateapex911]

If you want RWD, and want some money left over to get safety gear, and maybe some tires, the RX-7 is a tough to beat combo. Engines last if treated well, and are darn hard to overrev. And they are pretty pletiful with tremendous aftermarket support. Not to mention parts from mazdaspeed below dealer cost...

And in the SE, the IT7 class is very active with big fields. I just watched a car I raced against go up on ebay and remain unsold at $2200, with lots of rains and spares. Seemed like a great deal to me. Ben Ahberg avertised it here as well...it needs doorbars on the pass side I think but other than that i think it&#39;s good to go.
.

RWD in ITC? Ummm..Dastun 510?
RWD in ITB??? Hmmm..Porsche 914 and the Volvos, and Alfas.

I would caution against building...it&#39;s a slippery slope, esp on that budget.

[Bill Miller]

I have to echo what most have already said. If you&#39;re working on a $5k budget, don&#39;t even think about starting from scratch. You will burn through $5k so fast it will make your head spin. Not to mention the time involved. It&#39;s already May, and if you&#39;re doing it yourself (assuming that you have a job/family/life), you will be lucky to get the car on the track this year. There are plenty of acceptable cars out there that can be had for between $3k and $5k.

As Jake and others have pointed out, if you want RWD, it&#39;s hard to beat a 1st gen RX7 for price/availability/parts/knowledge. If you can deal w/ FWD, the market opens up that much more.

[gran racing]

Build vs. Buy

There&#39;s a reason I took the Neon my friend and I bought to the Glen this past weekend for the HPDE vs. the car I&#39;m building. We bought the car, changed fluids and a few other things - then off to the track we go. :D

One of my friends is looking to sell his ITA RX7. As others have stated, it&#39;ll never be a front runner in ITA but the car is well built and comes with a ton of extra parts (engine, suspension stuff, and everything else someone could possible thing of). This car would fit below the $5K you&#39;re taking about, be ready to go on the track the day you got it, and you&#39;d already have loads of spares. He hasn&#39;t posted it anywhere for sale and will sounds like will be just advertising it via word of mouth. He&#39;s located in central CT. I realize it&#39;s a not very local to you, but it just would be worth the trip.

The car I&#39;m talking about is Grant McStay&#39;s ITA RX7. Others can chime in on this car too. He&#39;s selling the car so he can swap paint with me in ITB.

[NutDriverRighty]

I&#39;ll have to make sure with my brother, but I think that we&#39;re about ready to sell our IT7/ITA Rx7. It&#39;s got a freshly rebuilt (by Dale Caldwell of Sunbelt, through OPM) engine, carb, ignition system, etc. It&#39;s got Toyo RA1s (the IT7 spec tire in the SEdiv at the moment) mounted on Panasports, an extra pair of panasports with Hoosiers on them, and a set of steel wheels with Hoosier Dirt Stockers (rains). We have a spare car, complete with interior, engine, tranny, seats, dash, etc. The car has had it&#39;s 07 annual, has a new seat, brand new belts, and updated door bars. For pics, check "91 car" on Nutdriver dot org. My brother just put an AFM in the car, but I&#39;m not sure if he&#39;ll let that go with the car. If you&#39;re interested, PM me. I&#39;ll talk to my brother (Captain Who on this forum) and see what he says.

[kgobey]

I am in the boat where I am restarting my racing after 7 years out...

My preference right now is SpecE30 or Spec Focus which are both NASA classes.

Very inexpensive to enter these classes.

[Knestis]

Everyone is SO nice here. I&#39;m having one of those days so I&#39;ll be "that guy."

You just CANNOT do what you claim to want to do, for the money you claim to want to spend. Sorry - someone needs to say it.

And please don&#39;t buy into the stories about building a $5000 spec [whatever]. You could build an e30 with required safety equipment, suspension, original paint, a pretty good replenishment of worn-out parts, and reasonably healthy junkyard drivetrain - if you do all the work yourself.

For some reason, those guys who tell you you can build a [whatever] for $X always seem to want $2X when it comes time for them to sell theirs...

...until they finally to the point where they take $.5X, which is where they should have been from the outset.

Based on what you&#39;ve given us, you have just a couple of choices, most of which have been described:

Toyota MR2
1st-gen RX7

I&#39;d add the Toyota Corolla GTS


RWD in ITB??? Hmmm..Porsche 914 and the Volvos, and Alfas.[/b]
You are a bad, bad man, Jake for even putting any of those choices in writing. You want our new friend to still be around in 2 years, right? :)

K

[lateapex911]

Yea, you&#39;re right kirk...I guess I thought it obvious that getting into ANY of those was an slippery slope into the money pit.

