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mattbatson
04-04-2007, 11:45 PM
At this point, I'm really most interested in racing with larger run groups.
I am 99% certain that I will run the Jim Stark...but am kinda thinking that the VIR race would be better...

Doesnt this VIR event get a huge turnout of IT cars?
I have heard that perhaps the fields will not be so large this year....

Anyone know anything about this?

Will the IT turnout at VIR be that much larger, traditionally, then the Jim Stark?
Will there be a sea of ITB cars on the grid?

JeffYoung
04-05-2007, 07:49 AM
Both usually get very large turnouts. Jim Stark draws a lot of guys from Florida.

CHeck in the sign in page - almost 100 cars registered already, and I think 6 ITB cars already.

SARRC/MARRS is usually larege just because it draws all the DC guys out of their lair at Summit. However, it was smaller last yera than usual because people were frustrated with the three day format. This has been changed, now two days. Hopefully this will bring back the 400+ car counts we used to get. I had a 60 car s/A/7 run group one time at SARRC/MARRS.

chuck baader
04-05-2007, 08:03 AM
OK, Jeff, where (link) is the sign up list? Thanks, Chuck

JeffYoung
04-05-2007, 08:06 AM
www.dlbracing.com

Bucanneer finally has online registration!

Chuck, good group of A cars already too. 8 or 9 I think.

9 Neil Radloff Red 1996 Mazda Miata
Sponsored by: Jeld-wen windows and Doors
18 John Kish red/black/gray 1989 NISSAN 240SX
57 Neal Norton yellow 1991 mazda miata
58 Briar Johnson Black 1996 Nissan 200SX
75 Willie Phee Silver/Blue 98 1998 Acura Integra
Sponsored by: Acura Carland, PACT, AYES, Mobil 1, Studio 540, Sparco, WRPMotorsports
92 Darryl Pritchett White 1995 Dodge Neon
Sponsored by: Matco Tools
02 Steven Lawrence green 1994 mazada miata
Sponsored by: iscr
06 Thomas Lyman Blue 1992 Acura Integra
Sponsored by: HomeLife Communities
09 Peter Brunton Red 1996 Mazda Miata


ITB 6 drivers Class List
2 Paul Mccormick White 1986 VW Golf
Sponsored by: Cato Steel
4 Jim Wray Yellow 1984 VW Rabbit
Sponsored by: Wrabbit Wraycing
18 Shane Lovely Black 1998 Honda Civic DX
22 Mike Mccormick White 1989 VW Golf
Sponsored by: Cato Steel
52 Lette O'sheill White 1986 Honda CRX Si
70 Ralph Thorne Iii White 1977 BMW 320i


ITC 3 drivers Class List
38 Vesa Silegren Red 1987 Honda CRX
Sponsored by: www.svtek.com
43 Gary Jr Bennett Red 1991 Honda Civic HB
Sponsored by: Diamond Home Builders, LLC
04 Steve Kenny yellow/white 1980 honda civic


ITE 1 driver Class List
05 Rob Bodle White 1995 Ford Cobra R
Sponsored by: Mustang Enthusiast/Pepsi/Car Guys Photo


ITS 6 drivers Class List
42 Kyle Vensel Red 1987 Mazda RX-7
44 Jeff Young Green 1980 Triumph TR8
Sponsored by: Moore & Van Allen PLLC
59 Cliff Ira Grn/Wht 1995 Acura Integra GSR
61 Dave Raymon Black/yellow 1999 Honda Civic
Sponsored by: Rejman Corp.
77 Mike Lacombe YELLOW 1989 MAZDA RX-7
08 David Plott yellow 1973 Datsun 240Z

Ron Earp
04-05-2007, 08:57 AM
www.dlbracing.com

Bucanneer finally has online registration!
[/b]

Damn that is awesome. I hope NC follows suit on that, it works seemlessly.

R

BlueStreak
04-05-2007, 05:09 PM
I'd like to run this, but isn't this Mother's Day weekend? :bash_1_:

JeffYoung
04-05-2007, 05:32 PM
Fo shizzle.

JamesB
04-06-2007, 10:27 AM
As said by mr. Yip "For mothers day I give the greatest present....I leave town"

Being unmarried and partents living a few states away, it doesn't matter if I go.

BlueStreak
04-06-2007, 02:24 PM
If I go:

my three kids: "Mommy, why isn't Daddy here for Mother's Day?"

Mommy: "Get used to it kids, you are never going to see him again"


:lol:


I'll miss this race because I like sleeping in a warm bed as opposed to the cold concrete garage floor.... ;)

Those of you that get to go, I hope you have a great time :smilie_pokal:

mattbatson
04-06-2007, 03:57 PM
woohoo, 8 ITB cars!

mlytle
04-06-2007, 11:31 PM
www.dlbracing.com

Bucanneer finally has online registration!

Chuck, good group of A cars already too. 8 or 9 I think.

9 Neil Radloff Red 1996 Mazda Miata
Sponsored by: Jeld-wen windows and Doors
18 John Kish red/black/gray 1989 NISSAN 240SX
57 Neal Norton yellow 1991 mazda miata
58 Briar Johnson Black 1996 Nissan 200SX
75 Willie Phee Silver/Blue 98 1998 Acura Integra
Sponsored by: Acura Carland, PACT, AYES, Mobil 1, Studio 540, Sparco, WRPMotorsports
92 Darryl Pritchett White 1995 Dodge Neon
Sponsored by: Matco Tools
02 Steven Lawrence green 1994 mazada miata
Sponsored by: iscr
06 Thomas Lyman Blue 1992 Acura Integra
Sponsored by: HomeLife Communities
09 Peter Brunton Red 1996 Mazda Miata
ITB 6 drivers Class List
2 Paul Mccormick White 1986 VW Golf
Sponsored by: Cato Steel
4 Jim Wray Yellow 1984 VW Rabbit
Sponsored by: Wrabbit Wraycing
18 Shane Lovely Black 1998 Honda Civic DX
22 Mike Mccormick White 1989 VW Golf
Sponsored by: Cato Steel
52 Lette O'sheill White 1986 Honda CRX Si
70 Ralph Thorne Iii White 1977 BMW 320i
ITC 3 drivers Class List
38 Vesa Silegren Red 1987 Honda CRX
Sponsored by: www.svtek.com
43 Gary Jr Bennett Red 1991 Honda Civic HB
Sponsored by: Diamond Home Builders, LLC
04 Steve Kenny yellow/white 1980 honda civic
ITE 1 driver Class List
05 Rob Bodle White 1995 Ford Cobra R
Sponsored by: Mustang Enthusiast/Pepsi/Car Guys Photo
ITS 6 drivers Class List
42 Kyle Vensel Red 1987 Mazda RX-7
44 Jeff Young Green 1980 Triumph TR8
Sponsored by: Moore & Van Allen PLLC
59 Cliff Ira Grn/Wht 1995 Acura Integra GSR
61 Dave Raymon Black/yellow 1999 Honda Civic
Sponsored by: Rejman Corp.
77 Mike Lacombe YELLOW 1989 MAZDA RX-7
08 David Plott yellow 1973 Datsun 240Z
[/b]
nobody racing itr?

Knestis
04-07-2007, 08:22 AM
woohoo, 8 ITB cars!
[/b]

Should be at least one more if I can work out the move/house sale/house purchase/new job thing. Feeling confident because I REALLY want to do that race.

K

mattbatson
04-07-2007, 05:32 PM
Hope you make it.
Would be great to finally meet ya, and put a face with your posts on here....

I raced that track once about 8 yrs ago on a motorcycle, so it will be kinda like learning a new track. I'm hoping I will do well there as supposedly it is not a difficult track to learn...and it is not so much a HP track...

And there arent any of those mondo hp volvo's registered :P

Speaking of tracks and difficulty learning them...

I went to Road Atlanta for the first time at the ARRC test day, and thought it really wasnt all that difficult of a track (although I know I still have time there).
Lowes is easy...cmp isnt really that difficult (turn 8 is the toughest, in my opinion)...and I hear roebling isnt so bad.
Moroso is easy...as is homestead...

In the southeast, I have found VIR to be the most difficult by far....That damn turn after the esses is downright scary. Hogspen is difficult....and turn, I think, turn 3? (kinda fast left turn) is tough...
Of all the tracks in the SE, VIR is the only one that gives me goosebumps :D

Knestis
04-07-2007, 06:02 PM
What should I think that you cite my two favorite corners at VIR as problem area? :)

T3 "NASCAR" is faster than it looks and I think a lot of people over-brake for it. "South Bend" is that kink following the climbing esses and a lot of time can be gained between there and Oak Tree, if you carry maximum speed through there. VERY cool corners.

The BEST one at VIR however is the right after the pits on the Patriot course - the little thing inside the Full Course. Wicked fast entry (for the space available), decreasing radius, into a hole. Yummy.

My personal jinx is T1/T2 on the Full Course (or T1 at Summit, et al). I REALLY dislike those long medium-speed sweepers, and I KNOW that I don't use them at all well...

K

iambhooper
04-07-2007, 08:57 PM
What should I think that you cite my two favorite corners at VIR as problem area? :)

T3 "NASCAR" is faster than it looks and I think a lot of people over-brake for it. "South Bend" is that kink following the climbing esses and a lot of time can be gained between there and Oak Tree, if you carry maximum speed through there. VERY cool corners.

The BEST one at VIR however is the right after the pits on the Patriot course - the little thing inside the Full Course. Wicked fast entry (for the space available), decreasing radius, into a hole. Yummy.

My personal jinx is T1/T2 on the Full Course (or T1 at Summit, et al). I REALLY dislike those long medium-speed sweepers, and I KNOW that I don't use them at all well...

K
[/b]

at the moment, i'm planning on the VIR event. it is by far my favorite weekend, the MARRS crowd adds to our ITC contingent, making for a fun weekend.

VIR is a wonderfull track... the corners that gives everyone troubles, are the ones that I enjoy the most. I agree with Kirk... proper entry into 3 sets up 4 and the flat esses, nicely. Southbend is the corner that seems to seperate drivers with ability from those who just happen to have slightly more powerfull cars. Hogpen has caused me trouble from ime to time.

Kirk, are you talking about the turn in fo the North Course cut through (after the bridge)? That is a blast! I love the turn in compresion, let the wheel unwrap while the car is light feeling... another great spot to gain on the competition.

Hope to see all at this one!
hoop

Ron
04-07-2007, 09:19 PM
We are thinking of commong to the Friday test day at Roebling and if the new mustang goes well my dad might stay the weekend and race. With three daughters all playing soccer there is no way I can run. So add a possible for the ITB list.

Watch out, Roebling is the track that our car runs well at!

Knestis
04-07-2007, 09:21 PM
...Kirk, are you talking about the turn in fo the North Course cut through (after the bridge)? ...[/b]
Nope. Same area but it's North Course T8, coming DOWNHILL past the Patriot Pits.

http://www.virclub.com/vir/images/track/track_map.jpg

If you did the Grande Course, you did it going up hill, and it was freakin' awful. Snore. Going clockwise through there, it's a different beast.

