Electric Road Race Cars?

[Eric Parham]

Well, I've been thinking about this on and off for a few years. There's already a place to drag race electric cars : http://www.nedra.com/ Battery tech is gradually increasing range, and almost any conversion or purpose-built vehicle can make it 50 miles on a charge these days. Seems like it might be just enough for a day of road racing! In addition, there are standardized 200V chargers that can recharge battery packs to 80% in just 10 minutes. The so-called fuel cell vehicles (hydrogen, etc.) are just glorified batteries that still drive an electric motor. So, what I'm talking about here is one or more electric motors actually propelling the car regardless of whether the batteries are 20 deep-cycle marine cells or anything else. Is there currently any place to race them?

[Greg Amy]

Is there currently any place to race them?[/b]
No pun intended...? ;)

How about a TDi/greasel-powered Scirocco in the Nelson 24 first...?

[Knestis]

What Greg said. We've been batting alt fuel racing ideas around as long as I've been working with Cameron. I think it would be very cool and the Longest Day organizers are trying hard to be out front on this kind of initiative.

K

[Eric Parham]

Yea, that would be cool. It would also have the added benefit of subconsciously enticing the competition to pit more often for fast food breaks ;)

It's not quite the same, though. Electric is the only one that has the potential not to contribute to global warming. Right now, my conscience is conflicted with my love of the sport.

nmjh bbb n mmmmmmmm (<= that&#39;s my 1.5yo daughter&#39;s input :) )

[Greg Amy]

Electric is the only one that has the potential not to contribute to global warming.[/b]

Uh, you plannin&#39; on fartin&#39; the electricity that gets put into those batteries...?

[Eric Parham]

You mean that wouldn&#39;t work? Darn it! How about if I run it through a turbo?

I&#39;ll take your point to be that most electricity still comes from the burning of fossil fuels, which all produce greenhouse gases and hence global warming.

Consider this:

1) Production of electricity does not require the burning of fossil fuels. Hydro, wind, solar, nuke, etc. do not release greenhouse gases at all.

2) The quantity of greenhouse gases released by an electric power plant that does burn fossil fuels is much less per unit of energy released than for an internal combustion engine (I&#39;ve read about 1/5th for the same distance traveled by the end-user&#39;s car).

[lateapex911]

But Greg, you&#39;re misssing a few things there. Those farts? Well, they come from food, right? And those feilds that grow the plants that feed the cattle, or grow the corn that we eat get prepared with big tractors...running, (with unregulated emissions-wise engines I think), on gas or diesel, then they get seeded, tended, and harvested with the same gear. And then the crop gets processed, (With devices powered by electricity made by burning coal, perhaps), then transported to other plants by over the road trucks, (consuming fuel) and even some (cool!) railroads. Then theres packaging, (more electricity) and then more transporting to a store near us, where we go burning gas the whole way to purchase the crop/steak, etc, and finally, we cook it, using our ovens (which are most likely the greatest electricty consumer in the house) and then eat it.

NOW, you may fart into your battery sir.

LOL.

Point is that the entire picture is rather complex. I read about the "energy accounting" associated with the whole ethanol (E85) thing, and it was far from pretty. And sad that our efficiency is actually worse running E85. Especially since the proponents claim that the whole point is to reduce foreigh oil needs and put our money into our farms. Those goals aren&#39;t exactly happening in the win win manner we&#39;d all like to think they are...

[Eric Parham]

That E85 deal is due to the low efficiency production of ethanol from corn (best US crop, apparently??). In Brazil, for example, they use sugar cane, which has a much higher efficiency for producing ethanol.

EDIT: The math actually does work out for the full electric cars. See http://www.electroauto.com/info/pollmyth.shtml

[zracre]

found this...electric car racing SCCA in IT at Moroso Motorsports Park...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RXJWNzFR_QQ

[Eric Parham]

Thanks :) That led to http://www.proev.com/ , which is lots of good info about an electric converted Subie running well in SPU. Very cool!

