Race starts

[Ron]

Just to make sure, if you start in the back and you have someone with a radio tell you when the green flys, you can pass before the start/finish line. There has not been a rules change, right?

[keycom]

Right, racing starts when the green drops, don't hafta wait for the line.

[tom_sprecher]

2007 GCR page 50 item G basically states the race starts the instant the green is waved.

[Andy Bettencourt]

BUT: If you are at a track that show local yellows at the corners leading up to the S/F, you really can't go until those flags drop (should you be in their area). They should all fly/drop at the same time but sometimes it doesn't happen when radio communications fail.

[RSTPerformance]

If you don't have radio's and you are way way back you can look for the double yellows to drop, once the track is no longer under a "yellow flag" condition you are green :) (Unless someone makes a mistake).

Raymond

[joeg]

Ray is correct!

An old trick used at the Glen before they moved the start finish line and you had a huge group--wait for the yellows to be pulled in!

Most tracks, however its wait for the green and GO.

[Ron]

I guess at Roebling there were some race officials that were telling my crew ( I was back in Atlanta coaching soccer) that there was no passing until the start finish line. Maybe they thought they were at a Rolex race, hell I don't know but you feel kind of helpless when you get conflicting reports. Just for the record, my dad was driving and passed at least 5 cars before the start finish line.

[lateapex911]

And thank God thats the way it is...I hope they NEVER change that rule. Not sure why they do it that way in GA...

[Ken Grammer]

Many series use the "no passing until the start/finish line". The reason is simple. They let the electronic T&S system tell them if someone jumped the start. Plus there is the feeling among some series that it makes for a safer start when you have big fields.

And if you go drive with other series, you need to understand that there is no such thing as "standardized" rules for handling things like dropping the yellows when you go green. For example, a couple of series actually drop the yellows about half way through the pace lap. Star Mazda being one that comes immediately to mind.

Was the Roebling Road event an SCCA sanctioned race? If so, I'm rather confused about the official's comments to your crew... unless of course he races a LOT with another series or that "rule" was addressed in the event supps.

Interesting...

[Knestis]

It pays to know the rule so you can politely point out errors like that - not that it's easy to remember them all, when you don't know how they might get messed up.

I got a talking-to from the steward at my school three years ago (also at RR, if that means anything) for passing the pace car right past S/F during a practice session - when it was covered by a waving white flag.

(Go back and read that last bit again if you missed the significance.) :)

I was able to make my case, basesd on my not knowing if it was actually intended to be a waving yellow or a stationary white...

K

[RSTPerformance]

Ken posting made me think of something... No passing till the start line would help prevent a lot of people from "racing" into turn 1 (maybe)? This would be good if it succeded in doing this for longer events such as Enduro's where the race absolutely is not won on the first lap... but as others mentioned I also hope that rule never changes for sprint races.


Raymond

[Eric Parham]

Why don't we just say "no passing until the finish line" to "help prevent a lot of people from 'racing' "? :bash_1_:



No passing till the start line would help prevent a lot of people from "racing" into turn 1 (maybe)?
[/b]

[Ken Grammer]

Just to make sure my point is clear... USERA rules say that racing starts when the green flag is displayed! :)

I'm not a big fan of the "no passing until the S/F line" rule. I think it can cause more trouble, and has the potential to be far more dangerous. Consider what happens when someone misses a shift at the start!

CART and AGT have tried modified versions that say you can't pass the car in your line (for double row starts)... but that is really unfair because then one missed shift can cause several cars to get passed. :(

Starting starts is really the way to go! :happy204:

[lateapex911]

Starting starts is really the way to go! :happy204: [/b]

NOW you're talkin!

[bldn10]

"And if you go drive with other series, you need to understand that there is no such thing as "standardized" rules for handling things like dropping the yellows when you go green. For example, a couple of series actually drop the yellows about half way through the pace lap. Star Mazda being one that comes immediately to mind."



I would hope that there are 2 standardized ways of handling it depending on when racing begins. I.e. for series in which racing does not start until start/finish, it makes perfect sense to drop the yellows long before the start - that way no one should think that the race has begun just because the yellows have been dropped. In series like SCCA in which the race starts when the green is displayed, the "rule" should be that the yellows drop when the green waves so that cars out of view of S/F know when the race has started. Otherwise, drivers w/ radios would have a distinct advantage. I learned this many years ago at an ARRC enduro in which there were 80+ cars. I missed the dry Q session and was in the back and coming up the hill from the dip when a few cars behind me took off and passed several rows before cresting the hill. My first thought was, "What the hell?!?" Later I realized that they were watching the flag station under the bridge, and floored it when they saw the yellow drop.

[Knestis]

Any artificial constraint on "when the racing can begin" are just cause for confusion and issues.

I thought standing starts would be cool, having watched them in the good old days of pro Formula Atlantic in the '80s, but was really disappointed after I did a couple with NASA. The biggest irritant is that you arrive at Turn 1 going so much slower than is typical. I know that "races aren't won" there but it's always been my favorite part of a race.

K

[zracre]

Then all someone needs to do is lay back on the start so the competition is bunched up once you pass the s/f line...Grand Am has the rule and i have seen it done. you have to time your pass by passing them at the line..no giant runs thru the fileld at daytona on restarts ;)

[bhudson]

I guess at Roebling there were some race officials that were telling my crew ( I was back in Atlanta coaching soccer) that there was no passing until the start finish line. Maybe they thought they were at a Rolex race, hell I don't know but you feel kind of helpless when you get conflicting reports. Just for the record, my dad was driving and passed at least 5 cars before the start finish line.
[/b]

I was an Operating Steward last weekend at Roebling - the subject never came up among us, so I don't which official made that statement. It would be helpful to know so we can clarify that with said official.

Bob Hudson
Atlanta Region

[Ron]

I was back in Atlanta and my father was racing. I don't know who said it or if worked its way around like the old telephone game where you start at one end of the class with a statement and by the time it passes through 20 1st graders it is completly different. I was in no way trying to say that the perfectly run weekend at Roebling was confusing to our team. THis has always been a smoothly run weekend even up to the point of opening up registration in the early afternoon, which was totally awsome!. We were done with Friday testing and registered by 4:00 pm and I was gome in Atlanta by 8:00pm.
So I am clear it was a great weekend, our new car did well, and the SCCA support and race crew did a wonderful job keeping the racing going. There was a question asked before the Sunday race about starting and it was our fault for not finding the right person to awnser the starting question.

Ron Sattele

[charrbq]

Since I have a slow little ITC car, I usually nail the gas as soon as I can. No one notices as there's not that much noise or acceleration, but it does help. I've tried the running start from way back there...gotten away with it once, passed seven cars by turn one. Tried it again several years later, got busted, had to let off, get back in line, and got passed by the remainder of the field when the green dropped. However, if I had to wait until the start finish from way back there before I could pass anyone, then I might as well not even try. That's part of the strategy of the race.