K

Butch Kummer
04-08-2007, 11:00 AM
mattbatson,

I'll grant you VIR is the most challenging track in SEDIV and I certainly wish it was closer so I could run it more often, but I respectfully submit that if Road Atlanta doesn't give you goosebumps then it's because you're not going fast enough. :P The removal of the Dip back in '96 got rid of the REALLY scary part, but even after 25 years Turn 12, Turn 1 and the Esses still make me hold my breath when I do it correctly.

seckerich
04-08-2007, 05:14 PM
Just a little heads up for the IT ranks. Registration is up for the MARRS/SARRC at VIR. :026:

mattbatson
04-08-2007, 09:01 PM
Butch,
Your prolly right about me not doing it right....
I have only been there once, it was only a test day, and I didnt have anyone there with me so I dont know what kind of times I was turning...

I honestly think the finish line turn (is that turn 12?), is pretty easy. Now, keep in mind I'm in an ITB car :P
You can see the whole corner in front of you... and I did seem to reel in people in this corner...so maybe it just suits me well.

Turn 1 is definitely fast....and the brake and turn in points for that corner are hard to see (I dont think I have it figured out yet). But, I never seemed to have any problem there either? I honestly dont know why, but neither of those two corners gave me fits.

Maybe RA just suits me...maybe I'm just slow there and dont realize it...maybe in an ITB car it is just plain easy :P

Now, if the corner is immediately after a series of flat out in fourth gear esses....and is at the crest of a hill...and is blind...and there is a big drop off the outside of the track out...

Now THAT is spooky! :eclipsee_steering:

But, then again, I've only been to VIR once :rolleyes:



We are thinking of commong to the Friday test day at Roebling and if the new mustang goes well my dad might stay the weekend and race. With three daughters all playing soccer there is no way I can run. So add a possible for the ITB list.

Watch out, Roebling is the track that our car runs well at!
[/b]

Great, hope ya make...
Bring it! I have no idea if I OR my car runs well there...but I'll bring the best I've got! :eclipsee_steering:

I'll keep my foot in it, and it'll either stick or it wont! :lol:

mlytle
04-09-2007, 11:07 PM
Just a little heads up for the IT ranks. Registration is up for the MARRS/SARRC at VIR. :026:
[/b]
thanks...i'm in!

JeffYoung
04-09-2007, 11:14 PM
Same here. Marshall, you running in R or in S?

Ben and Taylor Robertson ran their E36 in S at CMP two weeks ago. Car looked good, seemed to run pretty good. Got a second and a third I believe. Steve E. is untouchable down there.

seckerich
04-10-2007, 07:45 AM
thanks...i'm in!
[/b]
Be good to see you again. You know I plan to keep an ITR car off the pole? Let the smack talking begin. :P



Same here. Marshall, you running in R or in S?

Ben and Taylor Robertson ran their E36 in S at CMP two weeks ago. Car looked good, seemed to run pretty good. Got a second and a third I believe. Steve E. is untouchable down there.
[/b]
Thanks for the vote of confidence Jeff. I would not say untouchable but we have hit on a very good setup there. Finally got the car to work in the important places. Good luck at Roebling, I have to be at VIR with the RX8 GT so get a win for the NC boys. If we finish early enough Saturday I might tow down for Sunday.

JeffYoung
04-10-2007, 12:42 PM
Man, you were 5 seconds faster than anyone on Sturday qual, and there were a couple of good cars there (Steve P., Chris H., and when teh brakes work I do alright at that track).

Hope you make it to Roebling. Looks like Kip Van Steenburg will be there in the Miata, so that rabbit needs something to chase it (and it isn't me). The wildcard is Flynn's 190E is going to be there, never seen him run Roebling but know that car and driver are fast.

I ran 24 there at the SIC with old, old tires. Hoping for 23 this time around.

mlytle
04-11-2007, 09:19 PM
Same here. Marshall, you running in R or in S?


[/b]

R, of course. after all the bitchin' i did about restrictors and how a new class should be started....i had better be running in R! ;)



Be good to see you again. You know I plan to keep an ITR car off the pole? Let the smack talking begin. :P
[/b]

heck, i am just hoping the R allowances enable me to keep you in sight! ;)

dj10
04-12-2007, 04:11 PM
Be good to see you again. You know I plan to keep an ITR car off the pole? Let the smack talking begin. :P
[/b]



Steve, you seem like a hell of a nice guy from your posts. I hope get get to meet you @ VIR in May. I just wanted you to know, that I'm going to do everything in my power to "PISS ON YOUR PARADE"! ;) B)

R2 Racing
04-12-2007, 04:41 PM
I really want to come and do this event. I've been trying to get to VIR for three years now and still haven't. Their events are always just at the worst times for me. I was all set to make the trip for the March event, but it got cancelled. Now in order to do this one, I'd have to race at ORP in Indy the weekend before for the GLDiv opener, piss off Mom, and then hit Grattan two weeks after that in Michigan. Ugh. I'd consider cutting one of the other two, but we have other team cars commited to going to them, so I have to be there regaurdless of if I race or not. Chances: slim to none. :(

seckerich
04-12-2007, 05:22 PM
Steve, you seem like a hell of a nice guy from your posts. I hope get get to meet you @ VIR in May. I just wanted you to know, that I'm going to do everything in my power to "PISS ON YOUR PARADE"! ;) B)
[/b]
Sweet--I will buy the first beer. :026: We should try to find parking close together so we can rag each other all weekend. I just had to give my purple/black cohort a hard time. I look forward to that weekend every year because we get to race with so many different people.

dj10
04-12-2007, 06:05 PM
Sweet--I will buy the first beer. :026: We should try to find parking close together so we can rag each other all weekend. I just had to give my purple/black cohort a hard time. I look forward to that weekend every year because we get to race with so many different people. [/b]

Sounds Great, your on. :023:

Ya, Marshall has beat me up the last couple races @ Summit Point (his home track). This year is a new year, so we'll see again the end of April. :) I believe Marshall will attest, if I have a chance of making you life miserable on the track, I will. Especially Marshall's since he's in ITR with me. :) Hey, it's all in good fun and we have fun learning about the cars and each other.

Cobrar05
04-15-2007, 05:31 PM
Hi Guys...I am new to this forum. I will be at both Roebling and VIR. I did my double school at Roebling, but don't have a lap yet at VIR. I am a rookie and I don't expect my car to be overly competitive either.
Its a '95 Cobra R currently in T1 trim(full interior and exhaust out the back). By VIR it may well be in Motorola Cup trim, but still a street stock class configuration.

I just hope to get my laps in, learn something and keep the fenders on it. Oh and make some new friends.

dazzlesa
04-15-2007, 08:26 PM
does anybody have suggestions for flying in to vir from nyc? so far the flights i find are expensive and they take 5 hours including a plane change. thanks rick

lateapex911
04-15-2007, 09:11 PM
Call Pilot G. Amy and throw him some $$$...;)

Ron Earp
04-15-2007, 09:11 PM
Fly into Raleigh on Jet Blue direct from JFK. Drive 1.5 hours from RDU to VIR. Your other option is to get into Danville but that would be tough with any commerical carrier.

dj10
04-15-2007, 09:23 PM
Fly into Raleigh on Jet Blue direct from JFK. Drive 1.5 hours from RDU to VIR. Your other option is to get into Danville but that would be tough with any commerical carrier. [/b]



My friend just did this in Feb (but from Pgh) for the nasa race but rented a car and drove from Raleigh. It's a pain in the ass no matter which way you do it.

JeffYoung
04-15-2007, 10:42 PM
Your best bet may be Contintental from Newark to Greensboro (Piedmont Triad). It's about an hour from Greensboro to VIR, maybe 30-45 minutes closer than Raleigh. Flight should be direct, should be no more than a couple hundred dollars on 21 day advance.

mlytle
04-16-2007, 07:35 PM
Sweet--I will buy the first beer. :026: We should try to find parking close together so we can rag each other all weekend. I just had to give my purple/black cohort a hard time. I look forward to that weekend every year because we get to race with so many different people.
[/b]

alright...the makings of the big ITR/S corral is begining. first one through the gate grabs some real estate...last one buys the beer! oooo, bad plan..that means we have to sit there and wait for the beer.






Sounds Great, your on. :023:

Ya, Marshall has beat me up the last couple races @ Summit Point (his home track). This year is a new year, so we'll see again the end of April. :) I believe Marshall will attest, if I have a chance of making you life miserable on the track, I will. Especially Marshall's since he's in ITR with me. :) Hey, it's all in good fun and we have fun learning about the cars and each other.
[/b]

gotta watch out for that dj guy...crafty old jarhead....he let me win last year, then went and got a new engine and set track record at mid-o.....time for some grudge match, er, testing, action at summit in two weeks, eh dj? :D

this racing stuff is too much fun!

dj10
04-17-2007, 10:09 AM
alright...the makings of the big ITR/S corral is begining. first one through the gate grabs some real estate...last one buys the beer! oooo, bad plan..that means we have to sit there and wait for the beer.

gotta watch out for that dj guy...crafty old jarhead....he let me win last year, then went and got a new engine and set track record at mid-o.....time for some grudge match, er, testing, action at summit in two weeks, eh dj? :D

this racing stuff is too much fun!
[/b]


"Hey how about the last one in buys the beer? I'm going down for the test day. :D "


That will be a cold day in hell when I let a coastie win! :lol: You earned that race, while I was being used as a brake marker by, it seemed, like every AS & ITE car on the track. By the way Marshall I did notice a TARGET painted on my car after the race and I know I didn't put it there! ;)

I&#39;ll definately see you at summit and we can plan our attack on Steve @ vir, but......shhhhhhh, mum&#39;s the word we can&#39;t let him know what were <strike>plotting</strike> scheming. B) :D

Hotshoe
04-18-2007, 07:42 PM
You know I plan to keep an ITR car off the pole? Let the smack talking begin. :P
[/b]

Steve,

.... If, and I do mean IF my BMW Z3 is ready, you better have that camera on and pointing to the front because you are not going to see me long....... lol

.... Rickey

seckerich
04-22-2007, 07:29 AM
Steve,

.... If, and I do mean IF my BMW Z3 is ready, you better have that camera on and pointing to the front because you are not going to see me long....... lol

.... Rickey
[/b]
You do plan to return the favor and be my brakes in turn 1? Good luck getting the car done, should be lots of fun. :026:

Hotshoe
04-22-2007, 06:29 PM
You do plan to return the favor and be my brakes in turn 1? Good luck getting the car done.
[/b]

Steve,

..... Brakes in turn one? Sure just be sure to push me on the right...... lol

..... Sam Moore has been working hard trying to get her ready. She may not be completed but I&#39;m going to run her anyway. Sort of a "work in progress" B)

seckerich
04-22-2007, 08:08 PM
I just figured you would return the favor after all the times I helped you stop in turn 1 at CMP. Can&#39;t wait to get back to VIR FULL course instead of that short course we ran at Goblins Go. Glad that was the last time. Might see you at Roebling if we get done early enough Saturday with the RX8 at VIR. Hope to drive down Saturday night and run Sunday.