EDIT: Looks like they&#39;re at Roebling Road this weekend.

[jhooten]

2) The quantity of greenhouse gases released by an electric power plant that does burn fossil fuels is much less per unit of energy released than for an internal combustion engine (I&#39;ve read about 1/5th for the same distance traveled by the end-user&#39;s car).
[/b]


Perhaps in the production, BUT by the time you factor in transmission losses ( a lot of electricity is wasted heating up wires, shunted to ground by trees and what not touching the lines, lost in transformers, and all kinds of other factors) you are lucky to break even.

[Eric Parham]

True, but I think the above ratio neglects all such processing and distribution losses for the gas (that is, the greenhouse gasses from the gallon of gas are just for that gallon of gas AFTER it makes it to the vehicle&#39;s combustion chamber), but I think it may already include such losses for the electric side since that&#39;s so clearly where the losses are (that is, before it gets to the car). Any data readily available to show those electric distribution losses?

[charrbq]

As the proud recipient of a cow&#39;s heart valve and a lover of steak cooked in any fashion, I look at cow farts as being another example of why these animals should be worshiped. B)

However, E85 is only the beginning of interest, not the answer. Whereas it&#39;s true that Brazil runs on cane juice, they haven&#39;t got the number or the type vehicles found in the U.S.A. Their vehicular population consists more of the type cars we race, not the ones we use to tow our race cars.

My family consists of mostly farmers in Texas, and I&#39;m surrounded by cane fields in Louisiana. All concerned would love to see us go to an all alcohol energy system rather than fossil fuel. Trust me, the days of everyone in Texas owning an oil well died long before someone shot J.R. But studies show that if we went to that type of system, the American farmer could never keep up with the demand, and we&#39;d be importing alcohol from other countries.

But, as mentioned before, there are numerous ways of producing electricity other than by raising cane. :rolleyes: It&#39;s not a new concept by any means, but one that hasn&#39;t been utilized. Trust me, the Exxon/Mobil or BP can figure out how to get their mits fully in control of the electric production for the populace, it will happen over night and the Middle East will become a greasy sand trap on the nineteeth hole.

I do wonder about the video of a 340hp car taking so long to catch and pass a couple of ITC cars. Not the best promo for such a device. My ITC car would be lucky to be pushing 90 ponies.

One thing&#39;s for certain, pit stops would change. No more "gas and go" or timed fuel stops to top off the tank. :happy204:

[Eric Parham]

I do wonder about the video of a 340hp car taking so long to catch and pass a couple of ITC cars. Not the best promo for such a device. My ITC car would be lucky to be pushing 90 ponies.

One thing&#39;s for certain, pit stops would change. No more "gas and go" or timed fuel stops to top off the tank. :happy204:
[/b]

Yea, but it&#39;s a heavy 4wd car, now with 2 motors and 600 lbs of batteries. On their website they only claim 270 bhp, and I think that&#39;s running 700 Amps battery current. Looks like they&#39;ve been doing mostly autocross until this year, with an occasional RR. I don&#39;t think they were ever able to run more than 400 Amps in qualifying or 300 Amps during a race, due both to battery output limitations and overheating. They&#39;ve made some recent improvements, so that may change. Looks like great fun to me, though :) The only downside is that when I priced out the batteries, those alone cost more than most IT cars. Hopefully the prices will come down as more hit the market.

[Greg Amy]

Sooo....you ready to run the 24-hour in that electric car...?

Just kiddin&#39;. I&#39;ve got reasonably positive personal opinions - both technical and otherwise - in regards to electrics, hybrids, and such, but when it comes down to brass tacks electric is not practical for anything but local, urban, short commutive driving.

Long term, who knows, but until someone can use an electric car pretty much exactly as they can now - in terms of convenience, power, speed, usefulness - electric will continue to be a niche market.

[TurboCGT]

http://www.nhis.com/news12.html

Thought that was pretty interesting... Hybrid could be interesting... 15 percent less fuel consumption could be good for enduros.