Kirks right, like anything...building a house, or building a deck, only the most knowledgable can actually design a project and have it finish on time and on budget. You know how they do it? They plan right up front that it will cost twice as much and take twice as long as everyone thinks it will.

I built my RX-7...and i know that if i were to do it again, I&#39;d buy. It&#39;s far easier to finish some one elses project, or buy a completed car that is getting sold for pennies on the dollar.

[lateapex911]

here&#39;s an ad for a seemingly well built car WITH a trailer....
http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...=0&#entry111942 (http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11327&st=0&#entry111942)

And the McStay car mentioned above is a stout peice with excelllent attention to detail.

[RX MAD]

Ok I have built and raced a lot of Stock cars, but the road race has always appealed to me, first thank you for all the advice, I have a question what are the pro&#39;s and con&#39;s when it come to Fwd versus Rwd I know how this would affect a dirt track car but I wonder if the same holds true for asphalt.

[Knestis]

Some people prefer one, some the other, but at the end of the day with the low-powered cars we race, it doesn&#39;t make much difference. ITC, ITB, or ITA give you way more choices among FWD cars, and most are newer than RWD options, making parts easier to source.

K

[RSTPerformance]

after many years of this debating I have finally decided for a newbie from outside the SCCA/Racing family buy a car and get out thier... Build the second car!!! To many people start to build a car and never get finished or get on the track. You wont win the first couple years, so you might as well have fun and not worry about the stresses of building your own car. When you decide you want to win, then figure out what you want to build, what class you want to invest in and then build.

I think that the MR2 or ITA RX7 is the best long term investment for what you have laid down as requirements (low cost RWD). Plenty of knowledge and parts, and eventually (who knows when) I think they will end up being moved to ITB and be front runners :) I have no true inside info but my gut says that eventually this will happen, its just a matter of how long we (The ITB guys) will make them resist the move :unsure:

Raymond

[Knestis]

...its just a matter of how long we (The ITB guys) will make them resist the move :unsure: [/b]
That shouldn&#39;t have ANY bearing on the issue - and the fact that it even gets suggested is irritating. This is precisely the kind of crap the current process is supposed to avoid. Find a workaround for the cage tubing issue and get them moved to B where they belong.

Kirk (aka "an ITB guy")

[JamesB]

I agree on the mr2, Not sure about the 7 though.

[lateapex911]

The B guys always get nervous when the subject comes up, LOL. I don&#39;t see the 7 going to B anytime soon....it&#39;s a tweener by the numbers, and there isn&#39;t a consensus on a direction to go regarding the cage issue, the wheels and so on.

[dickita15]

Find a workaround for the cage tubing issue and get them moved to B where they belong.

Kirk (aka "an ITB guy")
[/b]
The answer is easy. Dual classification. Class tweeners in both classes at different weights. My research shows that fully half the Rx7s built (based on a survey of 50 cars) have cages stout enough to be legal at the ITB weight.
I sent in a request at the urging of a couple of CRB members but it never made it past the ITAC.
No Rx7 in Narrc is within 5 seconds of the pole.

[mbuskuhl]

RX MAD - This one just went up for sale in your price range and not too far from you in TX. I know nothing about it, sorry. Maybe you are interested. It would be nice to have another ITS racer in the SOWDIV!

http://dallas.craigslist.org/car/324040923.html

[x-ring]

RWD, ITB, cheap. Wasn&#39;t someone here going to do a Fiero?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-pontia...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-pontiac-fiero-ITB-SCCA-race-car-race-ready_W0QQitemZ140113262263QQihZ004QQcategoryZ9806 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

It might be fun to drive. Finding race parts might be a challange, though.

[shwah]

fwd vs rwd. My personal opinion is that at the lower power levels that we play with in A, B and C fwd has an advantage. You just get a better drive out of the corner, and with the sprint format of most of our events, burning up those busy front tires is not a real issue.

Bringing &#39;tweener&#39; A cars down to B... I personaly don&#39;t know of any ITB driver that has an issue with cars being fairly added to our class. As far as I am concerned class any damn car you like with us. More cars makes for more fun in racing. I have faith in our ITAC and the classing process to get them close enough to right so that we can all race together. However, don&#39;t dual classify. A car either fits one performance envelope or the other, and just because no one is building a particular car competitively is not justification to move it down.