JeffYoung
04-22-2007, 08:17 PM
Why don&#39;t both you guys go park in turn 1. I&#39;ll be done there after a while, and I can use you guys to stop.

Seriously, Steve, get on down to Roebling. Lots of S cars, should be a good race.

Hotshoe
04-22-2007, 09:20 PM
I can use you guys to stop.
[/b]

Jeff,

..... I&#39;m not sure we would have enough brakes to stop all that ............. LOL ;)

JeffYoung
04-22-2007, 09:24 PM
Hey! I now have a working master cylinder. Braking just went from horrible to bad. Like i said, park in turn 1, I&#39;ll be down that way in a bit, and could use your help stopping..just like CMP!

Ron Earp
04-23-2007, 10:18 AM
Hey! I now have a working master cylinder. Braking just went from horrible to bad.
[/b]

The sad thing about this comment is it is true. Bad is about as good as that car gets, even with 100% all new components. It brakes okay if driven 8/10ths, but drive it flat out or close to and things get sketchy.

R

Ken Grammer
04-26-2007, 11:36 PM
I&#39;m with Butch on Turn 12... done "right", it does get your heart rate up even in the "new" post-dip era.

I&#39;ve race Road Atlanta in a number of cars... from the IT Trucks to AS as well as a few Motorola/Speedvsion Cup cars, and in all cases when you are on the limit through twelve, it&#39;s a blast.

I still miss the dip though. The extra speed you would carry under the bridge, while praying that the car wuld not track out too far, then holding on for the apex and track out through twelve was nothing short or diabolical. I wish they could have modified the track but left the dip in! :D

Butch, how are the esses from 4 to 5 now with the new paving? I imagine that section is really faster now?

mlytle
05-07-2007, 10:26 PM
looks like group 5 is oversubscribed (its/r/a). i hope they don&#39;t move classes around at this late date. anyone heard any news?

Gregg
05-07-2007, 11:14 PM
I thought ITA was running in Group 1 (which is also at 85+ cars). My understanding is that they&#39;re looking at jiggering the run groups. You&#39;ve got one at the aforementioned 85+, one at 105 :o, one at 29 :bash_1_: and one at 15. :bash_1_: :bash_1_: :bash_1_:

Gregg
05-08-2007, 12:52 AM
Update....
http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimat...0877;p=0#000000 (http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000877;p=0#0000 00)

Originally posted by NCR Registrar Ginny Condrey
The Stewards have decided to move ITS and ITR from Group 5 to Group 7, so a lot of changes will be coming to the entry list--hopefully all will switch over tomorrow.
Say hello to "Small Bore" ITS/ITR.

iambhooper
05-08-2007, 07:46 AM
I believe ITS ran with the "Small Bore" cars last fall. Best I can remember, it was relatively uneventfull.

Having been on track with 109 cars in an ECR last year, 85 will seem empty! :D

Of course, there might be one less... Sadly, I have some issues with my grandfather&#39;s health, that might keep me away for a day or two. We&#39;ll see.

hoop

seckerich
05-08-2007, 07:47 AM
Thats just about stupid. We run lap times within a few tenth&#39;s of SRF at VIR and usually race with them there. The drivers have always been first class and stayed out of each others race. Group 3 was the best move. 24 cars in that group when I last checked. Now we can dodge GP cars and screw up all the production races. Sounds like the same crap as letting us run production if we want as IT cars. Maybe we are test mules. I guess they ignored Ginny. Yes NCR, this was a stupid move if you do it this way.

spnkzss
05-08-2007, 08:40 AM
We&#39;ll have to see if the rain scares anyone off. Chance of thunderstorms Friday 30%, Saturday 60% and Sunday 30%.

GCondrey
05-08-2007, 11:39 AM
Well, I see that word got out about the ITS and ITR move to Group 7 before I could post something myself. I do need to clarify that NCR does not really have the say in this. We made the request for the groupings change to Group 3, but it is ultimately the SOMs&#39; decision.

I do not have a reason for their choice--at least not one from the stewards, but someone has mentioned that in cases like this, it&#39;s typical to move to a later group--not earlier. The idea is that someone would not get word and arrive too late to make their run group. This is a possibility. I&#39;m still trying to contact everyone involved to let them know of the change.

Speaking of this, please, PLEASE, put email addresses on your entry forms. Many of the drivers were sent emails at 12:30 this morning, but I couldn&#39;t possibly begin calling drivers that early. :birra:

seckerich
05-08-2007, 12:55 PM
Thanks Ginny. I will bring tar and feathers for the SOM&#39;s. :D Thanks for all your work getting the waiting list worked out so everyone can race.

Knestis
05-08-2007, 01:43 PM
We&#39;ll have to see if the rain scares anyone off. Chance of thunderstorms Friday 30%, Saturday 60% and Sunday 30%.
[/b]
Fingers crossed for rain but no lightning. :)

K

JeffYoung
05-08-2007, 02:24 PM
Kirk, you are the man. The Aquaman.

jjjanos
05-08-2007, 05:19 PM
Re:Groupings-

They won&#39;t do this, but it&#39;s pretty clear that the group car counts make more sense if the sports racers wen&#39;t into Group 3, the open-wheel cars were all combined and the IT/Miata groups get reshuffled into less crowded groups.

There are sixteen cars in group 2 - they could run a one-mile track and be GCR compliant. Meanwhile, one group is going to be oversubscribed despite the reshuffling and a second group will require a waiver to run.

5PM Tuesday:
G1: 88 cars
G2: 16 cars
G3: 33 cars
G4: 69 cars
G5: 92 cars after moving ITS/ITR
G6: 30 cars
G7: 55 cars with the move.

Heck - give the open-wheel cars an extra lap to compensate the slower classes.

Hotshoe
05-08-2007, 08:33 PM
Thanks Ginny. I will bring tar and feathers for the SOM&#39;s. :D Thanks for all your work getting the waiting list worked out so everyone can race.
[/b]


.......I would like to thank Ginny also. She does an outstanding job for all of us, Thank You.

....... As for the SOM&#39;s. I hope it isn&#39;t the same one that allowed a driver to qualify their car and then start a different car in the race from their original starting position. And didn&#39;t care to correct the problem after it was brought to his attention........ Hmmmmmmmmm

JeffYoung
05-08-2007, 09:34 PM
Yeah, sorry about that Rick. I didn&#39;t know you couldn&#39;t switch out Triumphs. I figure when one breaks, just easier to bust out a spare car.

Cobrar05
05-08-2007, 09:37 PM
hmm...looking thru my photos from roebling....

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/txpd/boss%20rebuild/race%20track%20photos/RoeblingRoad4.jpg

Hotshoe
05-09-2007, 08:53 AM
Yeah, sorry about that Rick. I didn&#39;t know you couldn&#39;t switch out Triumphs. I figure when one breaks, just easier to bust out a spare car.
[/b]

Jeff,

..... Hey, that&#39;s the same thing some guys do with Miatas............ ;)

That sure is a nice shot of your car............. Wonder who painted it ?????

JeffYoung
05-09-2007, 09:36 AM
You painted THAT side. Fortunatley, they got my good side.

seckerich
05-09-2007, 02:08 PM
All my paint work is hidden Ricky--you at least get your work noticed. :D

Hotshoe
05-10-2007, 09:57 PM
All my paint work is hidden Ricky--you at least get your work noticed. :D
[/b]

Steve,

... Hope to turn a few heads this weekend because,........ I&#39;m going to have her ready. Man is it great to have friends. I have had so many people help me the past few weeks that it leaves me speechless. But off the top I would like to thank, Bob Garmon, Paul Perez, Estus White, and Sam Moore. My dream car is going to become a reality on Saturday at VIR.

...Thanks Guys

...Rick Thompson
.. ITR 98BMW Z3

Ron Earp
05-11-2007, 11:49 AM
Nice to hear that thing is getting on track, wonderful!!!

Are you running it with a top? Or are you going to go for the windblown look?

Wish I could make VIR, but the Z motor let go at a bad time and two weeks was just not enough time to get another one setup.

R

chuck baader
05-11-2007, 06:50 PM
Whattttt :) :) :) Rick .. we won&#39;t be able to play passing games again??? :OLA: Chuck

iambhooper
05-11-2007, 09:58 PM
what a rough day... 1st I get the news that gramps isn&#39;t doing so well, at about the same time my father arrives at VIR with the car. He makes the decision to turn around, scrub the weekend and go take care of family, mMeanwhile I&#39;m returning from a meeting in SC.

Later we decide that I should just take the truck -n- car to the track. So, as the car arrives for the 2nd time, Blair points out that the truck tranny is leaking fluid! GREAT! :wacko: I park everything, go register and have to work out all the issues. Looks like I&#39;m going to get AAA to pick up the Expedition, and hopefully my cousin can get the trailer and honda back on sunday.

Geeesh... I hope all the bad juju is gone from the weekend now!

hoop

Ron Earp
05-12-2007, 05:51 PM
hoop, feel your pain, hope it works out!!!

Alright, some one give me some IT race reports. Us folks with busted stuff are eagerly awaiting!

R

iambhooper
05-12-2007, 07:54 PM
hoop, feel your pain, hope it works out!!!

Alright, some one give me some IT race reports. Us folks with busted stuff are eagerly awaiting!

R
[/b]


Thanks!

Your report... I put the Honda in the Tire wall at 3 in this AM&#39;s qualifying! :mad1:

Group 1:

ITA- Bowie Gray
ITB Sam Moore
IT7 Grover Mcnair
ITC Brian Hooper :smilie_pokal:
SSC Stewart Black
MSRX Joe Nelson
MITA Alan Dohne
MITB Bill Radford
MIT7 James Hess
MITC Beth Burkhard

I didn&#39;t see the Spec Miata race, and left b4 the finish of Group 7 (ITS, ITE, ITR and prod cars)... but I do know that Jeff broke coming into Hog Pen.

If I missed anyone, I appologize.

hoop

mlytle
05-14-2007, 01:57 PM
although crowded, it was a great weekend!

4 itr cars...(three of us "spec e36&#39;s" and ricky&#39;s z3)

very glad the its/itr crowd got moved out of the spec miata mess, even if it meant being the last group on a long hot day.

that tr8 did not look pretty sitting on the first apex of hogpen...what happened jeff?

anyone know the story on that first gen rx7 #30 running in its? that guy was freaking DANGEROUS and should not have been allowed to run at all by the stewards! his laptimes were in the 3:30 range...while the front group runners were in the 2:11&#39;s. a lot of scary moments were had and races screwed up trying to get around that crawling speed bump. if it was a mechanical issue, he should have fixed it or got the heck off the track. if driver, then he should not be out there. it is a wonder nobody got hurt.

JeffYoung
05-14-2007, 03:48 PM
That&#39;s Smokey Garcia. Real nice guy, raced for a while. Back in after a long lay off. I think he was having some car issues, but I agree he was way slow. I was at Hog&#39;s Pen worker&#39;s station for the duration; stewards ultimately had to call him in.

I sheared the caliper bolts on the right front. Teh caliper lodged up in the wheel well against the strut tube, locking the right front and bending the strut tube. I was lucky to just slide off to the right there. A shame, I had qualified 5th and was moving up. But you have to finish....

At least I got to watch a good race.......

Good to see 4 R cars out there. Sorry I didn&#39;t get a chance to say hello.

Jeff

lateapex911
05-14-2007, 04:22 PM
jeeez Jeff, that sucks. If it&#39;s not one thing it&#39;s another. I thought you said that thing had no braking power! Now it&#39;s grabbing the disc so hard the bolts are shearing?? Kidding...the bolts are probably some weird British impossible to get design, right?

seckerich
05-14-2007, 04:29 PM
Sorry to hear about the car Jeff. That was the worst I have ever felt a car at VIR. That gocart rubber on top of the fact that no corner worker seems to know what a black flag was?? EP car dropping oil everywhere and smoking so bad the oil was all over my windshield. Total BS some of those cars were allowed to trash the surface that bad without being called in. We were 4 seconds off our usual times and the G readings on the stack were horrible. OK-- I will quit with the complaining now. :D NCR did one heck of a job dealing with the huge car counts and moved things along as well as could be expected. It must be like herding cats to get 90+ spec miata&#39;s on grid.

Anybody know what happened in the ITS race on Sunday? The whole right side of my car was missing after Saturday so I loaded and went home.

dj10
05-14-2007, 07:40 PM
The whole right side of my car was missing after Saturday so I loaded and went home. [/quote]

Steve, what happened to you? Sounds like Jeff didn&#39;t have a good weekend either! :(

seckerich
05-14-2007, 10:10 PM
And just where were you at Dan??? Missed meeting you again. Another RX7 parked in my passenger seat. :D Lost the whole right side, rear trailing arm, and broke the exhaust in half when I went over the edge at hogpen. Finished the race but loaded up and skipped Sunday. Got to bust it to get ready for the CMP double Memorial Day weekend. Still had the original paint from building the car in 98. Guess it needed some love anyway.

mlytle
05-14-2007, 10:34 PM
anyone know why the results for the last couple run groups for sunday are not posted on mylaps.com?

JeffYoung
05-15-2007, 09:34 AM
My car is two steps forward, 1.9999999 back. 2nd at Rockingham, and then failure/failure/failure. So it goes. I&#39;ll get it fixed and keep plugging. Running nearer to the front sure takes WORK......

That track was unlike VIR. Slick everywhere. The interesting thing is everyones slowed down, and I did not, so I was only a couple of seconds off the pace. When those RX7s can&#39;t wind up because it is slick, I like that...lol...

Dan, missed you at VIR. Was hoping to finally say hello.

Steve, you and Kent got together at the top of rollercoaster?

mlytle
05-15-2007, 11:09 AM
My car is two steps forward, 1.9999999 back. 2nd at Rockingham, and then failure/failure/failure. So it goes. I&#39;ll get it fixed and keep plugging. Running nearer to the front sure takes WORK......

That track was unlike VIR. Slick everywhere. The interesting thing is everyones slowed down, and I did not, so I was only a couple of seconds off the pace. When those RX7s can&#39;t wind up because it is slick, I like that...lol...

Dan, missed you at VIR. Was hoping to finally say hello.

Steve, you and Kent got together at the top of rollercoaster?
[/b]
keep pluggin&#39;! great to see "different" cars out there..although i would prefer to see it moving rather than a decoration in hogpen!! :)

i didn&#39;t think the track was that slick. i was 8/10&#39;s slower than i was a month ago, but i was crediting that to the air temp. guess i just wasn&#39;t pushing it fast enough....;)

happyjap
05-15-2007, 12:59 PM
Hats off to Ginny - she worked through many race related and not race related issues to pull off a smooth registration for a very large car count race without anyone knowing she had problems. Wish I could have helped more but I was laden with car issues. The region did a great job keeping the schedule and handling the transition from a three day event to a two day event - that made more sense than last year. Almost no complaints were heard.

dj10
05-15-2007, 01:04 PM
And just where were you at Dan??? Missed meeting you again. Another RX7 parked in my passenger seat. :D Lost the whole right side, rear trailing arm, and broke the exhaust in half when I went over the edge at hogpen. Finished the race but loaded up and skipped Sunday. Got to bust it to get ready for the CMP double Memorial Day weekend. Still had the original paint from building the car in 98. Guess it needed some love anyway. [/b]



Ouch Steve! Again, I missed meeting you and Jeff, it was not my intent. We had such a poor weather pattern in March & April I couldn&#39;t get out and test. With all the changes from ITS to ITR it has been a slow progression for the better. I used this entire weekend, from Fri to Sun to test @ Nelson Ledges where there was a double regional but only a very small field. I believe we will be very close with all the suspension settings we need to run the National @ Mid Ohio in DP on June 2nd. If we would have made the changes to the car we are doing now, I probably would have been a lot faster last year!

Sorry to have missed you two again and for your mishaps this weekend. I&#39;m just glad you guys are ok. Let me know if you guys ever decide to come up north. I&#39;m sure we could & would show you some northern hospitality. I am planning on ARRC this year.

JeffYoung
05-15-2007, 01:21 PM
And echoing what Steve and Rex said above -- the region did a GREAT job with this event. More than 400 cars I believe, and things ran on time and smoothly. Very impressive for an event that size.

The two day SARRC/MARRS format is much more agreeable to my system....

Dan, hopefully we will get to meet soon. Is your car moving to ITR, or to DP?

dj10
05-15-2007, 02:52 PM
Dan, hopefully we will get to meet soon. Is your car moving to ITR, or to DP? [/b]



Jeff, I raced/ tested in ITR this weekend. I&#39;m only doing Mid Ohio June 2nd in DP because the restricted regional the same weekend won&#39;t allow ITR because they think we are to fast. :D So for me to get ready for the BIG IT FESTIVAL @ Mid O in August, I&#39;m using the National DP race to setup my car.

SRX7#27
05-15-2007, 03:52 PM
>>"And echoing what Steve and Rex said above -- the region did a GREAT job with this event. More than 400 cars I believe, and things ran on time and smoothly. Very impressive for an event that size.

Agreed. Very smooth. especially compared with some of the SARRC/MARRS from a few years ago. That being said, I think the huge run groups are a problem. Simply too many cars. Trying to pack &#39;em all through the turns on the start doesn&#39;t seem to work very well. As everybody queues up for a corner, all the spaces fill up and then people start elbowing eachother for room. Next thing you know, there&#39;s another damaged car going off, or at least a bumper on the track. Seems to smooth out after the first lap when people have enough room to think before they dive for a scrap of space.. I wonder if split starts might improve the situation when there are that many cars. I recall it was the same way the first couple of time I went when there were over 400 entries, like in &#39;01 and &#39;02...

>>"The two day SARRC/MARRS format is much more agreeable to my system...."

As much as I love bumming around VIR, the 2 day format definitely works better.. Used to have to tow on Wed and not get home till Sunday. That&#39;s 4 nights of camping and it&#39;s also pretty hard on the liver!

Anubis
05-15-2007, 05:01 PM
Sorry to hear about the car Jeff. That was the worst I have ever felt a car at VIR. That gocart rubber on top of the fact that no corner worker seems to know what a black flag was??
[/b]

Steve,

Corner workers certainly know what the black flag is, however you might want to check out the GCR concerning black flags(pay particular attention to the note that is in all caps) before making a statement like that:

F. BLACK FLAG (Solid Black)
CLOSED BLACK FLAG (Furled) Pointed or shaken at an individual car from the Starter’s stand (optionally, accompanied by a number board indicating the car number): WARNING! You have been observed driving in an unsafe and/or improper manner. If the action continues, you shall be given an OPEN BLACK FLAG.
BLACK, OPEN - Displayed from the Starter’s stand, and accompanied by a number board indicating the car number: Proceed directly to the pits and the location designated by the Chief Steward or event Supplementary Regulations for consultation with Officials. DO NOT TAKE ANOTHER LAP. NOTE: This flag and accompanying number board may be additionally displayed at another station location elsewhere on the course.
BLACK, OPEN, DISPLAYED AT ALL STATIONS - The session has been halted. Practice/qualifying/racing has stopped and all cars shall proceed directly to the pits. This flag condition shall be accompanied by an ‘ALL’ sign displayed at the Starter’s stand and the sign may be repeated at stations located elsewhere on the course. If the session/race is restarted, it is done under the provisions of Section 6.5, Restarts.
NOTE: THE BLACK FLAG CAN ONLY BE DISPLAYED BY ORDER OF THE CHIEF STEWARD AS RELAYED THROUGH RACE CONTROL.

Joe-Racer
05-15-2007, 05:59 PM
In his haste, I&#39;m sure Steve meant to say meatball. But his point was well taken.

seckerich
05-15-2007, 06:16 PM
Thanks for the correction. I did mean the meatball. :P It just was so blatant that I would expect the corners to call it in. If they did and were ignored--so be it. The smoke and oil from a few cars were way out of line. The one car who I will not name would disappear in my video in his own cloud of smoke. My windshield and car were covered with oil after the Saturday race. For me the whole weekend was a "what else can go wrong" kind of trip. Good people, good racing, and can&#39;t wait for next year. :026:

PS. I have seen a black flag before!!

Anubis
05-15-2007, 06:19 PM
Mechanical black flags while listed in the next section of the GCR fall under the same boat, it is entirely upto the stewards and the order must come from control. Not having been there I can&#39;t say what was, or wasn&#39;t calling.. just want to make the procedures clear to avoid future misconceptions on what we can and cannot do.

Cobrar05
05-15-2007, 08:33 PM
I think I got to practice with some of you guys on Friday and I enjoyed sharing the track with you. I thought the weekend ran very well based on my limited experience. At the very least I always knew easily what was going on and when I need to be at the grid. Not always the case at other tracks I&#39;ve been to.

As for gaffes by those running the races for us, I offer the following.

In my big bore race on Saturday I was having a spirited race with an Asedan Mustang heading up thru the snake when I saw a plume of smoke coming from the hill near turn 10. Next I saw the tow truck light flashing....AND MOVING....just past the flag station. It was then that I realized he was headed for the race track. I checked the flag station to see the worker struggling to get the white flag out. Not the yellow or the red, but the white....no S*^T there was something slow on the track...with flashing lights on it....the Mustang I was chasing nearly ran up the tow truck&#39;s tail lights thru the esses....lots of room there for passing tow trucks.....whew.

mlytle
05-15-2007, 09:20 PM
I think I got to practice with some of you guys on Friday and I enjoyed sharing the track with you. I thought the weekend ran very well based on my limited experience. At the very least I always knew easily what was going on and when I need to be at the grid. Not always the case at other tracks I&#39;ve been to.

As for gaffes by those running the races for us, I offer the following.

