Hondata for 89-91 CRX/Civic?

[Limey]

I was browsing through GRM or maybe it was Sportscar and noticed a 91 CRX for sale that had Hondata ECU. I looked up Hondata website and didn't see any application for this car. Did I miss something? Also, does Hondata fit into stock ECU housing anyway?? Just curious on legality of this.

Thanks,

Mark

[R2 Racing]

Most likely the car you saw was converted from OBD-0 to OBD-1. I do not believe that Hondata makes anything that will work directly with a OBD-0 car. So typically those cars convert to OBD-1 (which isn't that tough) so they can use the Hondata. However, for an IT car, it wouldn't be legal to do that. To answer your second question, Hondata's S100 system fits inside the stock box and is perfectly legal for IT (for OBD-1 Honda's).

This is all "I think" since I don't actually use Hondata, so maybe someone else can verify if this is correct.

[zracre]

I use the S300 and it fits...I am not sure how you would legally be able to change an OBD0 to OBD1 without major harness mods...maybe I am wrong. If you could it would be a great setup! Call Hondata.

[Limey]

Well it didn't go into details in the ad, and I was too questioning the legality - the seller claimed to have set 2 track records in first year of racing....

anyway, thanks for the info. so basically, for the civic/crx platform there are limited options....reflash? Custom chip?

I see you guys have early integras - I just bought one, it will be a race car later this year but only after I finish the rebuild my wrecked SM and get the engine back in my ITA Civic. Both will be up for sale soon. Then I will be concentrating on the integra - I may need to pick your grey matter on a few things regarding the 'teg.......

Cheers, Mark

[R2 Racing]

Evan - I forgot that the S300 would be legal on OBD-1 IT Honda's too. Much like the S100 in fitment but with the capability of a S200, and then some. Cool product. Also, converting those early Honda's from OBD-0 to OBD-1 really isn't that hard at all. Several of my friends have done it on their street cars (but it's still illegal in IT racing).

Mark - I'd say contact the guy selling the car and ask him which Hondata he's using. The worst he could do is blow you off. Also, custom chipping is an option on all Honda's (or really any car, I imagine), but you just need to know the tuning softwares available, know what to do with it, or know a shop/tuner who does. Personally, I use custom tunes on personally burned chips for my Integra. What year Integra did you buy? The '90-91's are OBD-0 and the '92-93's are OBD-1.

[Domino]

I saw the same add. The only way to legally integrate Hondata into the CRX is to convert to OBD1 and it requires an OBD0 to OBDI harness and an Integra OBD I distributor and crank angle sensor which is obviously illegal.

The other way to go with OBD0,I,II is to the DIY route. I've been working with this for a while. The learning curve is steep though. www.pgmfi.org

[bamfp]

Hondata use to sell an OBD0 computer. They quit about 2 years ago. I had one in my GP CRX before I switched to OBD1. I sold the computer to Sage Marie who at the time had an 88 CRX.

[zracre]

the OBD-0 to OBD-1 conversion is legal on the teg but not the CRX as the Teg is 90-93...both types on the same spec line so it is part of the update/backdate thingy. I am sure someone makes stuff for the car...there are far too many smokin fast CRX's for there not to be... I would ask some on this forum or RR-AX...

[Limey]

Kevin, I bought a clean 91, with a trashed motor (hydrolocked). It will be on the back burner for the moment, but want to start development soon.

Evan, as you mentioned, the update/backdate rule for obd0 to obd1 - would I need to get a complete motor/ecu from a later model car or just the pieces needed for conversion? Need to reread that section as I remember it saying something about if you do this it must be the "complete assembly".......??

Cheers, Mark

[zracre]

I was lucky as my car is a 92...I would think change the harness as the engines are pretty much the same...I have not flowed any heads but maybe the later ones are better? You could just get a complete engine trans harness from a 92-93 and change it as an assy I would think.

[R2 Racing]

*I think* it involves getting an OBD-1 ECU, engine harness, and distributor. *I think* that's all you'd need on an Integra, but I'm not positive. Mine is a '92 too, so I didn't have to deal with that.

[Limey]

Thanks for the info. guys, I will look into it further and weigh it up against just getting hold of a 92 or 93 car.

Apart from the ability to tune the OBD1 cars, and I assume extract a few more ponies over the early car, are there any other disdvantages/advantages of the 90-91 vs. the 92-93 ? I see that the later models had vented front discs, sorry rotors ;-) but that still would be on the update/backdate thingy, so no disadvantage there. Anything else I need to consider??

