In Car Video - DVD, SD or Hard Drive?

[Newbie]

I'm thinking of getting a digital camera so I can watch my driving. I may even get a traqmate with the ability to put the telemetry on the bottom of the screen.

Believe it or not, the kids at Circut City/Best Buy, etc. have no idea on what works best with all of the vibration. SD card, Hard Drive, Digital tape or DVD writer. There are also hybrids that record to either a DVD (great for non racing use) or the SD card slot.

There are a few attractively priced cameras ($350 range) that have "steady Shot" and record to DVD or SD. The digital tape only allows for 60 minutes, but a big SD card can do 6+ hours.

Anybody using anything they would recommend? Anybody have one hooked up through a traqmate?

Thanks

Steve

[tcpip]

I'd definitely avoid anything with an optical disc (ie DVD). The vibration from the car is going to cause problems, just like in-car CD players use to have. Most of the DV tape footage from my friend had no problems. Something with no moving parts (flash memory) is obviously the best, but in most cases the recording quality isn't as good. The other part to avoiding camera shake is to use a remote lipstick camera. Smaller, easier to secure, so it shouldn't bounce nearly as much as a full camera itself.

[924Guy]

+2 on the lipstick camera (I'm allowed to, as I have 2!) and also on the flash memory - seems quite durable so far. I have two non-videocamera flash memory recorders, they are both working great. As noted the resolution is a limitation; then again, I never watch my video on a TV, only on a computer or over the net, so it's quite fine for that, and download is a breeze! I've got video available on laptop right after the race for review, along with my data... :D

[Gary L]

Vaughn - I've seen some of your video, and it certainly meets my criteria. I'm sure you've done it before, but could you provide some details? Camera/recorder types and brands, retail sources, etc? Thanks!

[924Guy]

I'll give a quick overview here; there's a long detailed thread (titled "Cheap bullet-cam/DVR setup") in the Bargain Shopper forum that hashes out all the gory details including links to manufacturers, except maybe Neuros Technology:
http://www.neurosaudio.com/

Bullet cameras - they're everywhere and pretty cheap. I have two Sonys, but others will work fine; look for lines of resolution, min illumination, I think that's about the major stuff.

Microphones - you'll need 'em. I'm using some that are too sensitive and saturate very easily; we've taped over them to muffle and make them half-functional. While there's not much to record, don't overlook this step - racing video is VERY boring without sound!!! Gotta have engine noise!

There are of course miscellaneous bits of wiring and adapters left out here - power to cameras, etc. I prefer to wire everything in for power - no worries about dead batteries mid-race.

All components are mounted with velcro - they're all light enough to be safe, no worries (and yes, I have crashed with such, nothing came loose; even the roof cameras, velcroed on, recorded PERFECT images throughout the crash).

I have two DVRs (digital video recorder). One is an obsolete (can't buy it anymore except used on eBay) Audiovox PVR1000; there's a Mustek model which is identical except case size and sometimes price. The other is a Neuros Recorder 2. Advantages and disadvantages are as follows:

Advantages:
PVR1000:
Built-in video screen - needed for aiming cameras
Neuros:
VERY light and small - size of a cigarette case
remote control, with lights to indicate record active
double the resolution of the PVR1000 (640x480)
Uses more memory card formats than the PVR 1000
More options to config for recording.
Better long-term support from manufacturer, forums, etc.
Has auto-record on video signal detect - but apparently this isn't quite working as intended right now.

Disadvantages:
PVR1000:
built-in battery; can't seem to get line-in power to work, and sometimes lose battery mid-race leading to a rather short video. As a result, I use this one for my rear camera; usually the start has the most exciting action behind
resolution is low - 320x240 - though this is masked quite a bit by the video format - image quality appears the same as the Neuros
starting recording requires multiple menu selections, no remote. Annoying to have to do on-grid.
weight - it's a little heavier due to the battery and screen - though still way lighter than any other
Memory card size may be limited
Uses only CF cards.
Neuros:
MAJOR: record MUST be stopped before powering down, or NO video will be saved. Can be an issue when it's wired on the kill switch, as mine is. The PVR 1000 will save whatever it has when the battery dies.
No video display - can't aim cameras
Power light only indicates power available, not system on (minor item)
Memory card size may be limited to 2 or 4 Gb (SW upgrades may be on the way)

What would I do different this time? Well, it would be nice to have a split-screen unit like the Chase Cam unit - though I think I'd want a fairly high-res recorder to work it. If nothing else, it might be fun to splice in the cockpit/driver image. So a split-view unit with 3 inputs would be ideal.

I LOVE the flash memory storage - makes download a breeze, immediately after race.

Some kind of working portable video display is a must, for checking camera aim at the track. Since mine are velcroed on, I never LEAVE them on the car, only install when I get there, and check each AM.

[CaptainWho]

Lipstick cam and solid state memory recording. Either built-in with downloading or, preferably, SD or CF cards. CF seems more mechanically resilient except for the contacts, and it's often cheaper per byte than SD.

Avoid hard drive and CD writing gear like the plague. For one thing, the vibrations will kill that sort of equipment quickly. For another, even when they're working, hard bumps like going hard over the rumbles will make most of them skip and jump and hiccup. It's amazing how many G's even a "small" bump will generate due to the very short duration of the impact.

[Gary L]

Vaughn - Thanks for the summary, this helps tremendously.

[bldn10]

This is getting OT but maybe you guys won't flame me like the video-nerds will on a video forum. I bought a digicam a couple of years ago but just recently got a new PC w/ DVD burner and enough memory to capture and edit video. For years I would take my VHS in-car footage and "edit" the highlights onto a VHS tape that would serve as an archive by year. I.e. after each event I would add to the running master tape. Worked fine. Do I understand that that is not possible w/ DVD? I.e. I have to finalize the DVD after burning and cannot simply append new footage onto it w/o losing existing footage? Can you do it w/ DVD RW?

[cherokee]

I just finished installing 30+ digital video cameras, they are in patrol cars but some things will apply.

I did a LOT of research before buying the systems that I had installed. Get something with 0 moving parts. That will give you failure no doubt about it. Even in tape systems with the motors and such they will fail.

My stuff gets used 12hrs a day 5+ days a week. The things in our race cars will not get used half as much, but when my existing system goes down I am going to do an all digital recorder, no moving parts.

[Z3_GoCar]

My personal experience.... Avoid the hard drive camera, I'd hit a pebble or rev through a certain rpm and the camera would shut off. If you're going for a bargin camera the mini-DV tapes seem to be solid, but I understand they'll wear out after a couple of seasons. After my fiasco with the hard drive Sony, I discovered the Samsung Sports Camcorder. It came with an bullet cam that's got a wide angle lens and has worked great so far.

This brings up a factor that's not often mentioned is you'll want some form of wide angle lens to capture as much of the front window as possible. The Samsung isn't the least expensive camera, but as my only option was to trade the Sony I'd bought.

I've mounted the recorder in a styrofoam shell to keep the vibrations from killing it too quickly. The sound on the bullet cam tends to get over saturated, so I need to place some accoustic foam over it.

James

[tcpip]

Bill,
You can continue to write to CD/DVD's if you leave the session open. You won't be able to view the disc on another computer until then, but you can still write to it until it's done. Now, you can't make DVD's this way, because I don't think you can leave the session open on anything other than a data disc. One suggestion is to add data to a disc image as you need. Then once you have 4 GB, burn the disc. WindowsXP has that option somehow. Just don't ask me how you set that up.

[gsbaker]

Can you do it w/ DVD RW?[/b]
Yes. I record a TV program every night onto the same DVD RW--until it's full, of course.

[Newbie]

Thanks for your response. What I should have done was wait for the traqmate version of chase cam to come out. It integrates the video and traqmate data as it records. It was due to come out April 2.

As luck would have it, I ended up getting a pretty decent order last Monday, it was going into the Nuke plant in Monticello, MN. I was already half way there, but I figured I should probably get some video footage inside a nuclear power plant! Expense account!!! ;)

On the way up I stopped at a Best Buy and bought a cam corder that has an internal hard drive and an SD card slot. It has the 16:9 picture size and a bunch of fancy stuff I will never use, but it has very few buttons so I figure it is the best one for me. The HD does not move while recording to the SD card, so I should be OK. It is compatible with the new high capacity SD cards, so I bought a 4 gig card too. I figured the $114 for the 4 year extended warranty was a bargain, so I got that (covers everything except dropping it into water).

I could not justify buying the roll bar mount on expense account, so that's $86 out of my 2007 racing budget.

It's not what I planned on getting, but I'll let you know how it works.

Steve