In my big bore race on Saturday I was having a spirited race with an Asedan Mustang heading up thru the snake when I saw a plume of smoke coming from the hill near turn 10. Next I saw the tow truck light flashing....AND MOVING....just past the flag station. It was then that I realized he was headed for the race track. I checked the flag station to see the worker struggling to get the white flag out. Not the yellow or the red, but the white....no S*^T there was something slow on the track...with flashing lights on it....the Mustang I was chasing nearly ran up the tow truck&#39;s tail lights thru the esses....lots of room there for passing tow trucks.....whew.
[/b]
i was watching the big bore race from the hill by the bridge. saw that whole deal in the esses. we were shocked that the ev jumped on the track there rather than cruising up the grass for a bit until there was a break in traffic. it was scary to watch, had to be worse from inside a car!

i just reviewed my incar vid from the weekend and was just shaking my head at the its #30 rx7. lapped him at least twice in every session. scary closing rates. he was probably going 30mph at the top of the esses when our front pack blew by him at one point. he should have been taken off the track by the stewards after the first qual session on sat. nice guy or not, he was a serious safety hazzard all weekend. would have rather had an ev on track in our group...faster and with flashing lights at least. sheesh.

iambhooper
05-15-2007, 09:37 PM
Right or wrong, from my experience working corners and haveing a fellow racer that owns a britich prod car, I can tell you a couple of things:
1) all old british car leak oil... in fact, some might even occaisionally have to come in for several quarts during the race! eh!
2) unless it&#39;s on fire, or spraying a thick coat on the car behind, little will happen. Meatballs are a judgement call. the stewards take into consideration feedback from all the reporting stations, b4 making a call... everyone is a customer, and they want to be put on a good, safe show. Sometimes what you think is the right call, isn&#39;t, and vice versa.
3) Workers, stewards, and drivers are all human. Heck, I got blue flagged in sundays race. I was in 2nd place, running well, and they through the flag at me for the 3rd place car on my tail!
4) Yes, the track was greasy... very greasy. In the past 3 weeks they have had The Rolex, and 2 historic weekends. Plus the weeks have been full. Throw in little to no rain, and you have a mess.

JeffYoung
05-15-2007, 10:09 PM
All good points Hoop......and most importantly:

CONGRATS ON THE WIN!

mlytle
05-15-2007, 11:08 PM
4) Yes, the track was greasy... very greasy. In the past 3 weeks they have had The Rolex, and 2 historic weekends. Plus the weeks have been full. Throw in little to no rain, and you have a mess.
[/b]

was one of the historic weekends the vintage/bmwcca race mid april? i can attest that the track was VERY clean when we left it...that was the weekend that monster storm hit the east coast. not much chance of any grease/oil left on the track after our race in the middle of the storm that sunday! :lol:

mlytle
05-15-2007, 11:19 PM
1) all old british car leak oil... in fact, some might even occaisionally have to come in for several quarts during the race! eh!
[/b]

and old porsches...and old alfa&#39;s and old (fill in the blank prod car). i had never run with the small bore prod group before. i thought running with big bore all season last year would have prepped me, but i was surprised at the large number of smoke generators out there in group 7. every lapping situation became a guessing game...is it just something burning??? or is is something leaking on the track..... :unsure:

there were some really fast prod cars with great drivers out there too. the ep rx7, 240z and 2002 were a blast to run with.

iambhooper
05-16-2007, 06:30 AM
thats since the big down poor. my dad works for the track, so i usually have a good idea of track conditions before we get there... now if it helps or not, i&#39;m not to say.

Thanks Jeff! i was very surprised to pull that one out on saturday. the scirraco had tons of torque and puled me down the straights. So even though he had gone off twice, he managed to get back in front each time. my car also had setup issues, that i didn&#39;t get diagnosed until sunday... the rear was rotating way too much and the car was just not neutral enough for VIR. anyway, got we were in the right position coming off of hog pen on the last lap to pass him when he was stuck behind an ITB golf, thats the important part.

i found more speed for sunday&#39;s race, but finished third.

hoop

Charlie Broring
05-16-2007, 06:48 PM
I had a great time and a successful race. However the 80 car ITA,ITB, ITC,IT7, SRX7 group was way too big. There was lots of bent sheet metal in Sundays race. The term "Cluster F**k" kept being used to describe Saturday&#39;s qualifying. Thankfully the stewards responded to our request to grid Sunday&#39;s qualifying based on Saturday&#39;s time. It seemed universal among the MARRS ITB drivers that the large field detracted form the quality and enjoyment of the event.

I&#39;m looking forward to returning next year but have been asked to request a return to the previous 3 day format or run it as a single race with more but smaller groups.

Charlie Broring
MARRS ITB Driver Rep.

seckerich
05-16-2007, 07:20 PM
When you have groups with 12 cars and others with 90+ it is clear something with the groups needs to change. Add one more group and combine open wheel.

Knestis
05-16-2007, 10:26 PM
The draw format was a special kind of problem on Sat. morning but I don&#39;t buy that the beating and banging was all about the number of cars on the track. There were some dumb moves going on out there, and a few people who were missing some fundamental understandings, like "close up on the cars in front of you on the pace lap, you big stoopie."

K

mlytle
05-16-2007, 10:29 PM
When you have groups with 12 cars and others with 90+ it is clear something with the groups needs to change. Add one more group and combine open wheel.
[/b]
i thought it was amusing at the drivers meeting sat when it was suggested to move the small srf group into the smaller open wheel group. an srf driver complained about the speed differential being unsafe....hmmm, there were already fa/fc in the open wheel group running with fv&#39;s and f500&#39;s! srf&#39;s would have been in the middle.

and even the speed differential there couldn&#39;t hold a candle to the speed differential in group 7.

mstutt
05-17-2007, 11:13 AM
i thought it was amusing at the drivers meeting sat when it was suggested to move the small srf group into the smaller open wheel group. an srf driver complained about the speed differential being unsafe....hmmm, there were already fa/fc in the open wheel group running with fv&#39;s and f500&#39;s! srf&#39;s would have been in the middle.
[/b]


I have a hard time swallowing that one. Again this year, SRX7 was in the big bore practice group. I can&#39;t imagine a bigger power/speed differential.

Bugeater
05-17-2007, 12:59 PM
Great weekend - I must say I have never passed more damn towtrucks and cars pointing in the wrong direction in a race weekend! What class were the trucks BTW? I never saw them pass tech....Those damned trucks sitting off to the right of the esses while wizzing by at 125 was not a good feeling....or the worker getting out of his truck at T11 on the side *facing the track and my splitter* as I am barreling down into the brakezone wasnt comforting either. I suppose the added miscellaneous moving objects on and near-track make the races always a learning experience...and MAN there was alot of that!

Yo Mr. Cobra, were you ever privvy to the "choo choo train" smokescreen created on lap 1 sunday? LOL! My in-car video shows it well...also the oil puked out later on in the race made for some interesting ice skating up at southbend (T10)...I dont like iceskating there. Baaaaaaaad feelin. T14 was a big oil-fun-extravaganza as well....

Yeah, that was fun.

Cobrar05
05-17-2007, 08:41 PM
i was watching the big bore race from the hill by the bridge. saw that whole deal in the esses. we were shocked that the ev jumped on the track there rather than cruising up the grass for a bit until there was a break in traffic. it was scary to watch, had to be worse from inside a car![/b]

I never felt in danger because I saw the entire thing unfold and was prepared to avoid the tow truck. I was disappointed that it pretty well killed my chase of the AS Mustang, though.



Yo Mr. Cobra, were you ever privvy to the "choo choo train" smokescreen created on lap 1 sunday? LOL! My in-car video shows it well...also the oil puked out later on in the race made for some interesting ice skating up at southbend (T10)...I dont like iceskating there. Baaaaaaaad feelin. T14 was a big oil-fun-extravaganza as well....

Yeah, that was fun.
[/b]

I think I need refresher on the choo choo train. I am not sure I recall that. Back where I was it was pretty busy. The white vintage Corvette was off in the grass a row or so ahead of me on the front stretch BEFORE the green flag came out and my area got all packed in and pretty crazy.

I would like to see the in car video. Did my white O5 car show up in your footage at all? I recall coming into tech behind you Sunday and assume we finished up that way.

Bugeater
05-17-2007, 10:23 PM
Pretty sure I saw the R in the vid, but I&#39;ll be damned if I can find a way to convert it yet small enuf to host it...
Its a newer Sony High Definition video camera, and whatever proprietary hardware compression they are using is not compatible with my roxio software to get the file sizes to manageable format (like wmv, mpeg4 etc...) I mean, 1 lap (2.07-09 minutes) = nearly 500MB! The race footage is too large for a DVD (4.7gig) at the current mpeg2 format.

PITA right now cuz its too new for current software, but holy sh1t does it show DETAIL. Its filmed at 1080i high def.

Once I find a way to convert it to a wmv file it should compress to like 80MB or so, and I will stick it somewhere...like youtube where I have another file of roughly the same size.

Oh yeah, love the Cobra R.

spnkzss
05-18-2007, 07:55 AM
Pretty sure I saw the R in the vid, but I&#39;ll be damned if I can find a way to convert it yet small enuf to host it...
Its a newer Sony High Definition video camera, and whatever proprietary hardware compression they are using is not compatible with my roxio software to get the file sizes to manageable format (like wmv, mpeg4 etc...) I mean, 1 lap (2.07-09 minutes) = nearly 500MB! The race footage is too large for a DVD (4.7gig) at the current mpeg2 format.

PITA right now cuz its too new for current software, but holy sh1t does it show DETAIL. Its filmed at 1080i high def.

Once I find a way to convert it to a wmv file it should compress to like 80MB or so, and I will stick it somewhere...like youtube where I have another file of roughly the same size.

Oh yeah, love the Cobra R.
[/b]

Instead of trying to convert to wmv, do what DirecTV and try to find a way to convert it to .MP4.

mlytle
05-18-2007, 01:03 PM
results for sunday races 5/6/7 are now up on mylaps.com

dj10
05-18-2007, 03:42 PM
results for sunday races 5/6/7 are now up on mylaps.com [/b]



5 Laps on Sunday?

mlytle
05-18-2007, 10:52 PM
5 Laps on Sunday?
[/b]

no.....10. you must be looking at the qualifying session.

unless you were the #30 rx7, then you got 5 cause you were lapped so many times...

dj10
05-19-2007, 08:09 AM
no.....10. you must be looking at the qualifying session.

unless you were the #30 rx7, then you got 5 cause you were lapped so many times... [/b]



Ahhhh copy.

mgyip
05-22-2007, 12:05 AM
I had a great time and a successful race. However the 80 car ITA,ITB, ITC,IT7, SRX7 group was way too big. There was lots of bent sheet metal in Sundays race. [/b]

I also had fun - more an Saturday than Sunday though. I was fortunately able to avoid the carnage but it wasn&#39;t for lack of trying by a white RX-7 that pushed me off on the first lap on Sunday.

I agree that the fields were huge and qualifying on Saturday, to say the least, fugly. Either go back to a 3-day double or a single sanction 2-day event. The huge groups don&#39;t work well together and it&#39;s not much fun racing with cars that have virtually identical lap times but different classes - ITA, ITB, IT7 and SRX7 in particular.

iambhooper
05-22-2007, 06:53 AM
I also had fun - more an Saturday than Sunday though. I was fortunately able to avoid the carnage but it wasn&#39;t for lack of trying by a white RX-7 that pushed me off on the first lap on Sunday.

I agree that the fields were huge and qualifying on Saturday, to say the least, fugly. Either go back to a 3-day double or a single sanction 2-day event. The huge groups don&#39;t work well together and it&#39;s not much fun racing with cars that have virtually identical lap times but different classes - ITA, ITB, IT7 and SRX7 in particular.
[/b]

Not to champion large fields, but, you guys obviously arent used to them. The first 3 years I raced, I predominatly ran the ECR&#39;s (with the Double SARRC/MARRS being the main exception from that routine), which routinely fielded 80+ cars on a 3.27 mile track at VIR. We even had 1 race where the stewards waived the field requirements and allowed 109 cars on the track at once (the end result was one of the cleanest races I have seen from behind the wheel)!

You complain about the mix of ITA, IT7, ITB, SPEC7 and ITC rides... throw in the ITS, SRF&#39;s and Spec Miatas, then you&#39;ll learn how to deal with large fields. These guys will pass you like a pack of dogs running around the heard!

From my cars position at the back of the grid (hey, it is a C car afterall) I have been fortunate to avoild these circumstances while having an excellent view. To me, most of the problems at VIR appear to involve the driver&#39;s that arent familiar/comfortable with the track layout.

At the back, the problem I run into most often comes from the cars that haven&#39;t run VIR enough. Usually they are intimidated by the flat or climbing esse&#39;s, or they trail brake all the way down through hogpen... only to be blindingly fast down the straights. Now to offer the benifit of the doubt, perhaps they are having handling issues and are holding me up 3-5 seconds per lap in the corners only to pull and pass me on the straights (my car lacks the proper final drive). This is an issue that I seldom run into in the ECR&#39;s.

That being said... I have enjoyed the SARRC/MARRS event over the pst 4 years. It has given me an opportunity to learn a lot about my car and driving skills while running against a large ITC group. It was too bad I didnt discover my handling issues until sunday, or my car would have been a bit faster on saturday.

It&#39;s hard for the SCCA to be all things to all people. A few years ago, we ran the Grand Course, and everyone complined about the cost, or the fuel, or something. People got tired of the 3 day event, and stopped shoeing up, now it&#39;s a 2 day event and people complain that it&#39;s too much!

hoop

JimW337
05-22-2007, 07:05 AM
As a rookie driver who has never run VIR full, (only North and South) and who is still trying to get used to the traffic. I found the big run groups are great learning experience and the best seat in the house to see the race, especially from the back of the pack. :D

Here&#39;s a link to my Car Domain page where I have some video of Saturday&#39;s race.

View Video and Vote Here (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2570697)

While you&#39;re there vote 5 stars so I can get invited to VIR by Grass Roots Magazine.

It&#39;s been a blast to follow Hoop around the track, he has some good lines through traffic. It&#39;s been fun racing with him, I just hope I haven&#39;t spoiled any in class races. Maybe someday I&#39;ll learn to pedal faster! In the mean time I&#39;m having the time of my life.

JimW

seckerich
05-22-2007, 12:12 PM
Not to champion large fields, but, you guys obviously arent used to them. The first 3 years I raced, I predominatly ran the ECR&#39;s (with the Double SARRC/MARRS being the main exception from that routine), which routinely fielded 80+ cars on a 3.27 mile track at VIR. We even had 1 race where the stewards waived the field requirements and allowed 109 cars on the track at once (the end result was one of the cleanest races I have seen from behind the wheel)!

You complain about the mix of ITA, IT7, ITB, SPEC7 and ITC rides... throw in the ITS, SRF&#39;s and Spec Miatas, then you&#39;ll learn how to deal with large fields. These guys will pass you like a pack of dogs running around the heard!

From my cars position at the back of the grid (hey, it is a C car afterall) I have been fortunate to avoild these circumstances while having an excellent view. To me, most of the problems at VIR appear to involve the driver&#39;s that arent familiar/comfortable with the track layout.

At the back, the problem I run into most often comes from the cars that haven&#39;t run VIR enough. Usually they are intimidated by the flat or climbing esse&#39;s, or they trail brake all the way down through hogpen... only to be blindingly fast down the straights. Now to offer the benifit of the doubt, perhaps they are having handling issues and are holding me up 3-5 seconds per lap in the corners only to pull and pass me on the straights (my car lacks the proper final drive). This is an issue that I seldom run into in the ECR&#39;s.

That being said... I have enjoyed the SARRC/MARRS event over the pst 4 years. It has given me an opportunity to learn a lot about my car and driving skills while running against a large ITC group. It was too bad I didnt discover my handling issues until sunday, or my car would have been a bit faster on saturday.

It&#39;s hard for the SCCA to be all things to all people. A few years ago, we ran the Grand Course, and everyone complined about the cost, or the fuel, or something. People got tired of the 3 day event, and stopped shoeing up, now it&#39;s a 2 day event and people complain that it&#39;s too much!

hoop
[/b]

Just to be clear about something Hoop. A few years ago you ran the Grand course and it sucked. The part added to make it "grand" also made it impossible to safely pass a lapped car for most of the added section. Any lead from the rest of the track was lost immediately resulting in impatient (insert bumper) passes that were not good racing but happened out of frustration. The region listened to driver input and dropped the failed experiment.

The 3 day format that rquired us to be there Friday to Qualify and then sit on our butts for 3 days for less track time than a single SARRC was a crock. We get one qualifying session and a race for 3 days? Again the region listened to the drivers (insert CUSTOMER) and moved to 2 day format. Good move!! Not the track time I would like with no practice but I can live with it to have big fields and run VIR. The length of the track and time it takes to get sessions in and out makes the schedule tight.

This year we had some groups with 12 cars and others with 90+. Other regions run closed wheel in one group and VIR is definitely big enough to make it work. I hope the region again looks at those that are supporting their races and make the changes necessary to even out the groups. As a region you have a product to sell and you need to please the customers if you want them to continue to spend money with you. We bitch with money and I can find plenty of other regions to spend it with if I get grouped with production again.

Take it for what it is worth.

iambhooper
05-22-2007, 06:27 PM
Steve,
Yes the region did listen to the drivers, and went back to the full course... and it listened at they went from a 3 day to a 2 day event. However, there is a point at which you can only do so much to please everyone. Not that long ago you could have a group that was SM, ITA, SRX7 and another group that was SSC, SSB, ITB and ITC (mix n match however you want).

It is hard to spread the fields out when you have 400+- cars at an event. Yes, the wings n things group may only have 12-15 cars in it, but they paid there money just like everyone else and should get their track time.

There is no easy solution to large run groups. I think saturdays last race started around 5:30 or so, so it would be hard to squeeze an additional run group into that field. Perhaps, in the end, the 3 day event was the right choice. Maybe with a longer friday practice of 30 minutes or so, and a shorter qualifying on saturday and sunday, would allow for an additional run group.

I certainly agree that trafic was a problem this weekend (Jim&#39;s nice video can attest to that), but I don&#39;t see as much a function of too many cars as I do a function of people not familiar with the track&#39;s ideosyncrcy&#39;s (did i spell that big word right?).

hoop


Jim,

Thats a good looking twitchy Honda in front of your car ;) Nice video! I especially like the last lap... the only time the whole weekend I put the car off at Oak Tree, yet still manage to get around the Sciracco out of Hog Pen! :smilie_pokal:

I had the handling all screwed up and didn&#39;t get it properly sorted until sundays race. I would like to think my line was much more natural on Sunday, my times tend toprove it. It&#39;s all a learning experience. I need more track time... perhaps a test day is in my future this summer.

You and I have had some good runs together, basically at 3 different tracks! I can&#39;t remember, were we together on sunday?

Also, could you email me both of those videos?


Thanks!
hoop

mlytle
05-22-2007, 10:24 PM
Just to be clear about something Hoop. A few years ago you ran the Grand course and it sucked. The part added to make it "grand" also made it impossible to safely pass a lapped car for most of the added section. Any lead from the rest of the track was lost immediately resulting in impatient (insert bumper) passes that were not good racing but happened out of frustration. The region listened to driver input and dropped the failed experiment.

The 3 day format that rquired us to be there Friday to Qualify and then sit on our butts for 3 days for less track time than a single SARRC was a crock. We get one qualifying session and a race for 3 days? Again the region listened to the drivers (insert CUSTOMER) and moved to 2 day format. Good move!! Not the track time I would like with no practice but I can live with it to have big fields and run VIR. The length of the track and time it takes to get sessions in and out makes the schedule tight.

This year we had some groups with 12 cars and others with 90+. Other regions run closed wheel in one group and VIR is definitely big enough to make it work. I hope the region again looks at those that are supporting their races and make the changes necessary to even out the groups. As a region you have a product to sell and you need to please the customers if you want them to continue to spend money with you. We bitch with money and I can find plenty of other regions to spend it with if I get grouped with production again.

Take it for what it is worth.
[/b]

yes, if they had put all the low-subscription open wheel and sports racers/srf&#39;s in one group, it still would have been the smallest group and it would have freed up at least one or two run groups for the 90+ car run groups to spread out. and the speed difference in the open wheel group would still have been a lot smaller than the difference in group 7 (itr/its/efghp).

JimW337
05-23-2007, 12:33 PM
Jim,

Thats a good looking twitchy Honda in front of your car ;) Nice video! I especially like the last lap... the only time the whole weekend I put the car off at Oak Tree, yet still manage to get around the Sciracco out of Hog Pen! :smilie_pokal:

I had the handling all screwed up and didn&#39;t get it properly sorted until sundays race. I would like to think my line was much more natural on Sunday, my times tend toprove it. It&#39;s all a learning experience. I need more track time... perhaps a test day is in my future this summer.

You and I have had some good runs together, basically at 3 different tracks! I can&#39;t remember, were we together on sunday?

Also, could you email me both of those videos?
Thanks!
hoop
[/b]

Hoop,

I think the video is too big to email. I&#39;ve copied the whole VIR weekend from the VHS-C camcorder onto a DVD, I&#39;ll see if I can just copy the DVD and bring you the copy at the next monthly meeting.

Jim

Bugeater
05-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Hoop -

Some of us are used to big fields in the sense that we dont mind them, bur for the guys that may not, heres my thoughts (worth about as much as you could sell them for):
There is a significant difference between say an 80 car ITC field and say an 80 car SPO or fast IT field. You will never see 170 mph and "have to make a decision" in ITA/B/C etc. That obviously is the extreme example, but the average speed difference in the big bore group necessitates quicker responses on average. Going wheel to wheel at triple digits enters a psychological realm that you dont see at speeds under 100. I am not saying that the 80 car ITA/B/C fields are not taxing/requiring less skill/etc. Far from it. I am simply lending thoughts counter to the idea that "we arent used to large fields".

Now that being said and for the record - I dont think 40 is too big at all! Actually, I like a big field (like in qualifying or especially in test n tune) even with the SRX7&#39;s mixed in, cuz it makes for fun driving and hones your ability to gauge gaps, closing speeds and make good or bad passing decisions in all areas of the track. In the end, all good learning experiences. The video is fun to watch too :-)

Also, I am one of the rare birds in Big Bore that absolutely *loved* Grand East in 2005. I know I&#39;m weird like that. Why? Because I used to autocross and liked the tight, quick infield. I actually was able to catch and pass some of the higher HP and higher qualifiers in there. Personally I think some didnt like it because you basically had to be good on a fast and slow track. Its a mindset change requiring more thinking and patience as opposed to fast, flowing rhythm. Its a bummer we probably wont see it again at the double.

If I misinterpreted your post, well, heck. Ignore the crap I typed.

iambhooper
05-23-2007, 06:17 PM
Hoop -
If I misinterpreted your post, well, heck. Ignore the crap I typed.
[/b]


Nope I understand entirely. Being a former autocrosser, I too liked the Grand course for what it was... it actually opened up a few more pasing zones for us "momentum" class&#39;s.

BTW... the CRX nearly attains the top speed of 114 mph, so we aren&#39;t that slow :D

hoop

Joe-Racer
05-24-2007, 09:47 AM
There is a significant difference between say an 80 car ITC field and say an 80 car SPO or fast IT field. [/b]


No offense, but I disagree with that statement. The difference is only in the disparity of the field.

jjjanos
05-24-2007, 10:22 AM
Hoop... I was the Smurf Blue CRX that had a nice race with you on Saturday. Got some nice video of you needing to get on the brakes through the uphill esses because of an IT7. Got some great video of me nearly collecting your rear end about 1 second later. Stupid RX7!

Large fields - the 80 car field didn&#39;t bother me other than two times...

1. The pace lap - I don&#39;t like to criticize the vols, but the pace laps were way too fast. I darn near lost the car on cold tires at South Bend on Saturday because I had to go drive at 9/10ths to catch the field. I was sitting 61st of 89 cars. I caught the field at the point where I was at the right-hand turn-in for Roller Coaster. Gawd help the poor suckers who were further back than me.

2. The start - with that many cars, the guys in the back are assuming that the field is green by the time we are leaving Hogpen. I don&#39;t know whether it was a late green or something else, but I do know that back in row 32, I had to nail my brakes to avoid giving a colonoscopy to the RX7 in front of me and my video shows an accordian effect for at least 3 rows in front of me. I am pretty certain that some cars had to take to the dirt to avoid contact.

With that many cars, it was busy and a learning experience. I learned a great deal of race craft and next year, all of the "faster" cars that held me up through the esses and South Bend are going to see me blow past them in the run from South Bend to Oak Tree. Let&#39;s just say I might be a slow learner, but watching the game tapes showed me the error of my ways.

iambhooper
05-24-2007, 11:26 PM
Hoop... I was the Smurf Blue CRX that had a nice race with you on Saturday. Got some nice video of you needing to get on the brakes through the uphill esses because of an IT7. Got some great video of me nearly collecting your rear end about 1 second later. Stupid RX7![/b]

You know, I was a bit PO&#39;d at that Spec7... in our run group, there is little need to be hard on the brakes at 7,8,9,10, and 15. If you are using the brakes through here, it is costing serious time. That Mazda, and several other cars, hurt my lap times on saturday. It&#39;s easy to lose 4 seconds through there.



Large fields - the 80 car field didn&#39;t bother me other than two times...

1. The pace lap - I don&#39;t like to criticize the vols, but the pace laps were way too fast. I darn near lost the car on cold tires at South Bend on Saturday because I had to go drive at 9/10ths to catch the field. I was sitting 61st of 89 cars. I caught the field at the point where I was at the right-hand turn-in for Roller Coaster. Gawd help the poor suckers who were further back than me.

2. The start - with that many cars, the guys in the back are assuming that the field is green by the time we are leaving Hogpen. I don&#39;t know whether it was a late green or something else, but I do know that back in row 32, I had to nail my brakes to avoid giving a colonoscopy to the RX7 in front of me and my video shows an accordian effect for at least 3 rows in front of me. I am pretty certain that some cars had to take to the dirt to avoid contact. [/b]

I wont say much about the pace car... the drivers are friends of mine, and they are experieinced.

That being said, I never really got bunched up with the pack on saturday... not to mention some MARRS @$$#*!& in a SILVER FORD FIESTA decided to start passing people b4 the Green flag could have possibly even flown! I hope he got busted bad. And if he&#39;s on the forum, I HOPE YOU WERE BUSTED FOR THAT IDIOTIC STUPID MOVE YOU LOSER!!!! :018:

Yes, there were a few cars in the corn field at the start.



With that many cars, it was busy and a learning experience. I learned a great deal of race craft and next year, all of the "faster" cars that held me up through the esses and South Bend are going to see me blow past them in the run from South Bend to Oak Tree. Let&#39;s just say I might be a slow learner, but watching the game tapes showed me the error of my ways.
[/b]

Best of luck. Hope to see you back! You drove well both days.

hoop

Jim,

That will be fine with the DVD. I am out of town working that week, and if I can&#39;t get to the meeting, just give it to Ed. Let me know what I owe you for the disk.

Thanks!
hoop

RacerBowie
05-25-2007, 06:42 AM
I really don&#39;t think the pace laps were too fast. I was on the front row both days, and we spent the VAST majority of the lap at or around 40mph, definitely slowing to even less than that for a bit on the back straight. The pace car driver even warned us that he was going to slow there to let the field attempt to recover from the bottleneck at oak tree.

I just think there were too many people in the middle of the pack "warming their tires" and being jackasses that held you guys with the ITB and ITC cars that were in the back due to car and not due to sucking at driving! ...and believe me it is easy to tell the difference when coming up on lapped traffic!

JimW337
05-25-2007, 07:28 AM
Another perspective from the "back of the pack". I much prefered Saturday&#39;s start to Sunday&#39;s. Even though on Saturday everybody was strung out playing catch up, Sunday was close to a disaster. Bumper to bumper 5 cars wide, jumping on the braks, grabbing second gear and this was in the middle of the front straight! Then it got even worse at Oak Tree. The only difference, 3 cars wide and people punting each other off the track with waving yellow&#39;s, like you could pass anybody anyway.

In my noobie-rookie opinon, I think the problem was too may cars and to little patients. I&#39;ve never heard of a race won in the first lap, but I sure saw a lot of people loose their race in the first lap. That&#39;s OK, becasue evertime I saw someone off track, chaa-ching, I just moved up a position.

Jim

Knestis
05-25-2007, 09:49 AM
What Bowie said. The issue was that a LOT of people didn&#39;t get their own stuff together and get the heck in line. I was nearly last on the grid on Sat (number mix-up meant I wasn&#39;t on the grid sheet!) and a guy three rows in front of me was merrily weaving back and forth up the back straight (RX7) right up to the point where Cameron called GREEN GREEN GREEN on the radio...

...when I was braking for the top of Rollercoaster! I passed 8 cars or so before we even got to SF and actually saw the flag.

K

lateapex911
05-25-2007, 11:19 AM
Which speaks to the importance of having a radio and somebody to talk to you on it....

jjjanos
05-25-2007, 11:54 AM
I just think there were too many people in the middle of the pack "warming their tires" and being jackasses that held you guys with the ITB and ITC cars that were in the back due to car and not due to sucking at driving! ...and believe me it is easy to tell the difference when coming up on lapped traffic![/b]

I don&#39;t know if people were warming their tires or not. I know the couple of cars to my immediate front were not doing it. We came out of grid and on did nothing but play catch the field until Roller Coaster. Sunday was better as we caught the field climbing the rise on the back straight. The fun started later - when we hit the front straight.

I heard from spectators that on Sunday, the first couple of rows were almost at race speed trying to catch the pace car. I, of course, did not see it as I still was on grid.

RacerBowie
05-25-2007, 12:45 PM
I don&#39;t know if people were warming their tires or not. I know the couple of cars to my immediate front were not doing it. We came out of grid and on did nothing but play catch the field until Roller Coaster. Sunday was better as we caught the field climbing the rise on the back straight. The fun started later - when we hit the front straight.

I heard from spectators that on Sunday, the first couple of rows were almost at race speed trying to catch the pace car. I, of course, did not see it as I still was on grid.
[/b]

Definitely not. I started outside pole Sunday, and I was in 2nd gear the whole way down the hill and all the way until the flag waved. It was actually a pretty slow start. Maybe the second gear revs made it sound like we were trying to catch up?

I think there were just a LOT of cars, and it sounds like not everyone was on the same team there before the start.

jjjanos
05-25-2007, 03:06 PM
Definitely not. I started outside pole Sunday, and I was in 2nd gear the whole way down the hill and all the way until the flag waved. It was actually a pretty slow start. Maybe the second gear revs made it sound like we were trying to catch up?[/b]

I think this was in reference to when the cars initially left the grid and not later - i.e backstraight and on. I know the field had bunched there because back in the 30 rows, we had bunched by that point.


not to mention some MARRS @$$#*!& in a SILVER FORD FIESTA decided to start passing people b4 the Green flag could have possibly even flown! [/b]

I know who that was and I&#39;m going to follow the Thumper Father Rule.

Using the old - if the car in front of you is stopped, he is part of the incident rule... I wonder if someone could have made a legitimate case for just short cutting Oak Tree entirely on that first lap. :) "Hey, I saw the waving yellow and 70 feet of complete track blockage. I figured the only way through was to cut in front of the Tree...."

mlytle
05-25-2007, 03:21 PM
I think this was in reference to when the cars initially left the grid and not later - i.e backstraight and on. I know the field had bunched there because back in the 30 rows, we had bunched by that point.
I know who that was and I&#39;m going to follow the Thumper Father Rule.

Using the old - if the car in front of you is stopped, he is part of the incident rule... I wonder if someone could have made a legitimate case for just short cutting Oak Tree entirely on that first lap. :) "Hey, I saw the waving yellow and 70 feet of complete track blockage. I figured the only way through was to cut in front of the Tree...."
[/b]

didn&#39;t sunday&#39;s ita race winner exercise that rule in turn 1? short cut the entire 1/2 corner to pass for the lead? at least that is what i deduced from watching from nascar and listening to the incident description on the flag net.


in group seven start the front of the pack did have to move "quickly" to catch the pace car off the grid through turn 6. got some tire warming in. then from 7 to the green flag it was a slow parade.

Knestis
05-25-2007, 03:36 PM
>> Using the old - if the car in front of you is stopped, he is part of the incident rule...

You bet. I took to the inside grass in T1/T2 to avoid (among other things) a sideways RX7, and drove completely around to the chute before NASCAR. I don&#39;t think I gained any positions relative to the drivers who went around the outside of the schlmozzle but by the same token, I sure didn&#39;t LOSE any. :)

K

WRXRacer111
05-25-2007, 05:03 PM
didn&#39;t sunday&#39;s ita race winner exercise that rule in turn 1? short cut the entire 1/2 corner to pass for the lead?
[/b]

Nope. I have no idea how you&#39;d do that without 4-wheel-drive. There was a very unfortunate incident in turn 1 involving me and the other 2 cars battling for the lead that shoved my car 4 off on the inside of the turn into the dirt. That route was unavoidable and NOT intentional as there was the contact in that turn physically forced my car into that position. I happened to come out ahead which is why it looked like a "shortcut" for position from the worker bucket&#39;s viewpoint. They did not see contact on the left side of the car that forced me driver&#39;s right. The Chief Steward was marginally confused over that radio call as well...

Have a good weekend!
-Chris Perera
sunday&#39;s ITA race winner

mlytle
05-25-2007, 10:17 PM
Nope. I have no idea how you&#39;d do that without 4-wheel-drive. There was a very unfortunate incident in turn 1 involving me and the other 2 cars battling for the lead that shoved my car 4 off on the inside of the turn into the dirt. That route was unavoidable and NOT intentional as there was the contact in that turn physically forced my car into that position. I happened to come out ahead which is why it looked like a "shortcut" for position from the worker bucket&#39;s viewpoint. They did not see contact on the left side of the car that forced me driver&#39;s right. The Chief Steward was marginally confused over that radio call as well...

Have a good weekend!
-Chris Perera
sunday&#39;s ITA race winner
[/b]
ahhhhh! the rest of the story! :)

grjones1
05-28-2007, 01:28 PM
Hoop,
At leaast I think it is Hoop who was complaining.

I am the driver of ITC 22, and I remember the start quite well. We were gapped way back from the mid- pack as I recall mainly because at least some people in front of me failed to keep up when we left from the false grid and yes by the time we were at the end of the uphill esses, many of us were at 9/10s trying to catch the pack on the pace lap. Still there were those who were lollygagging.

If when we finally got to hogpen you had looked to your right, you would have seen a corner worker (sharp, heads-up individual whoever he was) giving us a green flag signal, i.e., he was moving his arm in a figure 8 motion to let us backmarkers know the green had been dropped. The race had begun. That&#39;s when I nailed it. We are not NASCAR! We do not have to wait until we cross start finish to begin racing - we race when the flag drops, regardless of where we are on the track. I did not jump the start; I paid attention to what was going on so I could gain as much as I could with what was given me.

Before you start throwing mud, make sure you know what your&#39;re talking about, and report it accurately, and no, the stewarts saw nothing wrong with my start, because there was nothing wriong with my start.

And I love the large groups - always somebody to race with even when you have half a transmission halfway through the race.

:P

iambhooper
05-28-2007, 06:14 PM
Hoop,
At leaast I think it is Hoop who was complaining.

I am the driver of ITC 22, and I remember the start quite well. We were gapped way back from the mid- pack as I recall mainly because at least some people in front of me failed to keep up when we left from the false grid and yes by the time we were at the end of the uphill esses, many of us were at 9/10s trying to catch the pack on the pace lap. Still there were those who were lollygagging.

If when we finally got to hogpen you had looked to your right, you would have seen a corner worker (sharp, heads-up individual whoever he was) giving us a green flag signal, i.e., he was moving his arm in a figure 8 motion to let us backmarkers know the green had been dropped. The race had begun. That&#39;s when I nailed it. We are not NASCAR! We do not have to wait until we cross start finish to begin racing - we race when the flag drops, regardless of where we are on the track. I did not jump the start; I paid attention to what was going on so I could gain as much as I could with what was given me.

Before you start throwing mud, make sure you know what your&#39;re talking about, and report it accurately, and no, the stewarts saw nothing wrong with my start, because there was nothing wriong with my start.

And I love the large groups - always somebody to race with even when you have half a transmission halfway through the race.

:P
[/b]

I don&#39;t remember which car 22 was, but I&#39;m going to assume you are the driver of the Fiesta. On Saturday&#39;s parade lap, you did not pass me at Hog Pen... you passed me on the back straight between South Pit out and Madison Avenue... lolly gagging or not... long b4 the green could have flown! So are you saying you had a radio and new byt the middle of the back straight that the green flag had flown?

hoop

Knestis
05-28-2007, 07:52 PM
FWIW, on Saturday when I started almost last, Cameron was on the radio and I got his GREEN GREEN GREEN signal somewhere up toward the end of the hill, about where Bitch breaks off to the right, I think. I started passing like mad.

K

grjones1
05-28-2007, 07:54 PM
If I passed you on the back straight it was because the guy in front of me in my line (on the left as I recall) passed you and I simply followed him as I am allowed to do. We stay in line; we do not have to remain right beside cars that are not in our line on the pace lap. (Cars constantly move up and down side by side on any pace lap.) In any case, I did not improve my position until after hogpen and after the green flag had dropped. If I had I&#39;m sure the stewards would have hauled me in. They called me up for a metal to metal in 1 during qualifying that didn&#39;t happen, and the standup guy I was supposed to have hit told them he had lost it all on his own and indeed I had not hit him. So I&#39;m sure they would not have overlooked a jumped start.

Besides that, if you did not have your foot down on the back straight for that start as far back from the pack as our group was you need to go back to school and learn how to start a race. Because you choose to remain a backmarker doesn&#39;t mean that the rest of us are not there to race. You would have deserved to have been passed if the rules would allow it.

I know you were car 74. What color is your car?

G. Robert Jones Silver Fiesta # 22

grjones1
05-28-2007, 08:38 PM
One more minor point. In reviewing the lap charts I find I was gridded in front of you to begin with. What are you complaining about?

iambhooper
05-28-2007, 09:26 PM
If I passed you on the back straight it was because the guy in front of me in my line (on the left as I recall) passed you and I simply followed him as I am allowed to do. We stay in line; we do not have to remain right beside cars that are not in our line on the pace lap. (Cars constantly move up and down side by side on any pace lap.) In any case, I did not improve my position until after hogpen and after the green flag had dropped. If I had I&#39;m sure the stewards would have hauled me in. They called me up for a metal to metal in 1 during qualifying that didn&#39;t happen, and the standup guy I was supposed to have hit told them he had lost it all on his own and indeed I had not hit him. So I&#39;m sure they would not have overlooked a jumped start.

Besides that, if you did not have your foot down on the back straight for that start as far back from the pack as our group was you need to go back to school and learn how to start a race. Because you choose to remain a backmarker doesn&#39;t mean that the rest of us are not there to race. You would have deserved to have been passed if the rules would allow it.

I know you were car 74. What color is your car?

G. Robert Jones Silver Fiesta # 22
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My car is White on Black with Red Stripes... and believe me, I was keeping up with the cars in front of me and not lagging. Two wins in 3 races hardly makes a backmarker!

iambhooper
05-28-2007, 09:37 PM
One more minor point. In reviewing the lap charts I find I was gridded in front of you to begin with. What are you complaining about?
[/b]

If you were ahead of me on the grid, then what were you doing passing me on the formation lap? Check the rules buddy:

6.2.2. SCCA Standard Start (Rolling Start)

The following rolling start technique shall be known as the SCCA Standard Start and shall be utilized at all SCCA races, unless an alternate procedure has been approved by the Divisional Executive Steward and is set out in the Supplementary Regulations for the event.

J. A car may not improve its position in the field once it comes under the Starter’s orders, regardless of circumstances.

1. A car that fails to start with the pack or falls out of position during a pace lap relinquishes its grid position. It may rejoin the field only at the rear of the pack.

2. A car that improves its position is guilty of a false start and may be penalized. A false start shall occur when a driver under the Starter’s orders moves forward from his or her prescribed position before the start. In the case of a rolling start, this movement shall refer to improving the driver’s position in relation to the moving field by moving out of line or passing prior to the waving of the green flag.

3. If the Chief Steward determines that a false start has occurred, and the race has been started, that driver or drivers may be black-flagged and held in the pits or at the start line for a period of up to one minute. Other penalties may also be imposed. (See 7., Penalties)

Now, if the workers failed to call that in and the stewards failed to penalize you for that, then you got lucky this time.... Your trick worked, congratulations.

grjones1
05-29-2007, 12:04 AM
This is ridiculous. I&#39;m gridded ahead of you on the false grid and you are upset because I passed you on the pace lap because my line (the left line) passes your line because you guys are not keeping up with the pack) and I&#39;m guilty of jumping the start. Bull. Everyone stays an the backend of the car in front of him in his line before the flag starts regardless of what the line beside him is doing. If your line is not up, that&#39;s your problem.

As a matter of fact I distinctly remember going by you again at Hog Pen. So you must have caught back up before I accelerated for the start when I saw the flagger indicate we had a start.

I don&#39;t care how many races you&#39;ve won (I&#39;ve won a few myself) you have no right accusing me of jumping and calling me a loser when it just didn&#39;t happen. And believe me I didn&#39;t have to jump any start to beat you on Saturday. I lost 2nd and 3rd gears by lap 5 and still beat your best time by half a second and finished a car ahead of you. Who are you trying to kid. I guess Janoska jumped you on the start too, he finished in front of you also.

My apologies to the site participants, but this kind of character assasination can&#39;t go unchallenged.

grjones1
05-29-2007, 12:18 AM
This is ridiculous. I&#39;m gridded ahead of you on the false grid and you are upset because I passed you on the pace lap because my line (the left line) passes your line because you guys are not keeping up with the pack) and I&#39;m guilty of jumping the start. Bull. Everyone stays an the backend of the car in front of him in his line before the flag starts regardless of what the line beside him is doing. If your line is not up, that&#39;s your problem.

As a matter of fact I distinctly remember going by you again at Hog Pen. So you must have caught back up before I accelerated for the start when I saw the flagger indicate we had a start.

I don&#39;t care how many races you&#39;ve won (I&#39;ve won a few myself) you have no right accusing me of jumping and calling me a loser when it just didn&#39;t happen. And believe me I didn&#39;t have to jump any start to beat you on Saturday. I lost 2nd and 3rd gears by lap 5 and still beat your best time by half a second and finished a car ahead of you. Who are you trying to kid. I guess Janoska jumped you on the start too, he finished in front of you also.

My apologies to the site participants, but this kind of character assasination can&#39;t go unchallenged.

iambhooper
05-29-2007, 06:31 AM
I&#39;ll stick by my position on where you passed me. And as the rules read, it doesn&#39;t matter if you were gridded ahead of me, you are not allowed to regain position on the pace lap. I have no recollection of you anywhere near me at hogpen, and if you passed me there under green flag conditions, I&#39;m fine with that.

Jeff was fine. As for you... I don&#39;t have any argument with you other than you passing on the back straight on the pace lap.

My car can be fast. We had a handling issue on Saturday (almost had it back to normal on sunday) that made the car twitchy and kept us out of the 2:33&#39;s and 34&#39;s. That was dissapointinig.

Anyway, I&#39;ve said my piece. Appologies here. Admin. please close this thread. The issue needs to be put to sleep.

hoop

grjones1
05-29-2007, 09:54 AM
I respect your right to your opinion, flawed as it might be. But one last thought: If I am gridded ahead of you (and the lap chart indicates such) and I am put in a position to have to "regain my position" for the start (which according to you I&#39;m not allowed to do) then you must have passed me on the pace lap at some point in which case you are as guilty as I in "jumping the start."

The thing is moot. We all know that during a pace lap the left and right lines shift up and down until we form up even before the flag. I think Saturday we just didn&#39;t get a chance to keep our lines together and there was no attempt by anyone to "jump." At least I know I had no desire to "trick" anybody: I just wanted to get to the race.

I look forward to racing you again when both our cars are healthy.
Admin , thanks for your indulgence.

G. Robert Jones