Do you guys ever get to VIR/CMP/RR??

Cheers, Mark

[zracre]

There is no dis advantage for the early cars other than having to update/backdate a few things...I like the later bumper as I do not run brake ducts and have never had a problem with overheated brakes even at Sebring short...I am undefeated at Roebling...(I only raced once and won the SIC) :smilie_pokal:

[raffaelli]

I was looking at Hondata's site. The CRx does need an OBD1 conversion.
http://www.hondata.com/vehicles.html

[racerman50]

Hey Mark,
Come up to VIR next weekend (for that "other Club") and show me how to drive a CRX. :rolleyes:
Crashed Miata? Blown Honda? I leave the area for a couple of years and look what you do! :bash_1_:
Mike Keena-Levin ( Charlotte/Chapel-Hill) is a 'puter tune master. Talk to him. He's resurrecting "Ole Yaller" - scary, but true - so we're coming to get it and bring 'er back West with the plan of getting to a certain Championship this fall.

Just happened to be trolling here and saw your post.
Ping me mate.
David

[silverkorn]

older versions of Hondata worked with OBD-0 honda motors, they were classified in stages and before the whole s100 systems. You might be able to find someone selling those old boxes on ebay or other honda forums, but dont look towards Hondata for support.

The other alternative to look at is what Domino suggested, and go the DIY route. You can buy a pre-converted ECU from people on the net and then all you need is the correct wiring to connect to your laptop and a wideband O2 sensor and your ready for some custom tuning. The software i would suggest that you look into is TurboEdit, www.turboedit.org. its a completely free software and includes some base rom for easy tuning.

[CRXfanatic]

I'm not sure how this fits into the rules, but I thought this might help...

http://www.boomslang.us/obd0to1.htm

http://www.boomslang.us/obd0_1.pdf

[Zephyr]

zracre is going the right direction. TurboEdit is quite nice and easy to use with a wide band o2. I'm using a 91 Si ECU in my H5 car currently and using TurboEdit to create and modify my maps. Since it is in an 85 Si I had to work on the map quite a lot before I got a good base. From there it was great. With your Si you can plug the stock map in and work from that right away.

Zephyr

[MarkosMotorsports]

I saw the same add in SportsCar... red CRX built by OPM. I remeber seeing this car as a multi-month magazine article when it was being built. I emailed Hondata regarding this and they told me it would not be possible without changing to OBDI. So I don't know how OPM did it legally, would love to know if someone from there shop is on this board!



older versions of Hondata worked with OBD-0 honda motors, they were classified in stages and before the whole s100 systems. You might be able to find someone selling those old boxes on ebay or other honda forums, but dont look towards Hondata for support.

The other alternative to look at is what Domino suggested, and go the DIY route. You can buy a pre-converted ECU from people on the net and then all you need is the correct wiring to connect to your laptop and a wideband O2 sensor and your ready for some custom tuning. The software i would suggest that you look into is TurboEdit, www.turboedit.org. its a completely free software and includes some base rom for easy tuning.
[/b]


I found this on the web, but I ain't got a lot of smarts on ECU's ... anybody know anything about this company http://www.coe.uncc.edu/~mdkeena/ecu/

[Limey]

I know the chap that runs it - Mike Keena....he knows muchos about tuning Hondas. I actually didn't realise he did this until racerman50 told me in an earlier post. Sent Mike an email, hoping to hear soon. Will post results.

Cheers, Mark

[silverkorn]

I found this on the web, but I ain't got a lot of smarts on ECU's ... anybody know anything about this company http://www.coe.uncc.edu/~mdkeena/ecu/
[/b]

check this forum for people selling the modified ECU's:
http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewforum.php?f=3

i never heard of that person but modifing the ECU to allow for chip swapping and datalogging is fairly easy




I know the chap that runs it - Mike Keena....he knows muchos about tuning Hondas. I actually didn't realise he did this until racerman50 told me in an earlier post. Sent Mike an email, hoping to hear soon. Will post results.
[/b]

The only way you could get the Hondata system to work on a OBD-0 CRX is by replacing the stock PM6 ecu with a PR3 or PW0 ecu. The PR3 and PW0 came from the JDM versions of the CRX that came with the B16A engine. The only differences between the two engines would be the VTEC module and the additional camshaft. It is possible to run the D16A6 off the PR3/PW0 ECU but you have to turn off the VTEC, turn off the knock sensor, and mofiy the timing and fuel curves, which one would do to tune the car anway. I dont know how legal this would be since your replacing the ECU with a JDM version, but its not any benefit then to programming using the stock PM6.

[MarkosMotorsports]

check this forum for people selling the modified ECU's:
http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewforum.php?f=3

i never heard of that person but modifing the ECU to allow for chip swapping and datalogging is fairly easy
The only way you could get the Hondata system to work on a OBD-0 CRX is by replacing the stock PM6 ecu with a PR3 or PW0 ecu. The PR3 and PW0 came from the JDM versions of the CRX that came with the B16A engine. The only differences between the two engines would be the VTEC module and the additional camshaft. It is possible to run the D16A6 off the PR3/PW0 ECU but you have to turn off the VTEC, turn off the knock sensor, and mofiy the timing and fuel curves, which one would do to tune the car anway. I dont know how legal this would be since your replacing the ECU with a JDM version, but its not any benefit then to programming using the stock PM6.
[/b]


Once you change the ECU to the JDM type you throw being legal right out of the window! I haven't kept up on the issue of ECU's on this forum. Are the powers to be close to a decision on this issue. I'm not about to go spend money without a solid ruling from them. Tell me if I got this figured out right... if they ruled that any ECU and harness may be used, us OBD0 guys are still out of luck because of our dizzy... correct??

[silverkorn]

Yes, you would need to swap out the dizzy for an OBD1 model. I personally dont see any real benefit if they do rule the ability to swap ecu's and/or harnesses for any or all OBD0 honda/acura. The ability to tune the ECU is already there and adding anything else isnt going to get you much more since your still working with a stock cam(s).

[reddog_es22]

Well it didn't go into details in the ad, and I was too questioning the legality - the seller claimed to have set 2 track records in first year of racing....

anyway, thanks for the info. so basically, for the civic/crx platform there are limited options....reflash? Custom chip?

I see you guys have early integras - I just bought one, it will be a race car later this year but only after I finish the rebuild my wrecked SM and get the engine back in my ITA Civic. Both will be up for sale soon. Then I will be concentrating on the integra - I may need to pick your grey matter on a few things regarding the 'teg.......

Cheers, Mark
[/b]

I'm just an autocrosser with an interest in IT so I apologize in advance for any wrong assumptions. Sounds like IT is similar to the Street Touring autox classes, ie. any computer that will fit in the stock box. If that is the correct a good choice might be http://www.zdyne.com/ . They originally went for around $1000 but the price is down to $600 new, and they pop up from time to time on forums as low as $300. Just a thought.

[spnkzss]

Is there anyone out there that can do anything with the 88-91 1.5L DPFI Civic? I'm not looking for much, just a rev limiter extension.

[Domino]

Is there anyone out there that can do anything with the 88-91 1.5L DPFI Civic? I'm not looking for much, just a rev limiter extension.
[/b]


You can chip a PM5. It's DIY venture though. Take a look at the link below regarding the DPFI ECU. PGMFI.org is the greatest source of info on Honda ECUs and all the steps necessary to mod them.

http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/PM5

[Xian]

I saw the same add in SportsCar... red CRX built by OPM. I remeber seeing this car as a multi-month magazine article when it was being built. I emailed Hondata regarding this and they told me it would not be possible without changing to OBDI. So I don't know how OPM did it legally, would love to know if someone from there shop is on this board!
[/b]
I think this was already answered but it was done legally via a no longer available Hondata. I talked with Fowler at length about this option for my car vs. Zdyne. Ultimately neither option is ideal (the Hondata is no longer supported or sold so if it breaks you're SOL and the Zdyne loses RPM resolution at RPM's increase and isn't as "good" for tuning as the previous Hondata)

Christian

[Limey]

OK, thanks for clearing that one up Christian.

So which route did you decide to take?

Cheers, Mark

[Xian]

OK, thanks for clearing that one up Christian.[/b]

Glad to :D




So which route did you decide to take?

Cheers, Mark
[/b]

Wellllll... after long and hard thought I decided on neither. I also looked into some of the DIY options and passed on them too. At this point for this car, I'm not sold on an ECU being on the right side of the dollars:power ratio. For my instance I was looking at maybe a 2 or 3whp improvement for something on the order of a $1000 investment (including tuning). B/C of this I've decided to wait and see which way the ECU rule goes and then revisit the question... YMMV

Christian, who thinks $1000 in data aquisition would probably end up yielding faster lap times than an ECU...

[Zahniser1970]

Like Christian, we have our cars prepped by OPM and when we went with the ECU, we found out that the Hondata was no longer available so we did go with the ZDyne. We gained maybe 2hp with it.