We all say to buy first. It really depends on the individual. I built my car, and I am glad I did. However, I did delay my first racing start by YEARS doing so. The engineering and build is as much fun for me as the racing (or at least that is what I thought back then...now I know better :eclipsee_steering: ). For someone that is really interested in the driving, go buy and get on the track.

[RSTPerformance]

That shouldn&#39;t have ANY bearing on the issue - and the fact that it even gets suggested is irritating. This is precisely the kind of crap the current process is supposed to avoid. Find a workaround for the cage tubing issue and get them moved to B where they belong.

Kirk (aka "an ITB guy")
[/b]


Sorry to irritate you Kirk... The comment was somewhat sarcastic (but probably realistic looking out 5-10 years). I do think that they are a good investment. They are fun to drive, cheep, reliable and plenty of parts and knowledge around.

Raymond "Sorry again" Blethen

[msogren]

The ITB Golf can be bought for 4- 6k,pretty ready to run. the A1, Rabbits are usually cheaper , but not as fast. The build cost is about 9-20k if the right parts are used. Look for a Quaife, posi diff or welded, with a 3.9 gear for 98% of the tracks. Welded is the fastest , the quaife is the easyist to drive.
You can rent mine for$ 800 race weekend and/or test it first, for a 6k sale. We are running it next week at a very fast autocross . We bet 50$on fastest time, three drivers. This car was built 6 yrs ago and has about 10k in parts run thru it , motor 2k, trans2k, quaife, gear, clutch, header $450. etc . It adds up fast.
I have built and supported the Vovlos and MR2. The Vovlo is real fast when not broke. The MR2 has poor brakes and is not faste enough to be fun in ITA, hense the cheap price of those. And they suck to work on, but F-Atlantic ran those engines, with some $ you can go fast , but not legal.
The first race car should have plenty of parts for cheap. Most of the Golf parts , axles, rotors, bearing etc can be bought from any of the parts houses, easy and fast.
The ITB cars are easy on fuel and tires , yet fast enoug to be fun . Most places, the ITB will always have a race. It cost about the same to build any of these cars, other than restoring them first. Add about 8k for old car racing or Porsche stuff. The Vw is by far the cheapest car to race, other than old SSC cars, The Neon is not too bad for the cash. The RX 7 is very good also. carry a spare trans.
Usually , if you build your first race car, you are slow into turn one because you have too much $ and work in it. One year and 15k is about the bill.
The race car is just a tool to build your ego. If you cant crash it emotionally, than you will be very slow.. IMHO. Mike Ogren , FL.

[ddewhurst]

RX MAX, I have almost everything you would need to build a 1982 1st gen Mazda RX-7 to run in ITA/IT7. Depending on where you live in Oklahoma there are a bunch of ITA/7 cars that run in Kansas & Missouri.

I had the car shipped to Wisconsin from Oregon & it is 100% rust FREE. Stripped & ready for a roll cage.

I tosted my previous 1st gen RX-7 while racing at Blackhawk Farm in IL.

What&#39;s missing list:

A. Roll cage

B. Front sway bar alum arms (speedway engineering)

C. Alum water radiator

D. Earlier 1st gen alum oil cooler

E. Seat belts

F. Fire extingusher

G. third member/pumpkin

What&#39;s there:

a. Strong 85,000 mile motor

b. MSD Blaster coils

c. Paul Yaw blueprinted carb

d. ISC racing suspension front I rear with G-Force Tri link

e. ICS header, to a 3 inch over the axle pipe to a DynaFlow muffler at 98/100 db

e. 5 Panasport 9# wheels

f. I&#39;ll finish the list if you have interest.

Extras:

1. one hood

2. 4 front fenders

3. 4 doors

4. 1 front valance/grill

5. Starter

6. A couple transmissions

7 4 large rear axles

8. An extra large axle banjo

6. A bunch more & if you have an interest I will complete the list.

I have $1,700 in the chassis as it sits & I&#39;ll sell all the NEW stuff at HALF the price I paid. Example 1 Panasport wheel at $190.00 for $95.00 no damage wheel. all the used stuff we&#39;ll talk a deal.

Let me know of your interest ;)

David Dewhurst

pm or 1-414-453-0929

[RX MAD]

Thank you guys for all your help, I just bought a ITB Mustang, i appreciate the imput, one of the reason&#39;s i wanted to get into this was the people, generally they are the best help and friendly too. I know it will be a long time before I get there but I have ARRIVED!

[keycom]

Did you buy #14?

[RX MAD]

YES I did

[Off Camber]

Congratulations.
I think you made a wise choice to buy and go have some fun. You can always spend more money on upgrades and you will. :D

Now go drive :eclipsee_steering: